Who is in here with me?

[jb]

Well said, Ken.

rivardco, (why,,, when I type that do I get the mental image of an Aardvark?)

I offer the following challenge for the newbies who won't take our word for it, go to: http://www.russianwomenabroad.com/Index_en.php
and ask the Russian Women how they feel about this.  This forum has an English section and most of the ladies there are married to AM and speak English quite well.

You are accepting the words of one RW as gospel, I believe you need more than one opinion in something so weighty.

[Michelangelo]

Olga's strategy is one I will certainly adopt!

Bad idea, Rivardco...  From a guy who has been there and done that, I can tell you that her advice is very flawed.

You HAVE to focus on one area and go there and stay there as long as you can.  Jumping around a country is a waste of time...time you should be meeting a variety of girls and getting to know them.

[ConnerVT]

I offer the following challenge for the newbies who won't take our word for it, go to:

Now, I have this image of tying a pork chop around someone's neck, and tossing him into a pack of wolves.    

[KenC]

Conner,
TFF!!  Or how about opening a vein and pushing him into a shark tank?
KenC

[jb]

LOL, Conner,

Actually no,  I reviewed that forum for quite awile back when I was starting out on this endeavor.  I received quite a few very insightful comments from the ladies there and it helped me to form a more clear understanding of what my soon to be wife might be thinking and what she would be facing once she got here.

There are some unhappy women there, but mostly they confine their complaints to the all Russian language section, which is not a bother to the generic questions a man might ask on the English side.  However, he should be prepared for some very blunt and straight forward answers to his questions.  In fact, it might be a wake up call about the true personalities of RW for the newbie thinking about pursuing a Russian woman for marriage.  They are not all sweetness and light.

[groovlstk]

Probably all strategies work!

man-o-manechevitz. Just the opposite is true. There are an infinite number of ways to screw this up to and get screwed yourself (and not in the good way). There are striking similiarities in the approaches and methods employed by the guys here who've been married a few years or more.

I can not believe that if I took a long walk in any crowded  city, I would not have the opportunity to meet many women. Really don't need rocket science to figure that out - it is just the birds and the bees.

Do you speak Russian? 

[Bruce]

Tim, "even a broken clock is right twice each day."  By Olga's own admission she got four guys to meet her after spending who knows how long and how many letters later after first letter contact only to know that within a very short time period that they were not Mr. right.  How did she know?  Duh, they actually met and interacted together.  By the way, think of how those four guys felt, especially if they went all the way to Ukraine on a WOVO.  By the way, if you think you'll get it right on the fifth WOVO like Olga did, I seriously doubt it.  Been there done that, luckily with a backup plan on that trip, and read so many failed trip reports of guys who tried a WOVO that I just laugh when guys say they will only do a WOVO.  Occasionally a guy does meet a girl with a WOVO, but it is usually the guys first trip, he usually is desperate and IMHO those guys do not have their heads screwed on, much less screwed on straight to start with - with an occassional exception to my experience.

Additionally, things have changed a lot since the old letter writing days.  You just can not trust the entity you are corresponding with until you show up.  Like Ken C eloquently said above, it could be the agency, it could be a friend, it could be fat Yuri or it could be the girl you think you are corresponding with.  Does it really matter anyway?  Once you show up and meet in person you start a whole new game.  Why be in the letter writing game to start with?  Beats the heck out of me.  Its just a way for agencies and translators to make a lot of money off guys before they go over in many cases and is a way for a guy to more importantly waste his time in almost all cases.  You say you are different.  So you think you are lucky Ricky Ricardo.  Whew, if I were you I would just use your real name  .

[Michelangelo]

I agree with Bruce, Rivardco.

Things have changed, and I'm convinced of two things now.

1) Don't spent weeks or months writing and getting to know a girl before meeting her.  The girl you write is likely not the girl you know by email.  It might be a scam, or it might be that you just don't have chemistry in real life.

2)  Get on the plane quickly and go meet her.  4 or 5 letters are enough.  And when I say "her," you better have 6-10 other girls who know you are coming that will meet you.

I think the best strategy is to get to the FSU, meet a number of girls, and then plan a second trip to really get to know the one girl you have chemistry with.  And BTW--on some trips even meeting 10 girls you will not find the right one for you.

Look at it this way. How many girls do you know at home?  Are you in love with one of them?  No.

It's the same, even harder, in the FSU.  You have to meet and interact with a lot of girls before you hit on the best one for you.

Sure, you might get "lucky."  But the odds are very long on that, Riv.  So plan on going to one city and meeting lots of girls.  That will give you the best opportunity for success.

[IAmZon]

Hey jb - nice to know ya a little more personally.

My very light remark - don't believe it rose to the standard of a lecture - was for Olga's sake, certainly, not my own.

I am clear minded and rarely piss anyone off.  At the same time, I am almost impossible to offend.  I offer you, and others here my friendship.

It would not be correct for you to perceive anything other than appreciation from me.  I am not opinionated. I am a person who knows what he knows, and knows what he does not know.  On this subject, I am a beginner.  You will see my behaviour as that of a student.

My business is marketing.  The number one rule is to test and measure the response.  I think this East / West thing is GREAT.  It is like speed dating on steroids.  So, I am taking ALL advise very seriously.

Give me a couple of months.  I will begin to give information rather than take it.

[jb]

Hey jb - nice to know ya a little more personally.

You don't know me at all.  I will tell you that I've been around long enough to see about a zillion newbies come into this game with those same preconceived ideas, refuse to consider that the fellows who have been there before might have learned a thing or three, and then they proceed to fall flat on their face.  These crash and burn stories are far more plentiful than the successes.

Now I'll tell you a little more, I don't read or respond to OlgaS or her husband, DougS, any longer.   In fact, I have them on my "ignore" list.  I was only made aware of the advice they were dispensing when I got a heads up by PM.  If you listen only to the strategy outlined by OlgaS you will have missed out on the best part of the board.  That's why I challenged in my post above to seek the advice and thoughts of other RWs who are living abroad, but it's important to understand and realize that RWs will most likely advocate the WOVO strategy everytime.  To a woman's frame of mind it's the more romantic thing to do, it is also the most wasteful strategy from a man's perspective if you are using the agencies to find a compatible woman.

Next question: do you speak Russian?  Well, I do speak passable Russian.  I could probably visit a FSU city and make friends with the natives, in fact, I have already done that, not once but many times.  I am not dependant on agency babysitters or interpreters whenever I'm in Russia, I can't pass as a Russian, but I can get by.   But I seriously doubt you could make it 24 hours in a city like Moscow, Kiev, or Odessa on your own if you don't speak the language.  My advice; take a six month course of Russian, learn to speak at least basic conversational level Russian, then take your walk down the street of a major FSU city.  Not before.  If you are seriously considering an ethnic Russian spouse, the time and little bit of money invested in learning some Russian will be the best investment you can ever make.

Next bit of advice, concentrate your time and effort only on those women who speak level 3, or better, English.  There is a cadre of men here who will argue that having a common language during the courtship is not important, I would never take such a position.  As in any relationship, communication in the beginning stages is absolutely crucial.  The danger is that by the time you start to understand that the woman may not be the perfect one for you, you have too much time, money, and emotional feelings invested to just walk away when you need to.

You can do this smart, or you can do this stupid.  Do it smart, and you can be happy as a clam, do it stupid, and your next visit will be to Dr. Kevorkian.

[Bruno]

But I seriously doubt you could make it 24 hours in a city like Moscow, Kiev, or Odessa on your own if you don't speak the language.

I have make it... 3.5 days of bus from Belgium to Moscow University campus... missing the train because tourist cannot buy ticket in the station but in a special office... staying in a sordid hotel ( common toilet and douche at each stair )... one full day in moscow using bus, taxi and metro... followed by 800 km by railroad...

My first tourist trip to Russia, almost 14 year ago... In these time, i was always able to find someone speaking a little French... Now trip are more easy, and in big city, you will always find someone who know English ( French seem to dissappear )... German seem to be a language know by some people, mainly these in the business sector...

Some people, same speaking Russian, will never make it themself right... if you have never go to a foreign country, i really don't advice to make all yourself, same if you have buy the best tourist book and know the local language...

[Bruce]

Tim - JB gives excellent pointers above, but you may miss some of it if you have thin skin  .  I put the words below in quotes because I really believe the words he wrote that I put in quotations and I could not say it better:

"If you are seriously considering an ethnic Russian spouse, the time and little bit of money invested in learning some Russian will be the best investment you can ever make.

Next bit of advice, concentrate your time and effort only on those women who speak level 3, or better, English.  There is a cadre of men here who will argue that having a common language during the courtship is not important, I would never take such a position." 

You have a good attitude.  Learn some Russian, ask questions and after a bit of time pick a location you want to visit in a target rich environment and go, sooner rather than later.  You probably will have to work with an agency, translator or guide at least in part on your first trip (I would recommend that), but plenty have done it on their own.  I say work with some professionals on your first / first few trips at the very least because they make the learning curve much easier and will increase the chances that you'll have at the very least a nice vacation.

[IAmZon]

No thin skin here!  It's all good.  I mean REALLY good.  The comments are terrific.

By the way, I did not men to imply, earlier in the thread, that I thought that 1000 Russian virgins were waiting in Red Square JUST for me.  I simply believe that given and even playing field ... I will do fine.   psst REALLY focking fine:)

I have been reading Turboguy trip report.  I am very impressed with the scope of experiences he crammed into one trip.  That cannot be a bad thing. Any one know more about Jack Bragg?

And jb, I'll begin studying Russian.  I will not get turned on by anyone who is not + 3 English. Both very sensible points.  We may end up being best friends when this thread comes to an end ...

[jb]

Ask anyone, I've everyone's best friend. 

[chivo]

heres another tip. dont be everyones friend, especially if you ever get to Russia. after you learn some Russian and a little about what makes these people tick, develop a little "edge" or youll never know what hit you. there will be no even playing field for you in Russia. hopefully you understand what i say, if not you will when/if you get here. good luck

chivo

[IAmZon]

Very interesting about the edge. 

I have noticed that some girls that I have CHATD with get very strong, very fast.  I don't mind that if that is communication.  But, if it also might suggest a very deep seated loner / survival of the fittest mentality, which flies in the face of my romantic image.

So do you mean a little edge like New York City - get the fuck out of my ... way that's MY taxi. <No problem>

Or a little edge like Chicago in the 1930 - Mr. Cappone does not like the way you look, BANG <Big Problem>

[Gator]

I AGREE WITH OLGA!

Well the part about writing to many women regardless of location.

I agree because Ricky Ricardo (or whatever your name) has a lot of time on his hands before he gets on a plane.

If I were Ricky, I would join some reputable, large listing agency such as Elena’s models and send a “Do you like my profile?” message to 20-25 women.  I would not buy 25 addresses at $10 each, not knowing if the women are still available or whether I meet their age requirements (can we say AFA).   

Next I would write to those who said “yes”, and then see where that develops.  Soon I would screen down to 4-6 women, and geographic location may be one of the screens.  I say that because Russia is too big to be flying from one end to just the middle.  You will probably realize that you have wasted time on a woman who you can not meet because of your limited time.  Yet, I imagine that there are 2-3 women who will be in the “must meet” category.

I think it is important to inform the ladies that you are serious and are planning a trip in early spring.

Ricky, when you write, “I am looking for a lady who is beautiful inside and out” I have four thoughts: 

-  First, I would select women who are attractive and then find the one with the most beautiful inside (and who happens to love you).
-  Second, the “ beautiful inside” part is not a sure thing just because the marriage agency hype says so. 
-  Third, to determine if she is beautiful inside will take longer than with an AW because of cultural and language differences. 
-  Fourth, whether she is beautiful inside depends upon whether you are “the man.”  Even the bitch has a heart of gold for her man.

Alternatively to all this writing, you could go on a tour or just go and work with a local agency as discussed in a concurrent thread in the “Starting Out” forum.  You could do this soon, have some fun and learn a lot about this endeavor.  So why are you waiting so long? 

BTW, when you are around RWD longer, you will learn that many of the people giving you advice here know a lot (and they could save you some pain even though you do not like their style).

Final thought.  You ex- could not have been that bad if you spent 10 years with her.  However, if you think she was bad, a bad RW will not waste 10 years before she rips your heart out.  Hope you do not hook one.

[KenC]

I AGREE WITH OLGA!

Well the part about writing to many women regardless of location.

I agree because Ricky Ricardo (or whatever your name) has a lot of time on his hands before he gets on a plane.

If I were Ricky, I would join some reputable, large listing agency such as Elena’s models and send a “Do you like my profile?” message to 20-25 women. 

Gator,
Writing to 25 women is a lot different than the thousands quoted by Olga.  Your plan sounds reasonable to me.
KenC