Helpers in Ukraine and Russia

[Pike]

We read in Kuna's trip report that his helper was not really much of a help when it came down to it.

And we read and know from experience that such people often charge prices higher than they should and/or change prices that have been agreed upon before.

There are two groups that cause these problems:

1) The native peoples in those countries who are purporting to help us.

2) Look in the mirror.

We and the western men who have gone before us are to blame for these problems.  I have read here and on other forums over and over again where we WM are either throwing money around or at the minimum are being a little generous with the money we are giving these helpers.  Many here deride those who are seeking to pay what locals pay and state we shouldn't be so stingy, etc.

The local helpers are just human beings.  When one of us arrives and starts giving some extra tip money, doesn't try to bargain, exclaims how cheap something is compared to back home, etc., then these people are just naturally going to charge the next guy more, and more and more.  We need to band together to be smarter consumers.

Anyone who is completely objective about this and not up the the clouds because of the hot pu$$y they are married to or hoping to marry also knows that the service in Ukraine and Russia is just simply terrible.  Some of these helpers start out being quite a bit more service oriented than their countrymen, but after dealing with WM for awhile and seeing how fawning we are about the help they are giving, these people eventually revert to form which is to provide lousy service.

I have used helpers in several cities that have been recommended highly by others.  Almost uniformly, I didn't find these helpers to be particularly helpful.  And they certainly were more and more seeing how much advantage they could take of someone who didn't speak the local language.  And I am a very nice guy who treats people with respect.  It was just that I didn't fall for the B/S that most WM do with respect to believing what they were trying to feed me.

When are we WM going to truly band together and stop utilizing the services of these people who don't really respect us at all and just see us as easy marks?

Years ago, Pavel was actually pretty good.  Now he sucks.

[Kuna]

Pike,

I read you comments above and agree... but with regards to individuals who "helped me" while in Ukraine I'd rather post the events and let people make up their own mind if I was being unreasonable or if I was poorly serviced.

What I think would be a tremendous help is understanding (for major cities) the typical costs we should be charged for everyday thngs.

Example:

In Kiev I now know you can get a taxi from O'Briens Pub to the airport for 120 UAH.

If someone goes there and MUST pay 140 or 150 so be it... he knows the extent of the price differential but if someone quotes him 200 or more he knows it's an ouot and out scam!


You can get from O'Briens to the Central Train Station for 25UAH. 

I did this trip several times and the worst I paid was 30UAH. Again, once people understand what the usual prices are they can decide to negotiate or pay an inflated price.

I found transit services to be the ones with most unreliable pricing but Ms D assured me that she thought the seond apartment we were in was overpriced... BUT she thought the first was good value.

Meals??? It's up to you when on the ground but if we could put cityguide type info in the wiki, or have a new feature specifically for city information we can all understand where is good value and where isn't.

Kuna

[Mir]

And did you know that you can flag any car going your way and get a ride for half the price of a regular taxi?
Not that I ever tried doing this without a Russian speaker with me.

[BillyB]

When are we WM going to truly band together and stop utilizing the services of these people who don't really respect us at all and just see us as easy marks?

Most guys who go to the FSU aren't educated enough to know how much things cost for services over there. They could pay three times as much as normal and come home a satisfied customer. Besides, some men want to show off by throwing money around to win friends and impress people but most likely, they end up getting used.

And did you know that you can flag any car going your way and get a ride for half the price of a regular taxi?

Mir, every car driving down the road is called a "taxi" in the FSU.

[ScottinCrimea]

This problem with poor service has to do with the short term mentality of most people here.  Because they could never be sure of what would happen tomorrow, they took as much as they could get today, not worrying about repeat service or good referrals. This attitude is starting to change, but VERY slowly.  This is not only with Westerners but they are more typically the target because they don not know the prices and don't speak the language.  I do know one translator guide here in Simferopol who has figured it out and treats his clients fairly.  He realizes that the benefit of the positive referrals and repeat business far outweigh the small amount of money he might gain in the short term by upping the prices.  I just wish more would catch on.

[Pike]

Yes Scott, I understand completely what you are saying.  I have talked, mostly in vain, to many business people trying to describe to them that they should be looking long-term rather than short-term.  But, they mostly just can't comprehend it.  Repeat business is not a concern to them because they say the people could just die, or move away, etc., so best get as much money from them up front rather than counting on the customers coming back again.

This inability to think long-term and aversion to planning carries over to their personal life also.

However, I do understand their point of view since they have grown up in a culture where their parents and grandparents have told them of the lack of stability of life in general and monetary value in particular.

But none of this means that we WM shouldn't band together as much as possible to steer away from those who are known to be providing poor service at high prices.

[Kuna]

Pike,

I think it's time we (all the members of RWD) start populating the wiki with REAL WORLD information about the cities were visiting.

I raised this once before but now that I have some information it might be time to start posting.

Things that are important are:

How much typical taxi fares are for the main routes;
Airport transfer costs;
Restaurant reviews (good value, fancy, cheap cheap);
Internal land and air travel costs;
etc

I'll try to get some time in the next week to look at posting some of this info.. Hopefully others will too.

Cheers,

Kuna

[prince_alfie]

Looks like a helper tends to be overrated. My friend managed rather decently with his girl for a whole week without any outside help.

[ScottinCrimea]

I think the first trip it is best to have some help.  After that, you can probably do fine on your own.

[sweggin]

Years ago, Pavel was actually pretty good.  Now he sucks.

I'm comming in late here, please excuse. Kunos T/R is a great and fun read.

Having used Pavels services i find the above statement way off. For sure, i'm not Pavels shill, with that said i'm happy with the service he provided for me while staying in Kiev. In business one can offer three things, price, service and quality. One can't do all three, two and youre doing good.

Is Pavel use to the timid, un-sure, confused bride seeker? Sure! But our friend was neither these things. He was a seasoned traveler custume to doing it on his own, a trait i admire.

When he is employed to guide or terp. or what ever youre needs are he does for sure watch the clock, that's business. But what about when he is not on the clock, is he on call for you anytime day or night? Yes. Are we charged for on-call, no. Can he be trusted not to put you in harms way or conspire with others to take youre money, yes.

I admit that the 220HR charge and giving you the bumms rush out of the Apt. was uncalled for. From my dealings with Pavel he is very approchable and resonable. Just put youre foot down as our friend KenC said, he'll take it ok, he's a man.

[timothe]

And did you know that you can flag any car going your way and get a ride for half the price of a regular taxi?
Not that I ever tried doing this without a Russian speaker with me.

I did...many times.  And the people I have met in cars were generally very nice.  One guy I met was totally in awe of me because of my citizenship.  He must have asked me about 50 questions during the ride and then he didn't even want to accept the money I gave him. 

I met another guy who looked exactly like "Coach" from Cheers.  We toured the nightclub scene in Moscow.  He was very helpful. 

I always took my trips on the cheap, but that just may be my Walmart/Garage Sale attitude about life.  The only time I ever paid for services is when I used the daughter of someone I met on ICQ as a translator.  As it turns out, she was the perfect translator for the woman I met.  (My past and current ladyfriend)  I even negotiated with both Hotel Sibir and Hotel Rostov for accomodations and Visas.

It's not that hard, really.  You just have to know how to use the internet.