How much time is enough???

[Rumpy]

I have a question ,,,I see the phrase "not enough vacation time" said frequently.

I have 2 weeks in July, 2 weeks at Christmas and 2 weeks whenever

How much time are we talking here?
Is ten or twelve days every six months enough ?,,, I cant go and spend a month at any given time ,Thats just not in my career vocabulary.

[Kuna]

Rumpy,

There's lots of advice in here about "how much time is enough" but I think it would be fair to say it is an individual thing.

I know with my plans I am not trying to set any time limit because for me once I reach that "limit" it would feel like a finish line.

I know the experienced guys in here recommend taking your time and not rushing things.  If you read the trip reports that end in disaster it's often because the guys lost their heads and rushed things.

I think the first trip will tell you a lot... after that who knows?  If you meet some girls and stick to the obvious rules of this journey it would be difficult for anyone to predict how much time is necessary or reasonable.

Just my thoughts... 

Kuna

[vwrw]

Rumpy, how much time will be enough for you and the woman you will like to know each other will depend on what way you will spend time with her and what level of English she has. If you are going to spend most time for sightseeing you would need a few years to know her. If you are going to explore her by asking a lot of questions in right way you would need much less time to know her. I mean you need ask not only what she likes or dislikes but also why or what are the reasons she likes or dislikes that. The motives why one does something open his/her personality much more.
I think the main reason why some men need a lot of time to know woman is they get into a trap of woman’s interested eyes. I think I do not need to remind how it is easy to speak only about yourself when one looks at you with interest. As a result when you come home you will think – “wow! She is amazing but I need more vacation time to spend with her for getting know her” - It is in the best case. In the worst case the thought you have not learned anything about her during meeting may not come to your mind. 

[Turboguy]

You are in far better shape than most guys so I would say in terms of vacation times available you are fine.  Viking is doing it without vacation time.  He is forced to make long weekend trip and try to do it with perhaps 4 days on the ground.   

The biggest danger is not in having insufficient time to have success.  It is in not taking the time to have success.  You will find yourself making a trip and meeting a beautiful woman who is intelligent, warm and romantic and takes a real interest in you and it is very easy to become a one week wonder.   Many guys meet a gal like this and think she is so wonderful she has to be the one and they start the K-1 process after 4 or 5 days together.   In most cases it is not enough time to really know each other.   If you were seeing an American woman you would often spend a couple of years seeing her every day before you reached that point.   Yes, doing that with an FSU woman is not practical for most of us.

I think VWRW made a very good point when she said spend a lot of time talking, getting to know one another.   She and I made a trip to Egypt together a month ago.  We probably spent less time doing touristy things than anyone in the history of first time visitors to Egypt.   Most of our time was spent talking about serious and important things that helped us to continue to learn about each other.   We probably averaged 2 hours a day of sightseeing and the rest of the time was spent talking.

[groovlstk]

There's a big difference between having enough vacation time to get to know a woman with whom you wish to get serious with as opposed to starting from scratch, wherein you'll be feeling your way around like a blind mouse, meeting multiple women, visiting multiple cities, and deciding which one, if any, you have genuine chemistry with.

Regardless, six weeks per year is great, now get on a plane and report back.

[Rags II]

Two weeks at a whack is not bad considering all the things that need to be kept up on the home front while you are away. The important thing is to be able to go back when you find someone special and not have to say that you'll be back next summer so "write me". That's the tough part.


One other thing to consider is that it takes most of us the better part of two days to get there and another one to get back. Man it's tough flying back in, driving straight from the airport to work and pulling a twelve hour shift (but worth every minute to be with your lady to the last second). Also there is the jet lag issue which if you have never expirienced it is like having a brain full of fog and swimming through jello. It's worse on the trip over and can last a couple of days. I try to conteract it somewhat by taking a Melatonin tablet every four hours from initial liftoff until I land and avoid the booze (until the sad flight back).

[Rumpy]

This idea just got blow out of the water

Company just got bought out and all personel just got a exit plan!!

Posted job listing in the "odds and ends category"

Hope someone has some ideas. The job economy here in Detroit is the worst in the nation now.

[Marc Dayton]

This might be a fun topic the so call 1-week wonder?


But in a positive manner can this work, and how to make it work if you match and file a K-1 visa on your first trip what are the right reason to file the K-1 visa?, and the wrong reasons ?

Maybe we can take the negative, and turn them into a positive to help a man who fines himself doing the visa on his first trip. 

Some of the best matches and marriages I have seen in 13 years have been on one-trip visits, but the AM meet many and not 1 RW.

So less try to keep this positive how can a man make this work. I have lots to say about this, but want to see how you all feel about this.


P.S. I will be in Tver Feb. 5th to March 1st if anyone will be near Tver let me know we can do coffie?

[tim 360]

Sure Mark go right ahead. I am sure many would benefit from your experiences, Cheers, tim360

[Marc Dayton]

Tim

I would like to here what you, and the other members of the RWD think in regrads to helping men no when its good to match on a first trip, and as I side maybe we can help men no when its not a good thing to do?

[viking]

In response to T/G's post, I think that there are many good guys who have 'typical' 9-5 jobs  and simply cannot just hop on a plane at the drop of a hat, and also are forced to work around their companies vacation schedule. I am one of these. So to make the most of it, I typically try to leave on a Thursday night, arrive on Friday  (usually over a 3 day holiday) and come home on say a Wednesday/Thursday. This gives me 5-6 days on the ground. and only use 3-4 days vacation. In this respect I can, if I wanted to, make 4-5 trips a year. Or, go on some type of a tour and back it up with another trip a few months later and then once more again. I do not think that more time is necessary in the 'search' mode and once a good women is on the radar, 3-4 trips a year to solidify your feelings should work. At least I hope so.

[jb]

Viking,

I also made 3-4 trips a year during our courtship.  Luckily for me, my position and tenure gave me 6 weeks vacation per year.  I would be out of vacation days by August and my final trip was always done by taking LWOP (leave without pay).  Some men can do it, some cannot.  I made a decent enough income, lived modestly when at home, drove my company vehicle, (I actually parked my personal vehicle for two years and used the money I would have spent on insurance to buy airfares)  and had very little social life outside of the work place.  I spent hours on the phone with Etna during the months we were apart, it was my principal source of entertainment, I endured the high phone bills until prices per minute began to come down and phone cards became more reliable.  Remember, when we were courting was the time before "Free Call".

But I had a goal in mind, and as we continued to become better acquainted the light at the end of the tunnel continued to get brighter and brighter.

Hang in there.

[Fester5]

Rumpy,

Sorry to hear about the mass exit. 

If you do plan your trip to Ukraine, the first thing you need to do is decide where you are going. If you have been speaking to a girl in Kyiv, then maybe you'll spend all your time there and can decide on how many days to stay after that. If you are planning to visit Kyiv & then either Odessa or down to Crimea, you will defintely need at the minimum two weeks (in my opinion). I spent a weekend in Odessa & Kyiv once and even though I had a great time, Sunday night was there sooner than I thought.

Just my two cents worth. 

Cheers,
Fes

[Son of Clyde]

I spent about 10 days vacation the first trip and 5 days the second. I don't think there is a magic number. For me it felt right because we had been corresponding for six months and had regular telephone conversations. I can tell you one thing, having a misunderstanding by phone or email is not much fun. It was a good test to see how we dealt with our differences but not much fun at the time. You need to be with her as much time as you can afford.

[Jumper]

vwrw said:

Rumpy, how much time will be enough for you and the woman you will like to know each other will depend on what way you will spend time with her and what level of English she has. If you are going to spend most time for sightseeing you would need a few years to know her. If you are going to explore her by asking a lot of questions in right way you would need much less time to know her. I mean you need ask not only what she likes or dislikes but also why or what are the reasons she likes or dislikes that. The motives why one does something open his/her personality much more.

Rumpy-
 VWRW hit on some very good advice.
Especially liked the part about asking your "love interest" not just how she feels about issues,,but the  WHY she feels a certain way about them.


Ron woody used to post a a similar thing  called
 "converse in reverse"

basically seriuos talk and questions about fundamental issues, deal breakers , life, love, family, children , and commitment etc FIRST ..

save the more usual small talk for later

not as much  fun perhaps, but this process isnt traditional
and the time you will have face to face is preciuos,
 use it wisely
 
but yes you should get on your feet first for sure..
and sorry to hear about the job situation.



jb- 
 parking the personal  vehicle, for the company vehicle (truck)  etc, all  reminds me of many things i did as well..
 to allow more frequent trips. 
I had a job that allowed me time in europe anyway,..
but additionally I also worked many extra hours, weekends , and holidays to accrue *comp time* i could use as well.
For me, lots of small things added up to important travel /face to face time.

[CaptB]

Same answer, different thread?

Q: How long should/can this take (to be sure of the relationship)?

A: As "long"..........as it takes.


Capt B

[ScottinCrimea]

My first trip here was 10 days long.  We spent a couple of days here in Simferopol, her home town, and then the rest on the coast away from distractions where we could focus on learning about each other.  I think it was enough for my first visit, though it was still hard to say good bye at the airport.  Something that we did that has not been mentioned hereis chatting online with a webcam.  Luckily she had a computer in her home.  I paid for a webcam and internet time for her and we would see each other and chat nearly every day.  It really solidified our relationship and by the time I made a return visit 4 months later, we knew each other very well.  It was a lot cheaper than phone calls and in many ways more intimate.  I followed with a third trip about two months after that and we met two months later in Istanbul for the holidays.  I was working 20 twelve hour shifts a month so I scheduled trips over the last week of one month and the first week of the next month.  This meant that I was working basically 20 days in a row, but it was worth it.

[CaptB]

I met my first (relationship) RW on my first trip through LTP in Tver. Sometime after a return visit......we decided to part company. A doctor in Moscow was next. In the middle of a second visit I realised she would not be a match. I did not use a back-up plan......just finished the trip as a vacation (very worthwhile....met some great people.....visited some interesting people). My first RW and I decided to give it another shot.......but my instincts were right the first time........and the relationship ended for good. My third RW......became my wife. After meeting online.......phone calls became daily (an hour or more).......and "virtual" chemistry was apparrent early-on. Chemistry was confirmed almost immediately upon meeting. A "phone" proposal (world record in length......according to MIL  ).........and marriage in Russia on the second trip. Life has been good ever since. There is no easy answer here........only the examples of others as an idea of "range".

If your eyes are open......and you don't disregard even "pink" flags.......you'll be able to sort things out. If you have had several trips.......but still have to "consider" whether feelings are mutual or not.........you may have to consider that you are on the wrong track. I think even a first trip can be very telling........about mutual feelings. With my wife......things were obvious. I practised "Doc Woody's".......converse/reverse.......way of determining whether a relationship is possible with a particular RW. My wife and I discussed all of the serious issues about what we wanted in a relationship..............."first". I think it saves you from becoming "attached".......only to find out later..........you are not on the same page about what you want out of life. You may even like each other.....alot. If you find out later you goals to not mesh........you will be headed for disappointment.

How long does it take? How long should it take? As long.........as necessary.


Capt B

[jb]

I practised "Doc Woody's".......converse/reverse.......way of determining whether a relationship is possible with a particular RW. My wife and I discussed all of the serious issues about what we wanted in a relationship..............."first". I think it saves you from becoming "attached".......only to find out later..........you are not on the same page about what you want out of life. You may even like each other.....alot. If you find out later you goals to not mesh........you will be headed for disappointment.

How long does it take? How long should it take? As long.........as necessary.

This is some of the best advice I've ever seen.

[Marc Dayton]

Ron woody used to post a a similar thing  called
 "converse in reverse"

This is some of the best words and advice you newbes will ever here!!

I would like to add some stepping-stones to this by saying this is the foundation to a good match & marriage, and it must be done on your first trip. If you don’t know this most if not all RW will respect you for being upfront with her. RW take a more practical look at marriage first then men do.

My advice has always been first date take some baby steps see if you like her she likes you then on the second date I would jump in feet first with the (converse in reverse)

One of the best questions you can ask at the end of the first date to help you set up for a second meeting is

If you meet the Wright man, and I am not saying I am that man are you reedy to move to a new country and start a new life and family?

The reason you want to say( I am not saying I am that man ) is to take the presser off her you should find out if she is serous, and has thought about what it means to leave her home land friends for a new an different life.

This can open all the doors to jump in with two feet, and talk vary serous to each other on your next meetings about the things you Can’t live with, and what the two of you expects in a day to day life as husband and wife!!!

Also don’t forget if she has a child you must talk to her about how she sees your roll as father to her child. I have seen many women US as well as RW think is only your roll to support her child, and don’t you dare tell my child what to do.