Newbie Questions

[Michelangelo]

I just want to take a look around before I find myself in another relationship.  You know, relax and enjoy the process.  I really think that much can be gained when two people invest in each other as is the case with International dating. I think that can create a unique glue that holds two people together.  That is my attraction to the process.

Nice, Riv.  And IMHO, that's the key to success.  Guys who go to the FSU to get a bride usually fail.  Those who go with the intent of dating, hoping to have fun and meet a good girl, have much better success, because they are patient.

[Jumper]

T/G said-

I think where every you go in the FSU you can find a woman who will qualify. I really have seen women with little in the way of grace and manners far more anywhere in the USA than anywhere in Russia.

Rivcardo -  i've lived long term in Brazil, very beautiful girls for sure.
but no not nearly as sophisticated as your average RW.

you seem to be  sweating some * minimun standard *of manners and sophistication.

You will find any type anywhere..  it is individualistic afterall?
and yes generalizations are a bitdh!!!

Does a typical NYC girl have bettrer manners than an LA valley girl or even socialite?
what about a girl from an atlanta suburb?

you cant really even *generlize* things accurately within our own culture (and sub cultures)

often AGE and maturity have a lot to do with this?
 as well as education, oppurtunity, and exactly how she was raised..?

as far as the FSU..
my opinion is that yes some of this drops off if you're headed to  a village or very small city..
but honestly you are  *generally* going to find FSU women to be abiove your minimum standard in manners..
wether the city is mid to large provincial or the major cities..

in my honest opinion, when you give examples like a brazilion hotty picking her nose..
is you are far over analysing it..

the truth is- you will be hard pressed to find a "crude" RW , in the realms of a normal western guys search
and you wouldnt continue dating her if you did?
there are far to many more refined.

you WILL find some course rough RW, of course ..
but its much *todo* about little.

that culture is generally more *refined* than here..
even in its provincial cities..
(almost everyone of them will  have opera and theater for example)

in *general* they always dress better , and are more into the arts,,etc..and yes are generally quite a notch more sophisticated than the average person in the west.

I cant imagine a RW picking her nose on a date or regularly
,if ever , using profanity.

(you could find such, but not as often as here ok?)

i'm not sure what your minimun standard of manners is at,,
but its a safe bet that *in general*
FSU women
regardless of thier home city , will be up to the task..

 
as far as economic drivers , of course it is the reality!!

i think TG put in nicely/accurately  here

I think for a lot of the women they see themselves in a culture that does little to help the average person.   Where the average person if they are smart and eductated can do little more than get by.   They see a culture where the men tend to not be real faithful or real family oriented.  Where if a guy is successful he tends to have both a wife and a mistress.  Where, when she looses her looks he will run off with a younger woman.  Where women are not really treated as equal to men.

This quote would closely  match my wifes observations and thoughts.
A successful man in Russia often has the best of both worlds..
an average guy ,, struggles a lot economically despite working a couple jobs and being a hard worker and good character family man.
(yes generalities that have many exceptions)
for example do you hear of Russian families with 3 to 5 children often? why not?
She did not want to relocate ..and would prefer we lived in Ukraine.

[I/O]

Rivardco  Regarding the "I want out" thing. Relating this to any woman you would want, forget that from the get go.  By and large it is nonsense.  Of course there would be some, but honestly I have never met one yet.  Any woman who has come onto my radar would have taken some convincing that leaving her country was an advantages move.  BTW they have not all been wealthy.

There is much ambiguity here.  Just because a woman seeks a decent life, doesn't mean she is necessarily a visa jockey.  Of course she is seeking a man who can provide a decent life.  No woman with any cerebral matter whatsoever is specifically looking to step down in standards.  This is what the "Git Brigade" who continue to track over there just don't seem to understand.

Russia and to an extent the FSU in general has a long history, rich in culture, arts and other refinements which are more recent inclussions in societies such as USA and Australia.  I seperate USA and Australia from "The West" in these examples.  We are migrant nations by and large and are really only now begining by comparison to Europe and the FSU to develop some aspects of our cultures.  That is all by the by, the point is that you will find in almost any medium to larger city that the women have exposure on a regular basis to the arts and other more cultured aspects of life.  Thus, generally speaking, you will be pleasently surprised wherever you go.

No doubting that Moscow and in some ways more so St Petersburg you will find some of the finest if not the finest of this aspect of any culture in the world and naturally the women who have been exposed to this long term are likely to have a higher appreciation than some others. BUT, nothing is a given.  Assume nothing. Generally speaking, I think the basic human drivers are somehwat similar anywhere, but dedication to spouse and family, personal manners and other social graces of Russian women are on an entirely different level. I have been fortunate enough to find these in the women I have associated with on a personal level in my own country, but I simply need to look about my office to say to myself...But..............................

It probably all comes down to my grandfathers advice to me when I was a child.  "Boy..!!, the one you want is the one who doesn't want..!! The one you need is the one who doesn't need you..!! The one who will be happy with you is the one who is happy where she is..!! The one who wants to move will always want to move..!!"

In the best part of 4 decades, I havn't proved him wrong yet...............


I/O

[IAmZon]

It is interesting to note that this thread has perhaps been the  most illuminating one for me.  Not all the information I received is in public view, some was PMs; other phone calls.  The membership here is enormously generous and supportive.

The main thrust of this thread was to better understand the economy and "affluence factor of Moscow, STP, Kiev; and compare them to the secondary cities.  On this question, I have reached a dead end.  I cannot understand any more until I see for myself.

[jj]

rivardco-  I am going to Moscow for a week in February to meet with my fiancee.  The hotel costs are quite expensive for the average person, and I felt lucky to get a 3 room apartment for 185 u.s. dollar per night for 1 week.  She will traveling from Volgograd. She is educationed,  well mannered, quiet, her own apartment etc.  She knows Moscow well as she has worked there for awhile .  If you know where to eat you can keep your costs down, but most are expensive in the main restaurants.  The Bolshoi Theatre charges $250 per person for main hall concerts or ballet, but others can average $65 to $160 per person, depending on performance.  I believe the Metro is the least expensive way to get around.   I am glad she will be there to get me thru the maze.  She actually prefers cooking healthy meals in apartment we will be renting, but still I am looking forward to the russian and ukranian restaurant cruisine.   I was one of the lucky guys who found his match in a FSU gal after bad experience with AW after my divorce .  This site and the advice it contains is valuable to any one who is serious about RW.  Extract what pertains to you and what you feel comfortable with.  I did not take all the recommendations, but followed most of them (after spending too  much on useless pay per letter sites and no contact info).   My round trip airfare to Moscow was very reasonable for February,  but I know from what I hear  it will be a more expensive trip than to Volgograd.  I also will know when I get there!  -jj

[jb]

rivardco,

I really ought to hook you up with my step-son in Moscow.  He's in a 4 room flat in the University district overlooking the 1980 Moscow Olympic site.  He's living there alone since babushka passed away, (well, I doubt he's entirely alone), and there'd be plenty of room for the two of you.  He's 21, but dates *older* women, his current is 28, (I think), and he knows every single marrage minded girl in Moscow.  He speaks English like a native, Russian like the native he is, he is extremely smart and intelligent, (think red diploma), holds down a full time job making the big bucks in Moscow, and still parties like a wild man with the prettiest women in town.

What would that be worth to you?

[KenC]

jb,
To hell with Rivardco, I want to go now!
KenC

[jb]

KenC, I'm lookin' for someone willing to PAY big bucks, you know Lena ain't going for that deal.

[IAmZon]

JB,

I am travelling today - bad internet - no time.

Regarding your son in Moscow.  WOW!  That is the perfect solution a Russian wing man that knows English.

Such a hook up would put you on the good guy list for life.  A friend in need is a friend indeed.

I'll give a PM later today or tomorrow.