Vitamins

[RK]

It appears that some of the members here have some medical or nutritional background. My fiancee asked me if I could bring back some vitamins when I return to Kharkov for my monthly trip next month. Does anybody have any recommendations about which vitamins (multi or whatever) would be good to supplement the typical Ukrainian food fare for adults and children? Thanks in advance for your feedback.

[Wayne B]

RK, which vitamin would be best is a debate in it's self....I would suggest a multi vitamin for a woman and another for children. One A day for women and a chewable flavored for children. You can buy them anywhere.  My wife is from Kharkov and watching what they eat is far more healthy then us Americans eat...and they also get much more everyday exercise than we do

[ScottinCrimea]

Any multivitamin with iron should be fine.  No real difference between the brand names and the generic ones so just find the cheapest.

Now, because you asked, you get my little medical lecture on vitamins, but don't try this with your FSU friends because you will be branded as a heretic.

Vitamins are basically a lot of expensive hype.  The normal person with a reasonably normal diet just plain doesn't need them.  This would mean those with a limited diet for whatever reason, those with illnesses affecting food absorption or retention, pregnant women, and occasionally small children.  Basically the person who actually needs vitamins is the exception, not the rule as the manufaturers would have you believe. There are only 4 vitamins that are soluble in fat and therefore stay in your body for any length of time (Which also can make it unhealthy to take too much of them.  They are vitamins A, D, E and K.  The rest just get flushed through the system once your body has the requisite 100%.  As my nutrition professor once said, "Any normal person who is taking vitamins regularly is just pissing nickles"

[jb]

As my nutrition professor once said, "Any normal person who is taking vitamins regularly is just pissing nickles"

I wouldn't disagree with this except for women who are on a perputal diet to stay slim.  Most are deficient on B complex, (they don't consume enough red meat), and C,,, maybe D because they don't see enough sunlight.  Most really thin women are very pale.  I think a daily "off the shelf" multi-vitamim is more than adaquate of most folks if they are "off their feed" for whatever reason.  My wife used to eat fish 4 or 5 times a week, I weaned her off that because of the ability of some commercial sea foods to hold toxins and heavy metals, she now eats sea food maybe twice a week and that is more likely wild salmon or perch instead of tuna and those cheap little sardine-like pickled fish Russians are so fond of.   

A well rounded diet should be enough for most normal persons,,, eat your veggies.

[FreddieK]

My friend from Novosibirsk just asked me to bring her some vitamins as well. It seems that selling fake vitamins is a common practise over there.

[ScottinCrimea]

You can buy pretty much the same vitamins there as in the US, including the name brands.  They just seem to think that US vitamins are better for some reason. there are a fair amount of "forged" meds over there, but I don't think vitamins are a problem because there isn't as much of a profit in faking them.

[batman]

Depending on which part of the world we live in...

Mineral content in our soil, food and animals have dropped between 20-80% in the past 60 years. Modern farming techniques are part of the problem. It has become quantity before quality in the modern age. Therefore supplements will continue to  be needed.

Minerals are required before vitamins can be processed by the body.

Reference: "The Root Of All Disease" by Elmer G. Heinrich. The author has spent over 30 years researching this subject and is backed up by many reputable M.D.s

I've been taking Sizzling Minerals (TM) (has around 75 minerals in it) for a while and I can really feel the difference.

The Iron factor seems pretty serious if many FSU women require 10+ hours sleep. 8 hours should be plenty so seems theres something going on there... or maybe it's just lazyness???

There are many fairly useless multivitamin products out there there don't get absorbed by the body easily so this takes a bit of research to find the best products. The above mentioned mineral product is said to be the best available and will be adding vitamins to it shortly I'm told. I don't sell it but I've spoken to a lot of natural health interested people and this keeps coming up. Also I noticed the difference in myself big time.

[ScottinCrimea]

batman, sorry, but now you've stepped into my area of expertise.  Whenever I hear claims that contradict what I learned in medical school, I check them out pretty thoroughly.  Sometimes I've had to change what I thought, but usually not.  One of my first criteria is to see if the claims are made by a person who stands to gain financially.  When I practiced, I got no financial reward from prescribing one thing over the other, I just wanted to give my patients the best thing for them.  so first I checked into Elmer Heinrich.  He has no formal education in nutrition.  He has been involved in several nutritional supplement companies such as TRC Nutritional Laboratories, Inc., Rockland Corp. and US Naturals.  All of them are multi-level marketing companies, which immediately raises a big red flag with me.  He was previously cited by the FDA for making fraudulent claims about his products including that they had passed FDA testing.  When he persisted despite this citation, the Justice Department got involved.  There is a case currently pending against him in Texas for fraud and deception.  I checked into some of his MD backers and they also had a financial interest in nutritional supplements.  So based on that alone, I can't hold him as credible no matter what he claims, so any references that you give to information in his book is suspect.

I'm happy that you feel better taking the Sizzling Minerals product.  If you think it's worth the cost and you can avoid getting sucked into being a distributor, go for it.  I have better things to spend my money on than having urine high in minerals and vitamins.

I checked into the senonian deposit in Utah that they get their product from.  I found no documentation anywhere about senonian's benefits as a source of minerals other than the promotional material put out by the company, and as I noted before, their claims are suspect.  But heck, I'm here in Utah right now so if you want a cheaper supply, I can run out there, fill up some empty capsules with some of the dirt there and send it to you.

[catzenmouse]

I'm here in Utah right now so if you want a cheaper supply, I can run out there, fill up some empty capsules with some of the dirt there and send it to you.

Scott,

 Should I expect to see you on TV in the coming weeks promoting your version of "Focus Factor"? 

"Crimean Super Pill! Helps you lose weight, grow hair, increase metabolism, and increase your IQ by 50 points!!! It even teaches you Russian while you sleep!"

Ken

[batman]

Hi Scott,

I'm definately not a an expert in this area. I will have to see if there is more to the Heinrich Story. I have to admit a lot of his book makes sense. I would also have to agree there are vested interests in both the drug companies with their multi billion dollar drug industry as well as the rapidly expanding smaller natural health industry.

If Heinrich believes in his research I can see how he would want to get active in creating a supply for the demand. As well as doctors that also see it as benefitial. If I spent my life researching an area and found a solution to a problem I would want some monetary renumeration too. I would have to do my own research or pay to have it done to back up the facts before I could be sure. On the other hand the FDA doesn't exactly have clean hands in relation to products it approves and has been proven in the past to have hidden conections to Big Pharma. It's a bit hard to see from the outside who's paying who.

On the other hand the drug companies have a bigger PR and marketing budget to promote their products. I'm even less likely to believe what the pharmacudical companies are saying based on many products they sell including ADHD "medications" and their sideaffects VS natural health research using Omega 3 and getting very high success rates. My nefew was in danger of being labeled with ADHD and my Grandma started giving him an Omega 3 based product and he turned around 180 degrees. A lot of this has been in the media with the natural health benefits finally coming out.

The other questionable subject is cancer treatments. The existing (FDA approved?)radiation treatments have around a 20-30% success rate. I've been studying this a bit and recently discovered there are treatments available with a far higher 60% + success rates which are being actively suppressed. So something is definately going down in this area...

I definately respect your opinion with your medical studies and I'm open to further unbiased scientific evidence.

Since doctors can only recommend products approved by the FDA it will be interesting to find out what good products are being suppressed and what dangerous products are being allowed through. I know both is occuring so I hope someone out there will independantly research and reveal the facts soon... maybe I might have to get rich and do it myself... or perhaps TigerPaws (fictional?) rich friend wouldn't mind putting his 300+ million fortune to good use...

I'm interested to receive any more information yo find on these subjects. 

[ScottinCrimea]

batman,  I don't disagree with you about some of the things you cite about the pharmaceutical industry.  There is a significant amount of abuse going on there as well and I don't always follow the party line on what they recommend.  the one thing they have going for them is that of peer review and the requirement for scientific studies of some type to back up their claims.  Much of the problem is how they present those claims in their marketing.  For example there is one anti-depressant that wasn't so hot, but they discovered that it was effective to some degree in helping to stop smoking.  Next thing you know they come out with the exact same drug but with a new name and a higher price as a stop smoking aid.  I used to just prescribe the old drug to my patients and explain that it was the same thing.  It's also been shown how they give the appearance that certain conditions are more prevalent than they actually are in order to convince doctors to prescribe their medications more.  I'm pretty much a common sense kind of guy.  If it doesn't make common sense to me, I don't go for it.

I would be very cautious if I were you regarding what you hear about things like cancer treatments.  You need to really check your sources because ther are a lot of people making false claims about his as well as weight loss, arthritis, and any other illness that is just plain difficult to treat.  I have found that any product that relies on testimonials rather than research for its marketing is snake oil in nearly 100% of the cases. That's another huge red flag for me. Most doctors I know practice medicine for the right reasons, and if there is something that can be proven to help our patients, we will jump all over it. I get pretty disgusted with those who claim that there is a vast conspiracy of evil greedy physicians who deliberately suppress certain treatments for monetary gain.  We just aren't that stupid or that evil.

[BC]

I have better things to spend my money on than having urine high in minerals and vitamins.

Scott..

How about this therapy?

http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/urine.htm

Maybe the vitamins will 'stick' better second or third time 'round?

[groovlstk]

"Sizzling Minerals"? Sounds like an appetizer at a steakhouse.

How can you expect to navigate the treacherous waters of seeking an FSU woman when you can't even recognize a snake oil salesman on your own turf?

[batman]

"Sizzling Minerals"? Sounds like an appetizer at a steakhouse.

How can you expect to navigate the treacherous waters of seeking an FSU woman when you can't even recognize a snake oil salesman on your own turf?

First of all young man... I don't like the tone of your question... LOL

Second of all, I have seen no evidence that this person actually is a "snake oil" salesmen... for all we know he is fighting a system that doesn't want him to win and the paperwork was reversed conveniently to put him in the sh!t so to speak... a few stories come to mind... runaway jury... that tobacco jury movies LOL and a few others... the jury is still out and I can imagine what an honest person going into such an endeavor would be up against.

Thirdly, if I met the guy and spoke to him for a few minutes I would be able to gauge him personally. I have spoken to 2 very well intentioned friends that both sited their own benefit from the product and had no intention of selling it to me. So I can only go by my own experience and of those I consider well intentioned.

Fourthly (if such a word exists), I will not be buying anything from FSU women unless they work in a store... LOL

If I see scientific evidence that was not funded by a Big Pharma friend I will happily reverse my decision.

Scott,

I certainly don't Judge you as a physician who deliberately suppresses certain treatments for monetary gain. If anything it is those above you that decide what does get past on to physicians and what doesn't.

I agree one should be VERY careful when researching medical solutions given outside a physicians advice. * Warning: If pain persists please see your doctor *

[groovlstk]

for all we know he is fighting a system that doesn't want him to win and the paperwork was reversed conveniently to put him in the sh!t so to speak...

Funny, I see the same justifications (also without the slightest big of evidence) from guys whose Russian GF claims her mobile was stolen so she couldn't speak to him for a week, or her grandmother was ill and she had to suddenly leave for Novosibirsk, or she couldn't complete her K1 documents because she had problems with her passport, or that she doesn't want you to visit her in her home city because she may be called into the office to work... All of these claims have one common element: they're nearly impossible to disprove--just like bogus claims about health products. But guys who want to believe something so badly are willing to toss aside rational thinking. (e.g., see DKMM's thread about his fiance's lie).

[batman]

Funny, I see the same justifications (also without the slightest big of evidence) from guys whose Russian GF claims her mobile was stolen so she couldn't speak to him for a week, or her grandmother was ill and she had to suddenly leave for Novosibirsk, or she couldn't complete her K1 documents because she had problems with her passport, or that she doesn't want you to visit her in her home city because she may be called into the office to work... All of these claims have one common element: they're nearly impossible to disprove--just like bogus claims about health products. But guys who want to believe something so badly are willing to toss aside rational thinking. (e.g., see DKMM's thread about his fiance's lie).

I got scientific charts in my hand... what you got?

An article in the paper that says the FDA is taking someone to court?

How much of the newspaper do you beleive?

Better not to beleive or trust anyone, right?... except of course governments because they always tell us the truth and have our best interests at heart and happiness as their priority...

[ElaRossa]

My recommendations would be Centrum multivitamins. Besides that it's one of a few brands recommended by FSU physicions, it covers a wide range of vitamines and minerals within a regular level dose. Our medicine doesn't support mega-dose approach to vitamins and I remember that I developed a serious allergic reaction when I came here as I was not even looking at the dosage on the label back them.

Kharkov is a big industrial city with population over one million people and a very high level of pollution and very poor quality of water. Cases of malnutrition are quite common as people usually have rather limited choice of grocery not only due to possible financial hardship, but also because we traditionally get fruit and vegetables in season only.

Centrum will do unless there are some particular health concerns that may require an extra care as well.

Bon voyage

[groovlstk]

I got scientific charts in my hand... what you got?

Common sense.

[ScottinCrimea]

I hate to burst anyone's bubble, but there just isn't any pharmaceutical/medical/government conspiracy.  There are a lot of charlatans who use this to explain why the pharmaceutical companies and doctors haven't jumped on their new miraculous cures.  The bottom line is that if the drug companies knew that a product had merit and it could pass FDA testing as to efficacy and side effects, they would be all over it.

I have to disagree to some extent with ElaRossa.  Vitamins do nothing to counteract the effects of pollution and the dasy when fruits and vegetables were available in season only are long gone.  What I see is that in general the people in the FSU eat a healthier diet than those in the US.