A look into the future of life in the West

[Trenchcoat]

I think as a lot of dating in the FSU relies not just on what is happening in the FSU but also in the West it is worthwhile looking at what future trends may be in the West. Remembering back to the credit crunch around 2008 or so I recall a log of Western Men lost interest in FSU dating for a number of years as their own economic situation took priority. Fast forward to today and Russia and Ukraine look like they are going to be as poor after the was as they were after the end of the Soviet Union, maybe even poorer if that is possible.

In the West potentially we may see a return to economic troubles due to highly indebted western countries as a result of government spending, the cost of the virus, etc. In that there may be winners & losers, those that are in safe enough jobs being able to go to Russia or Ukraine for a lady and those who end up out of work who can't.

Yet I see another trend likely emerging and this a potentially unexpected one for many people I think. A move away from Feminism in the West and a rebalancing more towards the Patriarchal system. Now that may shock many out there who have become accustomed to all the 'women in the workplace' mantra but I believe in the future more women will go back to being stay at home housewives and will look to Western Men again to support them, but can you work out why?

[olgac]

I am sorry I just don't see this
" A move away from Feminism in the West and a rebalancing more towards the Patriarchal system." at all! not in FSU not in the west! As the economy gets worse and worse in both places, I see more women having to contribute the the household income to the point that 20 years ago when many here got married it was still possible to buy a home and support a family with 2 kids on one salary. Since then the housing and food prices skyrocketed but the salaries haven't kept up.

Lets be honest, majority of FSU women who came to marry Americans were expecting to assume a more feminine role of not worrying about finances in the family (as they say feel like they are behind stone wall) , but subsequently they were really disappointed in the fact many still had to work outside home and usually still work doing domestic chores at home just like in FSU. (I am a little different in a fact I actually LIKE my job before marrying an American, but most wanted a more traditional setup and were sort of disappointed). And I argue that if someone age 40 would marry now it will be an even bigger disappointment in terms of a lifestyle he can provide on his salary!

I remember talking to a beautiful woman, 39 who married a 55 year old casino manager. Looks like prior to that in Russia she had many wealthy boyfriends who gave her expensive gifts she brought with her to US.
She mentioned her American husband used to show off her fur coat to his visiting friends, like look what a classy woman
I married. I remember she was totally annoyed because *HE* did not buy her that coat (about $20K). This gives you an Idea about the reality vs expectations.

If I look at all the marriages that failed, in most cases a woman wanted  her life to change for the better economically but in many cases it did not! The man though he could be a provider, like You think Trench, but in reality he just could not provide the lifestyle she wanted. In many cases she was willing to go down in her looks/age requirements in exchange of felling like a feminine lady without worrying about finances at all, al financial problems solved. But when it turned out to not to be the case. like she saw an ugly small house with old furniture, no remodeling, huge mortgage, lots of accumulated debt, ruined credit score etc, a man making financial decision she could not respect, the woman basically decided if I need again to pull the financial weight, why the hell am I with a man for whom I am out of his league.

At the same time marriages stayed strong when a man was able to play a traditional male role well (good financial decisions, lots of income) and was not controlling or abusive. This is what I see as a pattern. Many of these woman are pretty savvy with finances. It takes a very competent man to earn their respect and feel safe with his decisions.

So no I do not see the world in FSU or in the west moving towards more traditional roles at all, and the purchasing power of a median male income is declining rapidly

[olgac]

Oh and now, unlike 20-30 years ago it is so common to hear form younger FSU women that not only they don't want to work, they don't want to do house chores either as they are not a maid! It' such a common theme in all the discussion: wanting a REAL provider who not only pays the bills, but also hired professionals to do cooking, cleaning and a nanny as well so that a woman can just be beautiful and inspire her. There are even men writing who supposedly provide all that an are happy if their lady just relaxes in spas and meets friends at coffee shop and all she contributes to relationship is her love. So how many men exactly will be able to afford that??? all bill and house help

[Trenchcoat]

I don't doubt any of that Olga, but that is now to become the past. Here's the cliffhanger, AI is due to wipe out nearly all white collar jobs probably over the next 10-15 years or so, year on year. So that leaves mostly Blue Collar work, which is known for what? Yep I hope you are thinking, grime, filth and generally uncomfortable conditions - conditions that are a turn off for most females!

So what are Women going to do when their White Collar jobs go you may ask?

Some will try for the more cleaner Blue Collar jobs like Krim's Daughter, Electrical Engineer. Some will go for White Collar Jobs that contain a necessary physical presence element, maybe Social Worker, etc. But both of those and any other clean environment jobs will be in short supply. Essentially loads upon loads of Females won't be able to fit into the clean environment jobs. They will be looking at dirty grubby Blue Collar work with no enthusiasm for it what do ever. Just look at the Construction Trade and the low uptake for jobs on site from females.

So what will those outcast women do? That's right they will go looking for a man to shackle themselves too for a better life than hardship in Blue Collar work or unemployment benefit. It might not be a very affluent life but it will be better than the alternatives.

Hence why I think we will see more traditional lifestyle re-emerging and a housing market that will adjust a little downwards in value to reflect the income disposal at hand

[olgac]

They might LOOK for such men but where will they find them? That's the problem: women are by far better in adapting to the new changing environment than the men! You should research what happened in FSU in 90s that made FSU seek western men in the first place@

The soviet economy collapsed, men lost government jobs, factory jobs. In most cases men just became depressed and stayed home drinking while their wives adapted to the new economy, changed careeers, started selling stuff, something to support a family. All the while men just set depressed on a couch and didn't even do any domestic chores, expecting a tired wife to come form hard day at work and cook for him and serve him.

This is how women got TIRED of being strong and pulling all the weight in the family, they now wanted to be responsible for nothing, to be weak, feminine and let a man take care of everything. They mistakenly though western men are totally different.

And what happened in most cases with some exceptions of course? a bitter disappointment, a realization that men are men everywhere, that american men are in a sense weaker and less financially savvy that they are, that they also won't take just any blue collar job to support a family when the jobs in their profession are gone, that a woman must still control what he does like a mom or else he will get into credit card debt, refinances mortgage in a disastrous way, get out an equity loan to get a temporary cash, ruin his credit score and potentially lose the house. This is the reality of it, even, to be frank, You Trench is not as financially savvy and just any FSU woman! How do You expect her to take a feminine role if she cant trust You to handle things?

[Trenchcoat]

What makes you think I am not financially savvy. In fairness some guys are brought up in environments where their financial thinking doesn't develop well in the West, often it may even be those from quite affluent backgrounds.

I agree with what you are saying about how some western men are and the expectations of FSW in the past or present even. Potentially sometimes though the FSW may not understand how things are in the West. Sometimes the Western Man isn't good financially other times the FSW may just not understand how culturally different finance is in Western Society. My girlfriend has told me that until recently in Ukraine it was not generally possible to get a mortgage for a house, you had to save up the money for it over years, renting at first if you paid rent. In the West mortgages are the usual way for most people to buy a home. My impression is for many Ukrainians even Credit Cards are a no go. Off course interest rates tend to be higher in the FSU even before the invasion.

So a FSW coming to the West has probably grown up in environments where borrowing money was frowned upon and told to be very cautious off. In that way they are likely to be more careful when dealing with credit. In the West though if you want something at the right time then credit can be unavoidable. You need a nice looking car to appeal to women/the woman you are with so you are not judged badly by her, guess what? You get it on credit to avoid losing out on the woman to another dude who has done just that. So you're in the game as a man and you just have to hope that your job holds out so you don't fall over your credit situation.

In the past the post FSU world after the end of the Soviet Union probably favoured women. There was probably more White Collar work readily available that the men didn't know how to do, they were trained up on Blue Collar work that disappeared after the closure of factories & industry in the immediate post Soviet world. What I argue is that here we have the reverse on the horizon, the clean white collar jobs going and blue collar jobs that tend to be more readily taken up by men becoming dominant. Women I wager won't take well to their disappearing White Collar world either.

[olgac]

What makes you think I am not financially savvy. In fairness some guys are brought up in environments where their financial thinking doesn't develop well in the West, often it may even be those from quite affluent backgrounds.

I don't mean You specifically, but in general I find very few Western men are as savvy and adaptable as FSU women
My husband excluded to him I can totally trust financially. When we met, he had zero debt, excellent credit score and I think it was 250K in his pension fund (I think at least 600K in todays money) also 6 months of salary put away for emergencies.

If You look at the saving rate and amount of debt of average americans, it's totally scary

[olgac]

In the past the post FSU world after the end of the Soviet Union probably favoured women. There was probably more White Collar work readily available that the men didn't know how to do, they were trained up on Blue Collar work that disappeared after the closure of factories & industry in the immediate post Soviet world. What I argue is that here we have the reverse on the horizon, the clean white collar jobs going and blue collar jobs that tend to be more readily taken up by men becoming dominant. Women I wager won't take well to their disappearing White Collar world either.

No it's the opposite. Most of the white collar jobs form FSU disappeared, and You needed to find a completely different way to make money. Many women for example started selling things on the market, going to China, Turkey or Poland to purchase clothes then resell at higher price. Some simply started working as cleaners. Many men thought this is all beneath them. Women adapted better. Men are stronger physically while women are more flexible, which helps them to change faster when the times change as men are more stubborn usually. In fact if You look at any poor minority/country, You will see that women do better economically! For example black women have serious problems in dating since there are much fewer hard working educated men than women in theri community

[olgac]

And I understand why Americans take credits. I just disagree. My husband even before me never had a car loan, always bought used car with saved cash. Most Americans leave one paycheck away form being homeless, no emergency saving funds, high interest credit card debt. The retirement savings are minuscule, I think mean is less that 100K. One is supposed to take about 4% a year which is what 4,000?. The social security for most Americans is less than 2K. And in many cases even a house isn't paid off because people take out money for equity line of credit.

What the plan is exactly of how they are planning to survive during retirement - I have no idea. This to me is still weird behavior many people here have: keeping up with Joneses, buying cars and houses they can't afford, getting into debt.
I only ever had a car loan once: the Lexus dealership had zero % financing

[2tallbill]

Oh and now, unlike 20-30 years ago it is so common to hear form younger FSU women that not only they don't want to work, they don't want to do house chores either as they are not a maid! It' such a common theme in all the discussion: wanting a REAL provider who not only pays the bills, but also hired professionals to do cooking, cleaning and a nanny as well so that a woman can just be beautiful and inspire her. There are even men writing who supposedly provide all that an are happy if their lady just relaxes in spas and meets friends at coffee shop and all she contributes to relationship is her love. So how many men exactly will be able to afford that??? all bill and house help

The girls can write with men who agree to all of that, but it's probably a
fantasy. +95% of men are Keyboard Romeos. They can tell a girl that
they will fly to meet them in their personal jet as well. 

Men who will marry a woman and pay for a house keeper are very rare.
Young girls don't have a ton of experience at real life. They don't always
know what is real and what is BS. Young girls can be unrealistic just like
men can.

Less than 10% of the girls get over 80% of the letters. One of those 10%
girls can think that she can write her own story in advance early on. Once
she finds that 95% of the letters were from Keyboard Romeos and none of
them got on a plane, they can become very disenchanted.

[olgac]

Yes, Bill! I agree1 Very unrealistic expectations. I think it all comes from instagram influencers or something.
I noticed these influencers don't even show their husband! Maybe he there is no husband and she is just in escort and gets gifts etc from different men

[Trenchcoat]

Less than 10% of the girls get over 80% of the letters. One of those 10%
girls can think that she can write her own story in advance early on. Once
she finds that 95% of the letters were from Keyboard Romeos and none of
them got on a plane, they can become very disenchanted.

Yeah so very true Bill. It was quite some time of being on Fdate before I realised that I was generally just messaging the most prettiest girls on there and not bothering with the rest. It wasn't 100 percent deliberate but something I did almost subconsciously without realising it. I guess the girl's pic either provoked my subconscious to say, 'she looks my type/would fit with me' or dismiss a girl as not fitting the mode of what was agreeable to me subconsciously. However, as you correctly say that most men on Fdate or whatever website it is are doing the same messaging the hottest girls that naturally provoke their subconscious too.

After a while of not getting much joy in response if any at all my subconscious got bored and broadened the search parameters for me. I ended up messaging a FSW who my subconscious still found attractive enough not to stop me messaging her even though her weight was a bit above the usual that I would go for. In the end we ended up in a long term relationship and so on and so forth.

I think Western Women have done similar to Western Men in reverse. Its just something that online dating does I think, it kind of skews things towards the photos & looks, etc rather than seeing how the person is in real life.

[Trenchcoat]

Men who will marry a woman and pay for a house keeper are very rare.
Young girls don't have a ton of experience at real life. They don't always
know what is real and what is BS. Young girls can be unrealistic just like
men can.

That's true, not sure if it's a younger FSW thing or has been around a long time. My FSW has suggested getting a cleaner to me. In general it's something I could do once a month, once a fortnight, once a week might be a push depending on amount of time paid for. I only have a small townhouse though. To my mind I think, why pay off someone for something we can easily do ourselves 🤔 To me it doesn't make sense to spend money there. I don't know how big a dream it might be in the mind of a young modern FSW. If it's a big deal then the perhaps £50-£70 a month, fortnight, etc might be worth the cost. To me though it seems silly but if it makes a hot FSW content then maybe it's worth the outlay.

More nutty though can be a nanny, a few hours may not cost a lot but some FSW think a western Man can afford to pay for one for countless days on end lol. I think a bankruptcy court hearing could follow any attempt at that one lol.

I think what makes a lot of men reluctant to get on a plane is probably the financial ability to do so. I only went to see girls who seemed interested enough in me over the course of perhaps 2-3 months. I didn't want to waste effort on a girl who seemed carefree on whether I came or not. The longer the distance generally the more cost and commitment on my part. We have to remember in all of this that the guy has bills and living costs to pay at home so travelling for many on a whim isn't what many people can do.