Trip to Tver

[rafaelph]

Trip Report  --- apologies for the spelling mistakes ... I am writing 'on the go'

hmm .... how to start?

I guess I'll state the purpose of my trip and then, based on that, I will conclude my thoughts about how I think MY trip went. 

********
(1)
I have always wanted to go to Russia ... nope, I has nothing to do with the 'Russian bride' thing ... It has more to do with me being curious: Cold War, Spies, Iron Curtain, new technology, etc, ... It was back in 1996 when I promised to myself that I will go there no matter what.

(2)
I just finished my PhD (kudos to me) last Dec-05 ... it has been a while since the last time I had a girlfriend (2001) ... things did not work out that time because I was busy and she was too (doing her PhD in Alberta) ... So after that experience I decided it was better to focus on the main task (studies), then get a job, and then get a girlfriend ....  Studies are done, the job thing did not work as good as expected in my first job .... have to look for another one ... found it ... have been working for 6 months on my new job, I love it ... the company loves me   ... so I decided to look for a girlfriend, not because I think it would be nice to have one but because I NEED one and I want to make things work and then move to next level ... of course, looking for a girlfriend was not linked to Russia at all.
********

When figuring out what would be the best way to get to know Russia I stumbled across Uncle Pasha's website

http://www.unclepasha.com    ... I was tempted to take a 'Russia Misery Trip' ... http://www.unclepasha.com/misery_russian.htm  ...

Looking around the site I found references to the Russian bride thing ...  that is how I got into this   ... I figured that I could put together both objectives  (visit to Russia and the search for my second half).

Richard's business is listed on Uncle Pasha's site as well as TverRomance. After looking at those sites and others (Elenas ??) I decided to go to Tver and use TverRomance services ... personal choice that is all.


How did the trip go?

Well, I exchanged letters with 8 women ... Just a few weeks before the trip, one of the girls told me that she was interested in another guy. I was happy for her; after all that's what we want: People finding their partners and happiness.

While in Tver, one girl stood me up ... she never showed up ... I know the agency tried to contact her but she never answered her cell phone ....

That means that out of the eight initial girls, I can report about six of them only.

[rafaelph]

Here is how the dates went (short description, not many details):

I arrived in Tver on a Saturday morning around 2am ... bloody trip it is really tiring ... There is no comparison between going to Russia and going to Central Europe ... no way!

I was up and 'running' the same day around 9:30am ... I got a call from the agency (btw the picked me up at the airport) ... 'Hi Ralph, this is XX, welcome to Tver, bla,bla ... your interpreter will be there in about 1hr ... recall that you have a meeting at 12am today' ...   So I get ready in no time and I wait for my interpreter ... she arrived on time, her name is AA (she is a cutie).

I am an easy to talk to guy, down to earth person, so right away AA gets comfortable with me ... she goes into personal questions which I do not mind ... In general, AA was wondering what the hell I was doing there  ... basically told me she was sure I could find a girl anywhere I wanted to... no need to come to Russia ... I told her that I was openminded, that I wanted to visit the country and, while there,  give the Russian bride thing a shot.

My first date, EE, arrived ... holy cow she is pretty and smart (civil engineer)  ....  but right away I new THIS WHOLE thing was not going to work. My perception (from information exchange on letters, from her video on the site, etc) was that she could hold a basic conversation in English ... Nope, not at all. We needed AA the whole time.

Although my meeting with EE went really well, I realized that there was no way I could become interested in anyone if I was unable to hold a conversation, without the interpreter, with that person.

The meeting lasted for about 90minutes; we parted and I promised her I would get in touch again (which I did). 

After the meeting I told AA that I now knew I had made a terrible mistake by getting in touch with women not fluent in English .... she agreed.


Second date (same day, saturday at 7pm).

I am looking forward to this meeting since my date (MM - Accountant ) is fluent in English and French ... she will have no trouble fitting in Canada, I thought ... I was wrong.

MM arrives and starts speaking in Russian with AA ... which is fine ... after introductions, I asked MM if she could speak in English, she tells me that she is tired and that she will speak in Russian !!!!????  ... Ok, now I am pissed (but I dont show it) ... if anyone here is tired it is me ... for god's sake I have travelled thousands of miles to see this girl and she tells me that she can't speak English because she is tired ...  give me break ... after a few minutes I politely asked her again to switch to English but she declined ... fine ... I know it ... no means no

Where to go for dinner? ... well MM suggests to go to Osnabruck (?) ... went there but could not get a table... a private party was taking place there ... so MM now says Fortuna ... ... hmm those names sound familiar (expensive places ??) ...

I did not like Fortuna ... Viking is better   (went there a couple of times) ...  I might be wrong but MM looked more like a professional dater to me ....

At the end of the date MM told me that she would love another date with me ...  yeah, right ... told her that I will get in touch with her later .... I never did while in Tver. Once back in Canada I sent her an email telling her that I did not see her as a life partner ... which is true.

When dinner was over, AA asked me if I could go back to my place by myself ... I told her that was unlikely since I had been in the city for only a few hours without paying attention about places ... told her that I would prefer if she could go back with me ... She tells me that she has to go somewhere else and that it's getting late ... I offered her to take a taxi, drop me at my place and the she could ask the driver to take her wherever it was she needed to be ... then she tells me that it will not work bla,bla ... Fine ... "just tell me how to get from here to my place and that will do it"  I said (keep in mind that I just arrived that day in the morning and that I am freaking tired and have no idea where I was) .... she says "Go straight ahead until you reach Lennin monument, then turn to the left and a block away you'll find your place"

Needless to say I got lost. The right instructions should have been ... straight ahead, PAST Lennin monument (one block) and then turn left ... so there I was lost in Tver, without papers (that morning I had given my passport to the agency so they could register my being in the city) ... my cell does not work and I don't speak Russian ....  ... No problem .... I have been lost in France, Switzerland, etc ,etc ...   so I go back to the Lennin monument and I start working around in circles covering the adjacent blocks ... after 90 minutes I found my place ... I left Fortuna around 9pm and I was back at home around 11pm ... freaking tired and mad as hell ...  I thought about calling Richard and see if a new plan could be implemented (e.g., running an ad on the newspaper to find English fluent ladies) ... "I will do that next day in the morning" I said.

Next day I got to the agency and I told them that I did not want to work with AA anymore, the reason being that  she did not go back with me to my place ..told them I got lost, etc, etc ... of course, I was polite and, by then, I was not mad at all

While being at the agency I decided to check my email ... I got the news (email) my grandfather is at the hospital .... I sent an email back asking how he was doing and then I went out to spend the day in the city trying to getting to know Tver ...

[rafaelph]

Third Date:

I was looking forward to this meeting, NN looks gorgeous and it seems her English is good (video, she saying so, etc, etc) ... We met in a cafe (??) ...  Again: no English ... though this time is different ...  during the translation process things get lost ... however, NN was really good in finding the continuation of the conversation ... eg. I am making a joke during the talk and she gets it and then comes back at me with the second part of the joke that makes the  perfect continuation of the conversation ... I loved that ...  she says that she is able to understand everything (though AA was translating everything)... the meeting lasted for about 90 minutes .. at the end, I told her that I wanted to see her again ... she told me she wanted too ... I was happy and I could see she was too ... so I got in touch with the agency to arrange a second meeting with NN but I asked them to ask NN if she was willing to go ahead without the interpreter (after all she was able to understand everything) ... I made clear that I wanted to see her only if I would be able to talk to her one-on-one ... the agency got back to me and told that NN was willing to give it a go ... because NN works in Moscow then I decided to go there to see her.

Well .. things by then appeared to start getting better.

Next day in the morning (Monday) I checked my email and I get the news that my grandfather is dead  ... no need to say you are sorry here ... he had Alzheimer's disease, so my real grandfather had been gone for some years now ...  Anyway, by then I am thinking about cancelling the trip and go back to wherever the hell I am from to see my relatives  ... I call home and I found out that he has already being buried ... what the heck? ... ... I also get a bunch of news not really good about my mother ... and about my sister ... Needless to say,  I feel that this is not the best time for travelling and enjoying myself (or trying to) ... it will be much better if I focus my efforts in fixing things at my parent's home ... Now my mind is working on solving problems while this trip and second-half-search take a very distant second place.

Fourth Date (Monday night).

(Summary) English level: Zero ... My interest: Zero ... Duration: 1hr ...


Tuesday: No dates.
I spent the day at my apartment making plans for solving some of the issues at home ... Around midnight I recalled I planned to call Richard to discuss about an alternative plan ... then and there I decided against it since I was not in the mood ... I was more into figuring out how to solve the massive problems I see coming at me from home ....

Wednesday
I woke up with a new attitude: I don't give a shit what happens to anyone else ... I'll try to enjoy the rest of my trip ... call the agency to tell them I want to go to Moscow ... So I went to Moscow with a new interpreter (S1) ...

S1 is the type of girl that I would love to date ... I did not make a move because she is attached. But I saw her a couple of times checking me out   .. She is a beautiful girl ... very feminine .... talkative ... etc ... etc. ... to bad for me she has a boyfriend. 

[rafaelph]

Thursday (Fifth Date)
Another trip to Moscow. Besides sightseeing I had to dates planned. One with QQ and the other with NN (second date) ... QQ is a PhD ... this girls is gorgeous, fluent, any guy would be crazy to let her go (assuming she is interested in him of course) .... the date went really, really well ... after the meeting, my interpreter (S2) and I talked about how well it went ... I called the agency and I told them that I would love to have a second date with QQ ... regretfully, QQ was not into me ... and that is fine; it takes two to tango.

My second date with NN did not go well at all ... it results that she never said she did not need the interpreter ... somehow the agency understood the opposite ...   I asked for the second date because I really wanted to talked to her 1-on-1  ... it did not work out that way.

Friday (Sixth Date)
(Summary) English level: Two (scale one to ten)  ..  My interest: Zero ... Duration: 1hr.

Saturday (Seventh Date)
A no show ... bastard    ... I could have used the day to go to Saint Pete instead!!!

[rafaelph]

Conclusion:

There are many, many details, events and funny things that took place while in Tver/Moscow ... I am not reporting these because those are personal and not related to the purpose of this Russian Discussion Forum. I have to say that I did enjoy my trip; I had a good time. I had the opportunity to meet, at a very personal level, two wonderful girls (two of the interpreters). In general, I would say that the agency did a nice work so no complains there.

Although I enjoyed my trip, I have to recognize that I did not achieve the other goal I had (finding a prospective partner) ... Everyone is different and though for many the use of an interpreter in dates is fine it does not do it for me.

My date with QQ was the best one though we did not clicked. However, that is the type of dates I should be looking for:  A highly educated, English fluent woman. We all know that language is the main barrier for integration in a society ... if the language is there then getting to know people, making friends, and finding a job is not a problem. I have the means and the connections to get into the job market my future partner if she were from another country (except for medical doctors ... that is going to be really tough here in Canada).

I think I might give this thing a second shot. However, if that happens then I might go my own way ... I might request a 'special' service such as having someone in Russia doing the interviews and checking that the girls can hold a casual conversation in English  ... taking untouched pictures of them ... my pics were untouched and very recent ... something I can not say about some of the pics I saw at the agency ...

Anyway, I am back in Canada and happy about my trip. No regrets. It was a good experience. If I decide to give the Russian bride a second chance then I might get in touch with Richard to set up a specific plan that might work for what I am looking for. We'll see.

[Lily]

Rafaelph, I read your TR word for word with great interest.

I have a question. Do the ladies that you meet differ in reality from the impression they made on you during yout online communication?

I agree completely with you on English fluency. I can imagine using an interpreter for business negotiations, but could never imagine talking trough the third person for the purpose of personal introduction. There are lots and lots of nuances that only two people should be able to share.

[Lily]

I asked MM if she could speak in English, she tells me that she is tired and that she will speak in Russian !!!!????  ... Ok, now I am pissed (but I dont show it) ... if anyone here is tired it is me ... for god's sake I have travelled thousands of miles to see this girl and she tells me that she can't speak English because she is tired ...  give me break ... after a few minutes I politely asked her again to switch to English but she declined ... fine ... I know it ... no means no

That sounds familiar to me as I sometimes come across people who try to learn a foreign language but succeeded only a little so far. They sometimes tell that speaking the language is a hard work for them. 

Did any of your counterparts specified to you any of your questions like ' Ralph, is it what you want to ask me ..' or ' Do I correctly understand that you want to ask me whether...' ?

[rafaelph]

Hi Lily,

All of the women I met except for one (the one that was not into me   ... funny eh? ) were not what I expected based on our on-line communication.  Of course, it is hard to make a fair assessment since the language barrier was there all the time ... it is really difficult to get to know someone if you can not share ideas on the spot ... writing is another thing.

Something clear is that the pics on the site have been 'enhanced' , which is something I find unnecessary since these women (at least the ones I met) are really beautiful ... I took me a few seconds to recognize each of them when seeing them for the first time. QQ was the exception, from far away I knew it was her; just like her pics which should be the case

On the other hand, I was told more than once that 'you look exactly as you do in your pics' ... and I'm there thinking "who the hell where you expecting to see?" 

About the conversations ... they went really well ... the interpreters did a really good job ... I was impressed with their English ... I know the Russian accent since I have Russian friends; but those girls there have no accent at all, none. I never had to re-formulate a question. Besides, the conversations where more of a continuation from our on-line exchange.

[DKMM]

That was great to read Ralph, it brought me back to Tver.  Funny how things turn out isn't it!  What were the age ranges of girls you met?  I'm guessing you are in your young 30s.

I have some things to share based on what you wrote and my own experiences there.

1)  Just because an agency is honest, doesn't mean they are useful.  So they lined up a bunch of girls that were not able to speak English well yet you told them it was a requirement.  They did not do their job if their 'terp left you high and dry like that.
1a)  Using an agency like Richard's is a better idea because he is a western man so he really knows what it takes to make it work for you.

2)  Dating Moscow women is a whole different ballgame than a girl from Tver.  I'm sure you realize that by now.  In today's Russia, they are far more picky and less inclined to try on a foreigner. 

3)  But on the other hand, no woman who is not at least engaged is off limits.  That means if your terp gives you the slightest hint (you'll know it) you can go for it, a local boyfriend can easily be forgotten.

4)  If you read enough on here, you would have seen the parts about WMVM trips and how its better to meet them all early on so you can spend more time later with the ones you like.  Wasn't an issue with you though...

You are hooked I can tell.  Most flop their 1st trip, and I guarantee you will do better next time now that you know what's going on.  Good luck!

[Rvrwind]

They did not do their job if their 'terp left you high and dry like that.

That was the part that caught my eye. My terps would never leave you to fend for yourself unless you yourself requested it. They would pick you up at your flat & take you right back there when your day is done. Anything less & they would find themselves looking for a new job.
Also I am curious about you going to Moscow to meet with ladies. Were you aware beforehand that these were not Tver women? And did you have to pay more to have the agency take you to Moscow to meet them?
I ask only because we had one of their clients come to us pretty upset because he did not know beforehand that he had to meet a couple of his chosen ladies in Moscow & that the agency gouged him for more funds to arrange for him to go there & meet them.
All our adies, no matter where they are from, are required to come to Tver to meet the men. We are based in Tver & basically a Tver agency. We have had a number of ladies from other cities inquire about listing with us but unless they are willing to come to Tver to meet the men I will not list them & I certainly won't gouge the men for more money for them to go to their city.
Glad that overall you had a reasonably good trip. A little disapointed that you didn't at least call me so we could enjoy a beer together.  A fovorite Canadian pastime, LOL

[Lily]

There would be only 3-4 hours by train between Tver and Moscow, so I see no problems for the Moscow ladies to visit the man in Tver. Not a distance by Russian standards! If they however are not willing to move their cute tidy b@tts to see him in Tver, then why bother with them al all?  Moving to the other country requires a waaaay more work and persistence from the lady. IMHO 

[Blues Fairy]

Ralph - great TR, thanks! 
I wonder how many letters and phonecalls, if any, have you exchanged with the girls before going to see them.   Your writing is excellent and you seem quite perceptive - and a PhD at that - why even consider women of different level of education who can barely hold a basic conversation in English?

[rafaelph]

Hi all,

Few points I need to make clear:

***
- The agency did not line up any girl. I was the one who got in touch with them in the first place.  All of them have videos on the agency's website; based on the video and based on what we exchange in letters, I had the idea they were able to hold at least a basic conversation in English PLUS I also thought that having an interpreter there was something I would be ok with (a colossal mistake on my part).

There was one girl, though, which I knew her English was zero .... again: I thought the translation thing would be fine for me ... nope.

Of course, I also met one who said her English level was conversational ... oh, and how to forget that one who was 'fluent' in English and French   (btw that 'Fortuna' Restaurant is overrated).

It is clear that most of these women have some knowledge of English. I am also sure that that level has helped them well for whatever it is they have needed the language. However, the level was not enough (by any stretch of the imagination) to hold a conversation.

About NN and the no-need-for-interpreter thing ... yes it was a mistake the agency made.... in my opinion, they needed to confirm that indeed NN was good enough to give the second date a go on a one-to-one chat.

A little note about education: All the women I met have a degree; one is even into a PhD. Education was there, the language was not ... for most of them anyway.

***
--The ladies I met are all from Tver. Some of them work in Moscow though. The meetings were scheduled to take place in Tver. It was me, who decided to go to Moscow ... remember: I wanted to know Russia as well ... On a day when I had no dates scheduled, I called the agency and I told them I wanted to go to Moscow;  they made the arrangements for me to go.  In both trips I left Tver around 8:00am; the first time I was back around 10pm and the second time around 1am (long story here ... funny but personal though).

If my mind had not been focused on the problems back at home, it is likely I would have planned a trip to Saint Pete and/or get in touch with Richard to launch an 'emergency' plan (or, at the very least, say hi). As I mentioned, however, I am happy about my trip. It was fun.

**
--About AA leaving me alone on my way home ... well that was wrong and I complained about it. Hope the agency makes sure that does not happen again. As I mentioned, the night it happened I was mad ... however, next day in the morning I was ok ... I still complained to the agency because I realized that, although nothing happened to me, it could have been a real problem for somebody else.

**
About myself ... well I am in my upper 30's ... I know that everyone feels younger, however, I do LOOK younger which is a major difference . None of the interpreters could not believe my real age ... the age question was kind of recurrent (??); and never being me the one starting this topic ... you know, as I Canadian, I do not feel comfortable asking those questions though I do not mind being asked about them .... Anyway, I was told I was around 28-31yold.

The ages of the girls I was corresponding are between 23-30y. If my memory serves me well, half of them made the first move (to start corresponding) when all this started.

**
If the language had not been an issue, you bet I would be with NN by now; we liked each other. Or, if the cute little interpreter I liked had not been attached you bet I would have asked her out. ... yeah, I know she has a boyfriend 'only' ...  however, I do not like to hit on someone attached ... but hey that is me; you know, old fashioned ... please, you go ahead and do your thing .

Cheers

R.-

[KenC]

rafaelph,
Thanks for sharing your trip with us.

It is unusual for a RW to overstate  her English abilities as they usually understate them.  When I first met my wife (in Tver) she brought along a terp the first time even though we had been chatting on the phone for a few months.  Reason being that #1 she was nervous and thought her English might fail her and #2 it didn't hurt to have another RW with her on the first meeting.

I have to agree that a 3 way conversation with an interpretor is awkward and uncomfortable.  How guys can start a relationship without a common language is beyond my comprehension.  It would seem that one would have to put in a whole lot of time and effort just to get to the point where they know they even like the girl.  My best guess is that the "relationship" with a partner you cannot talk with is just hormone fueled.
KenC

[Bruce]

"My best guess is that the "relationship" with a partner you cannot talk with is just hormone fueled."  Now that is a quote every go new to the process should take to heart!

Ralph, nothing against you, but its sounds like the agency raked you over the coals when it came to women.  They should have tried way harder to help you meet Miss Right.  I give them a polite ok for customer service from what you have wrote and a big fat zero out of ten trying to hook you up.  Perhaps you can clarify how they went out of their way at all (without soaking extra dollars out of you) to help you meet Miss Right.

[DKMM]

Raf,

I know what you mean when you say you enjoyed the trip anyhow regardless of the results.  It really is hard to pull this off on the 1st trip when you don't really know what its going to be like (as you illustrated by not knowing how the language gap would slow you down).

So it sounds like some could speak basic English but you need someone you can hold a real conversation with.  I can relate as its what turned me in the direction of my fiancee when faced with some decisions early on.  If you are really insistent on good English and not just basic levels, then you will be better off using no agency at all.  The reason is that girls with good English will be the only ones you get anywhere with on sites where you do all of the communication without translations like bride.ru.  Finding your own girls is an excellent way of weeding out the language gap.  There are other risks involved in doing this though as agency girls in my experience are more serious about being willing to marry and move to North America and also are far less likely to be scammers.

Going back over the winter or holding off till spring?

[rafaelph]

hmm ....

Yes, this is a tough enterprise ... just to get an idea, I checked some of the sites mentioned in this forum ('certified agencies' link) and .... yeap, the number of available girls (when looking for English fluent level women) is rather low.

If I ever give this thing another go then I would:

-Get in touch with someone (a 'representative') at the other end of wherever city it is I am planning to go.

-Run ads in the newspaper (local language and English) 'Canadian fellow looking for his second half .... bla, bla, bla ... you must speak English'

-My representative will get the info from the girls interested in knowing me ... he will also run a series of 'tests' to evaluate the language skill and pre-select the girls  ... also take a couple of pics per girl   ... of course, the pre-selected girls would be able to see my profile with pics as well.

-I, myself, will carry out another series of tests by phone ... just to be sure   ... then I will select the ones I would be interested in meeting.

-My representative will then run a 'soft' background check on the girls just to be sure we do not have 'unwanted' ladies (e.g., those interested in the money that I do not have )

-Then if there is enough material (~20 prospective ladies)  I will take the trip.

Since all this requires a certain amount of time and effort, then I guess I will not be heading to anywhere (for that purpose) in the upcoming months ... perhaps the spring. We'll see ... I have a blind date on Monday btw .

Of course, there is always the option of getting in touch with a massive agency (Elena's Models ?) where it is likely to find the volumen needed ... however, that will take the fun out this dysfunctional search


Happy Thanksgiving to all Canadians.

Cheers

R.-

[BillyB]

- The agency did not line up any girl. I was the one who got in touch with them in the first place. 

I can't stress the importance of getting on the phone with the ladies before visiting them. rafealph, it's no surprise your trip was a complete failure with the ladies. If you were prepared to fail, then you were well prepared. By you not calling, the ladies will not think you're interested enough in them. Also a phone call would've determined English ability of every woman. Thus you would have canceled all your dates before visiting and probably set up dates with women suitable for you. Not only would you cancel the dates with the women you can't hold a conversation with, you would have cancel the dates with the woman who's too lazy to speak English. Believe me, if the woman had the hots for you, she would speak any language you want anytime of the day.

[ScottinCrimea]

Some men are comfortable communicating through an interpreter (unbalanced testosterone levels?) while some are not.  It's too bad you had to take your first trip to learn what works for you.  Overall I think you did most things right for a first trip.  One thing that just came to mind that I don't think has ever been mentioned here is visiting an English language school, introducing yourself and inquiring if there are any English speaking ladies that would mind showing you around for a bit.  Most students are in their teens or twenties, but I had several classes with older adults and some were quite attractive.  They certainly would know the highest number of English speaking women and their levels of English so there would be no misunderstanding.  Some of these students would jump at the chance to practice their English with a native speaker and if things don't work out, you've had a nice guide and conversation for free with no other expectations and if things do click, you can always ask to see her again.

[Gator]

Rafael,

Well written and interesting report. 

I too went to Russia on my first trip with the two objectives of travel and romance. My results differed from yours. 

In my case I started writing women in four cities that I wished to visit and eventually made a 30-day trip to meet two of them in each city.  All spoke English, acted as combination of both guide and date, and with the exception of one no-show were wonderful women. 

I saw some interesting sights in each city, interacted with Russian families, ate their food, did their vodka toasts, and became immersed into the culture.  One RW eventually became my fiancée. 

You are smart enough to see the difference between your trip and my trip, other than mine was much longer.

So I suggest that you try again.  You can buy addresses of women from the larger agencies for much less money than using a personal service agency.  As BillyB said, the key is to get to know a woman over the telephone.  From what you say about yourself, I would guess that you would be very popular. 

No one will guide you and hold your hand other than the RW you meet.  And you will get lost briefly and probably have a problem working the door locks at your apartment.   But that is the appeal of this “go it alone” method - it is a cultural experience.  Good luck.