First trip to Russia

[vegasman]

Hello All,
I have a few questions and I am not sure if I should post them here, or if the trip section would be a more appropriate home for them. Hopefully, I won't offend anybody by possibly placing them here.

I am planning on taking Nat back to Russia for a trip this summer. As she has not been there since she was a girl, this will be a homecoming of sorts for her.

1. Her father lives in the city of Smolensk. I think we will probably visit him for 2 or 3 days at least. Is there adequate rail service from Moscow, or do I need to seek other travel arrangements? How are the trains in Russia? Are they fast and efficient like Eurail, or are they lackluster and slow like Amtrak? Any additional descriptions would be greatly appreciated.

2. Reading upon here, I have noticed that many people tend to prefer renting an apartment versus staying in a hotel. Are there any cities where the Hotels are ok? Also, how do I go about finding an apartment and how much, on average, should I expect to pay?


3. Outside of Moscow and St. Petersburg, can any of you recommend other fabulous landmarks or cities to visit while there? We are looking at being gone from 2-3 weeks.

4. I see quite a bit in the news about a resurgent sense of nationalism in Russia and a new hostility towards westerners, especially Americans. As I understand it, there is quite a rash of skinhead gangs in some of the larger cities and I watched a rather disturbing news special about the United Russia party throwing large events for the youth that seemed eerily reminiscent of old news reels of the Hitler youth prior to WWII. Her mother thinks it is foolish to go over there and is against the idea of such a trip. Tell me, should I be concerned or has this all been overblown by the media?

[BillyB]

vegasman, are you feeling lucky? You have little to worry about in Russia compared to the Communists working the Russian airports. Make sure you have all your documents in order and get your visa stamped within three days of arriving otherwise they'll put on the rubber glove and make you bend over. The media has overblown things and so have I but seriously, Passport control personel can be A$$holes.

If Nat still speaks fluent Russian, she should have little problem getting you two riding the trains in the right direction.

Google "apartments in Russia" for hotel locations and prices.

[Jumper]

My take to the general questions,

1. Her father lives in the city of Smolensk. I think we will probably visit him for 2 or 3 days at least. Is there adequate rail service from Moscow, or do I need to seek other travel arrangements? How are the trains in Russia? Are they fast and efficient like Eurail, or are they lackluster and slow like Amtrak? Any additional descriptions would be greatly appreciated.
LOL.. well lets just say the trains are an experience unto themselves..
if its a long journey i've rented a cabin out before (has bunks for 4,,but there were two of us,, )and it was inexpensive..   and i highly recommend it over the regular seating..
while the train cabins are fine, however the restrooms generally are to be avoided if at all possible,,which unforunantly isnt likely on a long trip,,,  so grin an bear it..


2. Reading upon here, I have noticed that many people tend to prefer renting an apartment versus staying in a hotel. Are there any cities where the Hotels are ok? Also, how do I go about finding an apartment and how much, on average, should I expect to pay?
personally I would diffinantly go with an apartment/flat. it's not that the hotels arnt ok, it's that for often the same or much less rate, you can have a decent flat and the conveniences that go with it.
one thing is registering your visitors visa once there,, hotels have provision for that,, while renting a flat you will need to do that on your own,,but you can find the appropriate local places to do so, and if your wife is fluent this should be no problem.

3. Outside of Moscow and St. Petersburg, can any of you recommend other fabulous landmarks or cities to visit while there? We are looking at being gone from 2-3 weeks.

4. I see quite a bit in the news about a resurgent sense of nationalism in Russia and a new hostility towards westerners, especially Americans. As I understand it, there is quite a rash of skinhead gangs in some of the larger cities and I watched a rather disturbing news special about the United Russia party throwing large events for the youth that seemed eerily reminiscent of old news reels of the Hitler youth prior to WWII. Her mother thinks it is foolish to go over there and is against the idea of such a trip. Tell me, should I be concerned or has this all been overblown by the media?
completely overblown in the media

as far as dislike for americans,, you'll be far more likely to simply be charged the foriegners rate (double) for a taxi ride..than anything else bad happen.[/b]

Mostly have fun! 

[groovlstk]

How are the trains in Russia? Are they fast and efficient like Eurail, or are they lackluster and slow like Amtrak? Any additional descriptions would be greatly appreciated.

I believe there's a high-speed line currently being constructed between Moscow and SPB, but otherwise your trip will be slow and lackluster like Amtrak, only slower and lacklusterer If at all possible go first class; 2nd class isn't so bad, at least you'll have a berth to sleep in if you're trip is long, avoid coach unless you're trip is short.

2. Reading upon here, I have noticed that many people tend to prefer renting an apartment versus staying in a hotel. Are there any cities where the Hotels are ok? Also, how do I go about finding an apartment and how much, on average, should I expect to pay?

In Moscow and SPB, at least, even three-star hotels are outrageously expensive, and if you're traveling with your wife you'll pay more if she's staying in your room. The main advantage to an apt. is the single guy's old anthem: no one will hassle him if he brings his girl back to his room. Last time I rented a flat in Moscow was nearly two years ago, I stayed just within the Garden Ring near the Belaruskaya metro stop and paid $70 per night for a nice studio, although I'm sure the current prices are higher. If you have a friend on the ground in Moscow to scout out flats for you and negotiate with the owner or realtor, you'll likely get a better price.

4. I see quite a bit in the news about a resurgent sense of nationalism in Russia and a new hostility towards westerners, especially Americans.

Complete BS, unless you have dark skin you have nothing to fear from skinheads, and the hostility towards Americans is something you'll see in our Russophobic press but not on the streets of Russia.

[I/O]

1. How are the trains in Russia? Are they fast and efficient like Eurail, or are they lackluster and slow like Amtrak? Any additional descriptions would be greatly appreciated.

Trains are old and slow, but IME they run right on time. 40MPH is about the speed but I have never arrived anywhere later than schedule. Toilets are a bit "Hows your mum" but other than than I've no complaints. Don't think Eurostar.

I have noticed that many people tend to prefer renting an apartment versus staying in a hotel. Are there any cities where the Hotels are ok?

Hotels are usually adequate but not often more unless you pay an arm and a leg. Apartments are the more economical option hence most go this way if possible. Do some booking agency searches and you should find someone who can arrange this for you.

Outside of Moscow and St. Petersburg, can any of you recommend other fabulous landmarks or cities to visit while there? We are looking at being gone from 2-3 weeks.

Just about anywhere you like to go there is something nice to see. Do some net searches on the city and nearby places and you are sure to find something of your taste.

I see quite a bit in the news about a resurgent sense of nationalism in Russia and a new hostility towards westerners, especially Americans. As I understand it, there is quite a rash of skinhead gangs in some of the larger cities and I watched a rather disturbing news special about the United Russia party throwing large events for the youth that seemed eerily reminiscent of old news reels of the Hitler youth prior to WWII. Her mother thinks it is foolish to go over there and is against the idea of such a trip. Tell me, should I be concerned or has this all been overblown by the media?

Overblown media BS. I've tracked around some pretty dark parts of Russia and never come close to having a problem. The people I know of who have had skirmishes have invariably brought it on themselves. IE: Walking out of a poker room at 3 in the morning half drunk and likely to have money in their pockets, what do they expect? Dumb bastards get themselves into trouble everywhere.

I/O

[vwrw]

The hotels there are often quite nice.  Most of us like the down home comfort of an apartment and the fact we can bring our ladies to our room with much more ease.   The security guards at the hotels can be a pain as they try to protect the extra income the hotels earn from ladies who also go to the rooms.

Other cities that you might enjoy becomes a little more challenging.   Sochi would be my first suggestion.   I also enjoy N. Novgorod and jet can tell you more about that if you consider it.

The train service is good and very reliable as long as you wear boots in the toilet.  I have a friend from Smolensk who arranges an apartment in Moscow ($ 100.00 a night) and who is a quite helpeful woman.   She may be able to help you with any problems you have and I would be happy to put you in touch with her.

If you go the hotel route, to me, in Moscow the Cosmos was always my favorite for an affordable but nice, modern hotel and in St Petersburg the Prebalskya   (I am not even close on the spelling but close enough that you may recognize it in a search.   Both hotels are not in the center but quite nice.

[Gator]

Smolensk is an interesting city.  I know from once considering making the trip there to meet a RW.  It has an old kremlin, churches and the usual, plus it is on the Dnepr River.
It is on the Moscow-Minsk-Warsaw line and thus there are several trains a day from Moscow.   The ride will take about 6 hours or so.

I would suggest first resting in Moscow for a few days and seeing its special attractions before taking the train to Smolensk.  In that way you can go to the station and buy first class tickets on one of the better trains, rather than taking potluck upon arrival. 

By the way, a train now runs from near Sheremetevo Airport to center city (thus avoiding the $70 taxi ride).  It departs every hour or so.  The details are posted in English where you claim your luggage before entering the airport lobby.  One first has to take a special bus to a suburban train station, and all is explained.

GET AN APARTMENT.   In Moscow Google on Moscow Rick.  A good (not great) hotel will cost $300 vs 100+ for an apartment, plus an apartment gives you more of a cultural experience.

As far as what else to see in Russia, it is a huge country with much to do and to see, dependent upon what you like to do (history, nature, art).  Buy a guidebook and explore it with Nat.  Have fun.

[Jazzyclassy]

      As she has not been there since she was a girl, this will be a homecoming of sorts for her.
          

am sorry  how old was she when you married her ???? :noidea: :hairraising:

[SANDRO43]

am sorry how old was she when you married her ???? :noidea: :hairraising:

Jazzy, are you going to offer useful advice on the basis of what Vegasman may reply, or are you fishing for additional material for your pet age-gap peeve ?

[vegasman]

am sorry  how old was she when you married her ???? :noidea: :hairraising:

We're not married, yet. Her mother moved their family over to the United States around the time of the collapse of the Soviet Union. I think she was around 9 and her sister was about 7. They have been in Las Vegas since 1995.

If you are interested in the age-gap question, there's about a decade between the 2 of us. She was already in this country when I met her and she had already graduated from a 4 year university. I don't think I am taking advantage of a poor girl, as her mother has already made a small fortune in Real Estate development out here. I like to think she just likes me as a person, regardless of how old I am. 

[Jazzyclassy]

Jazzy, are you going to offer useful advice on the basis of what Vegasman may reply, or are you fishing for additional material for your pet age-gap peeve ?

oh yeah Sandrino am gathering the material for my bestseller "Age Gap wonders "

As for advice, this following opinion is prejudiced and has nothing to do with Russia

    I see quite a bit in the news about a resurgent sense of nationalism in Russia and a new hostility towards westerners, especially Americans. As I understand it, there is quite a rash of skinhead gangs in some of the larger cities and I watched a rather disturbing news special about the United Russia party throwing large events for the youth that seemed eerily reminiscent of old news reels of the Hitler youth prior to WWII. Her mother thinks it is foolish to go over there and is against the idea of such a trip. Tell me, should I be concerned or has this all been overblown by the media?
            

Russia is a lovely place and a nice country, with greatest history and amazing moral values, these skinhead gangs you are mentioning here are in every country of the World, so Russia is not the only one here, I mean I do not understand if your wife is russian how she can not feel any desire and aim to visit her homeland for some holidays, what you see on TV about Russia is crap , the same as some american people here told me when I told that in America every 2 school boy is shooting his classmates in this or that state, they claimed that it is TV propaganda:P well let's believe this, so the same thing is with Russia

Russia it is not prehistoric country , well some villages though still live prehistorically unfortunately , but that is "thank you "to  our governemnt, though Russia is civilized country with its nice urban life

[Jazzyclassy]

We're not married, yet. Her mother moved their family over to the United States around the time of the collapse of the Soviet Union. I think she was around 9 and her sister was about 7. They have been in Las Vegas since 1995.

If you are interested in the age-gap question, there's about a decade between the 2 of us. She was already in this country when I met her and she had already graduated from a 4 year university. I don't think I am taking advantage of a poor girl, as her mother has already made a small fortune in Real Estate development out here. I like to think she just likes me as a person, regardless of how old I am. 

Age gap is a special topic in my list, though with this forum, I got used to anything ,just it is always interesting to meet people with huge age gap difference who are giving their own motives and reasons why they met and some how caught in love, you believe she likes you as a person, let it be so .... just no need to brag about it to my mind

I just think we are living in a messed up World, very corrupted one, with its false values and strange Faith somebody undercover is spreading into mass, but surely this thing will stop, not now,  but maybe 30 years later , I hope so very much

I posted my comment before reading yours, so did not know she was living there being as a child,  in this case , you need to pay for expensive hotel and surround her with luxury as she might be really in shock with Russia in comparison her life in blessed  America

[vegasman]

Age gap is a special topic in my list, though with this forum, I got used to anything ,just it is always interesting to meet people with huge age gap difference who are giving their own motives and reasons why they met and some how caught in love, you believe she likes you as a person, let it be so .... just no need to brag about it to my mind

I just think we are living in a messed up World, very corrupted one, with its false values and strange Faith somebody undercover is spreading into mass, but surely this thing will stop, not now,  but maybe 30 years later , I hope so very much

I posted my comment before reading yours, so did not know she was living there being as a child,  in this case , you need to pay for expensive hotel and surround her with luxury as she might be really in shock with Russia in comparison her life in blessed  America

Well, maybe she likes me for my rugged good looks and high level of intellect. Nope, I don't think that's it. 

As messed up as the world seems to be at times, I think it is important to remember all of the things that are right in it. It's not all doom and gloom. There has always been a certain amount of corruption in the world and I think it will always be with humanity to a certain degree. We really can't control other people's actions, we can only control our own.

[Jazzyclassy]

I absolutely agree we can not control the others , we should control our own actions first, that is true, though when you are surrounded by  those who easily adopt some fake values throwing away real ones, there is no other way but to come out and stand your own ground and never ever let them make you feel humiliated
well but that is another story

I am telling you Russia is a very nice place to visit, yes it is expensive but where will you find the country who will be cheap? even Turkey is not that cheap , so it is always expensive to travel

[vegasman]

Jazzy,
As a Russian, where would you recommend visiting? We intend to visit SP, Moscow, and Smolensk, but where else would you recommend? I would like some places where I could get a good feel for the country.

I never intended to make any disparaging remarks concerning Russia. If that was how you took it, then I apologize. When stories like the following appear about things like the Nashi movement and other similar activities, I do become a little concerned. I would be concerned if one of the political parties in this country were doing this with young people. Of course, the media has been known to blow things out of proportion. If you say that is the situation here, then I will believe you.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/08/world/europe/08moscow.html

[Jazzyclassy]

well I would recommend Golden Ring of Russia


http://www.russia-travel.com/tours/goldenring/

[Jazzyclassy]

there is no need to apologise

I would recommend the golden ring of Russia

http://www.russia-travel.com/tours/goldenring/

http://wnights.com/journeys/russia/the_golden_ring_of_russia/

http://www.firebirdtravel.com/golden_ring.php

[Gator]

Jazzy.

you believe she likes you as a person, let it be so .... just no need to brag about it to my mind

FYI, Vegasman never did brag.  He only mentioned the history with Nat after you started hunting for witches, and their history is indeed interesting.

I just think we are living in a messed up World, very corrupted one, with its false values and strange Faith somebody undercover is spreading into mass,

The only world you know is Russia.  And yes Russia is very corrupt.  But not so bad that one should avoid it for a temporary visit.  Living there is another matter. 

"Somebody undercover"?  It is Russian politics and Russian mentality, and both are very visible and intrenched.  It would be interesting for Nat to experience this firsthand and be thankful even more to her mother for leaving the Soviet Union and looking for something better, which it seems she did.

but surely this thing will stop, not now,  but maybe 30 years later , I hope so very much

Is that when you expect Putin to die.  He may last longer than Castro.

[chivo]

If you intend to visit St. P, Moscow, and Smolensk you'll get a good feel of the country.

If you're coming in the summer only for 2-3 weeks you're not going to have time to visit too many other places.

You have plenty of time to do some searching to find the best deals on things.

You can preorder train tickets from America also, but be careful on pricing. Here's a decent link.
http://www.nevsky88.com/Transportation/Train/default.asp

Moscow Rick is OK, but you can find similar places in Moscow for quite a bit cheaper, but an apartment is definitely the way to go. Piter will be about the same price in the summer, and its easy to google good sites to help you find your way. When in Moscow you'll want to stay inside the 'Circle Ring'.

As for rides from the airport, if your lady speaks Russian (I'm assuming she does) you can prearrange a very nice taxi for around 900rubles anywhere around the center from SVOII. Message me and I can give you their direct phone number you can call from America. While you can get around cheaper, I think you'll find this the most convenient way, especially if its your first time here.

I can also say that you will find the Russians to be quite hospitable and proud of their country. As was also mentioned, don't believe what you read from the western press, just relax and enjoy the ride. Good luck.

chivo

[Gator]

Vegasman,

Jazzy is correct, the Golden Ring is interesting.  However, you will see much of the same in Smolensk.

Chivo is correct about the time and he has lived in Moscow for a fairly long time.  You easily can spend a week in St. Petersburg alone. 

In St. Piter I have a 45-yo RW friend who is a professional guide for the Hermitage (she is good and is called in by the Russian government for state department visits).  She would give you and Nat an excellent,  private tour for $20/hour (free admission) and in the evening show you her city’s nightlife for free.  She has traveled throughout Russia and would have some ideas.  Please PM if you would like her name.  Do go to the Marinsky Ballet theater.  If only a few tourists such as yourself in the audience,  you will feel the Russian soul as the ballet unfolds and the audience responds.

You may wish to contact the RWD member Rvrwind who owns a marriage agency in Tver, between St. Petersburg and Moscow.  Besides arranging introductions between men and women, he also arranges excursions for tourists. I am not sure what he would suggest, but being a Canadian and living there, he would have some ideas.

If you are looking for a remote experience, you may want to go to the Solovetsky Archipelago (SOLOVKI ISLAND)  situated in the White Sea near the city of Arkhangelsk (a 24-hour train ride north of St. Petersburg).  I almost went and was convinced that this would be an interesting excursion.  You can also fly.  At night in the summer …well there is no night.   

Besides seeing the tourist sights, it is even more important to experience the people and the culture.  You need to do a picnic, participate in a banya, buy some fresh fruit and dairy products at a market, etc.  Do not surround yourself in luxury because you would miss getting to experience and feel firsthand Russian people.   Nat’s father will be able to do much of this for you.

There is much to see and you have time to plan.  Just start surfing for different options and return with some ideas.  We will comment without criticism.