Putting a face on a name.

[Makkin]

Hello,

  My trip to Kiev for the new year was good to say the least and the most interesting part of it all was meeting people from the board here and those people you read about here. My trip actually put a face on a name in many cases.
  Simoni and his wonderful wife were a real pleasure to meet in Kiev and they were nothing but helpful and caring to me. I appreciate the way there wonderful personalities came through in such a genuine manner. In no way could anyone ever say that Simoni was a loser or anything close as he is a very big winner in all categories.
  Jack was as cool as I imagined him and he is a sort of combat-boots on the ground kinda guy..lol He seems to articulate reality in Kiev with something similar to a businessman with a plan and at the same time a plan you may never figure..lol
  I missed Mir as he was still in another country and could not catch up with him in Kiev as he came to Kiev as I departed but we communicated those facts and understood the situation. Would have liked to meet him but I should return in May or earlier?
  All in all it was great to be in Kiev and also great to meet those persons that I was able to meet as well as many people from other parts of the world. Makes a good trip when you make new friends.

Makkin

[Simoni]

Makkin,

Marina and I also enjoyed meeting you.  You are a likable, honest and sincere guy and we know that you will in time meet the right girl for you. 

In Kiev, Marina was glad to help you out and was quick to read one of the girls you were meeting with.

As for me, I enjoyed the beer and coffee and conversation.  We look forward to seeing you in Ukraine or Florida or Texas sometime in the future.

I've met a lot of RWDers and liked them all.  Hmmm... a lot?  Let me count....

Marina and I know (have met in person) TEN members of RWD.   It was our good fortune.

[Makkin]

Hi,

  It was really nice to meet you and Marina because it was very relaxed and easy to be with you. I recall when we were all holding arms and I hit some ice and would have gone down had it not been you on the left and Marina on the right..lol It was the only time I lost my footing(on the entire trip) and as luck would have it you two kept me on my feet.
  Thanks to Marina I did pass on one lady and won't go into detail but her keen sense(Marina) made perfect sense and it proved to be a good decision for her to become involved even though it was not really like that. She was able to gather one bit of info that explained everything and in this case sealed my suspicions and the door was closed on my end...THANKS Marina..lol.
  I want to thank you again for also the introduction to Pavel. He was really nice and looked to be every bit the gentleman and professional that I've heard he is. Sometimes it's better to meet a person and get a feel for them rather than to jump to assumptions and "he say-She say"..lol If I needed a guide I'd call him in a flash and trust his valuable references from those who attest to them.
  Wanted to do a trip report but not sure if anyone wants to hear another one?..lol

Makkin
 
 

[BillyB]

  Wanted to do a trip report but not sure if anyone wants to hear another one?..lol

Go for it Makkin.  I'm sure it'll be interesting since you met other people from the board. It's especially good to know Marina has the strength to hold you up after what she's been through! Don't make a habit of holding on to Simoni's arms too much, he's spoken for.

[Jazzyclassy]

Hey dear Makkin so nice that you had a lovely time in Kiev and met members of RWD there that is always great

maybe you have pics you could post them here if wanted to

[Makkin]

Trip Report



  Arrived in Kiev airport and was three hours late due to Ukrainian Airlines NOT letting me board the final leg of my flights. They told me my ticket was not good but so far it had been good from Houston to Atlanta and then Atlanta to Amsterdam. I had two hours to try and catch the Ukrainian Airlines flight so I went from one place to the other and each time Delta told me the ticket was perfect. Each time we talked with Ukrainian Air they insisted it was not good. In the end I was given another ticket on KLM and also given a free phone call to let Jack's helper(Bill) know I would not be there till 5.30pm and the party with the girls in Kiev began at 7pm..lol.
  Finally I arrived in Kiev and as you might guess I arrived with no luggage because Ukrainian Airlines broke the rules and sent my luggage on their flight without me personally but for some reason was no place to be found. I did the taxi walk upon arrival where you get asked 100's of times if you need a taxi and you are in the midst of real sharks to one degree or another. This may be interesting for first timers and they should prepare for the experience upon arrival. Since my driver was no place to be found I waited maybe 20 minutes in the prescibed place that I was told to wait and then I borrowed a cell phone from a man and called Bill. He arrived in the airport a few minutes later and we were off to the party minus one stop where I took a wiz behind an old building that had a few drifters/homeless persons close to me and it seemed they had a place to stay in an old beaten up bus that sheltered them from the cold. It was very cold indeed and they seemed to be moving a bit to stay warm. I figure that my wiz was in record time and off we were to the party.
  Arriving at the party we ran in at a fast walk pace and after 23 hours of travel and problems already discussed it was time to meet the ladies without rest/shower/shave...etc...I did get to stop at my apartment and drop off my carry on and take and use the bathroom but to my amazement I dropped a terd the size of Montana and flushed as Bill came to me quickly to inform me we were in the wrong apartment and that explained the slippers I was gazing at just before I dropped that Montana burger. Off to "my" apartment we went and dropped my carryon for the second time. Wonder what the guy might have thought when he came home or got out of bed and smelled my deposit that I rudely left him? Maybe he would be baffled indeed because as I recall there was a smudge of evidence and that alone might leave him wondering for the next day or so?
  Okay now I walk into the party and am amazed at the large amount of women who are already at the tables and I'm just in time to sit and ask/answer/think/deliberate and just get my shite together for the next few hours. Questions fly from all directions and my interpreter who I have yet to meet is running the low down to the ladies as I explain myself in as much detail as possible and with the best effort I can give due to the tired mind and body which I have to deal with. Luckily for me I'm honest so I don't have to worry about anything be gone over and not getting right..lol Believe meas other have explained these women are detectives and do take notes and evaluate you from the git go. It makes very good sense to be honest because if your not the ladies will probably have each others phone numbers and call each other to check notes. Actually they did this with me and others and they had a lot of information on me before we even had our first date and it was information only other girls that I'd already dated would know. My weakness is I remember everything you tell me for 20 years but please don't write it down because I'll forget it...This ability has afforded me ways to tell when lie's are told and also afforded me to say little when I easily find a lie because if I have to go into that then it takes a long course to explain why and how I know it's a lie or mis-understanding..lol. Later on I will explain how I spotted a scammish deal but had to explain to her the details and she agreed but later she explained it away..lol The red flag was so big that the flagpole was bent from the pressure.
  Going from table to table to table with the girls seemed fun at first but later turned into broken record in my head as I repeated the same information and adjusted it in variations to make it appear fresher. My interp. was good enough to just explain everything after three tables and then questions flew from left to right and center. The girls were very nice and they explained themselves and the life they lived as I did. I had an instant attraction to one lady and later followed up with her and we went out twice. I had an instant attraction with another lady at the party and we danced but I blew that one out my arse as I got her a cab and went to get my coat and hers but literally blew out a another Montana when I somehow did not put her coat on her first before putting mine on. I took my coat back off myself and then put her's on her as she gave me a look of restraint and good manners but I could see I'd failed a simple test due to my tired situation and my lust all intact in one big Montana. I took her to the taxi and all looked good as she drove off but in the back of my mind I knew I had blown that one.
  Going back into the party I noticed the girl who had the instant attraction and I could tell she was waiting for me to come back and talk to her. I talked for a few seconds and realized we could not converse very well so my interp. helped and we had phone numbers and such to set things up. She forgave me for my stupidity but I knew I had to get some rest before I really started to stink things up...lol
  My impressions of the party are good but I was so tired that it seemed as if I would not be able to remember things the way I needed to and that in fact would be the reason I had to short-cut my dates and only concentrate on 4-5 ladies in eight days. Remember that these ladies network and what and how you do things is broadcast for the dating audience as I have learned..lol Since a lady came to my apartment after a first date then this means she could be accused and so could I of breaking the norm or three date rule but we did nothing but watch television and also look around my place as well as help me to learn how to use the clothes washer and dryer. I cooked some sausage as well as made a few meals on my stay and I never wanted to confuse the ladies with visiting my apartment as anything but a visit but you know how that goes..lol
  Day one was over and day two started with a trip to the market where I bought food and such to cook. Later in the day my interp. called to ask if I needed help buying food and stuff like that but I told her thanks I've got it already and she was nice to offer the help. Luckily in my luggage I had food items but I had no luggage but a few days later I got hold of my food package and I was all set. In the market I bought four giant oranges as well as Ukrainian bacon and also sausage. I got other fruits and some sugar freeish cookies to eat on and was set for three days as far as I could tell. It made sense to me to get food in the fridge early because later I'd probably not want to mess with it and that proved to be true.
  December 27th was still day two and I had arranged a date with a woman who was at the second speed dating table at the party. She is a Scientist/Dr./works at the medical institute.(we talk by email now) Our date involved walking around Kiev for thirty minutes until we found a decent place to eat where she had shrimp and I had a well prepared medium size fish. The food was really good and my fish was very tasty so I ate it all the way to nothing but head and bones and she had a taste of it as I had one of her shrimps. We shared my vegeatbles until there was nothing remaining as we enjoyed the food washed down with only water and conversation. She had an ongoing conversation with the waitress that caused the young girl to become a bit miffed but I could not figure the deal as my Russian language is not so good. Seems that from the body language the poor waitress had to be lectured a bit on many details of the serving process in an effort to afford me the knowledge that my date knew how to handle the waitstaff. I will be damned if I could figure out what it was all about..lol
  Lena the scientist type is a mother of a daughter who has been to Western Europe on scientific seminar type meetings and used the food allowance of one trip to purchase a nice winter jacket and probably ate little or less than she should have on one trip as she told it while laughing. Her english speaking was fluent so LUCKILY we did not need the an interp..lol. All in all it was a nice date and ended on the steps close to my apartment and also close to TGI Fridays where many Americans met ladies as I noticed in coming days. Unluckily for me I called her back only to get a wrong number recording that kept me three days out from talking to her because of my stupidity with number codes in relations to phones and usuage of city codes and all that. Later we finally got back together but even asking my ointerp. to call her yielded no results and by accident I easily figured how to call her.Hmmm..wonder why my interp. could not get her on the phone..lol
  Anyway it was the end of day two and I had my first date under my belt and date two was on the third day.

  To be continued if anyone is interested..lol

Makkin
 

[Makkin]

Day three on December 29th of 2007,


  I suppose it would be best to say that a Zen master might tell me at this point how things would go for day three in Kiev with a history of lost luggage and delays already stacking up and causing the most valuable happenings that have already taken place to in actuality force the future to take the turn it has already prescribed. The Zen master would tell me in short and sweet fashion.."we shall see".
  Walking in the cold on day three I looked up and noticed an office building or rather a building of offices that advertised airline companies and as I looked I was lucky to notice Delta Airlines and crossed the street to enter the building and take the lift to the seventh floor where I'd locate the people with Delta who would locate my luggage and give me a lift to the airport and retrieve my big bag of food and clothes. This office was very very close to TGI Fridays as well as my apartment so luck seemed to be on my side. Later in the week myself and Simoni made the same trip there to see if we could get help with his luggage also. All in all day three was looking better.
  After having set up my belongings in the apartment and feeling better about things I called a girl who I'd met at the party and we made plans to meet at the TGI location and have a date. This date would be one date of three and would have us meeting at 530pm and eating dinner at a reasonable place where the total price came to only 45 USD for both our food and drinks. During the date we talked about many things but I had a feeling this lady was a bit aloof but she did offer one quality that helped in that she spoke fluent english and she was easy to communicate with. For the second date in a row I had not needed an interp. and this was a bonus in savings as well as a better atmosphere for us both in my opinion.
  My date here was 27 years old and myself being 48 had caused my gut feeling to be that she was too young to start with but we were on a date and whatever happened could be managed with honesty and the approach of sincerity on my part. I mentioned twice in the first date that I thought my age was a big issue in that I'm 21 years older and learned that she dated older men so it was not a problem(in her opinion) but still it was a problem to me in that she had less life experience in regards to no children and had never been married as far as she had told me. Her beauty was somewhat original and different but if I were to grade her from the outside then her qualities would probably be average in my opinion and that was fine with me.
  Okay so the hook for the trip is the cab fares and the phone charges for the girl and one should be aware that when dating during these econmic times that the girl will need transportation money as well as phone money in order to maintain the contacts and meetings. In many cases I'm sure a man could spend more on a cab than on a meal or at least he could hand over that much and not really be sure..lol I believe the 17% inflation for Ukraine in 2007 would be an accurate indication that prices will be higher for things. Soooo..the red flags appeared on day one with this average girl and also appeared on the next two dates as the ante came up and I mixed in a few tests on my part to check to see if I was in a fleece situation.
  After dinner of the first date with the average girl we visited my apartment as mentioned earlier and she did tell me that no sex would take place but she would come inside and visit. I agreed and made no attempt to break the conditions of the visit and learned how to operate my washing machine to a small degree except for the dryer part where I exhausted my methods and went to drying the clothes on the metal pipes that inhabited my apartment. This worked fine and I had clean clothes for the whole trip and when I departed my clothes were all clean and tidy for my exit home using this method.
  We drank tea and coffee and talked as the television was on and the volume was low. We sat close and somewhat intimate but the feeling was that of a staged affair to me so I was using the body language method as well as the words to approach the subject of intimate actions. I learned that she had been to the USA and that in itself was another interesting point that would later be more than just that. Seems she had been in the midwest for nine days and decided to depart back home to Ukraine for fear of guns and vodka. Her fiance had a drinking problem and very many guns and this made her nervous to say the least. He had only taken her to see the area on one day and worked the other days during her short stay in America. His age was descibed at 39 and her age at the time was 25. Later in my trip his age from info from other girls was growing from 39 to 58 and the last report was 66 so before I knew it there were many contridictions mounting. In any case she departed back home and was looking for work inerp. for others but was a member of the party tour in any case. The visit was good and the date was good so we planned another date for the next day.
  December 30th I had wanted to go on a date with a lady I'd danced with at the party but I flopped on her jacket and this did not impress her so I was informed that she was not as interested as it had originally appeared. She was way too beautiful for me to start with and my small brain was in charge when I first met her and even after I told myself twice at the party that she's too good looking for me. Her age of 37 was okay but my big brained failed to listen and in the end the truth of the matter was that I was right but failed to listen to myself...lol So off I was again with the average girl because I could not manage to use the phone right to call the scientist and make a second date where she had invited me to a different party on new years eve (this would cause me to miss Jack's party) Failure to use the phone properly had caused me to narrow again my field and take into thought that maybe she was not interested in me. Later I would find out that she was and is...So confusing it was to make a simple call to her due to city code and country code things.
  I date the average girl again and we go to TGI Fridays where we have a good meal and in this case we have a drink or two. The only time I drank during the trip is when I go out with her there at Fridays and later notice the three vodka shots I drink (sipped them for an hour) cost almost as much as the meal. She had the martini drinks and used a straw which caused me to think but not speak as the straw was very large and her drink was very small. You had to view the process of her drinking a martini with a large straw that would not balance in the glass as she tried in vain to make it look normal. I felt better to let her drink the way she chose but in the end the akward effect never seemed to deter her from that straw.
  Before the date I learned how to call home and my daughter. It was a simple process and cost about two dollars to make the two minute call. During the date I asked her if she could show me how to call home on her phone and let me pay her for the call. She could not tell me how to call on my phone but it could be done on her phone as she told me it would cost 60 Ukrainian dollars to do so. Of course I knew that her price for the call but I went ahead and played it out with her by making the call on her phone and then paying her 60 or 15 USD. After making the call I simply made another call to my parents as we sat and ate on my phone as she watched me closely and with attention to what I was doing. My smile was genuine and my chatter with my mother was good. After telling my mom I loved her I then put down the phone and we talked about the price of phone calls..lol
  It seems she had an excuse for charging me so much and it was because the cabs are so expensive and she did not want to ask for a lot of money for a cab later. I responded that I was gonna pay for her cab as originally agreed on so why would she be worried about it. She then tells me because on our last date I had given her what she asked for cab fare and it was not enough and by getting the 60 for the phone call then it would even out..lol At this moment I would probably be told to exit stage left and to not ever go out with her again but I wanted her to go to the new years eve party so possibly she could meet other girls and maybe other men? Who know right...
  Okay so during dinner we had talked about being intimate and how people are naturally that way. I did the talking at first and explained that I felt she was not very intimate about me and that I would feel it from her naturally if there were those type feelings. Her answers were mainly about definition and what the word means so a dictionary was found later and she understood. At my apartment that evening I felt some of what we had discussed but sold in one way I was but sold in another I was not. She was intimate but it seemed as if her feelings may have been associated with her age or sexual experience. NO sex took place but Bill Clinton is the reason why dictionaries are not as good as they used to be for definition.
  I paid for the cab and off she went as tommorow would be the Jack Party and also the night where cab fares were double and a begger woman would attempt to place me in a grip for cash..lol

[Makkin]

 I apologize for the sloppy writing.

Makkin

[Makkin]

December 31st


  My dates have happened and I missed one but I will maybe put it in later.
  Today I am meeting the averafe girl to go to the Jack Party at a friends apartment. Jack's party was in his friends apartment which was located very close to McDonalds at the main square of Kiev or about 1200 meters from the big Christmas tree.
  I awoke early as usual and went to Jack's to see things and also I helped a little bit by providing instant coffee and instant cream for the party.
  My date arrived on time and we went to the party which began at 9pm or so and slowly people made the way into the apartment for the party. There was wine and four bottles of Cognac as well as red caviar and some wine. There were four chickens if I am right about that but I did not stay late and made my way out around 11.45 as to celebrate in the streets near the tree and enjoy the people as they celebrated the new year.
  I met some members of the tour for the first time and was interested to meet a father and son who were both meeting ladies on this tour. The party seemed a bit flat for me as I did not drink except for a plastic cup of champagne and also ate a blini type food product. I heard the party ended about three AM but by that time myself and date were at my apartment and we celebrated the new year with the company of ourselves.
  My date in many ways had decided that tonight we would become an afficial item but I steered away from that because I really felt this would be our last meeting due to he ways of money and such..lol She had asked me if I was stingy and I replied with something similar to "why would you ask me that"? She wanted me to understand that she could not tolerate a stingy man for basic needs and such things but in my mind this was a third date and I was not asking for marriage and anything near that. She went on about how much the taxi would cost later and I told her I have it covered. Funny how money was always getting to be the subject of sorts. Sooo..after getting close to each other and then walking her to the taxi I made sure she had enough for the ride home. 60 dollars seemed to be enough for tonights cab ride and since the fares were double tonight??? she should have extra for a new pair of socks or something...lol
  January first came around and I had set up two different dates for January 2nd. My first order of business was to get the message to the average girl that we were not gonna make it as a couple due to age difference as well as red flag issues. I call her and tell her honestly that we won't be going out anymore because she is too young and I am feeling that we are not made for each other. She asks for other reasons but I'm polite to only say that she is too young. She calls me back three times to get further infor in a business manner as to why I have decided this and politely I explain that we are too far apart in age. She continues to ask "what is the other reason" I reply "There is no other reason". She is not satisfied and keeps calling back wanting to know what I know or what she thinks I know but I have nothing to tell her. In the end she gets her friends to call me before my departure and attempt to arrange a final date but I refuse. It was a weird experience to watch this happen but in my heart of hearts she wanted money in exchange for whatever and the game got old and her credability was lower and lower as time passed.
  Finally I was dating a 37 year old with a good heart and mind. pleasures are her forte. We dated twice and had fun each time we met and she also came to my apartment and everything was very fine. We are writing and speaking now and along with the scientist as they are both affording me the ability to know them better.

  I had an experience of meeting for a date through an agency that was associated with the tour but it cost me dearly to meet one woman. I spent 200 on the interp. and then 30USD fee to meet and then 30 USD for her travel expenses to meet me. So I spent roughly 100USD to meet one girl for two hours and then bought food to boot...lol I suppose after that one experience I made sure to never do business like that again. A man at Jacks party mentioned that he spent 35 for the fee and I told him our prices were diffewrent and he figured it well. He had the attitude like me in that beware is all you can do here..lol
  Yea it's a nickle and dime hustle no matter how you look at it and in no way will you want to mention too many events like this as it may make you appear to be a fool with your money. I suppose many men don't want it known that they were parted with there cash because they trusted or believed they had the situation figured. Easy for me to say I made a few mistakes like this but not enough to matter or make the same mistake twice..lol
  I would personally not tell men to take a tour method because in the long run your not really gonna do much better than a personally planned trip. Fee's as well as extra fee's will add up and in the long run your schedule may be affected. Pro daters could be a problem for a novice as a way to part your money on gifts or such things. It's easy to spend money on the girls and not a bad idea as long as your in charge of your money and you decide how and when to spend it. Tours are set up to organize it seems but if you try then you can organize and use your money for what you see fit yaaaa???..lol

  Honestly the New Years Eve party did not have a lot of happy faces in my opinion. Maybe it was location or maybe it was the happiness of the men on dates? The ambiance was somewhat similar to arriving at the apartment and seeing people come in and leave on a regular basis. I think mainly that most members of the tour just stopped by and touched base with party and departed and it seemed the paerty did not have a personality or something. I talked with six of the members as I sat next to them and the feeling I was getting was that it was not what they expected or at least I was told twice by different members...

Makkin

[Makkin]

Overall opinion....

  The tour set up for the first party was a fun event that yielded many prospects and also pro-specters..lol It was an organized event that would have you meeting many women if you decided to do so.
 
  Getting into gear was easy enough for me but it did have bad moments because I am cell phone stupid and the country codes and city codes messed up my ability to organize anything properly until I figured the exact way to use the phone and phone numbers. "damn shame" when someone can figure out many things but cannot handle a cell phone and that's me in a nutshell.

  Dated five different women in eight days and have two steady contacts so far for a future trip so not all is lost but as mentioned earlier the zen master would say "we shall see".

  What I learned is that wherever you go always be prepared to take care of yourself rather than have someone hold your hand. I've always been this way and it's always saved me time and money. I walked everywhere I went except one occasion where I took a cab for dinner and this saved money to an estimated tune of about 100-300 as a general guess. You can see more when you walk so it's better for me to not use a cab unless it's needed to save time.
  One thing that has changed for me is being stopped by people and having them ask me directions. Last March in Odessa nobody ever asked me for directions but this trip I must have been asked five or six times and also spoken to as if I understand the language well on many many occasions. I replied with excuse me but I speak only english and I was able to speak those words in Russian so my small studies paid off.
  Seems to me no matter how it goes I always learn something new and now I blend in very well and feel very comfortable amongst the populace as never before. It must be that the faces and mannerisms are readable in a simpler way for me and my body language is easily readable for the natives unlike my first visit(Moscow) where I seemed awkward and somewhat out of whack..lol
  Jack is a good fella who arranges the adventure for those who will benefit from the experience for a first time visit but for me it's solo-joe from now on unless I meet up with someone from the states or Europe who will be in the same mental capacity and interests. Yessss thats it I no longer need to be learning the basic basics and can now move onto the basics..lol

Makkin
 

[Gator]

Makkin,

I don't normally read T/Rs; however, I injured my back and have had no golf for a week.  Going crazy.

Don’t know why your T/R has not received any responses.  Perhaps people were turned off by your early explanation that you are not anal retentive.

Some comments:

She calls me back three times to get further infor in a business manner as to why I have decided this and politely I explain that we are too far apart in age. She continues to ask "what is the other reason" I reply "There is no other reason". She is not satisfied and keeps calling back wanting to know what I know or what she thinks I know but I have nothing to tell her.

This girl really liked you, but she did not do it for you, and that is what is important.  Her focus on dollars was not out of line because these women do worry about whether her man will take care of her if she moves to America.   She already had one bad experience with an American fiancée.  Strange about her lies about the man’s age – why would the other women tell you the truth?  Nevertheless, your title for her, “average girl”, says you were feeling nothing even after a sympathetic BJ.  Evidently UM don’t like her either as she was available at short notice for New Year’s. 

I suppose many men don't want it known that they were parted with there cash because they trusted or believed they had the situation figured. Easy for me to say I made a few mistakes like this but not enough to matter or make the same mistake twice..lol

The name of the book is not “Meeting UW on $100 per day”.  It should be “Have Fun Meeting Beautiful and Interesting Women.”   Money will be spent.  To worry about little expenses is pennywise and pound foolish.  Nevertheless, gimmicks to separate a man from pocket change says that the woman is insincere – she knows better.

I met some members of the tour for the first time and was interested to meet a father and son who were both meeting ladies on this tour.

Where was his bride, VWRW?

One thing that has changed for me is being stopped by people and having them ask me directions.

Russian and Ukrainian people are always asking directions.  They are so terrible at reading maps that they don’t even try.  Mind boggling to me.

Dated five different women in eight days and have two steady contacts so far for a future trip so not all is lost.

Good, but you could have done that with letter writing and phone calls, and have many more women initially to choose from.  However, if these two women really do it for you, then the trip is worth it.

I

would personally not tell men to take a tour method because in the long run your not really gonna do much better than a personally planned trip….What I learned is that wherever you go always be prepared to take care of yourself rather than have someone hold your hand.

I concur.  This is your third trip to the FSU (Moscow and Odessa before).  Were the other two trips solo or tour?  What influenced you to do a tour?

[Makkin]

Hello Gator,

  The main reason I wanted to do a tour was to see the difference and the possibility to meet several girls at a party setting. This was achieved but due to the oraganization of the tour the results were a bit mixed to saye the least.
   The tour itself was not what many of the men expected and myself included but I had hopes of meeting women and was not too invested in the idea of meeting all the men on tour.
   I met a large amount of the men on the tour and also met Simioni as well as his wonderful wife Marina. This was a great experience and also I tried to meet Mir but we never made that happen due to his being out of Ukraine at the time I was there.
   
   Let me just say that IMHO the tour was a mistake except for the meeting of two wonderful women and get to know them better. The guys I met were really not happy with the organization and at times they seemed lost,confused,etc... It was as if they had no response in words to the tour except snips of info that all you could do in response was bob your head up and down in agreement as you looked at your shoes. At the same time the plastic cup of champagne was being passed around as eye contact went from one shoe to the other..lol One respected gentleman of the tour stated.."This is far from what I expected"..My response was a look that explained my agreement and understanding. It was as if nobody had much to say but their body language said it all and there was nothing missed in that.
  Yes,...Don't take the tour is my opinion and don't pay for what you can mostly do yourself. If you or anyone has any questions in concern to my tour experience then please amail me at...

RabertAAA@hotmail.com

Makkin

[Gator]

Makkin,

I have never been on a tour and frankly saw no need for one because I have always been resourceful and adventurous.   Yet, many men opt for a tour.

Cost was also a consideration with me.

You have travelled solo to the FSU and you have taken this recent tour.  What is the difference in cost between this tour and doing essentially the same on your own?  Were there hidden costs (costs for something important but not included)?

The big difference to me is that going solo you would not have a social.  Yet, a social can be replaced simply by reviewing the profiles of UW at a Kiev agency and paying them a fee to arrange a meeting. 

It is not exactly apples vs. apples.  Many might say that a private initial meeting is more comfortable than a social. 

When in Kiev two years ago, I did that with Kiev Connections after bombing with a prearranged woman.  KC arranged three good meetings for me the next day for a cost of $25.  So I had one down day, and then back to the races.

Cindy Agency in Dnepropetrovsk will arrange the meetings for free if you have written at least three letters to the woman.   Agencies also provide other services such as apartments and terps.     

[Makkin]

Gator,

  It's a very good way that you explained and if it works in that you meet a lot of women then you probably will save money doing it the way you did versus a tour type situation.
 
  The tour methods seem to be worked on the basis that you pay a fee for the parties and or socials where you meet many women and in a setting that is arranged by the tour operations and such things as you already know. My fee was equal to about 45 agencey arranged meetings if I were charged 20 dollars for each meeting. The social lasted about three hours and speed was the name of the game as there were a lot of ladies to choose from. All in all the time spent and the effort made by the tour guests was key because after this social there was no going back if you will. The next option for you after the social was to visit an agent where a new fee would be arranged as I discussed earlier and you basically start from scratch again.
  I would agree that the best method would be to arrange meetings through some type of communication and set up your trip on those ladies you have come in contact with via the internet or some other form of meeting. In doing this you will save the fee's you would have to pay to a tour group and then maybe use that considerable amount of money for other expenses on your trip? In the end it would be good to control your schedule in my opinion and use your organizational skills to set up transport to and from the airport etc.. and the apartment or hotel where you choose to stay. You don't need to have an agent working for you unless you are a first timer and just want to feel more secure or something?
  I believe there is a bus at Kiev airport where you can arrange a ride to the center of Kiev for five dollars or so and this would save the 25-50 dollars you might pay to a cab or personal driver. Many ways to save money and be logical in your travel plans that would afford you a better value for your money.
 
  In regards to my tour on New Years....Yes it did give me  a three hour social as well as the new years party and this included champagne on the first social as well as food and such things. The terp was provided for that three hour meeting process and the terp did take phone numbers down and even called the ladies if you asked to set up a date. These are good services but maybe you can manage that yourself with cell phone experience. For the life of me I hate cell phones and don't want to learn but was forced to use one on this trip..lol My friend who is a pharmacist and has been for 25 years is like me and refuses to learn...lol Maybe I better learn...Actually I will learn.
  The New Years Party had other forms of alcohol as well as some food items and chicken for the guests. The party took place in an apartment and it was set up in the center of the center of Kiev. There were many pretty ladies at the party and there were tour guests with dates at the party. Since myself and my date did leave at about 11.45pm I don't know how the party went after that point. I suppose the drinks came stronger and the element of this social event was more of a celebration type event but when I departed it was not doing much and I followed a few othe guests out the door and into the streets to be among the people of Kiev and the celebrations.
  If asked by anyone if I would take this particular tour again or one during another time of year I'd honestly answer "No" because it's not for me and seemed to be less than I envisioned. Maybe I'm the silly person here but as stated before myself as well as other guests did not see the "tour" as actually a "tour" in our opinions and based on what a tour might involve. Some tours offer excursions and trips to local sites and have a regular meeting for the men and a support facility arranged with hours of operation etc... This tour had a telephone number to call and ask about your dates via your terp and also you could call Jack to ask something. In the end it was up to you to decide your destiny and that's fair and fine and works for me. Still I would not take a similar tour because it's not good for me.
  I don't know about other tours except what I have heard but I think the best way for an able man is to arrange everything yourself and possibly use the likes of a good helper like Pavel if needed. The time involved to arrange a complete trip is not much and the ability to do these things will save you money. Your EXPECTATIONS will be what you have done for yourself and dependent upon no other entity so you should have the satisfaction of knowing and crediting yourself only for your good fortune or bad fortune.

Makkin