Wedding ceremony in a Russian-Orthodox church with a protestant groom?

[JOR]

Hi!

I have found the lady of my dreams, and we are going to marry in May.

We will marry in Moscow, and are preparing the papers for ZAGS now.

However, I would also like to have a wedding ceremony in a church.  Since my coming wife is really concerned about her own flavor of Christianity, we would strongly prefer to have a wedding in a Russian-Orthodox church in Moscow.

We have spoken to one priest, and he informed us that his local church does not allow marriage between a Protestant/Lutheran and a Russian-Orthodox. 

However, I have heard that some Russian-Orthodox priests are more liberal.

Do any of you know of such a priest or church?  Have any of you been able to marry in a Russian-Orthodox church without having to be baptized into orthodoxy? 

I know that most Russian-Orthodox churches outside of Russia are ready to perform such a ceremony, but we would really like to do it in Moscow, since that is where our ZAGS wedding is and that is where all our guests for the wedding are gathering, from Moscow, from other various places in Russia, and from my own country.

"Yes" or "no" answers might be useful to some degree, but what I really need is a clue as to find such a priest or church.

Thanks in advance!   

[BC]

I simply converted.  Just had to produce a baptismal certificate.

[Shadow]

How much would you contribute to the priest that does not require you to convert ? That is the key to finding the answer.

[JOR]

How much would you contribute to the priest that does not require you to convert ? That is the key to finding the answer.

Seriously, this option is not to be ruled out.  If anybody knows a priest that would see a sensible balance between rigidity of rules and a reasonable donation to support the good work of his congregation, it would be very useful to get contact information. 

[BC]

How much would you contribute to the priest that does not require you to convert ? That is the key to finding the answer.

If you're gonna do it then why not just do it 'right'?

Not to turn this into a religion thread but from what I understand, the acceptance of even Catholic/Orthodox marriages is based on not depriving offspring of the Orthodox Church.

[I/O]

Oooooooooooo touchy subject this one. Think I'll give it a a wide birth.

I/O

[BC]

Oooooooooooo touchy subject this one. Think I'll give it a a wide birth.

I/O

Yeah, hear ya.. If you refer to my post, I was thinking more about the practical implications as the bride to be does seem to have her mind set about this subject.

[AnastassiaAsh]

As far as I know it is very strict.

I went through this twice. Once in Moscow and another in Vancouver, Canada. Both Russian Orthodox churches and both absolutely had to convert him to Orthodox faith. I am sorry but I am not sure you will find such a priest.

On the other hand, it is a ceremony and both my late husband and present husband didn't see a problem with that. Vice versa, they really liked it. 

Why don't you want to convert?  It doesn't really mean you will stop being Protestant/Lutheran...

Russian Orthodox Church believes they are the only right Christian church. I don't think they will do it even for big money.

You will be lucky if you find one in Moscow who speaks English.

I can give you some info here of a priest who does speak English a little bit but he will say he will have to convert you, but just in case.

Chram Fedora Studita
Храм Фёдора Студита

Father Paul.

095-216-89-15 - his home
095-290-02-74 - church phone

It was 8 years ago, he might remember me, Anastassia, and my then husband Lance. I hope these numbers didn't change.

____________________________________

And why are you doing ZAGS thing? You will have to go through marriage visa then after that is much much longer than fiance visa.

[mark2353]

I I agree with Anastasia why not convert? I hate to bring bad karma but if getting married in the church is so important to this lady it may be a greater part of her life than you know and it might cause problems between you two in the future.
I would advice you to meet with a local Russian orthodox (in the US) and your pastor and compare notes. Then make a decision.
If you are in the Bay Area I might have some suggestions. For the Russian churches.
the teachings should be rather close because they follow the byzantine church and they  are not subjects to the pope in Rome. Which is one of the main things that Luther canceled.
Sorry please get some counsel on this prior to making a hard decision.
good luck!

[Misha]

I went through this twice. Once in Moscow and another in Vancouver, Canada. Both Russian Orthodox churches and both absolutely had to convert him to Orthodox faith. I am sorry but I am not sure you will find such a priest.

That's what I did. To convert to Orthodoxy, as noted, I just needed my baptismal certificate. We were then married in a Russian Orthodox Church in Canada.

[mark2353]

Sorry but JAR is the person that I am talking about needing to consider conversion to orthodox!

[Lily]

095-216-89-15 - his home
095-290-02-74 - church phone

It was 8 years ago, he might remember me, Anastassia, and my then husband Lance. I hope these numbers didn't change.

 

The Moscow codes did change - 495 instead of 095.

[AnastassiaAsh]

Lily, I know. But 095 still works too. I almost never dial 495, only 095 and it works fine. Called Moscow two days ago. 

[philb]

My wife and I were married in a Russian Orthodox Church (Church of the Holy Trinity) in Kiev.  I am also Lutheran (LCMS).

The decision on whether or not to allow us to get married in the Orthodox Church was not made by the priest but by the Diocese at Pechersk Lavra.  It was a multi step process and as with most things of this type in the FSU, took a bit of time.

First we went to the Administrative Offices of the Diocese and scheduled an appointment.  We then returned about a week later for an interview.  I was questioned briefly about my church denomination and baptism.  It is my understanding that members  of Protestant Churches involved in proselytizing in the FSU and whose baptism is non-Trinitarian would find their request denied immediately.  We were then asked to sign a certificate stating that we agreed to have any children born of our marriage baptized in the Orthodox Church. 

We were then told to wait and we would receive a decision.  We sat in a waiting area  for about an hour after which we were given a certificate which we were to show the priest who would be performing the ceremony.  We then took this to the church, showed it to the priest, and scheduled the service.

So, it was the diocese who ultimately made the decision on whether or not we could be married in the Orthodox Church and not a parish level priest.  That said, the church in which we got married was the church my wife regularly attended and she is well known by the priest there.

Since we were married in a Russian Orthodox Church in Kiev (not Ukrainian Orthodox) and this church is under the jurisdiction of the Moscow Patriarchate, I would assume this would also be possible to do in Moscow.

If you do get married in an Orthodox Church I would highly recommend researching Orthodox theology in regards to marriage and getting an English translation of the actual service.  It contains some wonderful symbolism and is often misunderstood by western society.

Good Luck.

[BC]

So, it was the diocese who ultimately made the decision on whether or not we could be married in the Orthodox Church and not a parish level priest.  That said, the church in which we got married was the church my wife regularly attended and she is well known by the priest there.

Similar experience here in IT.  Permission requested from the diocese in Moscow and not decided at the parish level.

[JOR]

Thanks to all of you for the information!  This was very useful!

So in summary:
- It may be possible for a Russian Orthodox and a Protestant to marry in a Russian Orthodox church outside of Russia (Ukraine and Italy were mentioned) under certain conditions
- If the Protestant converts into the Russian Orthodox church, she/he will usually even be able to marry in a Russian Orthodox church inside of Russia
- The theory that there may be Russian Orthodox priests/parishes/dioceses inside of Russia that are less strict on the rules was not confirmed, but as BC reports, there might be hope :-)

I have also contacted a local Russian Orthodox priest in my own home country.  He says basically the same. 

So we basically have these choices:

- We could marry in another country than we would prefer
(My fiancee is against this.  She has strong feelings for her "own" church, which is understandable.  And now we have invited our guests, both from various places inside of Russia and from my own country, to come to join us in our celebration in Moscow.)

- I could convert
(I do not feel comfortable with this.  I don't know very much about the Russian Orthodox church yet, I haven't found big "advantages" of this flavor of Christianity yet, and for me personally it would feel like a lie to God, to myself and to all those around me if I should now convert)

- We could try to search even more for some place inside Russia with a more liberal practice
(This feels a little bit like trying to circumvent the rules, and we don't really know how to find a place like this...)

- We can live in sin


It seems that we will end up with the last alternative.  If we are hindered by the rules of the Church and by our own feelings from being able to do things in a way that feels right for both of us, then we end up doing nothing, which means that we will marry without blessing from the Church.

If the Church is not with us, we will try to manage without. 

[BC]

- The theory that there may be Russian Orthodox priests/parishes/dioceses inside of Russia that are less strict on the rules was not confirmed, but as BC reports, there might be hope :-)

.....

- I could convert
(I do not feel comfortable with this.  I don't know very much about the Russian Orthodox church yet, I haven't found big "advantages" of this flavor of Christianity yet, and for me personally it would feel like a lie to God, to myself and to all those around me if I should now convert)

You may have missed my first post where I stated that I converted.

I personally wouldn't worry about the rest.  As far as God is concerned He's the same one so bez problem.  I get the feeling though you are worried more about what others think.. A RW plus conversion.. Yeah some may think you are nuts..

In this quest "in for a penny, in for a pound"....