Overcoming her fears from previous move with a bad WM

[Al_C]

Here is one I think the RW are best suited to handle, but maybe you guys have some ideas too:

There is a lady who previously left Russia to marry a man in Italy.  The move resulted in one of the RW's worst fears becoming reality:  The guy turned out to be an alcoholic, abusing, slave-driving, male chauvinist pig.  The lady had enough sense to ditch this loser after three months and return to Russia.  But needless to say, this debacle extracted a huge toll on the lady, both emotionally and economicaly.

Now that I am courting this lady, her Italian problem is turning into my problem.  She frequently expresses fears that the same thing will happen again, except this time in New York.  I am not at all like this loser, not even remotely like him, and she saw and acknowledged that fact, but she still worries that it will happen again.

How do I get it through to her that her Italian nightmare will not be playing in reruns in New YorK?  Ladies, if this were you, what would convince you?  Gents, what would you do?

Everything else with this lady is going just super, but I can't get around this brick wall.

[I/O]

Gents, what would you do?

Everything else with this lady is going just super, but I can't get around this brick wall.

Every KG of excess baggage costs. This is not something you can fix. She has to deal with it in her own way in her own time. Can she fix your fear about a repeat of your previous horrible marriage? This woman is not ready for a serious international relationship. It's the third day of a golf comp for you, moving day.

I/O

[Al_C]

There is one fact I should have been clearer on.  We are not talking recent history.  Her Italian nightmare happened 8 years ago.

[Gator]

She has to deal with it in her own way in her own time.

Agree completely.  Yet, there is much you must do to help her.

The guy turned out to be an alcoholic, abusing, slave-driving, male chauvinist pig. 

You need to show everyday with her that you are the antithesis of the Italian man.

-  You drink alcohol in small amounts. 
-  You are gentle in every way. 
-  You are very patient and do not push her faster than she wants to go,
-  You respect her and all women as the wonderful sweet creatures that they are.

There is much more.  You have to demonstrate that you are trustworthy, etc.

If you can not be this type of man, or you do not have the time for the many, many meetings necessary to convince her that this is your true nature, I suggest that you look for another RW.

The lady had enough sense to ditch this loser after three months and return to Russia.  But needless to say, this debacle extracted a huge toll on the lady, both emotionally and economicaly.

If your woman truly loves you, she will forget about the Italian man.  Yet, the economic risk will still linger.  If over time you believe that you are succeeding, you could also help reduce her concern about economic loss by giving her a reserve of money so that she can land on her feet if she leaves you in 90 days.  But do not mention this now as it would come across as buying her love.  Be sure that you are feeling her true love.

[Ooooops]

I don't think you can do much besides show who you are.   If she likes it, she'll trust you.   If she doesn't...   well... 

[viking]

Eight years is a long time to harbor such deep seated emotions. This guy must have done some serious damage. Or she is unusally sensitive. Yet, it was still her decision to hook up with this man. How long did she know him before deciding to move to Italy? Did she take any trips there to meet his friends/family? This is not a big ride.I know a RW who is speaking to an Italian in Milan (she is in SPB). She has been there 4-5 times in one year. A tiger does not change its stripes. Somewhere she should have seen an indication of his true personality.

[Misha]

There is one fact I should have been clearer on.  We are not talking recent history.  Her Italian nightmare happened 8 years ago.

So why exactly is she looking for a foreigner? This happened 8 years ago and she had more than enough time to get over it and/or marry a local guy.

If you don't mind my asking, how did you meet? The reason that I ask is that given her fears, it would not have made much sense for her to have a profile on an agency site where RW look for foreigners.

 

[Blues Fairy]

She frequently expresses fears that the same thing will happen again, except this time in New York.  I am not at all like this loser, not even remotely like him, and she saw and acknowledged that fact, but she still worries that it will happen again.
Ladies, if this were you, what would convince you? 

If this episode really happened so long ago, I suspect she's simply using it to extort all kinds of assurances from you.  It may be her way to manipulate you into handling her with kiddy gloves for her delicate nature.  You need to be firm and tell her that you are your own man and not responsible for other guys' jerky behavior, and if she wants to be with you, she better get over that episode and move on, and be fair to you. 

[Gator]

If this episode really happened so long ago, I suspect she's simply using it to extort all kinds of assurances from you. 

BF,  I know a number of men who still carry into their current relationships some crap that happened a long time ago.  Come to think about it, few of them have a current relationship. 

You need to be firm and tell her that you are your own man and not responsible for other guys' jerky behavior, and if she wants to be with you, she better get over that episode and move on, and be fair to you.

 

I consider this similar to what Oooops advised:

I don't think you can do much besides show who you are.

Every good relationship I have enjoyed over my long life has required some acceptable adjustment on my part and some on the woman's part too.  If you and your Scotsman are not having to make any adjustments, you indeed have found your one and only.  However, your journey together has not yet come to some crossroads such as children, etc.

[Blues Fairy]

If you and your Scotsman are not having to make any adjustments, you indeed have found your one and only.  However, your journey together has not yet come to some crossroads such as children, etc.

Gator, do not make assumptions about what crossroads we have or have not reached. 

I am not saying people should not make adjustments to each other.  I'm saying it's unfair to dump on each other all the crap from past failed relationships; it's immature and smacks of manipulation. 

[BC]

If this episode really happened so long ago, I suspect she's simply using it to extort all kinds of assurances from you.  It may be her way to manipulate you into handling her with kiddy gloves for her delicate nature.  You need to be firm and tell her that you are your own man and not responsible for other guys' jerky behavior, and if she wants to be with you, she better get over that episode and move on, and be fair to you. 

I can agree with what may be written between the lines.  Extortion for assurances.. hmm..  Based on my experiences with women in general, sounds maybe more like an attempt at a plausible excuse.

Keep expectations low and - quello che sarà, sarà.

One thing that I have learned over the years is that the more I push for a relationship, less chances it will thrive.

-lest we become our worst enemy...

[ScottinCrimea]

Whatever the motivations for her concerns, they can't be ignored.  The only thing that you can do is give it time and be consistent in your behavior

My wife, as I did and all do, had a bit of baggage herself and at various times expressed concerns regarding behavior by her first husband.  I would ask her, "Have I, at any time, acted in this manner?"  After about a hundred times of me asking and her admitting that I had not, she could finally put any doubts behind her.  It wasn't my words that convinced her, it was my actions.

[Kuna]

I'd really like to disagree with Gator JUST ONE TIME - but this isn't the time.   

I'll add something though.

I believe in this situation you CANNOT convince her you'll be different.  Yes, you can show all the characteristics that prove you are different, but I also believe it's important to show empathy towards her fears.

It's important to let her discuss the fears and you shouldn't be a typical bloke and tell her how you'll fix it or be different.  Instead it's better to acknowledge her fears and talk about the dangers both of you face.

It's CRITICAL she understands there is a way out for her if it doesn't work... but also let her know what your fears are.  We all have them, or should have them... maybe she isn't aware you have been through similar fears to what you're facing.

Make sure she understands you have a plan for the future, and that she is the most importaqnt part of the plan.  Consult her,  listen to her and be patient.

It's true she may not get over it but if you want to help the woman through the process it's important you are strong, but patient.  Don't try to fix the problem for her - you can't. 

[steviej]

If this episode really happened so long ago, I suspect she's simply using it to extort all kinds of assurances from you.  It may be her way to manipulate you into handling her with kiddy gloves for her delicate nature.  You need to be firm and tell her that you are your own man and not responsible for other guys' jerky behavior, and if she wants to be with you, she better get over that episode and move on, and be fair to you. 

I tend to agree with Blues Fairy here. I suspect that, being a very polite and nice woman that she seems to be, she doesn't have a high enough level of interest in you and she's a little afraid to tell you strait out. Sometimes a woman can feel guilty if a man has been pursuing her, spending a lot of time, money and interest, and she begins to realize that she doesn't reciprocate his interest. Sometimes its hard for a woman to say strait out, "You are the man I'm looking for. Move on and good luck." In that case, they tend to use other issues as barriers until you get yourself worn out. I think I also agree with Gator that you should move on (although you haven't said how long you've been pursuing her.) Good luck.

[ScottinCrimea]

I think I also agree with Gator that you should move on (although you haven't said how long you've been pursuing her.) Good luck.

I think you need to reread Gator's post.  As I read it, his advice was not to simply move on.  There were a few considerations he offered before taking such a move.

[Al_C]

Agree completely.  Yet, there is much you must do to help her.

You need to show everyday with her that you are the antithesis of the Italian man.

-  You drink alcohol in small amounts. 
-  You are gentle in every way. 
-  You are very patient and do not push her faster than she wants to go,
-  You respect her and all women as the wonderful sweet creatures that they are.

I drink zero alcohol, also no smoking or drugs.

I am gentle, and she acknowledged that fact

I am patient and told her explicitly to not listen to anybody who might tell her to run to me for fear that I might otherwise lose interest in her.

I respect her to the utmost, always taking the time to listen to her concerns and trying to address them as best as I can, even asking her if she would like to help me find ways to address those concerns.

I told her that the conduct of any man who would hit a woman is beyond contempt.

Blues Fairy's idea that maybe I am being too soft on her intrugues me.

Thanks for all of the advice.

[mark2353]

I wish I had gotten such good advice as you are getting from Blues Fairy(fantastic!), Gator and other! Unfortunately I was in one of those relationships which the ex could not let go of the past! It will hunt you for the rest of your days! You can put you foot down or even try the "security" approach giving her some money to determine if she wants to stay or go. but just like she is not forgetting the past with that gentlemen will she forget minor mistakes that happens between you and her? can you live with that person? I will tell you honestly I very happy my ex is ex! that is all.
If she can not trust that is the basis of this whole marriage thing! Where do you go from here if she does not trust from the start?
Personally I think you should go shopping for another lovely lady,
best of luck
Mark

[ScottinCrimea]

Some moments of doubt are normal in any relationship, especially in the beginning.  To jettison someone just because they express these doubts is rather shortsighted IMHO.

[I/O]

~OMG, she has been jerking this around in her head for 8 years? Move out and move on, it isn't going to fix anytime soon. This doll needs a serious reality check as does her suitor. Toot toot.........train coming...............

I/O

[UTRO]

I have to agree with Misha. Why is she on a Foreign Dating Website if she has concerns about Western men? Or, does she have concerns with All men?? How long have you known her? It is quite natural for her to be concerned if your Relationship is new.... She doesn't know you from Flynn! If so, I wouldn't worry about it. But, if you two have met in person and you have known one another for a while, then yes I'd then be a little concerned.
Maybe you have a similar experience that you can share with her? A stalker or two? Seriously, if you have something in your past that you can share... it would relax her

[Gator]

Gator, do not make assumptions about what crossroads we have or have not reached. 

Sorry.  You are correct, I was presumptuous.  I should never presume anything about you (that BTW is a compliment).

[Gator]

I respect her to the utmost, always taking the time to listen to her concerns and trying to address them as best as I can, even asking her if she would like to help me find ways to address those concerns.

But do you respect all women?  Never saying anything bad about AW or an ex-?

Blues Fairy's idea that maybe I am being too soft on her intrugues me.

Patience is not to be confused with being soft.  Yet, there comes a time when a decisive man will move on rather than hang around and hope things will get better.   Al_C,  there are a few threads about the fact that RW are not appropriate for every man.  KenC started the last one a few weeks ago.   I am not saying that you should avoid RW.  However, such threads should give you insight into RW mentality.

[JimSeattle1963]

I have to agree that this is very problematic for the man.  IMO she is controlling you with this worry of hers.  You can empathize, show her how different you are, but if it drags on and on, you must decide when the clock runs out.  If she strings you along and along and along on this issue, it is disrespectful to you as a man, and shows she does not truly believe in you, or cannot get over some reservations she has about you.
She may not be "consciously" trying to use this issue to control you, but that is the net effect and it is what she has chosen to do, consciously, or unconsciously.
Are you a man whose time and life energy are valuable?  Are you stuck on the romantic notion that she is truly worth any price, that you will climb any mountain for her?  Only you can make the choice, only you know the firsthand story.
You must make a clear decision about WHEN the clock will run out on your efforts to work through this.  I believe you are a MAN and as a man whose time and energy are VALUABLE, you must insist on being TREATED RESPECTFULLY by this woman, or ultimately she will continue to CONTROL, DOMINATE, and NEUTER you, and all the while RESPECT YOU LESS.  There are many OTHER intelligent, attractive, worthwhile women out there who will RESPECT and appreciate a man such as you.
A suggestion: When you get to the point where your primary feeling about this matter starts to be one of RESENTMENT of her inability to make a clear choice and leave this baggage behind, and feel you have tried everything you reasonably can, and have been patient and loving, that is the time to move on.  And move on you must, as kindly and considerately towards her as you can.  Your act of moving on will force her to confront her lingering issues.  If you truly love this woman, your odds of winning her in the end may be better if you move on now, but leave the door open for things to start up again when she has done whatever work she needs to do to let go of the past.  If she really did care that much about you, she will begin doing this work.  If not, perhaps the real reason for holding back, as others suggested, was just that the 8 years ago events made a plausible smokescreen for stringing you along and at least having *someone* in her life, despite her reservations about you.
Good luck, and whatever you choose, conduct yourself as a man of value, a man worthy of being respected by a woman, and who will not accept anything less.

[Shadow]

I hope you don't mind me asking, but in which stage of 'courting' are you ?
Have you already spent significant time together so that you can convince her you are different ?