It appears you have not registered with our community. To register please click here ...

!!

Welcome to Russian Women Discussion - the most informative site for all things related to serious long-term relationships and marriage to a partner from the Former Soviet Union countries!

Please register (it's free!) to gain full access to the many features and benefits of the site. Welcome!

+-

Author Topic: Ukraine, Fighting Corruption  (Read 7059 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Photo Guy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1884
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: No Selection
  • Status: Committed 0-1 year
  • Trips: 1 - 3
Ukraine, Fighting Corruption
« on: August 19, 2005, 02:11:11 PM »
I ran across this interesting article:

 YUSHCHENKO TARGETS DONETSK "CLANS"

By Oleg Varfolomeyev

Tuesday, July 19, 2005

"I am the president of all Ukrainians, those who voted for me and those who didn't, those who understand me and those who don't," President Viktor Yushchenko said upon his July 15 arrival in the eastern city of Donetsk, which remains largely hostile towards him. Donetsk Region voted overwhelmingly in favor of former prime minister Viktor Yanukovych in last year's presidential polls, while support for Yushchenko was limited to single digits. Last Friday marked Yushchenko's second trip to Donetsk since his inauguration. This visit was not only an attempt to win the hearts and minds of the locals, who believe Yushchenko is too nationalist and too pro-American to be the leader of the Ukrainian nation, but probably also the last warning to the local elites, who, Yushchenko believes, resist democratic changes.

Yushchenko's reception in Donetsk this time around was an example of Soviet-era hospitality. In October 2003, when he tried to hold a congress of his Our Ukraine bloc in Donetsk, he was met with insulting posters depicting him in a Nazi uniform. In July 2005, Yushchenko was met with freshly mended roads and welcoming billboards. The day before his arrival, a local court outlawed an anti-Yushchenko protest near the airport, so arriving in Donetsk he saw orange flags and happy faces. But this, apparently, failed to impress him. "The authorities must be moral. But in Donetsk they are not," Yushchenko said, addressing a hall full of local dignitaries. Yushchenko's allies had been ejected from this same hall in 2003. "The [Donetsk] authorities do not understand their purpose yet, they are restoring clans and bringing back the links that discredit all of you," the president warned.

This was a clear warning to local officials. Recalling the 2003 propaganda campaign against him, Yushchenko openly accused Donetsk Mayor Oleksandr Lukyanchenko, of "assisting the crime." Yushchenko said that he still expects an apology from the mayor, which he received today (July 19). It was expected that on coming to Donetsk Yushchenko might fire regional governor Vadym Chuprun, a former ambassador to Turkmenistan, whom he had picked to head the region last February. On July 9, Yushchenko's Our Ukraine-People's Union Party adopted a motion (1,362 votes to three) urging Yushchenko to dismiss Chuprun for failure to diminish the influence of the local "clans." It was rumored that Chuprun might be replaced by Our Ukraine MP Mykhaylo Pozhyvanov, a former mayor of Donetsk Region's second largest city, Mariupol, and a former deputy mayor of Kyiv. But Yushchenko apparently gave Suprun another chance, as he chaired the July 15 meeting.

Steel tycoon Renat Akhmetov, who is believed to be the real boss of Donetsk Region, may have no such second chance, as reports have appeared that police suspect him of criminal activity. On June 23 the Interior Ministry's anti-organized crime department head Serhy Kornych said at a news conference, "Akhmetov is a real boss of an organized criminal group." Interior Minister Yuriy Lutsenko, asked to comment on Kornych's statement on June 28, said that he had no evidence of Akhmetov's involvement in crime, and that Kornych would have to "either prove his statement with evidence or apologize." But no apology came from Kornych; instead, on July 13 the Interior Ministry's criminal investigation department summoned Akhmetov for questioning on July 18 (Akhmetov ignored the summons, and his aides replied to the ministry that he is vacationing abroad). Also on July 13, Glavred quoted a source in the ministry as saying that Akhmetov is suspected of masterminding an attempt on the life of a criminal boss in Donetsk in 1988. Interviewed on television on July 16, Lutsenko indirectly confirmed this report. "The criminal investigation department told me today that one individual who lives abroad testified that Akhmetov committed an attempt on his life," he said. "An investigation has to be conducted in order to find the truth."

Symptomatically, Akhmetov did not attend the meeting with Yushchenko, neither did Mayor Lukyanchenko. And Donetsk Regional Council Chairman Borys Kolesnykov could not do so physically, as on the day of Yushchenko's trip to Donetsk a court in Kyiv, where he faces a trial on extortion charges, ruled to extend his term in custody (see EDM, April 11). Another former local dignitary recently targeted by police is a former mayor of Makiyivka and former deputy governor of Donetsk Region Vasyl Dzharty. The Interior Ministry said on July 13 that Dzharty is suspected of tax evasion during the purchase of a Mercedes limousine in 2002, and that the purchases by him of a Lexus and two more Mercedes cars are being checked.

(Obkom.net.ua, June 23; Interfax-Ukraine, June 28, July 13; UNIAN, July 9; Glavred.info, July 13; Ukraina TV, July 15; Inter TV, July 16; Kanal 5 TV, July 18; Ostro.org, July 19)


Offline Elen

  • Alt Forum
  • *****
  • Posts: 2133
Ukraine, Fighting Corruption
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2005, 02:25:52 AM »
Phew :? I hoped to hear they have sent Timoshenko into jail or somebody of her family:?

Offline Photo Guy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1884
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: No Selection
  • Status: Committed 0-1 year
  • Trips: 1 - 3
Ukraine, Fighting Corruption
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2005, 10:15:50 AM »
I guess there is corruption on ALL sides. Right?

Offline Elen

  • Alt Forum
  • *****
  • Posts: 2133
Ukraine, Fighting Corruption
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2005, 10:37:40 AM »
No if it's our side it's called business:P, but if it's alien side it's already corruption
« Last Edit: August 20, 2005, 10:38:00 AM by Elen »

Offline wxman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1316
  • Gender: Male
Ukraine, Fighting Corruption
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2005, 12:34:07 PM »
Kuchma, Yanokovich and Yushencko should all share a jail cell together and share stories on how they plundered Ukraine.
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting that vote." – Benjamin Franklin -

Offline Elen

  • Alt Forum
  • *****
  • Posts: 2133
Ukraine, Fighting Corruption
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2005, 07:30:28 PM »
Now what about Timoshenko in the same cell? Who of them do you think would survive then? :D

Offline Bruno

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3926
  • Gender: Male
Ukraine, Fighting Corruption
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2005, 08:36:32 PM »
Quote from: Elen
Now what about Timoshenko in the same cell? Who of them do you think would survive then? :D

Do you wish that they reproduce ? :D:D:D

 

Offline Elen

  • Alt Forum
  • *****
  • Posts: 2133
Ukraine, Fighting Corruption
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2005, 08:45:24 PM »
well?? Don't know for sure There are only some thoughts about "black widow" in my head:P so may be it would be reproduction but not multiplying

Offline wxman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1316
  • Gender: Male
Ukraine, Fighting Corruption
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2005, 08:22:17 AM »
I think Timoshenko would be more like the preying mantis in the cell. She would mate with those 3 and then bite their heads off.
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting that vote." – Benjamin Franklin -

Offline anono

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 502
Ukraine, Fighting Corruption
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2005, 09:31:59 PM »
the problem with this supposed clean up of corruption in ukraine is that they are starting from the bottom. they are busting the cops that take 10 grivna for speeding and other traffic offenses. i think this type of graft, on the small level for the little people is not only a good thing, but necessary.

instead of trying to clean up BIG government, all those  that have plundered ukraine want to keep their money and the status quo.

they will go after the small stuff and make sure it gets in the papers how they are fighting corruption. but the corruption at the top levels will go on and will notchange any time soon.

Offline Shadow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9133
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: Married > 10 years
  • Trips: > 10
Ukraine, Fighting Corruption
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2005, 11:57:55 PM »
Quote from: anono
the problem with this supposed clean up of corruption in ukraine is that they are starting from the bottom. they are busting the cops that take 10 grivna for speeding and other traffic offenses. i think this type of graft, on the small level for the little people is not only a good thing, but necessary.

instead of trying to clean up BIG government, all those  that have plundered ukraine want to keep their money and the status quo.

they will go after the small stuff and make sure it gets in the papers how they are fighting corruption. but the corruption at the top levels will go on and will notchange any time soon.
If they manage this at least they will be level with many Western countries ;)
No it is not a dog. Its really how I look.  ;)

Offline ronin308

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 217
  • Gender: Male
Ukraine, Fighting Corruption
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2005, 07:13:32 AM »
Anyone expecting the corruption problem to go away overnight is completely deluded.  The Ukrainian government like the Russian government has deep corruption at all levels that will take years to root out and remove.  I'm sure the current government is one step better than those they replaced, but if you keep walking that path eventually you reach the medium you find in most countries including the US and Europe.

To eliminate corruption you need to focus on what causes it.  Here it starts as a poorly paid public servant for whom bribes are "neccessary" to survive.  He learns it's ok to be corrupt and graduates to a supervisor's position where he can actually take more.  As he continues to work his way into higher and higher positions where he is in a position to grab more money. 

That progression helps ingrain the corruption in this society, so it needs to be stopped at all levels and not tolerated because we deem it "necessary" at lower levels.  That street cop taking 10 grivnas from you today could be the Captain of the station in a few years, locking you up and trying to get you for a real soaking.

Along those lines, who is easier to replace a street cop or the Captain of the unit with years of management experience?  And by replacing the Captain with a junior who is already corrupt you just perpetuate the cycle and never fix it. 

If you read Photoguy's article, you'll see they are targeting higher ups as well, the last few paragraphs mention mayors and a regional council chairman who is in jail in Kyiv.

As to Elen's comments, the Russian courts and prosecutors are known to be as corrupt as the Ukrainian ones, so unless you know of evidence that can be independantly verified outside of Ukraine or Russia any decisions about Timoshenko are considered suspect.  I'm not saying she's not a criminal, just that russian proof is going to be suspect because of the anti-Ukrainian bias in your country.  Just like if America charged a minister in Mexico who our government didn't like with a crime.

Offline groovlstk

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2977
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouse's Country: Russia
  • Status: Married 5-10 years
  • Trips: > 10
Ukraine, Fighting Corruption
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2005, 12:59:42 PM »
I'm sure Elen will want to refute this :) but here's an article from the NY Times earlier this month which claims that corruption in Russia is getting worse:

Pervasive Corruption in Russia Is 'Just Called Business' By Steven Lee Myers

August 13, 2005, New York Times

MOSCOW, Aug. 12 - A businessman here recently formed a company to supply equipment used in new office and apartment buildings. Despite the country's construction boom, it nearly foundered. That is, until this summer, when two "intermediaries" arranged to fix the bidding for contracts from a regional government.

He has since received four new contracts, he said, and expects more. Success has its cost, though. He had paid bribes, he said, amounting to 5 to 10 percent of each contract. The largest, so far, totaled $90,000.

The amount of each bribe was punched out on a desktop calculator to avoid any paper trail. He expressed disgust but said the bribes were an unavoidable cost of doing business in Russia today.

"If you want to be competitive you have to play the game," he said, agreeing to speak in a lengthy interview only if he, his company and the regional government were not identified. He said he feared legal difficulties and being harmed or even killed.

"It used to be called bribery," he added. "Now it is just called business."

Bribery is certainly not new to Russia, but according to several recent surveys and interviews with dozens of Russians, it has surged in scale and scope in recent years under the presidency of Vladimir V. Putin, so that today it touches just about every aspect of life.

With greater urgency than ever, anticorruption campaigners and even some government officials warn that the government has become so ensnared by corruption that it threatens to undo Russia's progress since the dismantling of the Soviet Union 14 years ago.

The Indem Foundation, a research group in Moscow that has conducted the most extensive efforts to measure bribery here, estimated last month that Russians paid more than $3 billion in bribes annually and that businesses paid $316 billion - nearly 10 times the estimate of its first survey just four years ago.

The total is more than two and a half times what the government collects in budget revenues, the survey found. That means that vast amounts of Russia's wealth flow in a shadowy netherworld of corrupted officials - unreported as income, untaxed by the government and unavailable for social or economic investments.

"The weakness, inefficiency and corruption of all branches of government are the most important obstacles to further progress in reforming Russia," the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, or O.E.C.D., said in June in a report commissioned by the Russian government.

Other surveys also rank Russia among the world's most corrupt nations, placing the former superpower on a par with developing countries. Transparency International, the worldwide corruption watchdog, said in its latest report that Russia was now following the path of countries like Nigeria, Azerbaijan and Libya - rich in oil but soaked by graft.

Grigory A. Satarov, the president of Indem, said in an interview that the new growth of bribery fed off the inefficiencies of Russia's still sclerotic state structures, inherited from the Communist past.

But he also blamed Putin policies that have weakened the rule of law. Fighting corruption, he argued, requires three conditions: free news media, a vibrant political opposition and a truly independent judiciary. Under Mr. Putin, he said, the Kremlin has undercut all three.

"The main thing," Mr. Satarov said, "is that all this time, Putin has not done anything to change the situation."

For businesses especially, bribery is ballooning, along with the amounts solicited, which Indem estimated to average $135,000 - a 13-fold jump from 2001. Mr. Satarov said the increasing pressure on businesses reflected the expanding role of the state in the economy during Mr. Putin's presidency.

For Mr. Satarov and others, high-profile cases like the legal assault on the Yukos oil company highlighted less the government's determination to root out corruption than its desire to assert its control over valuable economic assets.

In fact, the conviction of Yukos's former chairman, Mikhail B. Khodorkovsky, on tax evasion charges that he and his supporters called politically motivated may have had an opposite effect.

According to a very wealthy and prominent Moscow businessman, who spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of prosecution or political retaliation, as well as others interviewed, bribes have increasingly become a necessity, either to win contracts or to keep inspectors and prosecutors at bay.

The magnitude and scope of this kind corruption make Russia different today from even the recent past, the Moscow businessman said. In the early years of Russia's post-Soviet transition, lingering fear of Soviet control and a romantic optimism for a normal democracy limited corruption to some extent.

"There are no romantics now," he said, "and the old fear is not there anymore."

A recent survey by the World Bank reported that 78 percent of businesses in Russia reported having to pay bribes. Another survey, by the Foreign Investment Advisory Council, created in 1994 by the Russian government and prominent foreign corporations, found that 71 percent considered corruption the biggest barrier to foreign investment.

Mr. Satarov said one major businessman had told him of having to pay monthly bribes to five federal ministries. Fully half of the businessman's profits went to bribes, Mr. Satarov recounted. "He said, 'When it reaches 70 percent I'm going to close the business.' "

A business consultant who until recently worked with the European Union on economic development projects in Kaliningrad and Moscow said he had endured repeated encounters with bribe-seeking officials, who demanded cash, gifts or the hiring of unqualified relatives.

In an interview, the consultant, who agreed to discuss the issue only if not identified because of fears of retribution, said it was necessary to understand bribery in the context of the Russian government.

"Corruption is not a virus infecting the system," he explained, saying that was how bribery was viewed in Europe or the United States: as an aberration that must be isolated and cut out. "It is the system itself that is corrupt."

Indeed, Russia has evolved from its Soviet past in such a way that for many, paying "a little something" is not even considered bribery anymore. Rather, bribes are seen more as a fee for resolving seemingly intractable problems or overcoming bureaucratic delays, one that supplements the meager incomes of otherwise honest civil servants.

"It's not their fault, but the government's inability to provide a decent living," Yaroslav D. Lissovolik, the chief economist at United Financial Group, said. He last paid a bribe - "a couple of dollars," he said - to receive the results of lab tests at a state clinic, where state health care is free only in theory.

The O.E.C.D. report concluded that government officials actually complicated legislation or regulations deliberately to increase opportunities for bribery. Or as the businessman in construction put it: "The law is like the Bible. They interpret it any way they like."

An American businessman married to a Russian woman recounted his own example. He said he had to pay nearly $1,000 in bribes to resolve a Catch-22 involving his infant daughter. She could not receive a Russian passport unless she was registered with the local police. She could not be registered, though, unless she had a passport.

"That perfect problem was solved with a larger sum than I want to remember," he said, agreeing to tell the story only if not identified, because of American laws against bribery.

As a result of its necessity, bribery has become accepted practice.

Bribes have become almost obligatory, for instance, for admission to Russia's universities, even those supposedly available at no cost to those who qualify. The Indem study estimated that $583 million was spent annually in bribes to deans, professors and others involved in securing admission. The foundation, along with the Moscow Higher School of Economics, estimated that students paid bribes as high as $30,000 to $40,000 to enter the most prestigious universities.

Young men of draft age also routinely pay to receive a deferment, either on medical or other grounds, to avoid service in a military roiled by the war in Chechnya and a particularly gruesome form of hazing for new recruits.

One young man in Yekaterinburg said in an interview that the going rate in central Russia was $1,500, and that he and several peers had paid it gladly. In Moscow it is said to be $5,000. According to the Defense Ministry, fewer than 10 percent of eligible men are drafted.

The police have the reputation of being the most notoriously corrupt. Sergei S., a lawyer with a prominent law firm, recalled the time recently when his girlfriend was at the wheel in Moscow and, without question, absolutely drunk when an officer waved the car over. She avoided arrest after Sergei went to an automatic bank machine, escorted by the officer, and withdrew $300.

"The most horrible thing," he said, agreeing to discuss the experience only if neither his last name nor his law firm was identified, "is it is absolutely normal."

Indem's survey uncovered one positive trend: the number of Russians willing to pay bribes has fallen since 2001, suggesting a growing popular frustration with the solicitations. Still, 53 percent of those surveyed said they would pay a bribe.

Mr. Putin's critics and even some supporters charge that the government has done little to combat corruption seriously because it extends to the upper tiers of government, something the president himself has acknowledged, sometimes bluntly.

"The state as a whole and the law enforcement bodies, unfortunately, are still afflicted with corruption and inefficiency," Mr. Putin said in an interview on state television last year. The corruption, he added, reaches to the "highest level, where we are talking about hundreds, tens of thousands, perhaps millions" of dollars.

Aleksandr Y. Lebedev, a wealthy financier and a member of the lower house of Parliament in the pro-Putin party, United Russia, said in an interview that corruption would flourish until drastic measures were taken, like the seizure of assets at home and abroad. "You find deputy ministers who have houses and yachts," he said. "I know ministers who are millionaires."

At the same time, Mr. Putin's government has not completely ignored the problem. It has announced a series of modest anticorruption measures, increasing salaries for law enforcement and other security officials and toughening penalties for seemingly petty crimes, like issuing a false passport.

The latter was a consequence of the deadly wave of terrorist attacks in August and September of last year. Two passenger airliners exploded in flight on Aug. 24, killing 90 people, after a bribe of roughly $34 enabled at least one of two suicide bombers to board at a Moscow airport.

"The people on those planes were not only the victims of terrorism," Yelena A. Panfilova, director of the Moscow branch of Transparency International, said. "They were victims of corruption." Yet as shocking as it was at the time, she said, the disclosure hardly surprised her.

When Transparency International applied to register its branch in 2000, an official in the Justice Ministry solicited a $300 "fee" to correct supposed problems in the application that Ms. Panfilova said did not exist.

"I said, 'Do you know who we are?' " she recalled.

 

 

+-RWD Stats

Members
Total Members: 8888
Latest: UA2006
New This Month: 0
New This Week: 0
New Today: 0
Stats
Total Posts: 546126
Total Topics: 20977
Most Online Today: 70217
Most Online Ever: 194418
(June 04, 2025, 03:26:40 PM)
Users Online
Members: 6
Guests: 12113
Total: 12119

+-Recent Posts

Re: The Struggle For Ukraine by krimster2
Today at 08:51:31 AM

Re: Operation White Panther by Trenchcoat
Today at 02:38:54 AM

Re: The Struggle For Ukraine by Trenchcoat
Today at 02:28:05 AM

Re: The Struggle For Ukraine by Trenchcoat
Today at 01:34:36 AM

Re: The Struggle For Ukraine by krimster2
June 16, 2025, 08:09:06 PM

Re: The Struggle For Ukraine by Trenchcoat
June 16, 2025, 05:44:57 PM

Re: The Struggle For Ukraine by krimster2
June 16, 2025, 12:50:11 PM

Re: The Struggle For Ukraine by Trenchcoat
June 16, 2025, 11:16:38 AM

Re: The Coming Crash by krimster2
June 16, 2025, 10:16:41 AM

Re: The Struggle For Ukraine by olgac
June 16, 2025, 09:28:09 AM

Powered by EzPortal

create account