So You Want a Younger Woman? True Confessions ...

[Ooooops]

Like any real Russian woman, she would work if the family needed it, for necessity. But to choose it as something important in life, no, she thinks that's silly. She would much rather take care of her husband, her home, and do the many other things that interest her.

Wow!   Now that's a pretty sweeping generalization, if you ask me, a Russian woman.   

[steviej]

Wow!   Now that's a pretty sweeping generalization, if you ask me, a Russian woman.   

Gee, Oooops, are you going to disagree? 

[Ooooops]

Gee, Oooops, are you going to disagree? 

I guess I have some kind of reputation here already, huh?   

[steviej]

I guess I have some kind of reputation here already, huh?   

... Oooops writes with sharp pencil .... 

[Ooooops]

 :angel:

[diverboy70]

   I asked why as a UK citizen I had to pay over $1000 each for my wife and step-son, but it would be free as an Irish citizen and they couldn't answer.. There is an official EU Commission complaint re this so something must change ..

I am married already, so I didn't need to challenge the ruling on the time constraints.

I would say that is a quite a bargain for love

[russianfront]

My ex-wife was 10.5 years younger than me. I think that's about as much of a difference as I can handle. Now at 39 I am chatting with 5 great women, one is 33, one is 29, two are 28 and two are 27. Of the 5, 3 of them have kids. So far I have not thought of the ramifcations of the kids and I don't hold it for or against them. I will see what my reaction is at the end of the day if I have to decide between kids and no kids...
Great discussion all.

[JR]

True Confessions about Wanting a Much Younger Woman

Hello RWD ladies and gentleman. This is not meant to be a thread to discuss in any abstract way the “issue” of “age difference.” This is just a personal confession about my own feelings and experiences with it and how I ended up where I am. The “issue” itself is probably nothing more than young women are beautiful. How much can you say about that?  I’m trying not to be judgmental with myself, and I’d invite any other guys and ladies to share their own confessions and stories here in that regard. Maybe some of you new guys can find something useful in it to your own quest, who knows? No one, not any of my friends or family members, have ever heard this story.

I was married a long time to my first wife (AW). The marriage was dead many years before the divorce. I stayed married “for the kids”, which worked out well (great kids!). But when I got divorced, I woke up and discovered, “Here I am, a middle-aged man and single!” And when I started looking around at women again, I realized something fairly quickly … I wanted a young woman! I had aged, but the women I desired had not! (Here is the “issue” is it not?) I did not want a woman “my age” like I felt I was supposed to want. And the more I saw them with fresh eyes, oh man, how much I desired them, how beautiful and alluring they were. I wanted them so bad my teeth hurt. I have an expression: when I was 15, 25 yr old women were beautiful; when I was 25, 25 yr old women were beautiful; when I was 35, 25 yr old women were beautiful; when I was 45, 25 yr old women were beautiful, etc … While time passes in a man’s life, that moment of maximum desirability of a woman does not move. This is probably why women get so obsessed with age and trying to look young as long as possible. They know this. They’ve been there. Each of them has had their moment when all the men in the world, from 10-100, desired them. And they loved it. And they want it to last forever. And we men would want it to last forever too. It’s a normal feeling in a man. And throughout all history (I am quite a history buff, actually), whenever a man has been able to reach a certain position of authority, wealth or achievement, he has taken a young wife when he can and circumstances permit.

Can an AM find and marry a young AW? Yes, but I think there are more forces working against it now than in the past. I did have an AW girlfriend for a while who was 17 yrs younger than me, and yes, it was great. I think it gave me confidence that this could work and this was all OK. There were some forces against it, though. Her own mother was “opposed” to our relationship. Why? She thought I was too old for her daughter, even though her daughter had lived separately and had supported herself for several years. (Her mother was divorced, by the way, so maybe there’s some projected anger at Mr. X, who may himself have married a younger woman??) Her friends in the beginning wanted to know why she was going out with an “older guy”. (I will say, after they met me, they were satisfied, intrigued, and I think even flirting with me. They even wanted to meet any of my “available” friends.) Our relationship ended after a year, but the ending had nothing to do with any “age concerns” that might have been there in the beginning. She herself, by the way, had never said anything about it one way or the other. She was attracted to me and liked me, and vice versa.

You might ask, did wanting a younger woman have anything to do with my interest in women in the FSU? Oh yes, absolutely. I had read and heard that over there, the combination of differences in culture and economics made it more common and more likely to be able to establish relationships with younger women than in the USA. This one fact was the strongest motivator for me in the beginning in deciding to explore the whole world of meeting women in the FSU (which I knew absolutely nothing about, of course). Secondarily, I had also heard and read about how Western men found them to be very feminine, cultured, intelligent, appealing and more traditional in some ways. This was also a positive. However, in the beginning, while I was intrigued by this too, it was a minor, not a major motivator. (This changed over time, by the way.) I was not feeling a strong need for a “traditional” woman per se. I wasn’t just looking for “dates and flings” either. I definitely wanted to get married again, presuming I could find the right woman. Being a bachelor felt unnatural to me. This was true even in my explorations with AWs. I had some experience using internet dating agencies when I started dating AWs again (and discovered the incredible convenience of that whole thing for trying to meet women), so I was “broken-in” on that score.

When I began researching FSU dating/marriage agencies and websites, reviewing the photos and reading the personal statements of the women, I just could not believe my eyes and ears. It was like some unbelievable exotic and intoxicating universe that had somehow been kept secret from Western men for many years. There was not one woman there in a grungy t-shirt and flip-flops asking “will you rock my boat?” My heart raced and my fantasies, desires, dreams and hopes compounded inside me: could this really be – could this really happen? The women were just fantastic, they way they looked, what they said about themselves, how they described the kind of men they were interested in, the kind of lives they desired to lead – intelligent, cultured, feminine, attractive … It seemed just too remote, to impossible, too unreal, and too good(?) to be true. I asked myself, “Would I really pursue this, would I ever really step on that airplane?”

Then I began discovering and reading more about scammers, both women and agencies, and horror stories about guys being used for green cards, quick divorces, and all that. That did put me off for a while. I thought “Ahah! That explains all this.” And, in truth, it does explain some of it.  I also started reading about the negative stereotypes that AW feminists push about Western men that pursue women in other countries: “losers” in their opinion. This bothered me also. I knew by looking at myself in the mirror and assessing my position in life that it wasn’t true. But then I wondered, “Is it possible somehow that I’m the only “normal” guy that is so intrigued by this and all the rest really are losers? But then again, doesn’t that just put me back in the loser bracket anyway?” (I do have quite a bit of Protestant guilt sometimes  ) But it was too late. I just could not put it down. I was hooked.

Feeling somewhat ashamed and doing everything in secret (more Protestant guilt), I took my first few steps to contact some FSU women through the international marriage agencies on the internet. Almost as a cover, but with some sincerity (Hey, don’t burn all your bridges!), I continued dating some local AWs. I never discussed this with anyone. It was a complete secret from all family and friends. I knew they would think I was crazy, and I wasn’t so sure myself. Are these the kind of delusions and obsessions that everyone talks about as “mid life crisis?” (I didn’t know anything about support groups and forums, such as RWD, which would have been very beneficial for me at that time.) I hadn’t started lusting after Lamborghinis, but maybe this was the same thing?

I started writing to some women to see what would happen. And yes, I wrote primarily to women who were in the range of 20 yrs younger than me. When they started to write back, their letters were so real, so pleasant, and in some cases so encouraging, that I froze. I went through some imaginary scammer traumas, and I ended up dropping the whole thing for a while. I feel bad about that now because I know now that these were (mostly) real, wonderful women putting in their time, energy, and in some cases their small amounts of money, sincerely hoping to meet a real gentleman for serious relations. I stopped all communications after my first foray into the field, and can rightfully be accused of being an AM who was “playing” to see what this is all about.

But I could not forget about it. After one month, I returned to my computer with a renewed passion and again opened up communications with some women from a couple of the agencies that had seemed to me more real from the first time. I also realized (although even then not the full extent) that all this was going to cost some serious money. I made a personal commitment to myself that I would spend the money required without complaint and that I would not develop relations with any woman without seriously intending to visit her. No more “playing”. This was real and these were indeed all real women (almost). This endeavor then became the central passion of my life (outside of mandatory work responsibilities and time with my kids) for the next 2 years. During all that time, I never discussed this with any friends or family members.

So, like in the movie “The Matrix,” I had taken the red pill and was now launched into the alternative universe. In this second foray, I was deadly serious and paid very careful attention to who I was writing to and what they were saying to me. I began for the first time calling the ladies by telephone. Oh man, what a wonderful and intoxicating experience that was!! I was actually hearing the delicious accents of those wonderful women with those wonderful voices half way ‘round the world from me, and even getting to know them and like them so much. I can honestly say I was seriously impressed with the quality and sincerity of these ladies. It seemed that the majority of what I had read about them was indeed true! There was no force in the world anymore that could have dissuaded me from continuing my pursuit at this point. I had FSUW fever, big time!

After 6 weeks, it was down to 4 ladies who I liked very much and who seemed to like me. After 8 weeks it was down to 2. I called and talked to each of these two women every day (I still feel a little guilty about this, about pursuing 2 at the same time, even though objectively I sort of knew I had to do something like that). At no time with any of these women was there any discussion about “age.” They never asked me anything about “why do you want a younger woman.” We were just getting to know each other. We had wonderful conversations and they were, IMHO, more interesting than the AWs I had dated - and they did all this in a second language! I was really impressed with the quality through and through of these women. (By the way, the folks at work were starting to wonder why I was always tied up with unknown “conference calls” at around 2pm or 3pm everyday  )

I continued daily correspondence & telephone calls with these two women for about another 8 weeks, repeating many times that I did indeed intend to come and visit them in person. (There are other threads on this website discussing different approaches to this. It worked well for me because I am a bit of a Cyrano de Bergerac, I think.)  The moment of truth had arrived. I had to put up or shut up. I had to make concrete plans to go to Russia. Now. This became quite hilarious because I realized I had no idea what to do. It was complicated to make arrangements to get away from work for a couple weeks (things were real busy at that time). However, I did mange to get through it, got specific dates, and informed each of the ladies separately that I was coming to visit them. I never said anything to one about the other. I scheduled the first week with one lady, and the second week with the other. (I still can get a little twinge of guilt about that, even now.)

I will never forget the day as I long as I live when I first headed off to the airport with my bag to go to Russia for the first time. I was shaking. I was scared. I questioned my own sanity. I felt like “who knows what could happen to me in the FSU?” I lied to my family and friends. I did not say I was going to Russia. I did not say I was going to meet two ladies (especially young ladies) that I was pursuing romantic relations with. I made up some story about where I was going, but I don’t even remember anymore what that story was. I’m sure it was ridiculous. And I realized how stupid it was to go somewhere so far away, so exotic, without telling anyone. If something happened to me there, no one would know. It would be as though I just vanished and there would be no one to rescue me. Was I a stupid puppy or what?  I remember being at JFK waiting for my connecting flight to Moscow, keeping my eyes down, hoping no one noticed me. I remember seeing other men and women there waiting to go to Moscow and thinking, “They are probably looking at me, wondering, who that pervert is going half way around the world to chase young women!” I averted my eyes and hoped the minutes would pass quickly. I noticed a couple other AMs and avoided any opening that might lead to conversation. I didn’t want to be exposed.

By the time we landed at Sheremetyevo, I was sweating with anticipation. I had spent 45 minutes in the little restroom on the airplane trying to shave, wash, and be as presentable as possible upon my arrival. My shoes were shined, slacks pressed and I changed my shirt. Going through passport control on arrival made me feel like I was deep in KGB territory. No one comes up to you and says, “Hi, welcome to Russia!” After finally getting through passport control and customs, I made it to the “other side.” I was astonished with myself. “Wow, I am really here!” was all I could think. Still shaking. I was looking and looking for Tatiana, who was supposed to meet me. Where was she? I realized I had no way of contacting her, or her me, if there had been some problem. Again, quite a dumb puppy here. Finally after 45 minutes, I see her running over to me apologizing for being late. I now know it’s pretty impossible to guarantee you will get anywhere on time going around Moscow. We had a nervous embrace and a little kiss on the cheek. [I should mention, I had made a decision that I was not going to attempt any sexual activity with either of these ladies. I took the idea of pursuing future marital relations very seriously and I didn’t want anyone to think that I was here “chasing skirts.” I could do that for a lot less time and money right back in good ‘ol USA if I wanted.]

And what was my first impression? Oh my G*d! Tatiana was more beautiful, graceful, and wonderful in real than I imagined from her photos, letters, phones calls and emails. I felt instantly in love (watch out for this, guys!), but still very very nervous and shy. We spent a wonderful week together, staying together in the Savoy Hotel in adjacent rooms. (Chastity is expensive!) Toward the end of the week, there were moments when making a physical approach seemed natural and appropriate and seemed as though it was perhaps desired or would be well received by her. Still, I stuck to my plan of “no sex.” I felt that I was falling in love with Tatiana and that I would be happy to cancel my upcoming meeting with Ulyana and spend the second week with Tatiana. However, by that time I knew Ulyana was already on a train on her way to Moscow. I knew she had gone to great lengths to make arrangements to come to see me and would be very disappointed if at such a time I would cancel. I felt no gentleman could that to a fine lady. It was a question of honor. At the end of the week I said goodbye to Tatiana and expected that she and I would continue with our serious relations with great success.

I was clever enough (or so I thought, but perhaps it was obvious) to arrange things so that I was back at the airport in time for Ulyana to meet me there. I felt unpleasantly devious about it, and when we met, I pretended I had arrived in Moscow that day, rather clumsily probably. And what were my first impressions of Ulyana? Oh My Double G*D !! She was so beautiful - much more beautiful than I had been led to expect from her photos. I was truly speechless. It literally took a few minutes to get my breath back. She was (and is) the most beautiful woman in the world I have ever met. I even think she was intentionally concealing her astonishing beauty somewhat with her agency photos, perhaps to narrow down the field a  little to the more sincere men. I mean, I thought her photos were pretty, but in real, she was staggeringly beautiful. I had the distinct impression that she also was pleased with my physical persona and glad that nothing in my photos had been misleading. At least, I like to think so  I certainly had tried hard to look my best on my “arrival day.” I even thought that when other Russian men see me with her (being obviously a foreigner) they will kill me. Ulyana and I spent the week together in adjacent rooms at the Rossiya Hotel, which was not as upscale as the Savoy I found out, but we had the most upgraded level of rooms, so it seemed OK. I didn’t want her to think I was a cheapskate. The only awkward thing that week was pretending that some of the things we were seeing I hadn’t seen before when in fact I had seen them with Tatiana the week before. (I wonder now whether that whole charade was necessary, but at the time, I felt it was, and I didn’t want either lady to feel insulted or diminished in any way about my sincerity for her affections. Again, there are other threads that discuss these things in more depth.) I was glad some waiter in a restaurant didn’t say, “Hi Steve, welcome back!”

My first week with Ulyana was by far the best week of my entire life ever with a woman. I never realized I could enjoy the company of a woman as much as I enjoyed hers. She was astonishing, so intelligent, well educated, cultured, and beautiful, with a great sense of humor. And so feminine, something deeply feminine in a way that my recent AW dates would not be able to comprehend. We laughed, genuinely laughed, together at many things. She thought (and thinks) that I am very funny. (My experience is that FSU ladies have a great sense of humor.) She was feminine and tender in a deep and primal way, like it was part of her blood - natural, organic. There is not a single woman in America that is anything like her. Why? I don’t know. It’s so many things that I could write a book about it (and I’m sure many have). By the end of that week, I was in love (but again, watch out for this, guys!). I was no spring chicken. I understood infatuations, crushes and all that stuff. But this was something that was just ripping me open from deep inside. I think (and know now) that her feelings also had grown more than she had expected. By the end of that week, we both knew that something “had happened here.” Something great. And yes, I did stick to my commitment of “no sex.” I also realize that Ulyana was more or less going to enforce that anyway, and she really appreciated my position on that for our meeting.

So that’s the end of the beginning of the story. Could things have gone any better? No, not for me. Over the next 1 ½ years there were several more visits and meetings with Ulyana’s family and relatives. Ulyana and I got “officially” engaged, got her fiancé visa, got her to America, and got married. When we met, Ulyana was 23 and I was 46. We had our 5th anniversary last November. We are deliriously happy, and like many of the married men here on RWD, I feel I am the luckiest husband in the world. I never imagined marriage could be so different and so much better. This whole experience has transformed my life in immeasurable ways. (Strangely enough, I imagine some Russian men are wondering, “What’s with these American men that think being married to a Russian woman is so wonderful?”)

You might be thinking, “Oh, come on, Steve, you want us to believe that you made one trip to the FSU, visited with two ladies, and found and married the wife of your dreams on the first visit?” I understand your skepticism, but that is indeed what happened. But why did that happen for me? I think three reasons. The first is luck. All the things that could have gone wrong actually broke my way, without me even knowing it. The second, and probably the most important reason, is that I was really ready for this. I had a deep understanding of who I was, what I wanted and needed in a woman, and the kind of marriage and relationship I wanted. Through my many many hours of telephone conversations and letters with just two women (who spoke English fluently), I went deeply and sincerely into these things, not just abstractly, but with real feeling. This accomplished two things: first, women who were not into what I was looking for could figure that out fairly quickly. Second, for women who wanted a man like me, they could see that I was for real and they worked hard to show me who they really were. When I went to Moscow, I was way past the “getting to know someone” phase with these two ladies. I think we both would have said that we felt we new each other with a high level of intimacy.

But, even with zillions of photos, one must confront that moment of actual physical contact. Is there any chemistry? Part of my luck was that neither of the ladies I came to see “over represented” themselves in their photos. And neither did I. It turns out that all of us “under represented” ourselves a little, and then upon meeting, exceeded our already acceptable expectations. (Helpful hint guys: in my profile I said I was an inch shorter than I actually am. It was just a hunch. But when I met these two ladies, they were pleased that I was taller, rather than shorter, than what I had told them.)

Now that Ulyana and I have been happily married for more than 5 years, I can reflect back on where this journey started. Do you remember I said there were two reasons why I was interested in FSUW – the most important being better opportunities for meeting much younger ladies (true confessions here), and a minor point about special qualities of FSU lady culture and values. So, what has made my relations with Ulyana so wonderful and our marriage so successful? Is it motivator #1 or motivator #2? It is, in fact, #2. I have come to realize that, despite my panting passions for a much younger woman in the beginning, only #2 could bring the happiness in marriage that I now enjoy. It is all Ulyana’s other special qualities, and our wonderful man/woman harmony, that makes life so good now. And this is the third reason why things broke my way. It is simply luck that Ulyana was the complete woman she was at only 23 yrs old. Ulyana was more sure of what she wanted than many of the usual FSU ladies her age, who are themselves way ahead of their AW counterparts in this way. Ulyana was not a typical 23 yr old lady, even by FSU standards. I didn’t know that then, but I know that now.

This will sound a lot like “do as I say, not as I do” but if I were to do it again, my most important motivator would be #2, all the special qualities of the bonafide FSUW that creates harmony between the soul of a man and soul of a woman. I would still want a younger woman, but I wouldn’t be focused on a “much younger” woman. If I was still 46, I would probably start my age search in the range of 10yr – 15 yrs younger. Why? I know now that the FSU ladies of that age are just as beautiful. Further, they are much more likely to be ready for me than a lady 23 yrs younger than me. (Actually, come to think of it, this may go away by the time the lady is 30. I mean, if I was 55, I wouldn’t rule out a woman 30 yrs old, especially if she was divorced or had a baby. She knows what she needs and wants, and isn’t going to change her personality in 2 years.) That was my ultimate luck, that Ulyana was really ready for me. In all the most important ways, she is still the same woman now that she was when she was 23, and I’m still her “real man” in all the ways she hoped for and wanted. She hasn’t change a bit about that over these past 7 years. Her personality is extremely stable in that regard. (Don’t forget, though, I didn’t run off for a fiancé visa right after the first week!)

And what would I say to you guys in the “pursuit” stage? I’d say you have to be ready for this. This may sound strange, but the most important part is you, not her. Know yourself. If you met with a psychologist and he told you certain insights he had about your personality, would you debate him, disagree with him, and think he’s full of sh*t? Or would you understand him and see it too? What do you want from your woman? Can you explain that to her? Be a gentleman. And while maybe you can’t say that all FSU ladies deserve respect, respect them all. One of them is your future wife. Be a man of your word. Be a “real man” as they say in Russia (and if you don’t understand that, learn about it). And then, GO FOR IT! I guarantee you, the most wonderful woman in the world is waiting for you to find her in the FSU. She wants to find you as much as you want to find her. Are there risks, dangers, false starts and dead ends? Oh yes, many (read this forum!). But remember, the woman you will love waking up next to in the morning everyday for the rest of your life is there now.

Best post I ever read here Thanks for sharing...all the best to you and your wife.

[Sculpto]

One of my best friends is married to an AW who is going through a relatively early menopause.  This friend told me..

"Marry the youngest woman you can, you do not want to go through this"

[JR]

One of my best friends is married to an AW who is going through a relatively early menopause.  This friend told me..

"Marry the youngest woman you can, you do not want to go through this"

If you go to India you can probably get a 14 y.o. for goat and a cow