Buying or helping buy an apartment in Kiev.

[GregfromGa]

I see now that apartments are roughly 40%-50% what they were several years ago and there doesnt seem to be a light at the end of the tunnel. I'm not looking for myself but rather my sister-in-law and her new husband. He's a good boy. There was a time I really wanted her here but she met a very nice Ukrainian guy and that whole idea of me finding her a nice guy from here went out the window.

Anyways I understand that the dollar is doing better against their money. I've heard that this is just the beginning with the housing market over there. For the guys here that follow the markets and have been there and knows a little about whats going on in your honest opinion, when will be the time to really start looking? We're talking about an apartment for around $40K maybe. I know you cant find this in the center ever probably but why not a year from now? Am I crazy to think so?

[AnastassiaAsh]

If you have extra money, now is the time to buy. I would try to find something closer to downtown of course.

[philb]

You might find some useful info here.

http://209.85.173.100/translate_c?hl=en&sl=ru&u=http://realt.ua/&prev=/search%3Fq%3DRealt.ua%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dopera%26rls%3Den%26hs%3DmPQ&usg=ALkJrhjVsNNPKxq2JnZ2PNYo1L6nifFI_w

[Tamara]

My uncle is a head of a construction firm in Saint Petersburg, Russia.  Here is what I heard from him.  The market is indeed down, a very small number of people are purchasing housing.  The city started buying the apartments in already built houses to help companies cope with economy. Big construction projects are frozen or postponed for the period of at least 9 months.  Even "Moscow City" project (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_International_Business_Center) was postponed in November for at least 6 months.

Dollar is also doing better now.  Central Bank of Russia has already spent one third of its reserve trying to support the Russian currency.

Just a couple ideas for you to consider.

[kievstar]

Do not buy in Kiev yet.  Many of the highend apartments are owned by Europeans who are starting to feel the recession and locals are struggling on debt payments.  Kiev will fall more.  Jobs are leaving the city in thousands per week.  More than 15,000 apartments are open to rent and in the past you had close to no apartments open to rent.

Be careful of units that charge monthly association dues as more people go bankrupt your association dues will go up.  Dollar does not help you very much as the better apartments were always priced in dollars anyways and reason Europeans bought them the last couple years.

Kharkov, Crimea are good buys if you know the right people. 

But you said $40K apartment in Kiev.  Not sure what they will buy.  Most be in very bad shape and / or not close to subway and / or very small even for Ukraine standards.  So maybe you found one that someone is desperate to sell.  Maybe a good deal.  Make sure you have a lawyer look at liens on property.  Unpaid utility bills, association costs, and mortgages can be the liability of the new owner.  So be careful. 

[GregfromGa]

Thanks everyone. Some great ideas but like I said I'm at least a year away before we try and help them. I met a really nice lawyer lady while I was there in September. I would trust her to handle any deal. I tried to set her up with a nice Irish guy I had met at Obriens. I honestly thought they were perfect for eachother. Both no kids, never married, her very intelligent, him a diplomat that had basically cried in his beer telling me that he just wanted to meet a nice girl because he was lonely. This guy had a great job and so did she. I'm telling you that I had almost already made plans to attend the wedding in Ireland this upcoming summer. It never happened. He never called her or emailed her. I felt like a smuck. I've tried setting people up several times and it never works out. I should probably just stop.

Anyways the girl sells real estate and she will help us when we start. She knows I really tried to help her the one time I ever met her. How lucky is this place? We have the two brightest and  prettiest translators in the business posting here.

[Brianinaz]

A year from now is a long time away given the current environment. Even with the drop in prices recently I think you will have a hard time finding something in a good district for 40K. Prices in Kiev over the last 5 or 6 years have basicly quadrupled.

If you were to find something one of the things you will have to deal with is how to get the money into the country. You can't bring that much cash with you and at least at the moment transfering from your bank to a bank there is probably not a good idea (at least at the moment). I just returned and the banks have "frozen" pretty much everyone's private bank accounts.

Most deals are done in cash and in USD. I'm sure it all can be done but boy you better do your homework and have someone looking over everyone's shoulder.

[ECOCKS]

A year from now is a long time away given the current environment. Even with the drop in prices recently I think you will have a hard time finding something in a good district for 40K. Prices in Kiev over the last 5 or 6 years have basicly quadrupled.

If you were to find something one of the things you will have to deal with is how to get the money into the country. You can't bring that much cash with you and at least at the moment transfering from your bank to a bank there is probably not a good idea (at least at the moment). I just returned and the banks have "frozen" pretty much everyone's private bank accounts.

Most deals are done in cash and in USD. I'm sure it all can be done but boy you better do your homework and have someone looking over everyone's shoulder.

I'll be back in Kyiv in a couple of weeks and will float around the question to a couple of realtors concerning just what I can buy if I had a bag containing $40,000 USD.  The answer should be interesting one way or the other.

[corp]

Thanks everyone. Some great ideas but like I said I'm at least a year away before we try and help them. I met a really nice lawyer lady while I was there in September. I would trust her to handle any deal. I tried to set her up with a nice Irish guy I had met at Obriens. I honestly thought they were perfect for eachother. Both no kids, never married, her very intelligent, him a diplomat that had basically cried in his beer telling me that he just wanted to meet a nice girl because he was lonely. This guy had a great job and so did she. I'm telling you that I had almost already made plans to attend the wedding in Ireland this upcoming summer. It never happened. He never called her or emailed her. I felt like a smuck. I've tried setting people up several times and it never works out. I should probably just stop.

Thats funny, I have tried to help set people up with ladies I knew to be
legit and couldn't get any takers either. Maybe guys like the crap-shoot of agencies?



Anyways the girl sells real estate and she will help us when we start. She knows I really tried to help her the one time I ever met her. How lucky is this place? We have the two brightest and  prettiest translators in the business posting here.

[kievstar]

Update from Ukraine (mostly Kiev area) as I was just in Kiev for Valetines Day.

The government is giving loans to builders to finish construction on 140,000 apartments which are partially built and developers ran out of money to finish.  Additional money is going to customers to buy.  There are also now more than 100,000 apartments available for rent as in past closer to zero (this number is increasing weekly).  What does this all mean?  Over supply and lower prices are coming.

Buy in 3 years.  Right now would be foolish unless your building a retirement home.  Retirement home is big business right now in Ukraine and new billionaires will be made from this. 

Do not trust any realtor or construction company.  They will tell you now to buy.  There is no reason why prices would go up in the future.  Only reasons to go down.

[2tallbill]

I see now that apartments are roughly 40%-50% what they were several years ago and there doesnt seem to be a light at the end of the tunnel. I'm not looking for myself but rather my sister-in-law and her new husband. He's a good boy. There was a time I really wanted her here but she met a very nice Ukrainian guy and that whole idea of me finding her a nice guy from here went out the window.

Anyways I understand that the dollar is doing better against their money. I've heard that this is just the beginning with the housing market over there. For the guys here that follow the markets and have been there and knows a little about whats going on in your honest opinion, when will be the time to really start looking? We're talking about an apartment for around $40K maybe. I know you cant find this in the center ever probably but why not a year from now? Am I crazy to think so?

Two points
First, I know that Pavel does real estate deals, and you couldn't find a more
trust worthy guy in Kiev. Plus I know you know him

Second, It's impossible to buy at the bottom of any market or to sell at the
top. So if you see something that you think is a good value, then tie it up.
Maybe get a one year option (if something like that exists in the FSU)

Just my two kopecks,


Bill