Hero's Quest

[XMan]

Looking back at the past 3.5 years, I have run the gamut of emotions.  Excitement, paranoia, laughter, self-doubt, faith, lack thereof, confidence, exasperation, you name it. 

More recently I've spent more time than I care to admit like this -- 
 

For the experienced and successful gentleman out there, did you seriously consider throwing in the towel at some point?  If so, how close were you? 

One of my favorite twists on a cliche is "winners never quit, and quitters never win, but those who never win and never quit are idiots."  I'm really beginning to feel I'm falling into that category. 

After a variety of disappointments (some more protracted than others), and more recent scammer experiences (which wasted my time rather than money), I'm beginning to wonder what the heck it takes to be successful.  Sure, follow the commandments, date in one's league, be careful but not paranoid, get on a plane, persevere, etc., etc.  I get all that. 

Does it simply come down to this:  luck? 

Do I need to wear a cape, burn some incense, and chant the RWD mantra during a full moon?
Build a model of Stone Henge and dance around it naked? 
Run backwards barefoot through a snowstorm? 
(Can you sense the aforementioned exasperation?) 

I have no faith in fate, and no belief in destiny.  One makes ones own destiny, or at least to the degree that one has control over events in life (which sometimes, admittedly, seems minimal). 

Maybe this is down cycle, but <insert your favorite choice of profanity>, I'm not getting any younger. 
Perhaps I've been trying too hard this year (with the not getting any younger thoughts knocking against my skull). 

I've had several very nice, very well meaning folks (men and women) offer encouragement and assistance.  Unfortunately nothing came of it, but I greatly appreciated it (and you folks know who you are -- thank you).

I don't know.  I'm stepping back, trying to analyze it, and it there is no discernible pattern, no algorithm, no magic potion (that I'm aware of), and I'm scratching my head wondering WTF it takes. 

Maybe there's no answer and I'm just venting. 

[ECOCKS]

Sorry you're down.

This works for people who are realistic and can pull their head outta....well, focus.

If you can afford international dating with the intent to find a long-term relationship there is no reason you cannot do so. Just be realistic about yourself, your resources and your goals.

Best of luck and here's hoping you get what you deserve.

[groovlstk]

For the experienced and successful gentleman out there, did you seriously consider throwing in the towel at some point?  If so, how close were you? 

Absolutely. On the trip to Moscow to meet the chat pal who is now my wife, I told several friends here that if things didn't work out I was done chasing the moon. I was sick of blowing every available vacation day travelling, sick of pro daters and agencies and taxi drivers and every person who saw me as a potential mark. At that point I'd made about 10 trips and had just begun dating local RW. I was questioning my own sanity and expectations.

Things worked out for me on that trip, and in the years since I realized there was nothing unusual about the process taking so long - having other expectations is inevitable but unrealistic. People dating within their own countries don't propose marriage after a week with someone who doesn't share their language or expect to date 10 women over the course of a week and propose marriage to the best candidate.

So much comes down to managing your expectations.

[XMan]

Absolutely. On the trip to Moscow to meet the chat pal who is now my wife, I told several friends here that if things didn't work out I was done chasing the moon. I was sick of blowing every available vacation day traveling, sick of pro daters and agencies and taxi drivers and every person who saw me as a potential mark. At that point I'd made about 10 trips and had just begun dating local RW. I was questioning my own sanity and expectations.

Glad to hear I am not alone, and that someone has been there before.

I guess the perfect storm has resulted in me hitting the wall (2 cliches in one sentence).  Right now the towel is within arms reach and it won't take much to throw it in.  (and he succeeds in squeezing in a third cliche.)

[remiel6]

On the bright side you are mastering the art of cliches 
I certainly think luck has a lot to do with it, at least in my case, but I might also add that while managing your expectations, I personally think, it is important to remember that there is no "one way" of it working. There are people here who have met and married (or are engaged to be married  ) to people they met on websites that everyone will tell you to avoid. There are people who have succeeding in many different ways. This process like any other cannot be told "how its suppose to work". It will tell you. One day it will happen, but you have to be willing to let it happen. stick with it IMO its worth it.

[kievstar]

You have to remember that this is not a game or about luck.  Sometimes people try to make things happen rather than let them happen naturally.

I will say for me it was easy but I made time to be in Ukraine a lot.  For the guys who can only visit 4-5 times a year I think it is harder.

[Ludmila]

Xman, don't panic, please.
You must have been stepping on the same rakes time and again. Don't give up, please. Stop and catch your breath.

Make a ruthless analysis of yourself and  your demands.

Also important:may be, you need to change criteria for your assessment of the "homework done" prior to the visit.

I have a supposition:  may be you tend to make your visits happen too soon, BEFORE both of you are sure you are into each other. I also think you have visited the ladies with very low motivation for marriage.

THE LADY'S HIGH MOTIVATION IS A MUST. AND IT IS YOUR COMMON SENSE,NOT ONLY HER WORDS THAT SHOULD CONVINCE YOU AND MAKE YOU MORE OR LESS SURE (although nothing's  guaranteed in this life, yet, there are more obvious and less obvious facts that should be known to you in each particular case).

Don't try to justify what seems odd and illogical in her behavior FROM THE VERY START. Bring your wishful thinking to a minimum ( but try to not give up dreams!)

If you followed the advice"hop on the plane and go'", now you can see it doesn't work FOR YOU ( unlike others).
Do you homework. I will be glad to help you off list. Please, cheer up. It does take time!

[NJ]

Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up.
Thomas A. Edison

[SMS60]

Would you care to elaborate more??

It sounds as if you have a do or die mentality towards this. Maybe you are trying to hard? You might be using tunnel vision on the process? Let things "flow".

In the initial stages of corresponding with the women try to keep your mind busy here at home. Like to continue to date other women ( if possible) from your area. This helps keep things in perspective.

[Ludmila]

I will say for me it was easy but I made time to be in Ukraine a lot.  For the guys who can only visit 4-5 times a year I think it is harder.
[/quote]

My husband visited me only 1 time. But there was a HUUUUUUGE homework done prior to the visit. Both on my part, and his.

[XMan]

<Would you care to elaborate more??>

Thousands of profiles reviewed.
High-end full-service agencies, limited service agencies, and free sites.
Hundreds of letters written / received.
Web / phone conversations. 
Visits were anything from "I will be visiting, are you interested in meeting" (the let's roll the dice approach) to literally over 100 pages and 6 months of communication with a single woman prior to visiting.
WOVO and WMVM. 
6 trips. 
 
If things weren't clicking in communication, I stopped. 
Other fish in the sea. 
If behavior was suspect, I stopped.
If things were working, I continued. 
With the exception of height and weight, which I had minimums and maximums on, and no smoking, I was open to pretty darn near all variables in education, language ability, etc.

This is not something I went into with my eyes closed. 
It is about as thorough and reasonable approach (or more accurately, broad range of approaches) as I can imagine. 

An inordinate amount of luck may indeed be required. 
But that is something I have little influence over.

[Faux Pas]

Xman

FWIW I am of the opinion that you can indeed look too hard just as you can do locally. I don't know if this is the case with you but it does appear that you have given it "the ole college try". I am certainly not suggesting that you stop fishing the waters but I would suggest to lower your expectations and your yardstick of success.

You've communicated with and met many women so the adventure could indeed be considered a success. The idea that you haven't found a wife to date could actually be a blessing in disguise. There is a woman out there for you but you'll never find her if you'd married one of the earlier ones. Relax, quit beating yourself up. You may never find her in the FSU or you may never find her at all. However, I fully expect if you keep looking she'll be there and the one you least expected. My Ole Grandpappy used to say "theres a butt for every bucket".

[XMan]

Point taken, F.P.

Maybe at the very least it's time for a breather.   
It's beginning to feel like a second occupation. 

[Phil dAmore]

X Man:

It comes down to asking yourself what it is that you really want.  Do you want it enough to make the sacrifices and changes necessary to make it all happen?  If so, then you stand a good chance at success.

Go into it half- hearted or wishy-washy and the chances of success diminish greatly.

[Johnny2009]

Point taken, F.P.

Maybe at the very least it's time for a breather.   
It's beginning to feel like a second occupation. 

Hi

Sorry I have not read all your previous posts, but wanted to ask you a question "which sites/agencies" have you tired? Have you been looking in the wrong place or chasing the wrong type of girl?

Don't give up dude!

[Misha]

For the experienced and successful gentleman out there, did you seriously consider throwing in the towel at some point?  If so, how close were you? 

No, because it did not take that long and I did not find it that hard. I met my wife within a couple of months of seriously looking while being in Russia. Maybe I was just lucky  :noidea:

Does it simply come down to this:  luck?

No, I would say that it comes down to meeting enough eligible women and having realistic expectations. 

I don't know.  I'm stepping back, trying to analyze it, and it there is no discernible pattern, no algorithm, no magic potion (that I'm aware of), and I'm scratching my head wondering WTF it takes.

Well, the pattern may be there, but you may not see it. The question I would have is how an where you were looking and what exactly you wanted to find and what you though that you have to give back in return.  

[XMan]

<Go into it half- hearted or wishy-washy and the chances of success diminish greatly.>

Seems like an odd remark considering what I've listed here as things I have done. 
6 trips hardly seems half-hearted or wishy-washy. 

[Faux Pas]

<Go into it half- hearted or wishy-washy and the chances of success diminish greatly.>

Seems like an odd remark considering what I've listed here as things I have done. 
6 trips hardly seems half-hearted or wishy-washy. 

Xman
Quit beating yourself up my friend. In the ways of love and romance you can only give it all you got. From your description, you've done that. Don't quit hammering. Put your best out there and feel good about it. It will happen in it's own time. Nobody has any clue as to how, where,why or when

[Phil dAmore]

X Man

My comment was of a more general nature.  I know of many men who make lots and lots of trips and seem to be doing everything correctly, yet they don't find success.  Upon closer inspection I have found that almost without exception these men do not have the the mental commitment that IMO is required to be successful in this endeavor.

It's sort of like what one has to go through simply to visit Russia... the invitation, visa, registration... it's not something you can just pick up and go to.  You have to really want to visit Russia and be prepared to endure the gauntlet that involves getting that visa.   

The OP was not meant to dis you nor make light of your commitment.  I was merely illustrating a point.

FWIW you say that you don't believe in fate or destiny.   I am certain that you are aware that belief in the same plays a huge part in the lives of FSU women.

Don't give up, but you might want to re examine  your priorities.

[Jumper]

My input:

Compare it to dating in your own country  with the goal of marriage.


Could you make a set plan, met one certain person that you spent time exchang info, thoughts, and ideas with thru email or phone,
or meet a bunch of people,
and have any idea if it would work out with any of them?
no.
It could ,,but just as likely that it wouldn't.
no magic bullet.

realistic expectations and keeping your head on straight would help guide you here or there.
and wether successful at first or not,you'd likely keep meetng people.

I feel International dating adds to the complexity, and expense.
but wether there or here, you'll keep meeting people.
if you have the time ,and its within your means,, why not?

Expanding your dating pool,in any way,
 isnt going to hurt your chances of meeting the right person.it does increase it!
but with that ,it will expose you to more people who arnt right for you as well.just like anywhere else..?

[392ihc]

I know full-well how you feel.  I have been there, done that. And ultimately found myself facing the same decision you now face.  You can even go back through my previous posts and read many of your same words....August of this year in Odessa.

After returning home I sort of gave up most of my expectations and just decided to meet some women for fun and chat some online.  Nothing serious...just some casual banter.  I was tired of all the serious criteria I had for this woman I search for, spending too much money, too much time, too many scammers, etc.  One day in August a woman from Moscow wrote something silly to me on the dating site I used.  She wrote asking me to marry her!  I thought....this could be fun to see what direction she will go with this if I reply!  So, I wrote her back and said I would certainly marry you but I ask you to send me some photos before the wedding so I will recognize you at the altar!  I received pictures, we chatted off and on, later we began live-mesenger with web cams, phone calls, sms, etc.  Now, as I write this to you I am in Moscow in an apartment she is sharing with me!  She is gone this afternoon to her mother's flat so I have an opportunity to read some posts here.  We have been together here for more than a week.  Next week we go by train to St. Petersburg for a week and then return to Moscow.  We both moved into this place, bought groceries, she cooks, I clean, we sleep (once in a while).  She takes me on the metro to all the great places of Moscow and recently we have talked about what we will do when my visa expires and I must leave Russia........

But this post is not really about her.  It is about kind of "giving up" some or most of my expectations, my criteria, my intense search, my seriousness and just going into things for some fun!  Is it luck?  Maybe a little.  For me I think I usually try too hard at things in life and always back off a bit when I hit the wall, so to speak.  Whether you believe in fate, destiny, providence, luck or whatever, sometimes life has a flow which is impossible to control and I find myself swimming against the current.  Better to quit and just allow the current to take you just a little.

She and I have already spoken about my return to Russia.  She is already worried I will not be allowed a second visa......nothing I read suggests this is really a valid concern except in her head.  She has never dated an American man before me.  One man from Western Europe came to see her.  Her English is really very good--certainly better than my Russian.  I ask her daily to teach me words in Russian and she does this and I teach her more English.

So, my advice is yes, give up some but not all.  Just search for someone to have a little fun with--even if you never meet them.  I also think many of the RW I wrote to in the past could "read between my lines" at my intensity and probably were a bit frightened by it....  This woman was attracted to my humor and curious response.

Let us know, please, as you decide to continue to engage life!

[HiTech]

xman wrote.

Does it simply come down to this:  luck? 

It is absolutely luck, you can only try to increase the odds.

Alyona was the last woman I was meeting (of about 20) on the trip, and I had decided if I did not meet someone that trip, it was time for a year break.

P.S. My wife is telling men in classic FSUW form, YOU MUST GO TO KHARKOV .

Good luck,but sounds like it might be time for a break.

HiTech

[XMan]

<P.S. My wife is telling men in classic FSUW form, YOU MUST GO TO KHARKOV Smiley .>

Been once.  Wasn't too successful, although made a few friends.