Another example of agency shenanigans

[Journeyman]

May I offer this one to the group?  BTW, Dan, you can relocate this topic to another category -- as you see fit.  I post it here to get the attention of the veterans.

Recently, I saw a new attempt by a somewhat infamous RW in St. Petersburg to snare a few more greenhorns.  Her cover was blown years ago in a post on RWG by an acquaintance of mine (whom I met on an AFA tour back in 2001). Here is the link for her most current enticement:

http://www.elenasmodels.com/index.php?ap=209063

This is the somewhat infamous Olga Sushchutoplaya.  She has been around for a long time on various web sites.  I remember seeing her first back in 2001 or 2002 on the IKAR agency site, and then the CLASSIC agency site (both Russian-owned agencies in St. Pete).  Soon thereafter, she appeared on the AFA site, and one or two others.

In the summer of 2002 (IIRC), this acquaintence (a guy named James from Texas -- anybody remember him?  He disappeared by 2003), posted on RWG that he saw her (somehow??? :noidea:) on the White Nights Escort Agency web site.  He posted the link, and sure enough, as the world could see, there was Olga, in all her glory, soliciting business as an escort.  No big shock to the cognoscenti, but another confirmation about the all that we already know.  No doubt she was a big seller at the agencies (look at her photo).  But, poor Olga, somehow she could just never find anyone who was permanently interested in her 44-23-35 figure.  Eventually, she dropped off most web sites, and IIRC, was even booted off the AFA site (to their credit) when they did a major "housecleaning" regarding such things, circa 2003.  

Now, the recrudescent escort is at it again.  And, oh, does she have the salesmanship down now.  Just read her self-description and "personal message."  A real pro --in more ways than one.  

Anyway, I saw her new profile on Elena's Models about 2 months ago as a "new profile."  Ok, I knew what was going on, and I presumed that Elena does too.  Anyway, I decided to have some fun with her (Elena, that is).  I emailed Elena, telling her that she has this "potential problem," and tell her all about Olga and her past.  I invited Elena to reply to me, and share her "concern."    Then, I wait, and wait and wait.  And, shockinly, no response from Elena.    So, knowing that our Jack Bragg holds himself out as having an interest in such things, I send him the same email (realizing that he also used to be partnering with the Classic Agency in St. Pete -- where Olga was profiled for years).  But, once again, no reply!?? :huh::noidea:

So, I thought I'd now offer it up to you guys.  As we know, this is probably one escort among hundreds (or thousands?) on the agency sites.  So, none of us are going to lose any sleep over this.  And, naturally, Olga will continue to do what she does for another 5 years or so (until gravity hands her the pink slip).  And, no, I doubt that she is turning over a new leaf.

Why do I post this?  My interest is this.  I am so tired of Elena's Models being held up as a paradigm of virtue among agencies, that I'm now wanting to solicit your ideas as to a sensible way to do what we do here so well -- try to keep at least one more newbie from losing his savings.  Elena used to seem responsible.  I was fairly impressed with her at one time -- when she and I talked for a while on the phone about my own GCG back in 2002.  However, it now seems clear to me that Elena fell prey to the Dark Side a while ago, and may now need a little help to do the right thing.

Not too long ago, Andrew engaged in a lively exchange with her on RWG, and seemingly got her to shape up a bit with respect to how she was profiling her ladies.  Kudos, Andrew.    But it seems that perhaps she can only be motivated now by being exposed in that way.    

Ideas?  I yield the floor.

Journeyman

[anono]

hi journeyman, i do not know when you wrote to jack but he is here in kiev until monday. he gets to his email about every three days and for the time being, is only taking care of urgent situations. i am sure once he returns to the usa, he will get back to you, or you might want to write again in case it got lost in all the email. he is a junkyard dog when it comes to scammers.

also, my understanding of elena's models are that most of the ladies are "high maintenance" types who are looking for the top dollar. nothing wrong with this of course, since most women with similar looks do the same in the usa, they just do not use an agency.

i would write elena's models and inform them you post on the web and you will share your story (as you have here) with thousands of people. i have used this method in the past, even invoking the name "jack bragg" and if they have heard of him, they usually either disappear or do something about it.

speaking about agencies, i tried to use one in poltava, "ukrainian-women.com" or "alice". whenever i called to ask to come to the office, they would ask my name and once they realized i do not write to their women and use their services in that manner, they tell me they are too busy or have no interpreters. i think they are only interested in the men who spend time and money using the email forwarding service and do not take to kindly to those coming in off the street. the other two agencies i used in poltava "european angels" and "L&A" had open doors and were happy to help.

[andrewfi]

That a woman in a marriage agency is also, where the opportunity exists, is also a hooker is no great surprise. During the period of my life when I was spending a lot of time in Saint Petersburg I met, knew, went out with many women who were interested in foreign guys (We should always remember that MOST women are not interested them!). I found many, many instances where the woman I met and went out with was also on an MOB site, some of them also, I found out later, were on escort sites, or working the clubs. Some of the hookers I met were also on MOB sites.

Since that time, here in Estonia, the organised agency business is much less active but the women who are actively seeking foreign guys (again, a small minority) so often take the shilling for their favours that it is no longer funny! I become increasingly disillusioned when I meet a woman in ordinary social circumstances and then meet her again, weeks or months later importuning for favours. It happened again just this weekend.:?

As to Elena's Models, they buy their profiles and accept internet applications - they are a content aggregator, they do not produce their own product. They are in the business of selling women (or for the squeamish - their pictures, just look at the web site - need to pay to see the pics, just like a porn site!). WHy should the firm be any different to any other, indeed, given their business model, how can they be. I have no animus against the firm, it is simply doing what it does and for sure is probably not doing anything illegal.

To be realistic, if a man is seeking a woman through ANY agency, he is going to meet women of a 'certain type'. They are not representative of their peers. Just as it is possible to marry a woman who was a hooker and be happy with her forever, so it is possible with a woman from an agency. But, given that on must first have gotten past the professsional daters, the invisible women and busy girls (what I have called the 'Pareto Girls'), before finding a woman, of whatever character who actually exists and wants to leave the country, I reckon most guys end up with the first real woman who they date.

Perhaps the paragraph above leads me to the conclusion that there is a difference between the small town girls, so loudly praised by some, and the big city girls. The first group never had the opportunity to practice professionally that which the second group does as a matter of course, albeit, possibly, not as a full time career!

For all those guys happily married to a woman they obtained through an agency - I am sure your wife is a paragon, a jewel beyond price and absolutely an exception, unlike her agency sisters in almost every respect apart from her gender!:)

[anono]

hi andrew, your last line made me laugh..thanks...  so true!

anyway, i think i posted about a man in kiev who bought the services of a prostitute only to meet her again that evening. she was one of two women another man had found at an agency. i can only imagine the looks that were exchanged at this second meeting.

i have nothing against prostitutes, most are at least more honest about their objectives than most agency ladies and i am sure some would make a great wife if you are able to accept their past (not for me).

so far the only woman i met at an agency that i liked happened to be the director of the agency. she is not looking for a foreign man but we hit it off and spent a little time together talking about the average client. if some of you guys only knew. i will get around to posting my experiences once i return from ukraine.

[Maxx]

My biggest complaint with EP is her down playing immigration scams and women for marriage with bad intentions.

When got into this almost 5 years ago I had no envolvement with message boards except a few whose concern was how fast it is to import a RW, timelines etc. It was the Russian women's Cyber Guide by Elena Petrova that was my source for information. She offered cautionary words here and there and seamingly good reassurance where it was needed. So off I went to Russia like a sheep to the slaughter.

To give you example of Elena's reassurance I post her article here in part.
 

Immigration Scams:


By Elena Petrova
Immigration scams: ARE YOU AT RISK?

Any - and I mean it! - ANY MAN who even remotely considers the idea of marrying a Russian woman will face the question of immigration scams. By "facing the question of immigration scams" I mean worrying about the possibility that a woman will marry him with the only purpose of gaining residence to his country, and will divorce him soon after the marriage.
How grounded is this worry? General opinion is that the danger of an immigration scam is high in marriages with foreign women. Try to share the idea of finding a marriage partner abroad with your family and friends, and everyone will think you are nuts and are setting yourself up to become an immigration vehicle for a cunning Russian girl.

Is it true that there are many Russian women that will marry a man only for the purpose of immigration? Why does such an opinion persist among the general public? How common are immigration scams in marriages with Russian women?

First of all, let's find out where one gets all those ideas about scams in marriages with foreign women. Did you have any friends, family members or colleagues that married Russian women and fell victims of immigration scams? Most likely, NO! So your ideas about high probability of immigration scams in marriages with foreign women are, most often, based on what you have read, heard or seen in the Media -- and of course you know what makes the news and what's not: When was the last time you have seen a "happily ever after" fairy tale on the front page of a newspaper? Scandals, murders, and scams make the news; happy marriages don't. In the USA alone it's about four to six thousand men that marry foreign women every year; how many scandal stories you hear for the same period of time? Apparently, if immigration scams in marriages with foreign women were indeed such a problem, you would have heard horror stories much more often, and, eventually, your government would do something about it.

In fact, it is NOT so many Russian women that seek somebody abroad with the only purpose to use marriage as the means to immigrate to the USA or any other country. It is only women who are absolutely desperate that would contemplate such a marriage, and those women are seldom objects of desire for any man.

A woman that is desired by a foreign man is usually a woman who can exercise some choice among her suitors, and she would rather select a mate who is suitable for her than just marry anybody: once she is in a foreign country, and divorced from her husband, what will she do? Live a lonely life of an immigrant - a person of "second sort", struggling to make ends meet, without any connections, family and friends, having to look for a new love partner - does this prospective looks any brighter to you than a prospective of having a loving happy marriage and stable life? Apparently, finding a suitable mate will take much less time for a woman in Russia than the process of going through marriage to an unsuitable mate, following immigration and divorce, and settling in her new single life. Do you think Russian women are all crazy masochists? Any reasonable human being would prefer to receive "the full package" including love and stability, without the need to go through unnecessary pain and change. It is simply unrealistic to think many Russian women would prefer to contemplate an immigration scam, i.e. marrying a man with the only purpose of immigration and subsequent divorce, rather than marrying for love and receiving "the full package". All human beings are made in the same way: we all want to be happy and do not want to suffer. Russian women are no different.

So the cases of real immigration scams should be rare among Russian women marrying foreign men, I mean the cases where women initially intended to divorce their husbands after the immigration, before even being married to them. Try to picture yourself in a relationship with somebody you don't like, and spending 1-2-3 years of your life in such a situation, would you willingly select such a fate, when you could be involved with somebody you really like and receive the same benefits? This is why I say that it is only a desperate person who would decide on an immigration scam, the person who cannot exercise any choice. And the reason why she does not have any choice is because no one wants her. So, by selecting an attractive woman to start a relationship with and competing for their attention with other suitors, men in a great extent secure themselves against desperate persons. Therefore, the explicit type of immigration scams where a person starts a relationship with somebody only to gain permanent residence to a western country is not that common in marriages with Russian women.

(then she give some good advice to really get to know the person and so on.)



[align=left][/align]

[align=left]Yours,
Elena Petrova[/align]
[align=left]
[line]
[/align][/size][/font]
There is no mention of the consequences marrying the wrong woman. Such as painful and costly divorce with a wife who can make a dependancy claim "spousal maintance" with language difficulties and an FSU education that does not carry over well into a Western business environment. The Affidavit of Support that though not enforced can be used by her attorney as a lever in a divorce claim for support. False Domestic Violence charges to secure a Green Card and a perminent criminal record for the husband if (usually) convicted of a criminal (mine was civil) charge. There is no mention of the real risks. IMO if she really cared about her male clients she would lay out the risks.

IMO Elena Petrova soft pedals her product because it maximises her profits. I quite understand her doing it but I can't say I approve of this.

Maxx

  

 

[Rando]

"As to Elena's Models, they buy their profiles and accept internet applications - they are a content aggregator, they do not produce their own product. They are in the business of selling women (or for the squeamish - their pictures, just look at the web site - need to pay to see the pics, just like a porn site!). WHy should the firm be any different to any other, indeed, given their business model, how can they be. I have no animus against the firm, it is simply doing what it does and for sure is probably not doing anything illegal."

 

Ive always thought this about EM....when you gotta pay to see more than one photo...then she is not on the marriage agency business but another one altogether. She cares about making money from guys wanting to see more than one photo.

That alone puts her on par with other questionable agencies such a Confidential Connections who from personal experience had a reported scammer and did nothing becasue she was a cash cow.

Beware of the wolf in sheeps clothing.

[al-c]

Of course Elena Petrova is going to make money by whatever way rakes it in the fastest.  We guys pay for the pics, and she responds by concentrating the money in those pics.  EP is a shrewd businesswoman and always has been, long before she created EM.

As for scams, even the most well run RW site is going to get penetrated by a scammer.  So don't let one scammer sour you on the whole site.  I, for one, like the fact that you get the lady's address and e-mail up front, unlike sites who keep it secret so they can make money every time you send your lady a letter.  The down side is that your communication is not moderated by the agency, so you are strictly on a caveat emptor basis with your lady.  You are also on your own for translation.

I used the moderated ones too.  I liked having the translation, especially when you go there to meet your lady.  The translators are consummate professionals who know how to make you feel comfortable with having them around and being privy to your personal and intimate conversation.  I just didn't like the fact that the agency owners had money coming to them to get you to write and call more often because it doesn't exactly put their business interests in you getting married and therefore no longer using them.

 

[KenC]

Just FYI, the profile link posted comes up "not available" now.

KenC