dual nationalities

[CallMeSasha]

Hi/privet

sorry if this has been covered before (i tried searching to no avail) anyway, my question is........

If a child was born in the UK and had dual-nationality (UK & RF) how does this work? does the child need to have an internal passport to accompany their international passport?

If yes, does this mean the russian authorities view the passport holder as a russian national living abroad? (as the internal passport lists them as living at an address in RF)

If no, is the passport effectively a "ten year unlimited visa"?

what are the pros & cons of dual nationality

thanks/spasibo

[Aloe]

as far as i know, you need internal passport to get your international passport, so you have to get it. Not sure about children though. You get internal passport at the age of 14 normally. If you have permanent registration in Russia, russian authorities consider you living in Russia. Travel passport is only good for 5 years by the way, not 10.
The pro of dual nationality is you will need way less visas travelling around the world showing a different passport on every border, one of the cons is that some countries specifically say, if you get in trouble in a country that you are a citizen of, beside our country, we will not help you in that country. I dont know if the UK has that policy.
If you have a russian passport, Russia considers you a russian citizen, no matter how many other citizenships you have, they are not recognized by Russia

[CallMeSasha]

many thanks for replying Aloe.

"i've been told" that the passports are changing from 5 to 10 years.

i'm a little confused - so if you need an internal passport to get an international passport hows does this affect those under-14? would they travel under their mother's passport?

the UK also won't offer assistance to you if you get into trouble in another country of which you are a dual-national (hence i am not too keen on the idea!)

and so, as you say if russia doesn't recognise other nationalities, where would i stand if the mother took the child to russia against my wishes? would i be helpless to get access to the child if the mother didn't want me to?

edit to add - just to clarify, to have an internal passport you need to be registered at a permanent address in RF? (therefore to have a Russian passport you need an internal passport, for which you need a permanent address in russia)

[Aloe]

many thanks for replying Aloe.

"i've been told" that the passports are changing from 5 to 10 years.

i'm a little confused - so if you need an internal passport to get an international passport hows does this affect those under-14? would they travel under their mother's passport?

the UK also won't offer assistance to you if you get into trouble in another country of which you are a dual-national (hence i am not too keen on the idea!)

and so, as you say if russia doesn't recognise other nationalities, where would i stand if the mother took the child to russia against my wishes? would i be helpless to get access to the child if the mother didn't want me to?

edit to add - just to clarify, to have an internal passport you need to be registered at a permanent address in RF? (therefore to have a Russian passport you need an internal passport, for which you need a permanent address in russia)

little children get added to their parents' passports without needing their own passport.
you can get internal passport just with a temporary registration, dont need a permanent one.
i dont have a clue about your rights to the baby in Russia, i guess it depends on who is written as the baby's father, i think you can put a dash in there, then the mother is the only person who has a say, and also is your marriage registered in Russia, because if you marry abroad and dont register your marriage certificate in Russia, then you are unmarried in Russia still, that would not help fighting for a baby cuz as far as they know, you are just some random dude and not her husband

[CallMeSasha]

G! "a random dude" 

maybe i'm right to be a bit paranoid over the child having dual-nationality!

i guess that if as our marriage isn't registered in RF & that they don't recognise dual-nationality, i wouldn't have a leg to stand on if the worst-case scenario happened?

do you think it is important for the child's identity/culture to have dual-nationality?

many thanks

[Aloe]

if you are paranoid about your wife taking a baby away, then you should not be having babies in the first place and work on your relationship instead
i think dual nationality is a good idea, my babies will definitely have it, you never know it might be that the country im living in could become an unsuitable place to live (war, natural disasters, civil unrest, complete economical collapse, whatever), then id like to be able to take my babies to a safe place, not to mention not having to get visas every time we wanna visit family,
i dont think its important for culture and identity what passport you have though, its all about how you are raised

[CallMeSasha]

thanks for the reply.

let me explain my paranoia  exactly the worst case scenario happened to my wife's russian friend living in another EU country. she took her child back to RF against father's wishes - he did everything he could through the courts to no avail. (she was wanted by interpol)

my concerns are what if something happened to my wife while in RF with the child - i'd be powerless to stop the state or the grandparents taking custody. also (as much as i wish  ) i can't predict the future & what is there stop my wife one day ending the relationship and taking the child to RF?

on thing that is for certain is the present, and yes that comes down to trust - however aim i being fair by wanting equal status & identity to that child? (by equal status i refer to Russia only viewing the child only as a Russian national)

[BC]

About the best one can do is hope that RU participates in the Hague Convention regarding parental rights.  IIRC they are not a signatory, thus difficult to fight for custody.

One thing I remember is that I had to agree for our child to have RU citizenship, as did my wife for our other citizenships.. yes in all three.

The children usually get included in the mothers passport (s).

Some things in life can't be guaranteed so you just have to accept them and work instead on your relationship trust issues.

If you have been married only a few years your thoughts are probably normal.

If a woman decides to leave with child without the other parents permission it may well result in limiting her access to EU countries by threat.  Best to make all attempts to work things out before really pulling the plug which will certainly have great effect on the child.

[CallMeSasha]

One thing I remember is that I had to agree for our child to have RU citizenship, as did my wife for our other citizenships.. yes in all three.

so does this mean my wife couldn't apply for a russian passport for our child without my permission? surely she could still do that if she claimed not to know who the father is? (worse case scenario of course!)

and an open question to all posters, if RF doesn't recognise dual-nationals why don't the authorities wonder where you are for 51 weeks of the year?

[Aloe]

thanks for the reply.

let me explain my paranoia  exactly the worst case scenario happened to my wife's russian friend living in another EU country. she took her child back to RF against father's wishes - he did everything he could through the courts to no avail. (she was wanted by interpol)

my concerns are what if something happened to my wife while in RF with the child - i'd be powerless to stop the state or the grandparents taking custody. also (as much as i wish  ) i can't predict the future & what is there stop my wife one day ending the relationship and taking the child to RF?

on thing that is for certain is the present, and yes that comes down to trust - however aim i being fair by wanting equal status & identity to that child? (by equal status i refer to Russia only viewing the child only as a Russian national)

But what kind of father was the other guy? Maybe he was a horrible person, or worse a pervert, and she had to do it, and her friend might be too ashamed to say what the real problem was, why she did such a thing. We will never know. I think you should just relax and be a good father, then nobody will take away any children, unless they are vindictive selfish bitches, but hopefully you knew better than that when picking a partner Did you?! Then relaaaaaax
IMO legalize your marriage in Russia, then im sure it will be a little easier to prove your rights if something happens, i couldnt say though, i dont know anything about the subject.
Interestingly, this kind of stuff never happens in Russia, because if you cross the border with a minor, you have to show certified paper with both parents permission for the child to leave the country, there is no way to sneak past that, unless you are into forging papers, why cant they do the same in EU? I hear they have the same rule in the EU, but in practice (as multiple forum reports suggest), nobody ever checks that paper at the border. Maybe you should write to your government pointing out the issue?

[Aloe]

so does this mean my wife couldn't apply for a russian passport for our child without my permission? surely she could still do that if she claimed not to know who the father is? (worse case scenario of course!)

and an open question to all posters, if RF doesn't recognise dual-nationals why don't the authorities wonder where you are for 51 weeks of the year?

In Belgium father has to show up at the consulate and sign the paper in presense of the consul, saying he agrees for the baby to have russian citizenship. As far as i know its the same in any country. And you have to show the birth certificate of the baby, who does it say the father is?

Not sure what you mean by your 2nd question, why the hell would anyone care where anybody is?

[CallMeSasha]

regarding the father in paris, i don't really know the full story but now it's amicable & settled through the courts and she's no longer wanted by interpol

also i've no idea how she took her child into RF, i guess either it was with his permission for a holiday or with forged documents.

and as for the authorities not caring where you are, in the UK you have to reside for 6 months of the year to keep your nationality/citizenship unless i'm very much mistaken - maybe it's changed but i remember my aunt had to do this when she also had a residence abroad

edit to add - i did ask her about registering the marriage in RF, she replied it was too much hassle

and as for the birth certificate, that's hypothetical at the moment as we're still in trying process - however it's something we obviously discuss & any help and advice i can get is great. of course if we had a child i'd be calling him/her our beautiful baby!

[Aloe]

regarding the father in paris, i don't really know the full story but now it's amicable & settled through the courts and she's no longer wanted by interpol

also i've no idea how she took her child into RF, i guess either it was with his permission for a holiday or with forged documents.

and as for the authorities not caring where you are, in the UK you have to reside for 6 months of the year to keep your nationality/citizenship unless i'm very much mistaken

edit to add - i did ask her about registering the marriage in RF, she replied it was too much hassle

and as for the birth certificate, that's hypothetical at the moment as we're still in trying process - however it's something we obviously discuss & any help and advice i can get is great. of course if we had a child i'd be calling him/her our beautiful baby!

i dont think you need to show the paper at all, when exiting the EU, or at least Belgium. There is multiple topics on "russians in belgium" forum where people ask if they need to make a permission from father to leave the country, and they all end up doing it just in case, and they all come back and say nobody asked for the paper
russian citizenship is permanent; the only way to get rid of it is to specifically apply to get rid of it, and pay the fee

[ConnerVT]

A Russian citizen under the age of 14 can get a Russian international passport without having a Russian internal passport.  My son got his at age nine.  He was originally listed in his mother's international passport.