Interesting Conversation with a Ukrainian Women About American Men.

[Ravens9273]

I find myself coming here less and less. Part of that reason is due to some of the people who have come by and what they have written.

Many of us can agree there is more then one type of Man who starts this journey. While Many do not want to say it or admit to it the word LOSERS and SEX TOURIST are not often used enough.

Yet their are also some REAL MEN here. Many I have the upmost respect for. People like Gator, Shadow, Jolly, Utrobina, Serously Jaded etc....
You know who you are.

But I have seen too many who fit the other description come. And those know who they are. I find myself only arguing with people because I have no respect for those who have no respect for Women.


We recently had a 51 year old come on here talking about his 23 year old girlfriend.
This person even admited on his first trip to getting busted with Viagra and condoms.
This statement says alot of what his intentions were. He went on a week tour claiming to be looking for a wife yet he is fully prepared for sex. In all honesty he was a SEX TOURIST.

But today I had a conversation with a good friend from Kiev.
She is 33 and absolutely Beautiful. She looks much better then most 20 year olds. She is currently on Anastasia but she is the real deal. I have known her for a while.

Today out of nowhere in our talk she began talking about the Men who visit Ukraine.

She is not the best with English. So please mind her grammer and spelling.


 in ukrain com only sex tourist
it very dificalt
it problem for cantry
nobody else here
ery in odessa
very
 all men come here only for girls
only
they not respect woman at all
ukranian woman
not bad
we the same as americans
 we have feelings
we are normal
we just have bad guverment
and not much money
we want be loved
and have good family
this man who come here dont care what ll happen with us
 they dont care that they kill something inside of us
only want have FUN TIME
soory
sorry
i belive iy s many nice man
but in ukraine they not come
and it s sad
evry girl here know it
we can see that



Those were her words and words many should listen too.
Many fail on this mission because they are not real men. They do not have respect for Women. But they come here and expect the Real Men here to relate.
This is why there will always be differences of opinions here. We are divided by two.
The real men who respect women then the sex tourist and losers.

I think the other half needs to pay attention to the young ladies words above.
Once you learn to respect the ladies and respect their feelings you might not come here complaining all the time but find a real jewel and live a happy life.

Best wishes to all the MEN here.

[KenC]

Raven,
The rift raft comes and goes through here.  I have seen it happen before and expect it to continue.  Most of the old timers stick around to try and help the occassional sincere guy that is also willing to learn from our past experiences.  Believe it or not there is still much to learn from others too.  Don't let a few sh*theads get you down.  Stay and help the ones you can.
KenC

[I/O]

Ravens: We're on much the same page however I have learned over time one cannot be a world saver. You learn to take 'em or leave 'em for what they are because they will never understand what they are and will keep doing what they do because they can.

[Faux Pas]

Attempting to mandate your morals and beliefs on others is akin to teaching a pig to sing. Besides annoying the pig it just ain't going to happen. There's no sense in letting it upset you to the degree that it has. Ravens, I've noticed several of the latest drive-by posters seemed to have gotten your goat pretty much all for the same reason. It doesn't do any good to get upset over things you can't do anything about. They'll be sex tourists traveling the world over and no matter what your or your Ukrainian friend thinks about them, it isn't you or a reflection on you personally, don't pack for that guilt trip.

[KenC]

Ravens,
One thing I forgot to tell you.  Take a break!  Many of the most valuable members here get fed up from time to time and just need a break from some of the idiots.  Go enjoy the start of the football season and come back when you are up to it.  Don't say goodbye, just see ya later. 
KenC

[Daveman]

Well, there are obviously crappy guys and crappy women in this pursuit. Too bad they don't find only each other -- matches made in heaven.  Sex tourists porkin' the trip whores would be perfect, no?  The guys wanting to buy youth and beauty hooking up with the gold diggers... the idiots who seek ONLY the most beautiful face/body without bothering to actually get to know the woman mulin' up for the GCG's...

Now that would be one hell of an honest agency, eh?

GetWhatYouGive.cum
HellMatches.net
WhatGoesAroundSometimesCantBeTreatedWithDrugs.FU

As for the nutbags who post here... this place would die rather quickly if all we had were normal guys and success stories. Think about it.  Nothing like an Idiot or Train Wreck to swarm the posts.  

Yes, it's a downer when we read something like the words from that girl. Certainly it is.  There's quite a bit of disappointment in the dating world, all over the world. We all have to learn to be patient and stop thinking in absolutes.  Of course there are good guys who travel to Odessa, but there are a slew of gold diggers waiting for their monthly stipends and a better life.  After meeting a few Odessa gals, some of the good guys move off to seemingly better, less shark infested locations -- having quite a similar emotional response as that lady.

What can be done about it? We can all piss and moan about something, but inevitably we also have to get off our asses and create our own destiny, that lady included...

[GregfromGa]

This place has certainly had it's fair share of douchebags over the years. They come and go. Most end up getting called out. I've met more than one or two in Kiev while sitting at the pub. It happens.  At least they are not after kids like some that go to Thailand and other places. Any guy that would want to hurt a child or have sex with a child needs their balls cut out and strung up. Ukraine has it's share of prostitutes and cat houses. So does Vegas. At least that's what I've been told. I guess the girl might have some say as to whether or not the act takes place and on which if any visit.

[Vaughn]

Her words reflect why I am hesitant to assist my wife's sincere friends and acquaintances
when they ask if we know of any good husband material. The requests are often delivered
in a humorous vein, yet at the core is honesty.

There is one guy, only one, whom I've read here for some time now - whom I've considered
approaching privately - having little to no idea if an intro would be well received, or even
wanted at all. It's all about character - and we'll be damned if we're going to recommend
a man as this Ukrainian woman describes above. Still, we cannot dictate anyone's behavior
after the fact - but just to reach a starting point requires much discernment.

Ravens, the loser/sex tourist tide IS a troubling thing. If nothing else it works in the
honorable guy's favor - although he might have to wade through a field of skepticism
to be taken seriously by an understandably cautious woman.

[Ulysses]

Ravens,
      I also have missed your imput over the last several months, but understand your concerns.   The words of your friend cut deeply to anyone that is sincere and honest in their desires.......and I hope that events can change for her where you may be able to provide us with a more positive report in the future.   
     In my many months of reading the reports, etc. here, and contributing a few times, I've seen the "wheat seperated from the chaff".
Their postings fade quickly when the sharp questioning  of those mentioned above....and others....come forth.  So keep on talking and shine a light for those of us still involved in that quest.
     U.

[krimster]

Morality is just the herd instinct in an individual, so let it go
let's sing Negro spirituals instead

It's early in the morning, the sun shines brightly 'cross the Dnepro
The street's are quiet, folks are movin' kinda' slow

Two young beautiful Ukrainian girls, walkin' syncopated down the street
The wind is in the world, the wind is in their curls, they can feel the beat

They start singin'

A long, long time ago, I can still remember
Tak! The Orange Revolution on that cold December
Remember standing on Kreschatik,
Remember watching children with orange flags
Remember marchin' down the crooked road, singing
One day, we will make it straight

Oh, one day we will make it straight. Oh one day (chorus)

I used to read Ukrainska Pravda, was sad when I heard the news
went to St. Sophia's and prayed for him, heard people cryin' in the pews,
One day, we will make it straight

Oh, one day we will make it straight. Oh one day (chorus)

Baba in the magazine, got no money for kleb, something in her eye
She goes outside to beg under the cold dark sky
One day, we will make it straight

Oh, one day we will make it straight. Oh one day (chorus)


One Day-y-y-y-y-y-y

The Holodomor Re-enactment Society is proud to offer membership to all Ukrainians










   

[Ravens9273]

KenC, I/O, Faux Pas, DaveMan, GregfromGa, Vaughn, Ulysses, Krimster

You guys are all class acts and should be added to the list above of the REAL MEN.

However KenC nailed it.
I need the break. When you find yourself only arguing here with the bottom half of the human race one needs to step back and get grips once again.
As KenC said. It is now football season. Have been waiting a while for it.
The Ravens already create enough stress for me this time of year so I do not need to add to it anymore.
I have waited a long time to take my wife to a real game. Now I finally have the chance. She even has her Ray Lewis Jersey but of course she wanted the pink and white jersey made just for the girls. Gotta Love Her.

Take Care everyone..

[GregfromGa]

You know Ravens sometimes you just need a break from here but dont let a few keep you from stopping by and expanding on your experiences. I used to stop by 3 of these sites. It's just way too overwhelming dealing with the same story lines and characters all the time. I like coming here and hearing success stories, answering some questions, learning that my  lovely and talented wife of almost 6 years is more whacked and less whacked  out than some others. It is what it is. I would do everything the same.

[Misha]

Well, there are obviously crappy guys and crappy women in this pursuit. Too bad they don't find only each other -- matches made in heaven.  Sex tourists porkin' the trip whores would be perfect, no?  The guys wanting to buy youth and beauty hooking up with the gold diggers... the idiots who seek ONLY the most beautiful face/body without bothering to actually get to know the woman mulin' up for the GCG's...

  Yes, if only we lived in a perfect world. As such, the only real option for a woman who fears a sex tourist is simply for her not to have sex with any man she suspects does not have noble intentions. The rule to be followed IMHO: never sleep with anybody if you risk regretting it in the morning.

[aventino68]

Lots of good info on here and that's just how the www works, you have to accept the good with the bad.
 

[dneid]

Well, this post finally pushed me back into the debate.  I so agree with all the real guys here.  The guys who strive to treat a lady like a lady and not a fling of a fun evening of tumbling in the sack.  One my one trip to Ukraine, I met a few of the sex tourist guys in Kiev and Nikolaev.  Could spot them a mile away.
I met several wonderful ladies and had some delightful and very open conversations with them.  I heard two common issues from them, the 1st being the keyboard Romeos, the ones who never get on a plane and actually go.  The 2nd are the sex tourists, the ones who want to experience Ukraine through their peckers.  I consider these guys the worse of the 2.
I tried to be a gentleman when I was there, strived to a friend to all, not just the ladies, but the guys, the babushkas, the waiters, the regular folks.  Pavel in Kiev became a friend, a true friend.  I so enjoyed my experience when there and am looking so forward to returning.  Did I meet "that special one"?  Nope!  But that was not the sole intent of the trip.  I went to experience the country and the people and meet a few ladies.  All in all, it was an amazing experience.  One I will never forget!  BTW, I have traveled internationally extensively for work in the past and am very comfortable striking out on my own and did so several times.
Ok, my rant is over.  Ravens, I do hope to see you drop in again and be an active member, but I can also understand taking a break.
Later,
Dale