Canadian visa quandry

[UTRO]

Well I hear what you are saying and understand it.  The thing is this, I have been searching online and analyzing for quite some time (years).  I've spoken to hundreds of girls (if not more) and by now I have a pretty good sense of who is who and when someone is real.  I usually know within a few lines of conversation, someone's true character and their true intentions.  First off I never met this girl on a bride site or anything like that.  She did not contact me, it was a completely random encounter online.  She just happens to be from Belarus but she is so not "russian" at all.  I've spoken to 100s of russian/all other FSU girls.  Her english is as good as a native speaker's. 

I'm not saying I can't be fooled, I can, it's just extremely unlikely.  And to answer your question then, yes I do trust her, I just know her.  And I realize I may sound like a fool now, god knows I've read all of the reports of so many other guys on forums like this one who find a russian woman marry her, etc etc, sound just like me with regards to trust and she ends up leaving them.  What can I say, I'm different and I know it.   

Most Belarussians(sp) consider themselves Russians anyway
Hey Bruce, only you know what is best for you! You seem confident..... Go for the Student Visa!!  
Oh and the older the girl is the more scrutiny from Immigration. Younger Women will travel for 'study'.... older Women, not so much. They might have ulterior motives!

[UTRO]

This might be difficult. I don't believe there would be much for students who are going to a college to do some short term studies (ESL studies for example).

If she is going to an English-language college, it won't be an issue.

Dawson, Vanier and Champlain are English colleges (CEGEP) in Quebec

[brucen36]

Dawson, Vanier and Champlain are English colleges (CEGEP) in Quebec

Thank you, I'll be sure to check these out.  Unfortunately, even though I live in Quebec, I don't speak french since I'm originally from Ontario.  But I'm trying to learn!

[UTRO]

Well I'm originally from Quebec and don't speak much French! lol!! These are not French colleges. Search for their Websites, they'll be in English

[brucen36]

Okay, but remember that one should not send money unless one would not mind losing it

Well of course I would mind losing it.  But life is all about likelihood before the fact.  And I just know this girl to a very high certainty.

[AnastassiaAsh]

Well, if you know her that well and trust her that much, then you must be pretty close to wanting to marry her. Make another trip, propose and marry her. I believe people don't need to live together to figure out if they want to marry or not. Keep communicating and visiting till both of you are sure. That's all. Minimum risk, good test...

This is even better I would say than a K1 visa. She can't travel there unless the relationship is settled! And it definitely won't be because of her wanting to improve her situation by moving to another country....it will be more about you and marrying you! 

[brucen36]

Well, if you know her that well and trust her that much, then you must be pretty close to wanting to marry her. Make another trip, propose and marry her. I believe people don't need to live together to figure out if they want to marry or not. Keep communicating and visiting till both of you are sure. That's all. Minimum risk, good test...

This is even better I would say than a K1 visa. She can't travel there unless the relationship is settled! And it definitely won't be because of her wanting to improve her situation by moving to another country....it will be more about you and marrying you! 

Well I certainly do know her and trust her, but I don't see how that is related to marriage at all.  I trust her like I would trust a very close friend.  This was all in reference to the money question.  Knowing whether she is the right girl for me to marry is a different matter altogether.  And personally, I believe living together and seeing a person in day to day life is critical for deciding whether you want to spend the rest of your life with them....if it's possible to do this of course.   Again, to me this is about probability.  Marriage is potentially forever.  Things can work if one goes to meet a woman for a few times and not live with her, I just believe the probability that it will work is lower and living with someone (or more accurately getting to know them very well by conventional dating) increases the probability of success.  If I could date her in the normal way, I would, it would just be cheaper if she lives with me.

By the way, she has been to the USA a couple of times as a student when she was much younger.  She had the opportunity to stay there but decided to forego that because she wanted to be home.  I'm quite sure she's not moving to improve her position in life.

[GoodOlBoy]

Well, if you know her that well and trust her that much, then you must be pretty close to wanting to marry her. Make another trip, propose and marry her. I believe people don't need to live together to figure out if they want to marry or not. Keep communicating and visiting till both of you are sure. That's all. Minimum risk, good test...

This is even better I would say than a K1 visa. She can't travel there unless the relationship is settled! And it definitely won't be because of her wanting to improve her situation by moving to another country....it will be more about you and marrying you! 

AnastassiaAsh, simply put in GoodOlBoy terminology: "He wants to get the milk for free, before he buys the cow".


GOB

[Julia G]

 No way to get her in without big money issues (as for student`s), the only way is to save some money and go for a longer visit. They give a visa only if you know her for a year for the moment of application. I suppose it is counted from meeting in person but not sure. Or consider marriage contract if you are not sure in person. If she`s intelligent she`ll undertsand.

[Ade]

Well I certainly do know her and trust her, but I don't see how that is related to marriage at all.  I trust her like I would trust a very close friend.  This was all in reference to the money question.  Knowing whether she is the right girl for me to marry is a different matter altogether.  And personally, I believe living together and seeing a person in day to day life is critical for deciding whether you want to spend the rest of your life with them....if it's possible to do this of course.   Again, to me this is about probability.  Marriage is potentially forever.  Things can work if one goes to meet a woman for a few times and not live with her, I just believe the probability that it will work is lower and living with someone (or more accurately getting to know them very well by conventional dating) increases the probability of success.  If I could date her in the normal way, I would, it would just be cheaper if she lives with me.

Bruce, you have your head in the right place and your strategy is a wise one; don't let those more foolish persuade you otherwise.

[brucen36]

Bruce, you have your head in the right place and your strategy is a wise one; don't let those more foolish persuade you otherwise.

Hi SJ:

Thanks, I think I've got my head in the right place too.  However, I certainly don't mind opposing comments from anyone, always keep an open mind I say.  Also, I do understand the concern others may have, especially if they've read the stories I have on these forums.  I was just trying to get some ideas for something I may not have thought of yet and there were some good suggestions.  I realize all of this will cost me money, and I am prepared for that, I guess I just want to minimize the burden and not leave any stone unturned.

B

[ScottinCrimea]

We see many here looking to find a way to get around the visa rules and get their girlfriend/fiance here quicker than what the rules would seem to allow.  In some cases it is so they can have a "test run".  Some say, 'Oh, I want her to see my world", In others it is because they don't have or don't want to spend the money for repeated visits to see her.  Some want to get her here before she falls out of love with them. Others want to get her away from all of those RM who they might feel they are competing with. And of course some are truly in love and can't bear to be apart.  I'm sure I've missed a few here, but you get the point. Of course almost all of them claim they are in the latter category. 

I certainly understand all of these feelings.  After our first meeting the longest we were apart before we married was four months and that nearly made me crazy.  But something interesting was that, after we had married and our feelings for each other were secure, I could handle time away from her.  Maybe it was because my personal insecurities were satisfied, maybe because I actually knew her well enough to know time apart would not change our feelings for each other, maybe I understood that the time apart was just a necessary part of the process, probably a combination of the three.

I think those who have time together and have built a solid relationship (this doesn't include the carefully written e-mails that time and spell checker allow or the phone conversations and the video conferences that require only 2-3 hours of self control, carefully worded questions and answers and image projection, or the one week of situatonal bliss of a visit) are the most willing to bear the time and the effort to jump through the hoops of doing it by the book.  It has seemed to me that typically those who have spent the least time together are the most anxious to find a way around the rules.

What I haven't seen addressed by anyone here is the cost to her of this "test run". It is even higher in some cases than the 90 day window of the k-1 because they give up much to come to the US without even the "security" of an engagement.  What would it cost you and what would you suffer to leave your job and your home for this 2-3 month test run?  Why are many so willing to propose this for the woman but are not willing to do the reverse and take time off from your job, possibly losing it, leaving your home and friends for this alternate means of being together?  It seems to me that if the man really wants to have this time together, he should be just as willing to move to her country to be together as he expects her to be.

Not to present myself as a saint or anything close, but I gave up my job, my home, my country and my culture to move to Ukraine to be with the woman who I thought could be my wife.  I had heard the idea, and by experience I believed it, that you can have the best job in the world but if you come home to a miserable home and a wife you don't love, your life will not be happy.  To the converse, no matter how miserable your job, if you come home to a happy home and a loving wife, your life will be happy.  My experience has validated this idea.

Of course finding loopholes to get her here quicker might work, but there is always a cost.  In this case we are talking about a financial cost to him of what? $15,000?  And to her what?  No one has addressed this yet.  In the other extreme it may involve her inability to apply for a visa for another 10 years or the cost of him being scammed by someone who he doesn't really know but who prefers the money to the risk of the relationship.  There are a lot of costs both financially, time-wise, emotionally, etc. in between.

Of course the intelligent mind will search for alternatives to achieve what he wants and I don't fault this poster or any other for asking the question, but ultimately it is the mature mind that will weigh the risks and benefits and make the decision that, perhaps painful, will lead to the ideal ultimate outcome.

[brucen36]

Hi Scott:

You certainly make a good point, I didn't quote it here since it was so long.  But of course we weighed the cost to her, and it really is essentially no cost.  She was in job that she didn't really like and has recently quit.  She was planning on doing this anyways.  Had I not come along her plan was to move to Moscow and get a job there.  Right now she manages freelance by teaching people english and other things.  She doesn't really have that many connections in Belarus, and as I said was planning to leave anyways.  So yes, of course I considered the costs for her and as I see it, it's essentially nil.  Coming to Canada would essentially be a free trip for her with the prospect of something great coming out of it.  If things don't work out, she would just continue on her original path.  Win-win situation I'd say.

B

[Misha]

In the other extreme it may involve her inability to apply for a visa for another 10 years

Given that Bruce is Canadian, 10 year visas are not an issue. If he marries her and sponsors her, either she will get her permanent residence or she won't. If she gets her PR status, she can't lose it unless it is pretty clear that she committed fraud (i.e. dumps him at the airport). If she gets her permanent residence status, she simply has to follow the rules as any other immigrant in Canada and after three years of residence is eligible to become a citizen. If their marriage breaks up before the three years are up, he is on the hook financially for her for the remainder of the three years as he is her sponsor, and perhaps longer depending on the divorce settlement.

[Donhollio]

   I'm curious as to what the outcome has been ?