I Do, or I Don't

[JohnDearGreen]

This is an issue that happened to me a few years back.  Unfortunately, I didn't know of a forum like this back then to ask for opinions.   Briefly, I made a couple of trips to Russia, meeting a lady in Moscow, then going with her for a week to a seaside resort.  We talked about the possibility of K-1 and marriage.  I realize 2 visits might be a bit quick, but that's a different issue.  After more talk, she reveals that "she is not officially divorced".  She says her husband and her just went their separate ways, and never filed the paperwork. 

Is it common for FSU women to be separated but not formally divorced?  I decided to move on, and she was very upset about it.  What would you have done?

[groovlstk]

This is an issue that happened to me a few years back.  Unfortunately, I didn't know of a forum like this back then to ask for opinions.   Briefly, I made a couple of trips to Russia, meeting a lady in Moscow, then going with her for a week to a seaside resort.  We talked about the possibility of K-1 and marriage.  I realize 2 visits might be a bit quick, but that's a different issue.  After more talk, she reveals that "she is not officially divorced".  She says her husband and her just went their separate ways, and never filed the paperwork. 

Is it common for FSU women to be separated but not formally divorced?  I decided to move on, and she was very upset about it.  What would you have done?

FWIW, my wife was separated from her husband when we met and I've known Russian people who did not formally divorce until one spouse was looking to get married again. In my wife's case, they lived apart and had no real impetus to formally divorce. There is a fee involved and the complications we have in the West (health insurance coverage, 401k and life insurance beneficiaries, etc.) simply don't exist.

IMHO you probably jumped the gun although she should probably have shared this news with you upfront.

[Mars]

Yes.  I have met with FSU women who were not divorced.  They didn't tell me this until after we met.

Frequently this lack of divorce has something to do with living arrangements.  In Soviet times all persons were assigned housing and could not move freely.  Even after a divorce, the two had to go back and live in the same apartment until one could get a reassignment.  So this led to the idea of why even get a divorce until one could find another partner, another place to live, etc.

After breakup of Soviet Union, many of the republics started signing over the apartment units to the persons registered as living in the individual units.  So you have cases of the apartment ownership being shared by a grandmother, her offspring and spouse, their children, etc.

After a divorce, the divorcing party still has ownership rights and will not vacate the property.  So again . . . why get a divorce until a new partner is identified along with a place to live.

The women I met in this situation all claimed that they left the marriage bed and lived mostly in a separate room.  But who knows??

[JohnDearGreen]

Her profile on aprettywoman said she was divorced.  I don't remember ever asking about it again in our time together.  She was not a poor girl.  Her father was a corporate executive.  She said when her and her 2 brothers got out of school the father bought a large apartment for the 3 children to live in until they married.  She said she moved back in with the 2 brothers.  I thought it was a bit strange that 3 children from an upscale family would not be married, all over 30 years old.  She didn't want me in the apartment, saying the brothers got very upset about her bringing men into the apartment, so the taxi would just drop her off by the street.

[Faux Pas]

Her profile on aprettywoman said she was divorced.  I don't remember ever asking about it again in our time together.  She was not a poor girl.  Her father was a corporate executive.  She said when her and her 2 brothers got out of school the father bought a large apartment for the 3 children to live in until they married.  She said she moved back in with the 2 brothers.  I thought it was a bit strange that 3 children from an upscale family would not be married, all over 30 years old.  She didn't want me in the apartment, saying the brothers got very upset about her bringing men into the apartment, so the taxi would just drop her off by the street.

Something isn't kosher. What I have no idea. You certainly should hold off on any K-1 discussions until you know this woman better. She could very well be on the up and up but I'd venture to guess she is hiding something from you. Most normal women would want her family to meet her perspective groom. Usually, brothers included. It may be something as simple as her being ashamed of where she is living to something a bit more nefarious. She's already told you a "white lie" so the flood gates of trust should be closed somewhat. Slow down, learn and know her better before pursuing a K-1. It's quite a process and hoops to jump through and advisable to know the lady when you come out the other end of it.

[Sculpto]

I hate the word "normal".  There is no such thing.  I am also bothered when people don't read carefully and offer advice that isn't even relevant. 

Anyway.. this situation is more common than would be obvious, for the reasons Mars and Groov mentioned.  I personally find it annoying and does make me think twice about someone.  Not because of any ethical or moral issues, but, because it means there is baggage that will not be simple to clear off.  Baggage could be as simple as dealing with the legal issues, or, there could be emotional issues far more complicated.

I once had a relatively similar situation in Mexico.  I got involved with an awesome woman and only later learned she was still married.  She hadn't even seen her x in years, but, because it is difficult to get a divorce in Mexico and her X needed to remain married or it would mess up his immigration status, he took off and would never respond to her requests for formalizing the divorce.  Lawyers and courts were involved but it had been going on for years with no signs of resolution.  Unfortunately I had to end the relationship in large part because of that.  At the time I had no way of staying in Mexico except marriage, and, since she wasn't available to be married...

[RussianWind]

I personally find it annoying and does make me think twice about someone. 

I disagree on this. Separated is a status of a relationship or rather the end of it. In some countries a divorce process can take ages, do you offer those people to live like monks 

[Faux Pas]

I hate the word "normal".  There is no such thing.  I am also bothered when people don't read carefully and offer advice that isn't even relevant.  

Apparently you are referring to me and my advice.  Why am I not surprised you Sculpt hate a word such as "normal"? I read carefully enough and the little advice I tossed out there to him is solid, surmised in one word would be caution. How you can toss a do do bomb on that and offer up an absolutely irrelevant example and advice is beyond me. But you never cease to surprise me anyway.

[JohnDearGreen]

Thanks for the replies.  I suppose if I had decided to continue with her, some sort of background check might have been in order.  I see various detective web sites offer them for $300 to $400.  Has anyone ever paid for a background check?

She had great skills and experience in cooking and talked of opening a small restaurant in USA.  Her skills also bridged into other rooms.  But I had no desire to start a small business, knowing 90% failure rate and many hours of extra work for me.  And she would probably never be happy with the other types of jobs she could obtain here.  That seems to be a problem with many career oriented ladies who have no directly marketable skills.  That was another reason for dropping the situation.

[Sculpto]

I disagree on this. Separated is a status of a relationship or rather the end of it. In some countries a divorce process can take ages, do you offer those people to live like monks 

Of course not, but, early disclosure of such an important fact is paramount.  Its deceptive otherwise.

[Sculpto]

This is an issue that happened to me a few years back.  Unfortunately, I didn't know of a forum like this back then to ask for opinions. 

You certainly should hold off on any K-1 discussions until you know this woman better.

Yes Faux, I see you were reading carefully. 

There is no real definition of normal.  There is what is normal for "you" and what "you" would normally accept or understand of any given situation. 

[kievstar]

John,

It is no hard for RW to have a career in the USA if they learn English and there education was actually of a high level. Meaning they completed the education they said they did and did not get the grades by bribing or creating fake transcripts.  I lined up my wife with several jobs including a manager of a global leader in the hotel industry at their corporate office (having several college graduates working for her so a real manager role).  Need to think positive and just get things done.

[Faux Pas]

Yes Faux, I see you were reading carefully. 

I stand corrected. JohnDearGreen is obviously speaking of a past relationship. I did not catch that from his previous post.

There is no real definition of normal.  There is what is normal for "you" and what "you" would normally accept or understand of any given situation. 

So now Mr. Abnormal wishes for a definition?  This part of my statement relates directly to women (and men for that matter) most "generally" wish for family members to meet a betrothed. The OP said they were discussing a K-1. Would it not be "normal" Sculpt to meet available family members of the person you plan to marry? It would be abnormal not to. Normal could easily be defined as average or the "norm". I think most here understand your aversion to anything normal or average but guess what? It doesn't change normal  or make you special. 

[Boethius]

But he didn't do a K-1 visa for her, did he?

I don't think the failure to invite him was particularly unusual, if she'd only known him a few weeks.

[Ludmila]

JDG,
a few red flags:

1. the first "little" lie on the marital status.

2. living together with the 2 brothers, in the same apartment, when all of them are over 30..........? Very unlikely, ImO

3. ALL kids of a well-off father living together, when they are over 30?

4. Neither of all these kids were able to rent and live independently, which all young people would like to do ?

5. If she were serious ab her INTERNATIONAL marriage and isn't divorced yet, she, at least is supposed to have filed for the divorce. It is a huge disrespect for  the future partner who has given his time, money, nerve and emotion to visit her , spend time with her, and pay for her  resort.  It tells me a lot ab the character. A BIG FLAG,JDG!

[BillyB]

Her profile on aprettywoman said she was divorced.  I don't remember ever asking about it again in our time together. 

Failure to communicate is partially to blame for wasted time and money you spent with this woman. I'm not sure the woman intented to be dishonest with you on her marital status forever since she came forth with the truth eventually.

If I'm communicating with a woman that's divorced. I ask her if she's legally divorced and when did it happen. RW ask me about my divorce and how long the ex and I have been living apart because it's the wise thing to do.

Tell your lady before she can move on to another man, she needs to cut ties completely with her previous man. Maybe your lady has some feelings left for her husband and staying married just in case they can reconcile. If that's the case, don't aide in wrecking their marriage if it can be salvaged. Go find your own woman.

Next time before promising to visit any RW, get to know her as much as you can first even if you got to ask questions twice. Some RW ask me why I've asked certain questions again when they told the the answer weeks ago. I tell them I know the answer, I just want to learn if the 2nd answer is the same as the first.