Visa -- Documents Must Be "Legalized"? Child in Mother's Passport?

[rogerwind]

My Ukrainian fiancee was told that she must travel to Kiev and have ALL  her documents "finally legalized" in Kiev at the Ministry of Justice.  The documents include her marriage, divorce, birth certificates, etc. I  have since learned that this is call "apostille" (it is different than notarization). I do not know if any  or all documents required for the Fiancee Visa actually need this.
Anyone know? Which of the many documents require it?

2nd Question --

Does anyone know what is required to get a child included the mother's  passport? Is it simply a matter of stapling her photo into her mother's  passport and writing in her name, or does this have to be done at some  agency? If the latter, are there additional documents that must be  presented at the agency?

Thanks in advance for you help!!!

[Admin]

My Ukrainian fiancee was told that she must travel to Kiev and have ALL  her documents "finally legalized" in Kiev at the Ministry of Justice.  The documents include her marriage, divorce, birth certificates, etc. I  have since learned that this is call "apostille" (it is different than notarization). I do not know if any  or all documents required for the Fiancee Visa actually need this.
Anyone know? Which of the many documents require it?

2nd Question --

Does anyone know what is required to get a child included the mother's  passport? Is it simply a matter of stapling her photo into her mother's  passport and writing in her name, or does this have to be done at some  agency? If the latter, are there additional documents that must be  presented at the agency?

Thanks in advance for you help!!!

Roger,

The apostille is not actually separate from the notarization process - it is complementary to it, and necessary for ANY document that must be certified to be accurate for review by the US authorities.

Here is a link that may help explain it => http://www.state.gov/m/a/auth/c1267.htm.

What normally occurs is that you must get certain documents notarized - as per instructions from the US Embassy - in your case, the US Embassy in Kyiv.

The documents are notarized by a Ukrainian notary - and most times, they must also be translated from Russian/Ukrainian into English with a stamp certifying the translation. Then you must take the notarized documents to the Ministry of Justice for the apostille - which is necessary for international authorities.

They are essentially certifying that the notarization was performed legally (according to Ukrainian and international law) and should be accepted internationally.

The child registration question I have no knowledge of - someone else will probably jump in to help.

- Dan

[Bruno]

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine:
 
Postal address: Velyka Zhitomirska st., 2, Kyiv, 01018
Phone: (+38-044) - 238-16-69
E-mail: cons_vld@mfa.gov.ua, cons_sld@mfa.gov.ua
Web: www.mfa.gov.ua
The Ministry of Justice of Ukraine:

Postal address: M.Kotsiubinsky st., 12 ("University" Metro Station) Kyiv, 01000
Phone: (+38-044) - 235-40-83
Web: www.minjust.gov.ua
The Ministry of Education and Science of Ukraine:

Postal address: Pobedy Av., 10, Kyiv, 01135
Phone: (+38-044) - 216-22-35
Web: www.mon.gov.ua

[START2]

Roger,

I don't think anything is stapled or just written in any passport. To travel here, your fiancee must have an international passport. The usual Ukrainian one will not suffice. In the internatioanl passport she'll have her photo with info and on another page, her daughter will have her photo and info(ie name etc.) Nothing is stapled or hand written. If she doesn't have her international passport yet, you better apply for that ASAP. It sometimes takes 3 months to get that. I guess it's possible to speed that process with a little extra money.   Once you have all your docs and then an interview in the US embassy,  they'll affix a visa stamp to the passort for your fiancee and her child.

[jb]

Does anyone know what is required to get a child included the  mother's passport? Is it simply a matter of stapling her photo into her  mother's passport and writing in her name, or does this have to be done  at some agency? If the latter, are there additional documents that must  be presented at the agency? 

I'm not 100% sure about Ukraine,  but I suspect the rules closely follow the Russian mode.  Children  over a certain age, in Russia it's 14 y.o., will have their own  passport for International travel.  Under that age it is typical  for the child to be included in a parent's passport in the form of a  family passport, just as we have family passports in the USA.

The appostile issue is one of the most misunderstood things circulating  the boards.  An appostile is not a notary stamp, not even close,  it is the verification by the State where the notary resides that the  notary is geniune.  It is also the vehicle by which governments  recieve documents from other governments as valid instruments.   There was a convention in The Hague years ago where these treaties were  hammered out as to how governments could shuffle paperwork between  various agencies and each agency could rely upon the document to be the  real deal.  In each State Capital there is an office which  verifies the authenticity of the notary who signs his name and affixes  the notary seal to a document.  In other words, many documents can  be notarized and appostiled, but you cannot affix an appostile to a  non-notarized document.

In my State, that office is in the "Department of State", located in  Austin, TX and each application for an Appostile must be accompanied by  a photocopy of the notory's seal, which includes the notary's licence  number and the date of their commission.  Last I checked,  appostiles cost about $5.00 each.

[Bruno]

There was a convention in The Hague years ago where these treaties were hammered out ...

http://hcch.e-vision.nl/index_en.php?act=text.display&tid=37

 

[aikorob]

Hey Guys- Sorry to sidetrack roger's thread, but this topic has brought up something I need a little clarification on.

When I did the last K1, back in spring of 2003, all that was reqired to file was that her docs were translated and "certified" to be accurate.   Now that I am looking at filing another K1 shortly--have the rules changed to require notarization? Last time I checked on Kiev embassy web site (before Thanksgiving) it only mentioned "certification"

Did I originally squeak by under the radar; or would not having the  notarization and the apostile stamp have come back to bite us during the AOS process?

[Bruno]

When I did the last K1, back in spring of 2003, ...

Yes, some thing have change during 2003... before, document need a double certification... in the begin 2003, Ukraine have sign the LaHaye convention... around mid 2003, the law was in use...

[jb]

The US government will require certain documents to be notarized and  appostiled. At issue is a K-1 package being sent to the USBCIS  regarding a Ukrainian citizen. Things that you must be careful of  are her divorce papers and birth certificates, etc., i.e., those papers  which denote her identity and legal status. Since your own papers  are originating in the USA, for K-1 package purposes none of your  papers need be appostiled, for example, your divorce papers can  simply be stamped "Certified to be a tue copy" by the county clerk  where you got divorced. Good enough. If you've never been  married, a simple statement to that effect can be prepared, signed by  you in the presence of a notary and sealed at the time. Good  enough. If you were plannning to marry in Ukraine it would  be your documents that would bear extra scrutiny and require the  appostile.

In a K-1 case it is her documents from her various government agencies  will be the ones which have to be translated, certified and  appostiled. The instructions that accompany the I-129F that you  download from; http://uscis.gov/graphics/formsfee/forms/index.htm  are very specific. Follow those instruction and your package will be  all right. Just remember, since you are almost always sending in  copies and not original documents, the BCIS is sometimes fussy about  what they will accept and what they will delay approval  over. If you are in doubt over what to do with a required  document, I think it is better to err on the side of caution, go whole  hog and make it as clear as possible.

Good luck.

[BC]

Back to the passport for a minor issue, we were able to get a separate RU international passport for her(our) child at 9 years.  Believe we presented probable separate mother/child travel to justify it.

[catzenmouse]

In a K-1 case it is her documents from her various government agencies will be the ones which have to be translated, certified and appostiled.  The instructions that accompany the I-129F that you download from;  http://uscis.gov/graphics/formsfee/forms/index.htm  are very specific. Follow those instruction and your package will be all right.  Just remember, since you are almost always sending in copies and not original documents, the BCIS is sometimes fussy about what they will accept and what they will delay approval over.   If you are in doubt over what to do with a required document, I think it is better to err on the side of caution, go whole hog and make it as clear as possible.

Good luck.

Amen on this! If they say you can send this or this or this document and you have it send them all. More is always better with USCIS. If you just send one of the items a good amount of time they will ask for more evidence. And sometimes (like with our medical paperwork for Elena) they will ask for something they already have!

Ken 

[jb]

Rob;

or would not having the  notarization and the apostile stamp have come back to bite us during the AOS process?

During the AOS process most of the ordeal is in getting the  fingerprinting done and scheduling whatever other "Biometrics" they  decide they need.  This is, I believe, an evolving process and  what I did a few years ago will be very different from what you will  have to do, there are some members here who have more recent  experience.  Perhaps they will be good enough to chime in with  their up-to-date info for you.

The other things which throw a monkey wrench into the gear box is the  FBI background checks, no green cards, whether conditional or  permament, will be issued until that chore is finished.  I have  heard that the process can be delayed depending on how common the  lady's last name is, and/or how many times she may have been married  before.  All of those names will have to be run through the  vetting process.

When you go before the BCIS interviewer for the actual AOS they will  have your complete file in front of them.  Make sure you have  reviewed all of your copies of everything you have ever sent to the  BCIS, because in the interview they will review each and every  document, page by page, to verify all that you sent is current.   The other things you need for the interview is proof that yours is a  true marriage, you have to show things like common bank accounts, joint  ownership in the family cars, her name is included on the health  insurance policy, she should the beneficary on your life insurance  policy, she should be listed on the auto insurance.   If you  already owned a home before you marry you are not expected to show  joint ownership in that case, but don't try to buy a house without her  listed as a co-owner after the wedding date. 

The interviewer will also look very closely at your finances, be sure  to have a current bank statement with you, as well as a recent paycheck  stub or other proof you are within the guidelines,  that 10 year  support agreement will also be part of the scrutiny.  

The job of the interviewer is to insure that you are married to this  woman for all the right reasons and not as a sham marriage for Green  Card purposes.  I have no idea what would be the consequences if  the interview revealed a GC scam, but I'm pretty sure it would be  unpleasant.

If you are prepared for the interview you will have no problems, good  luck to you as you put together your K-1 package and with a little  luck, in about 5 or 6 years you'll have put all of the BCIS/Immigration  ordeal behind you.

[catzenmouse]

The biometrics was pretty straight forward. They sent us a letter stating to call and make an appointment. We did and went to the office where they took ink pad fingerprints and electronic fingerprints. Total time there was about 2 hours of which the actual process was about 20 minutes.

We did not have an interview for the GC. We got a letter stating that our case had been transfered to the CA service center, 6 to 8 weeks later we got a letter saying the application was approved and 10 days later we got the GC in the mail. Not all cases are going this route and it is up to them to decide to expidite it or to go the classic route with the interview.

Ken

[rogerwind]

To futher muddy the waters . . . .

I have a female friend in Kiev who just went through the Fiancee Visa process last week.
She said that "legalization" (apostille) was not required on ANY documents.

Hmmmmmmm.

[aikorob]

rogerwind,

This is the same as when I firrst did a K1. All that was required was that the documents and translation be "certified". No mention on USCIS or Kiev embassy site about apostile. They even give a sample format for the certification affidavit. Although probably not a good idea, your lady could translate and certify her documents if she is fluent in English.

[rogerwind]

In a recent call to the USCIS, the agent said that the rules for the  Visa Interview vary from Embassy to Embassy. Thus, there is no  standardized "right" way to do things.

When I wrote the Kiev Embassy, they were very specific that  "certification" as outlined on the USCIS website was not adequate for  them. They also required notarization of the translation.

[wxman]

2nd Question --

Does anyone know what is required to get a child included the mother's passport? Is it simply a matter of stapling her photo into her mother's passport and writing in her name, or does this have to be done at some agency? If the latter, are there additional documents that must be presented at the agency?

Thanks in advance for you help!!!

First, your fiance must have full legal custody or father's permission, or the father must be dead. If she has full custody, then she must get document translated with translated document notarized. If she does not have full custody, she must get written permission from husband, notarized and translated, along with a copy of the ex's local passport including photo page and signature. If ex is dead, then she will need death certificate translated and notarized.

The child can be added to her passport up to and including the age of 16.