Bad Boy Syndrome vs. Nice Guys from the West

[Gator]

To a great extent, I suppose you can say Russia is a haven for babdboys.

I assert that it took this kind of attitude to thrive in what replaced the Soviet economy. The security of a professional career ladder disappeared and was replaced with one where "cowboy" daring would dominate.  RW would see this success, and many would naturally gravitate to it, especially in unstable times.

The bad boy RM had many pursuits, and women were just one of them. 

Just my opinion and I easily could be wrong.

[GQBlues]

I would say that a woman is not attracted solely to the "bad boy," but rather the ATTRACTIVE bad boy.

Not necessarily Misha. Dennis Rodman, one of the infamous badboy around, isn't exactly pleasing to the eye, you know.

[Misha]

Not necessarily Misha. Dennis Rodman, one of the infamous badboy around, isn't exactly pleasing to the eye, you know.

Yes, but you are now adding other factors: money and fame  :evil:

[Misha]

I assert that it took this kind of attitude to thrive in what replaced the Soviet economy. The security of a professional career ladder disappeared and was replaced with one where "cowboy" daring would dominate. 

Well, not that simple. The new rich were invariably the old apparat and their children. Little to do with daring, much to do with connections.

[Misha]

Perhaps.  And the moral of the story is - a bad boy if he does not change his ways ends up with a ghastly tattooed, deeply wrinkled, leather wearing BBW on the back of his hawg.   If everyone is happy, so be it.

My point still remains. It is not that women necessarily prefer "bad boys" but rather than women will prefer (all things being equal) attractive, younger men. It is not a question of Russian women preferring Russian bad boys to nice guys from the West, but one of some Russian women preferring attractive, young men from Russia as opposed to the usual older, less attractive men from the West. 

[GQBlues]

Yes, but you are now adding other factors: money and fame  :evil:

Actually no. DR was an introvert as a child but he had his way with women even before the B-Ball fame. Bad as he wanted to be.

FWIW, most RMs ARE womanizer, the core definition of a badboy, are they all attractive, famous, or even rich?

[Gator]

My point still remains. It is not that women necessarily prefer "bad boys" but rather than women will prefer (all things being equal) attractive, younger men. It is not a question of Russian women preferring Russian bad boys to nice guys from the West, but one of some Russian women preferring attractive, young men from Russia as opposed to the usual older, less attractive men from the West. 

That's not Jooky's point.

In my wild university days, the best looking men did well with women, but  the men who had a certain magnetism could seduce almost any woman, even those who resisted.

Misha - no offence intended - you do not impress me as a bad boy.  For sure I am not, not close even in my single days. 

I have met GQBlues, and he has that certain allure to have been a bad boy (which he probably was during his surfing days).  Since it takes one to know one, I go with GQ’s description.  His recall is superb in naming Dennis Rodman.

[Muddy]

I have met GQBlues, and he has that certain allure to have been a bad boy (which he probably was during his surfing days).  Since it takes one to know one, I go with GQ’s description.  His recall is superb in naming Dennis Rodman.

RODMANS GIRLS WERE ALL STUPID.
Do you think smart girls would go for that dumbass janitor??
A bad boy is intelligent, confident, has good habits, has a strong personality, and has complete control over his girl and their relationship, and his girl cannot live without him, and he is not afraid of letting her go because there is always another

These people you think are bad boys are just idiots and weak, no education, dumb and he only attracts dumb stupid girls, how many times did Rodman cry like a little biy on national TV like a bitch? The biys you think are bad because they drink and smoke are just punks.

You can learn alot from me Gator!

[Jooky]

I think I should clarify what I was thinking about when I first posted about 'bad boys'.

Honestly I think 'bad boys' and 'nice guys' are the wrong terms to use, since a lot of what people are labelling here as 'bad boys' are the nicest guys I've ever met and 'nice guys' are typically more needy than nice. Anyways, here it goes...

In my 20s I used to go out a lot, clubbing every weekend, partying with a big social circle. I had many lady friends, and I'm a good listener so I'd get to hear all the complaints:

All the good ones are gay or taken.
Men are all pigs.
Men are all jerks.
Why do all the men I go out with turn out to be losers?

I wouldn't hear these type of comments from all my girl friends, but I'd hear them from a specific type - the type that always ended up in a bad relationship with a 'bad boy' and was blind to all the normal decent guys around, as if they didn't even exist.

Bad boy is probably the wrong term. These guys weren't charming players. They were definitely not intelligent with good habits. Many had the 'bad boy' or 'tough guy' look and attitude... tattoed bikers, gruff military guys, dominant cops and so on. Most were gruff in conversation.

Most could be better called losers, a$$holes or jerks. They were drunks, deadbeats, drug dealers, addicts, abusers, cheaters and leeches. Their attractive qualities seemed to be their argumentativeness, unpredictability and emotional distance. These guys were a challenge. They needed to be tamed or changed.

The girls that dated these guys came from broken homes or had bad rough childhoods.

Fast forward to my experiences meeting Russian girls through bridal sites. They ones that complained about 'bad' Russian men also had dated drunks, deadbeats and abusers in the past. They all came from broken homes. Most didn't know their real fathers. Some were raised by grandparents and had a deadbeat mother as well. They are drawn to conflict and uncertainty because that's all they know.

That's the parallel I was trying to draw.

I think the bridal industry attracts these type of women. It's not so much that all men around them are 'bad', but they are blind to the good guys around them because they're simply not attractive to them. So they look for a 'good man' overseas.

I think these women can change, and succeed in a relationship with a decent man, but this man must still have a toughness to him. He must have some of the macho attraction that she found in the loser deadbeats that she used to date. With a woman like this, the overly needy 'nice guy' is doomed to fail. That's what I've seen over and over with many of the train wrecks that we read on these boards.

[Faux Pas]

Interesting theory

[JR]

I think what Jooky is saying holds a lot of water. People don't like to go outside their comfort zone. If someone doesn't have the right perspective, ie: "I deserve to be treated right" they will simply revert to what they have always known even if it is destructive.

Was it K-Star that said if a woman came from a broken home he'd move on? I think there's some wisdom there. By and large people are who they were brought up to be and unless they've done some soul searching and fix-up work they'll probably be as broken as their parents.

[Lonewing]

Wow is my ex proof of that...broken home, abuse, no structure...And now she is leading the same life.

I suppose Love is not a genetic thing - it is soemthing you learn, and everybody can potentially learn a different style of love depending on how they grow up.

Nothing worse than a monogomous guy with a flirtatious promiscious [not necessarily just sex, see?] girl!

[Gator]

Jooky,

Thanks for the clarification.  Your definition of a "bad boy" sounds like low class trash, and the RW attracted to them psychologically traumatized.  Certainly nothing idealized about either.

Was it K-Star that said if a woman came from a broken home he'd move on? I think there's some wisdom there.

I don't know who said it, yet there is truth in it.  A broken home will leave its mark on its children.  No need to elaborate as the complete story can be found in psych books.   Nevertheless, some of these traumatized children can recover as my wife did.  It took some time for me to be convinced that such was the case.  I was married for 25 years to a clinically depressed AW, and I certainly did not want to enter that river again.

Every RW has a story.  It takes much more time to learn it than with an AW.

The other RW with whom I was engaged to was a product of a happy, functional family with siblings.  However, her second husband was a half-Gypsy, "narcotics" dealer.  She left him upon learning the source of his high income, yet I don't think he would have resembled a university professor when she married him.  I always wondered what that woman saw in me. 

[Shostakovich]

Bad-boy Shostakovich here with a bit of Necro-posting.  To the ladies of the RWD: don't you find me fascinating now that you know I am into such dark and forbidden things?

Ah-ha: Bad-boys and the women who love them:  Now that's entertainment.

Up above two posts caught my attention:

Blues Fairy with the Freudian analysis -- too true.
Gator with the post-Soviet analysis.  When the ancien regime has run its course, surprisingly, it is the criminal element that gets things moving again - they are the ones who will take the bold actions required and to the victor goes the spoils.

Yes I've marveled at the bad-boy syndrome: saw the rakes get the girls, vacuous buffoons get the girls because they had adventurous hands, the oohs and ahhs from the girls to the man with the stiletto knife.  Listen to the radio and there is advice o'plenty about how to leverage a ladies' self-esteem issues to your sexual pleasure.  I had to confirm it, not too much mind you, and dipped my toe into the pool and when I found it worked I ran like hell.  The girls you get aren't worth the trouble as they find their comfort zone in the dark side of the human psyche.  These 'relationships' are for people who think that drama represents progress in life, the people for whom yelling and screaming represents a positive alternative to lives of dullness and torpor.

The good news is this bad-boy stuff is just the tip of the ice-berg.  Some girls like the impotent nice guy.  Some want you to be just like their Daddy.  The fact is that most people are recovering from something that did not go so well in their lives and want, in some way or another, most often unconsciously, for their relationship to fix it.  If we were perfect there would be no need to seek another.  I think women know this instinctively - they hope to reform the bad-boy, they find a place in it.  To the good boy, the one who has his life "together" - many women just don't know what they can do for them -- lonely at the top.

Just jolly - the spectacle of the man and woman, inspiring as much chagrin as laughter, recalling a favorite by Nietzsche:

"Woman's love to man and man's love to women: would that it were sympathy in suffering and veiled deities, but generally two animals alight"       

[munna]

That statement and post is so very very true no matter the country. Many women will argue its not true when deep down they know it is and will continue to deny it. I await the flamage lol

Unfortunately bad boys have more attractive qualities than the passive nice guy.

I don't know how many times a female friend of mine says she is looking for a nice guy and ends up with jock looser who treats her like crap and dumps her when he is bored with her. Sound formulator guys?

Women like a challenge, Women want to feel they had to earn your attention. Women want a real man! They know the nice guy is good for them but that powerful attraction often just isn't there, but effectually they may settle for him and this often does end in disaster. Leaving Mr nice guy wondering what he did wrong.

This is especially true in western relationships where men let the women have all the power. Its not only a problem with western women, Western Men have been nice-afied by there upbringings, mothers, media etc. Where as all this feminized crap trying to treat men and women as equal has made women unhappier than ever and wondering where all the real men are! Deep down a woman wants the man to lead the relationship. Men and Women where not meant to be as equals.

So Unfortunately nice guys go unnoticed and un-appreciated as they often don't know how to trigger that attraction inside a women. Its not a logical choice for her its what see feels whether she likes it or not. Some women think there is actually something wrong with them because they are attracted to the bad boys. Nothing to do with upbringings, abusive fathers etc. in my opinion Ive seen plenty of women from great families I know well chase the bad boys.

Its no different to seeing a drop dead gorgeous girl in a bikini we are instantly attracted, no choice for us here either. Us blokes are such simple creatures. lol

What I am suggesting to men here is to be the nice guy but have the bad boy tendencies

Be a challenge, tease her, lead your woman, don't be a push over, don't put up with the petty little rot, set her straight. Still be her friend, help her with her problems, Love her for the beautiful person she is. But be strict about your expectations before the relationship. If she doesn't like it. move on! Her loss

It seems counter intuitive to many but she will love you all the more for it!
I am in no way saying to be abusive here either there is a big difference!

Be picky with women, have a list of what you really want and need in a women and don't compromise, let go if she doesn't have these qualities and if you marry one before knowing if she does your a fool!

Of course there is always exemptions to this but for the most part I believe all this to be true.

Flame me say what ever you like about me! I don't care, but this may just help someone and that's all the matters in the end.


What Lilly says backs up what I am talking about.

I did not find a specification on what exactly constitutes 'being bad', in this thread. May I presume that 'bad' means being bold, decisive, not willing to compromise. All there things are IMHO positive in a person. I also agree with Sculpto about the alpha man behavior.

On what may repulse a RW as a part of being a 'nice guy'...tough question. Probably exhibiting something undecisive, sort of shyness, passivity...

cheers