What about EU countries?

[Mike78]

Well, this topic might not really belong to this forum as it doesn't involve FSU (maybe only partly),  but I still think that this would be something interesting for some folks here. What I mean is why not try luck in the new EU member countries such as Visegrad four (Czech Rep., Slovakia, Poland, Hungary), Baltic countries, etc.? As far as I can tell, the girls there are just as pretty as in Russia or UA. I think there are many positives when compared to most FSU:
  - easier immigration - many of these countries don't need tourist visa to visit USA, for men from EU countries there are no immigration issues at all
  - much, much less scammer/green card girl potential - if they want to leave the country they can go to live in Western Europe by themselves
  - much less "fished out" - these countries not being the traditional MOB destination, there is a potential of more girls being available
  - in my opinion a good combination of western and eastern culture, probably less cultural issues than with a girl from Siberia or something (this might not be true, however, not too sure about it)

Of course, there are obvious downsides as well. There are no agencies (or very few), the girls might be less willing to move abroad, etc. Those going for huge age gaps can probably forget about this. But I know many girls do, in fact, marry foreigners. They usually meet in som traditional way.

I had some recent, very positive experience dating in Slovakia. I met with 3 girls, all were very pretty, sweet and interested. The one girl I like the best plans to visit me sometime this fall, she would even buy her own airfare. However, I do have some advanteges dating in this particular area as I grew up there, thus I can speak the language and have family and old friends there as well. Also I'm only 31, intelligent, decent looking and in very good shape. Still, the difference in me dating there and in USA is substantial. Although I can (and do) date attractive girls here in Arizona, usually the character is just not there, most of them are princesses that just want the men to worship them or are just outright crazy. The beautiful girls I met there were also very nice.

Anyways, perhaps just something to think about. Also, do any of you have experience dating in Central Europe?

[Shadow]

I do not see any reason why not to try.
There is of course the down side that the USA has some significant disadvantages over the West of Europe.
Longer travel distance, visa hassle (even if its not hard to get one), and general not many economic advantages.

However that does not mean they would be less interested in a good man.

[ECOCKS]

My impression was that the bride export craze already came and went in those areas.

Certainly, travel is easier due to more airline service, better airports, cleaner environment, nicer hotels and no travel restrictions except time on the ground.

I would hazard a guess that the women are not as willing to consider out of the locale relationships though, there seems to be a relative lack of social networks for intros and building the preliminary relationship and then their (CE gals') own abilities for travel around the EU lead them to go where they wish as they search for relationships rather than be dependent on the guys coming to them.

Guys go other places for a variety of reasons but if you are going to fly to Prague, Sofia or Warsaw and hang around looking for an interesting gal without prior exposure it's going to be a longer courtship and getting to know you period is my guess.

Still, who knows? Maybe it would be a good idea to go hang out in some Vienna parks or try to go clubbing in CZ, try a hostel in Krakow or take a language course in Bratislava. You will probably meet some people and maybe there's a gal there for you!

[Boethius]

I had some recent, very positive experience dating in Slovakia. I met with 3 girls, all were very pretty, sweet and interested. The one girl I like the best plans to visit me sometime this fall, she would even buy her own airfare. However, I do have some advanteges dating in this particular area as I grew up there, thus I can speak the language and have family and old friends there as well. Also I'm only 31, intelligent, decent looking and in very good shape.

I suspect all these things, particularly the language and culture, played a role in your success.  I know a number of guys that married Czechs, but they were all about your age or younger, and were living there at the time.

The one factor to consider in EU countries is that all those middle aged men who look a decade or more younger than their chronological ages likely will encounter a much shallower pond.

[Vinnvinny]

Ignoring for a moment the practicalities of there being no MOB business, the girls can travel anywhere they want etc etc, and just focusing on looks alone, there is no comparison whatsoever between the girls you will meet in Bratislava, Prague and Warsaw and between those in Ukraine. On average, the girls in Ukraine are (IMO) significantly better looking. Trust me on that, I'm an 'expert' on those places quoted. As for the Baltics, it's a 'half way house'.

Edit: If you think the ladies in Bratislava are pretty then go to Odessa or Nikolaev. You will change your mind.

[ECOCKS]

Ignoring for a moment the practicalities of there being no MOB business, the girls can travel anywhere they want etc etc, and just focusing on looks alone, there is no comparison whatsoever between the girls you will meet in Bratislava, Prague and Warsaw and between those in Ukraine. On average, the girls in Ukraine are (IMO) significantly better looking. Trust me on that, I'm an 'expert' on those places quoted. As for the Baltic, it's a 'half way house'.

Edit: If you think the ladies in Bratislava are pretty then go to Odessa or Nikola. You will change your mind.

My wife agreed with you based on her observations in Poland and CZ. She also noticed that Romania and Bulgaria were not as pronounced a difference.

Industrialization and rising incomes generally lead to more weight and less stamina, even health gains are somewhat mixed since the environment improves but exercise tends to drop.

[Manny]

We live in Estonia part of the time and I have travelled extensively in Poland, Latvia and Lithuania too.

Estonia: Forget it. The "mail-order bride" boat long since sailed from there. There are no *active* agencies left even (that I know of). You will find a few economically disadvantaged women out in Lasnamäe, the Russian border town of Narva [a very, very grim place] and a few southern villages, but you will need to overcome zero English language and no internet to meet them. Most women in and around Tallinn are quite happy with their quality of life. Only 1.5m people there and most are around Tallinn and the affluent parts of Harjumaa county and Viimsi. Probably the best looking women in Europe though. Slavic meets Scandinavian there. When I was single and dating there, finding women was easy, finding "serious" women was a problem; none wanted to leave. Worth casting your net there on the off-chance though.

Latvia: Almost like Estonia. Too many UK stag parties and drunken tourists in Riga make many of the women jaded about foreigners. Again, out in the villages you may flush the odd one out. Might be worth a gamble outside Riga.

Lithuania: The poor relation of the Baltics. A lot of destitution and corruption there. Especially outside Vilnius. I would look in the Baltic corridor (the towns between the Suwalki [Polish border town] and Riga route). But yes, worth a look there, but be careful of gold diggers. I was driving a new shape Mustang through there last year. When I stopped for lunch, I was suddenly swamped in slim, leggy, sunglasses-clad women asking questions. In slow moving traffic, similar ones were shouting hello from the kerb. I suspect their money radar tuned into the car rather than my rugged good looks. Money talks there. In fact, it shouts!

Poland: You can probably meet more Poles in the UK; most of them are here now. Poland is still a possibility despite its recent reported affluence. The women tend to be a bit heavier and not quite as good looking as Slavic women on the whole. Again, worth casting a net there. Its a big country and history shows us that Poles are not against relocation. 

[Vinnvinny]

Poland: You can probably meet more Poles in the UK; most of them are here now. Poland is still a possibility despite its recent reported affluence. The women tend to be a bit heavier and not quite as good looking as Slavic women on the whole. Again, worth casting a net there. Its a big country and history shows us that Poles are not against relocation. 

Handy too if your plumbing is need of an upgrade.

[Mike78]

I suspect all these things, particularly the language and culture, played a role in your success.  I know a number of guys that married Czechs, but they were all about your age or younger, and were living there at the time.

The one factor to consider in EU countries is that all those middle aged men who look a decade or more younger than their chronological ages likely will encounter a much shallower pond.

Yes, of course, I had certainly a big advantage. However, it was amazing just how much more succesful I was on the Slovak (local language only) dating website than I was on the Russian ones. Probably about 40% of the girls I wrote replied back positively. On the FSU, foreigner-oriented websites this rate was much, much lower for me (maybe 5%).
And yes, the "mail-order bride" boat long since sailed from there. If it was even ever there at all. This, in my opinion, is a good thing. Makes the things more sincere. And some girls would be willing to move for the right guy. But not because they would want to leave to have a better life in the west, but because, you know, they are in love and all that.

Overall, I think newly-admitted EU coutries may be a good option for the guys who are generally a somewhat good catch and are not looking for a huge age gap (but up to 8-10 yrs would be ok I think). Especially for western Europeans this is a very attractive destination due to no problems with immigration. Makes it easy to live together for a few years before getting married, I think this is always a good idea if you want to have a successful marriage.

[ML]

What I mean is why not try luck in the new EU member countries such as Visegrad four (Czech Rep., Slovakia, Poland, Hungary), Baltic countries, etc.?

Those going for huge age gaps can probably forget about this.

Your last sentence actually gives part of the clue as to why most men in this pursuit won't find success in the new EU countries you mention.

The other part of the clue is in economics.

Just why do you think a man can achieve huge age gaps (if he wants to) along with other disparities such as getting a gal who is much, much better looking than himself, etc. in FSU?

It is because of the economics.

If the economic gap isn't wide, then you can forget about finding a gal in a foreign country who is much more desireable (to you) than you can find in your home country.

[GQBlues]

D'akujem for the topic Mike.

I'll readily support your enthusiasm about Slovak and Czech gals as I've had nothing but favorable experiences with them. I've had 2 Slovak exs and one Czech and a whole bunch of friends from both places. Zora and Martina are arguably 2 of the top 10 very best looking women I've ever been with. Martina reminds me a lot of Paulina.

There's a very special place in my heart for Banska Bystrica, Poprad, and the Tatras. Spring/Summer of 2002 was an amazing time for me in CE. They are beautiful women with fantastic enthusiasm for life.

There's a fairly sizeable population of SL/CZ in PA and Canada today.

While I'll agree they're top notch talent, I don't think any of these women are open to date, let alone marry the the typical bride seekers you'll see in the streets of FSU.

Stay away from Halusky. It feels like lead in the tummy.

[Shadow]

Your last sentence actually gives part of the clue as to why most men in this pursuit won't find success in the new EU countries you mention.

The other part of the clue is in economics.

Just why do you think a man can achieve huge age gaps (if he wants to) along with other disparities such as getting a gal who is much, much better looking than himself, etc. in FSU?

It is because of the economics.

If the economic gap isn't wide, then you can forget about finding a gal in a foreign country who is much more desireable (to you) than you can find in your home country.

Which is evidence that if you do find a gal, you found a keeper rather than someone looking for a meal ticket. But if you are honest to yourself that the woman you are looking for would never agree to be with you without that economic gap, and will probably leave once the economic gap is no longer present, no problemo......

[Vinnvinny]

There's a very special place in my heart for Banska Bystrica, Poprad, and the Tatras. Spring/Summer of 2002 was an amazing time for me in CE. They are beautiful women with fantastic enthusiasm for life.

Times have changed tremendously in the past few years in both Prague and Bratislava. Whilst in the early 2000's very attractive and slim ladies were in abundance, now there are not so easy to see. I was in Bratislava a few weeks back and the girls weren't too dissimilar to those back home. The explosion of fast food restaurants and stalls was also noticeable too. Maybe that's the answer. 

[BC]

My head turned quite a few times in Prague.

You'll find beauties all over EU, but guess what.. you'll either short term rent or you'll have to start out looking, finding, dating the old fashioned way (IMHO best way).

The bottom line with this FSU marriage venture is that you are taking shortcuts, often big one's - in the end it's pot luck.

If you can't find a decent woman at home, you shouldn't be looking overseas.

Beauty can become ugly very quickly if what lies beneath ain't right to begin with.

[Gylden]

Bottom line, there are beautiful women everywhere. For those who say there are not IMO there is something wrong with them. The attitude/role of women in society in Europe, in general is different than in the US. Fashion is more diverse in Europe as well.
I know plenty of inter-European marriages and plenty western Euopean-American marriages. There are many women here from Estonia, Poland, Bulgaria, Latvia, Germany, England, US, etc.

The biggest difference, from what I can see is there is vary little "agency" type of involvement. FSU countries, especially Ukraine and Russia are the biggest part of the industry, although we are starting to see growth in the industry in Asia.

The "agency" involvement make it easier for the typical western man to access women. So IMO it is the agencies who dictate where most of the available women are.

[ML]

The biggest difference, from what I can see is there is vary little "agency" type of involvement. FSU countries, especially Ukraine and Russia are the biggest part of the industry, although we are starting to see growth in the industry in Asia.

The "agency" involvement make it easier for the typical western man to access women. So IMO it is the agencies who dictate where most of the available women are.

You may be using the term 'agency' very loosely . . . or not.

But with respect to the traditional agency, I think they are long past their prime.
I never ever used an agency, rather only web based match/dating sites.
There are tons of women there, so no need to pay 'by the contact' or 'by the letter' as with true agencies.
And with the widespread ownership of personal computers by the ladies, and tons  of internet cafes for those without such ownership, the female side doesn't really need agencies either.
Agencies only have a role to play for guys who need some hand holding, I think.

So, in conclusion, I don't think agencies dictate anything anymore.

[GQBlues]

Times have changed tremendously in the past few years in both Prague and Bratislava. Whilst in the early 2000's very attractive and slim ladies were in abundance, now there are not so easy to see. I was in Bratislava a few weeks back and the girls weren't too dissimilar to those back home. The explosion of fast food restaurants and stalls was also noticeable too. Maybe that's the answer.  

I did somewhat get that impression later in the time I was travelling to and from Sl and CZ. Later in those summers, some of the places I regularly visited appeared, or had a feeling of being 'empty'. Most of the ladies, and the gents, would be chomping at the bit during spring/summer as though they had places to go and people to see - which for the most part they did.

I remember there were growing national concern in '02-03 that a serious departure of the young was a threat for the national state and a program to avoid national 'brain drain' ensued promising more employment and opportunities for the younger generation.

This was heightened when they were accepted into the EU back in '04 I believe. Prior to that, I know SL was somewhat favored by the US because of their pro-western leaning attitudes for electing Dzurinda over Meciar, a pro-Moscow rival politician so consequently many 'young' Slovakians had a 'relatively' easy time getting visas to the US. But today however, I don't believe visas are required anymore, and if they do, fairly easy to acquire.

[Mike78]

I did somewhat get that impression later in the time I was travelling to and from Sl and CZ. Later in those summers, some of the places I regularly visited appeared, or had a feeling of being 'empty'. Most of the ladies, and the gents, would be chomping at the bit during spring/summer as though they had places to go and people to see - which for the most part they did.

I remember there were growing national concern in '02-03 that a serious departure of the young was a threat for the national state and a program to avoid national 'brain drain' ensued promising more employment and opportunities for the younger generation.

This was heightened when they were accepted into the EU back in '04 I believe. Prior to that, I know SL was somewhat favored by the US because of their pro-western leaning attitudes for electing Dzurinda over Meciar, a pro-Moscow rival politician so consequently many 'young' Slovakians had a 'relatively' easy time getting visas to the US. But today however, I don't believe visas are required anymore, and if they do, fairly easy to acquire.

I used to live in Bratislava, Slovakia until 2003, now I've been back after several years (before I was there in 2005 on a visit with my AW ex-wife). I really didn't notice that the girls would fatten up over those few years, still as beautiful as ever. I did, however, notice general improvements; the country just looks richer and more western, lot of new construction, etc. And girls definitely looked better (on average) than in USA. And, most importantly, had better attitude than their US counterparts. Of course there are plenty of pretty, slim girls in the USA, I'm actually dating a very attractive girl right here in Phoenix. However she acts like an effing princess quite a bit and this drives me crazy. The pretty girls here think like they're a god's gift to humanity or something. Well, for what it's worth, I'm pretty sure the American men are the ones who are enabling this attitude. And the abundance of fatties does it's part as well of course...

GQ: No US visa needed for Slovaks since last year

[3T_Ventus]

Mike78,

Some of these coutries you mentioned have agencies. You should search the internet and see first if they are scams, or fit the profile of a scam agency. Check also the ScamCard above.

I have been to Croatia for a few days with friends. Fun and a lot of really pretty girls. If you will take on this adventure I will advice you to go to the popular night clubs. You will not believe what you will see there Just amazing. Really attractive girls! I ended picking two Brazilian girls instead of a Croatian one.

I do think you will need a visa to get into Croatia. 

[facetrock]

  " Picking two Brazilian girls"  Can you elaborate on that a little more?

[3T_Ventus]

Mike78,

I will not go into too much into details for some things have to be kept private. I hope you will understand this.

Me and some friends stayed in Zagreb for a short while. Toured around this very beautiful country. On the day before leaving we decided to go partying. We asked a taxi driver were the most popular place was situated to go clubbing. On place was called 'the Piranha'. There were many full packed clubs in one street. Beautiful model looking ladies everywhere. My friends hooked up with some women. Unfortunately I was unlucky. Little did i know that At the end of the night i would be the most luckiest man at that moment...Next day I almost mist my flight back.

This was in 2007. I am more serious now. Clubbing is over and am looking for a serious lady.