My Thoughts on Starting Out

[josey wales]

This is my first time at bat, and am wondering why I should bother with lengthy correspondence with someone who could be a man in some office in Brussels.  And as far as agencies go, well, I looked at hundreds of nice pictures.  It seems the gamble is very expensive, with low chance of payout.  Now I must admit there is one girl I'm interested in contacting, mostly b/c she is over 30 and actually wears clothes in her pictures.  She must have failed Russian modeling school, which makes me "slightly" less guarded.  

Having said that, I cannot stress the importance of the 10 commandments, particularly #1.  A request for money is a request for Deletion.

Now I just had a novel idea.  Why not travel to your favorite FSU vacation spot without having to meet Ms (or if your unlucky-Mr.) Perfect via the scheduling of "SCAM4U" agency.  I just gotta believe the ladies are approachable there.  Of course a whirlwind romance can occur anytime, anywhere I suppose.  This tactic leaves much more to chance, but I'm wondering if I plan my first trip as such....a vacation!

Now since I'm most likely going to use a service for initial contacts, I'm going to evoke Josey Wales rule #17:  you must acquire phone and email/snail mail no later than two letters.  If they do not give this to you, then they will need to learn another foreign language--ADIOS.

Well seriously, I think I've started with some decent ground rules, mainly los Diez Mandamientos.

[Gator]

Welcome Josey/Clint! 

Good idea.  So good that I believe this is the way many of us went.   

If you work via Elena's Models, Russian Euro and others, the RW will communicate with you via their personal email provided you seem to satisfy their criteria for prospective men.  Nothing is filtered through the agency and interpreters.

Some women like to write letters, yet most women prefer webcam chats via Skype and real meetings. I had one to write me that she preferred intercourse!   I suppose she used a thesaurus.

The major issue you will face now is whether to visit many (VM) or one (VO).  Different opinions on that.

Good luck.
 

[BillyB]

Now since I'm most likely going to use a service for initial contacts, I'm going to evoke Josey Wales rule #17:  you must acquire phone and email/snail mail no later than two letters.  If they do not give this to you, then they will need to learn another foreign language--ADIOS.

Ease up on the 2 letter mark. Some ladies don't want to give out their number so quick to every man out there. If she's writing you detailed letters answering your questions and asking you questions, then she's interested in you. If she's writing you at all, she's interested in you. When you do get their numbers, call them often. You will feel good talking to some women and some women will feel good talking to you. Those are the ladies you want to visit. Some guys go to the FSU without prior phone communcation and can't figure out why there's lots of silence at the first meeting.

[Aloe]

Now since I'm most likely going to use a service for initial contacts, I'm going to evoke Josey Wales rule #17:  you must acquire phone and email/snail mail no later than two letters.  If they do not give this to you, then they will need to learn another foreign language--ADIOS.

Now, Josey Wales, why, why on earth am i supposed to give out my phone number to someone who is likely to call in the middle of the night, because half of the people out there are time-zone illiterate, and let alone give him my home address? What if he's an axe murderer or god knows what? It takes more than 2 letters to trust someone enough to give out such info.
I recommend using skype with voice/video, that's better than having maniacal crazy expectations that everyone should pass up their real address, keys to apartment and insturctions where the money is hidden in letter number 2 to some maniac Joe.  Do you even realize how crazy it sounds?

[Faux Pas]

IMHO, at least joseywales has an established point of when he wants a phone#/skype ID. This is good. Although, like Billy I would recommend not being so hard and fast on the second email. 3rd maybe 4th. There are always the subtle niceties to get out of the way and with a language barrier even that can take more than a few emails. I too, wasn't interested in long communications through email

[JR]

Now I just had a novel idea.  Why not travel to your favorite FSU vacation spot without having to meet Ms (or if your unlucky-Mr.) Perfect via the scheduling of "SCAM4U" agency.  I just gotta believe the ladies are approachable there.  

You probably won't be disappointed in this approach. If you got game in your home town you'll have game in your vacation spot.

Welcome and best of luck)))

[Daveman]

Now, Josey Wales, why, why on earth am i supposed to give out my phone number to someone who is likely to call in the middle of the night, because half of the people out there are time-zone illiterate, and let alone give him my home address? What if he's an axe murderer or god knows what? It takes more than 2 letters to trust someone enough to give out such info.
I recommend using skype with voice/video, that's better than having maniacal crazy expectations that everyone should pass up their real address, keys to apartment and insturctions where the money is hidden in letter number 2 to some maniac Joe.  Do you even realize how crazy it sounds?

I Agree Skype is better for the obvious reasons... however, I always asked for a phone number in either the second or third letter (depending upon how detailed the letters were) and not even one made an excuse or said "no".  I guess I must come across as harmless in photos and letters (I've been told by many RW that they believe they can can understand everything from a photo... Ted Bundy would have loved that attitude for sure).

I'm not saying it's crazy (it may be or possibly sounds so) or not - I just haven't run into a situation where the woman was put off or said "no" to the phone number within three letters, and most of the time two.  

As far a requests for money.. I never did run into that. I can't recall a woman ever asking me for money, though I DID break the commandment and send money for my flat ahead of time on numerous occasions (which also breaks the commandment to take care of your own accommodations..).. I just wasn't overly concerned about it because of the quality of communication. I had no doubt in the lady at all by the time of the visit. Compatibility was still a question of course, but integrity was not.  And even had one of them turned out to be a no show, I wasn't too worried about either the money or my well being there.

I'd say worry more about the woman's character, who she is, etc.. and don't be overly paranoid about "scammers". They are out there, but it didn't seem to be much of a problem for me.

And getting back to the point of just going... yep.. nothing wrong with that and should be great fun, however, doing it JUST to avoid the possibility of a scam is ridiculous because I just don't think the scams are as common as the paranoia.

[Faux Pas]

I'm not saying it's crazy (it may be or possibly sounds so) or not - I just haven't run into a situation where the woman was put off or said "no" to the phone number within three letters, and most of the time two.  

Of course now it's been awhile but, I can't remember a single woman that seemed or reacted put out or surprised that I asked for a phone number almost immediately. Most seemed quite happy that I did and I always offered my number in the request. I sense there's more hysteria than actual fact where this is concerned. I never had any reservations about asking or providing a number.

When a woman hesitated or came up with an excuse not to give me a number, I never contacted them again. To me that was a flag.

[kievstar]

There are many methods that work you need to do something that is comfortable for you and will get the results you need.

My advise the more you can visit the better the odds of finding the right one.  So pick an area you can visit (Ukraine, Russia) often.  RW are all different just like AW, something to remember.  Even the RW who contribute on this board are very much different. 

Have fun and remember it is not a race to get married.  Be yourself as well.

[Shadow]

Forget about any rules. commandments or whatever other things you wish to inhibit yourself with. There are two things you need.

First one is common sense. Yeah it is a tough one, but it really helps.
Second one is the idea that you are looking for a life partner. Not someone that will say yes because it suits her, not someone who wants to get in to your pants (especially the back pocket of them).

As for the rest, do what you are happy to do, use those people and services that suit your own possibilities.

[Vinnvinny]

Second one is the idea that you are looking for a life partner. Not someone that will say yes because it suits her, not someone who wants to get in to your pants (especially the back pocket of them).

Of course if you are approaching you 80th birthday then its prudent to be a little flexible with this.

[josey wales]

Ease up on the 2 letter mark. Some ladies don't want to give out their number so quick to every man out there. If she's writing you detailed letters answering your questions and asking you questions, then she's interested in you. If she's writing you at all, she's interested in you. When you do get their numbers, call them often. You will feel good talking to some women and some women will feel good talking to you. Those are the ladies you want to visit. Some guys go to the FSU without prior phone communcation and can't figure out why there's lots of silence at the first meeting.

I see your point.  You are probably saying "use your common sense".  Very well, but I refuse to engage in a 6 month email/snail mail letter campaign. 

What to decide is to make this a vacation for me, or spend extra time/money doing the online correspondence.  There are interesting places to see in the Ukraine, and can have a good time site-seeing by myself.  On the other hand, having a lady at my side will make the trip more pleasant.  I'm contemplating using the services this forum has described, but don't have much patience for online correspondence with ladies who jerk dudes off for their wallets.  And the whole agency thing seems like a risk you take with your life (literally).

Speaking of agencies, I've been reading through quite a few posts on the forum, and haven't seen too much positive feedback....albeit I've only been reading this forum for a couple of days.

So what I gather from people's responses are to get a little more sensitive on the phone number/email issue.  Perhaps.  But the lady will be clear on two simple facts:  I'm eager to be a good husband and am visiting the Ukraine soon.  Oops, an extra fact:  no jerk-off scammers allowed.

[facetrock]

  Going to Ukraine for a vacation first, babes second is a very good idea. Two letters might be pushing it a bit for a phone number through email. The trick is if they have good enough English is to get them on chat in skype or yahoo or whatever. Dont be afraid to push for that. Once there and you click phone number with address will come very fast.
  I really think skype is the way to go even if she doesnt have a cam. You can at least hear each other a lot better than any phone connection and its free.
  I think your on the right track. Good luck.

[Daveman]

correspondence with ladies who jerk dudes off for their wallets.  And the whole agency thing seems like a risk you take with your life (literally).

Speaking of agencies, I've been reading through quite a few posts on the forum, and haven't seen too much positive feedback....albeit I've only been reading this forum for a couple of days.

So what I gather from people's responses are to get a little more sensitive on the phone number/email issue.  Perhaps.  But the lady will be clear on two simple facts:  I'm eager to be a good husband and am visiting the Ukraine soon.  Oops, an extra fact:  no jerk-off scammers allowed.

Perhaps it's just the way I'm reading your posts, but you really seem to have a chip about scammers.  If you are going there, you can use the patented kievstar method of "write none go meet in person" via anastasia. Cindy agency is another with which several have had good luck. 

I haven't used an agency either but rather websites... the only problem with going and meeting ladies on the street is the same you have anywhere - to meet a compatible woman (other than her looks), it's a matter of same place same time luck.  At least with a decent agency who know the women, they can point you to the kinds of ladies you like.  However, regardless of in person, agency, email, whatever, it's not a good idea to broach the topic of scammers.  Keep that aspect to yourself and just use your common sense.

[Gator]

...but I refuse to engage in a 6 month email/snail mail letter campaign.

Not to worry; 95% of the women will feel the same.

What to decide is to make this a vacation for me...

This is exactly the way I went for my first trip in 2002.  I visited the Big Three cities plus Crimea, and met a local RW/UW in each place.  If a UW/RW likes you, she will happily show you her city.  Good time had by all.

... or spend extra time/money doing the online correspondence. 

You have a CONFLICT and must make a tradeoff.  If you want a RW to take time off from her job and spend it with you, you will need to invest time in building a relationship.  It will take a couple of months:  start with 2-3 emails and transition to Skype, talking at least twice per week.  Otherwise, the best you can expect are meetings during her lunch break, an evening date, and a block of time over the weekend.  And maybe being jerked around, especially if your trip is WMVM.

Why do you  say "spend extra money?"  You need to realize that extended communication does not cost extra money.  Skype is free.   The only way you will spend extra money is to become hooked on a pay by letter scheme.  Avoid "pay by letter" agencies. 

... but don't have much patience for online correspondence with ladies who jerk dudes off for their wallets. 

And the whole agency thing seems like a risk you take with your life (literally).

… no jerk-off scammers allowed.

Frankly, you sound paranoid, and this will turn off the sincere women.  My advice:  behave as if the RW is a decent, sincere, good hearted woman.  Do not be a skeptical  detective.  Meeting RW is fun, a lot of fun.    Enjoy your time with them.  Learn something.  All the RW I met (and I met maybe over 25 women) were sincere and most were fun loving.   

 
So what I gather from people's responses are to get a little more sensitive on the phone number/email issue.

Become more sensitive on everything.  Try to put yourself in the  woman’s shoes.

[SomeGuy]

Not to worry; 95% of the women will feel the same.
 
This is exactly the way I went for my first trip in 2002.  I visited the Big Three cities plus Crimea, and met a local RW/UW in each place.  If a UW/RW likes you, she will happily show you her city.  Good time had by all.

You have a CONFLICT and must make a tradeoff.  If you want a RW to take time off from her job and spend it with you, you will need to invest time in building a relationship.  It will take a couple of months:  start with 2-3 emails and transition to Skype, talking at least twice per week.  Otherwise, the best you can expect are meetings during her lunch break, an evening date, and a block of time over the weekend.  And maybe being jerked around, especially if your trip is WMVM.

Why do you  say "spend extra money?"  You need to realize that extended communication does not cost extra money.  Skype is free.   The only way you will spend extra money is to become hooked on a pay by letter scheme.  Avoid "pay by letter" agencies. 

+1 
There is generally no good reason today to pay per letter, or to have an agency 'in between' your communications.

Frankly, you sound paranoid, and this will turn off the sincere women.  My advice:  behave as if the RW is a decent, sincere, good hearted woman.  Do not be a skeptical  detective.  Meeting RW is fun, a lot of fun.    Enjoy your time with them.  Learn something.  All the RW I met (and I met maybe over 25 women) were sincere and most were fun loving.   

+10
Some level of skepticism may be common sense, but do not let this come across in your communications with sincere women.  They will very likely (rightfully so) become quite offended.  Also, do not play scam hunter - if someone is a scammer then move on, there are lots of sincere women out there.