I wanna move to Canada

[Leelou]

Somehow I think that getting to the nearest skiing location from Belgian city or town will take approximately the same amount of time/same distance as getting to the nearest skiing location in Canada.
Although I understand Aloe's sentiments for snow (i like it too), I somehow think that she is working on the symptoms and side effects rather than working on the causes/real factors.

I don't know what kind of travels Canadians do to go to skiing locations, but I doubt their distance would be longer than for the Belgians.
Most Belgians who enjoy winter sports either go to the south of the country where there are few good stations, but most of them go to Austria and Switzerland with very unexpensive travelpacks. With the low costs airlines, it's now in Europe often faster and less expensive to take a plane to go to a place then to go by car. Look, I go to Florence next week for a return ticket of 56 euros... If I do the same travel by car I will have to pay way more than the double (and the trip would take me two days, while by plane it's only 1,5 hours).

[GQBlues]

The saying...One man's hell is another man's heaven!... is probably appropriate here.
 
I've been to Brussels and Vancouver, and while I am honestly saying they both have wonderful qualities about them (being beautiful is but one of many), if I had to choose between the two, then I'd choose Vancouver for the simple reason of its close proximity to an ocean, my Pacific Ocean.
I was born close to the ocean and I have never lived anywhere for an extended period of time being away from it.
 

...I don't know what kind of travels Canadians do to go to skiing locations, but I doubt their distance would be longer than for the Belgians.

Took us nearly 3 hours to drive to Whistler Mountain from the city. But we did had some ladies with us, so there were more p-stops than usual.

[Leelou]

This is my understanding of snow and nature:

It is indeed very nice and be sure I appreciate it. I also visited New Zealand a few years ago and there it's clearly amazing, never visited a country that impressed me more in terms of nature.

You might still have fun with our silly Belgian nature standards... but here are some pictures of the region where my family comes from in Belgium 

http://www.pbase.com/tineke/image/74237880

http://www.pbase.com/tineke/image/74240509

and this is a nice place near the city where my mother is born

http://www.pbase.com/tineke/image/77948103

[Misha]

You might still have fun with our silly Belgian nature standards... but here are some pictures of the region where my family comes from in Belgium 

Nice! If this is a bike trail in the foreground, I could live in Belgium 


http://www.pbase.com/tineke/image/74240509

[Leelou]

Nice! If this is a bike trail in the foreground, I could live in Belgium 


http://www.pbase.com/tineke/image/74240509

Possible... biking and cycling (especially clyclo-cross) are extremely popular in Belgium, I think it is surely the most popular sport after footbal (soccer)... To be honest, I am not very good at it, last time I did some cyclo-cross, I finished 2 days at the hospital...
 

[SANDRO43]

Nice! If this is a bike trail in the foreground...

It was also a tank trail, used by the Germans TWICE in WWII - the Ardennes forest .

[Anotherkiwi]

It is indeed very nice and be sure I appreciate it. I also visited New Zealand a few years ago and there it's clearly amazing, never visited a country that impressed me more in terms of nature...

Thanks, Leelou - what was then our Tourist and Publicity Department (now the Ministry of Tourism) ran a campaign in the 1970s called "Don't Leave Town 'til you've seen the Country" - in other words, see your own country first before heading overseas.  I'm very proud to live in such a place, where every tourist's first reaction is so similar to yours (including a Russian friend who spent a few weeks here last year).
 
Maybe Aloe should come here instead of Canada!

[Leelou]

Thanks, Leelou - what was then our Tourist and Publicity Department (now the Ministry of Tourism) ran a campaign in the 1970s called "Don't Leave Town 'til you've seen the Country" - in other words, see your own country first before heading overseas.  I'm very proud to live in such a place, where every tourist's first reaction is so similar to yours (including a Russian friend who spent a few weeks here last year).
 
Maybe Aloe should come here instead of Canada!

New Zealand is simply amazing. There is no words, each part of the country looks like pure paradise, it was my most beautiful travel ever.
I fell so in love with the country that I got NZ tattoed on one of my shoulders (that's true!!)

I can't wait to go back there as soon as I have time/financial means 

[Anotherkiwi]

New Zealand is simply amazing. There is no words, each part of the country looks like pure paradise, it was my most beautiful travel ever.
I fell so in love with the country that I got NZ tattoed on one of my shoulders (that's true!!)

I can't wait to go back there as soon as I have time/financial means 

I'll just pass your details on to the Ministry - I'm sure they'll pay for the trip! 

[Misha]

I don't know what kind of travels Canadians do to go to skiing locations, but I doubt their distance would be longer than for the Belgians.

British Columbia is effectively one big ski resort as we have a number of mountain chains that cut across the province. Even small local mountains would feature exceptional skiing. Out East, Mont Tremblant was popular in Québec along with some others...

[Aloe]

Hi!
I first wrote an extensive reply to your post, but unfortunately it crashed and I lost all of my writing, so I hope I will back here most of what I wanted to say.
First, I am happy that you finally decided to answer with some valuable arguments. Very different from the silly stuff you offered us in your last posts. Second, I am also happy you finally decided to react, since without your contribution there can only be speculation about what provokes your current frustration of living in Belgium.


 
Indeed, because there is no way to compare countries such as Russia and Canada that are geographically and culturally Winter countries to a place like Belgium that is a normal Western temperate country where winters are not too cold, and summers are not too hot (which is also seen by many people as an advantage, but I will admit I don't agree with them).
However, what I think is well laughable is moving to another country and expecting to find the same kind of conditions you experienced while being home, and when this doesn't happen, to complain about it. If you had done just a bit of homework before coming here, you would have found out that winter conditions in Belgium are very different to the ones you got in Russia.
I was in Moscow last summer and everyone was complaining about the hot summer. You know, for me those temperatures were quite fine, since I experienced more than 42° every year while being in Italy. Reactions of Russians were quite laughable. That doesn't change the fact I didn't started barking at the moon that Russia has no decent summer time.

 
 
You definitely belgianized yourself a bit if you think 30min of car is a long drive. Where is your Russian perception of distances gone to?

 
 
They barely have heavy snow equipment because it's simply not a usual situation in this country. Belgium is no exception, all Western Europe is like this and this why we often experience transport problems once Winter has arrived. Situation in the UK last year was particularly difficult, and yet for a Russian the amount of snow was surely modest.
Every country has its own particularities and services adapted to the kind of situations it is mostly used to deal with. Not so long ago, because of warm temperature, there were significant fires in Russia that caused severe damages. Even people in Moscow found it difficult to go outside because of the air. And what could that mean? Russia has specificities due to its climate and its normal that services there are less prepared when it comes to deal with problems related to hot weather.
Now, when it comes to it, I agree they should do something, because now in Western Europe (and that includes many other countries than Belgium) we get the same Winter problems every year and they should learn from it, getting experience form the countries that face strong Winters every year, to develop better strategies to deal with the cold.

 
And your remark surprises me. Because I am a Belgian born and raised, and I am currently in this awful and unvaluable Belgium as I am writing to you, and I do not experience what you say. This is the reason why I will ask you again the same question I already asked, where do you live exactly in Belgium? Don't worry, I don't want your precise adress, but your region, your city?
You see, you might very well live in a very populated region of Flanders, and Flanders is already very much populated. But though Belgium remains a small country, this is not the same everywhere you go. I always experienced space here, as there is more space in the country as you're going south.
Have you ever been to the Ardennes?
I have friends living there, and they choose to be there because they live in the nature, their houses are located in forests, they enjoy the nature feel you're talking about. Very well, it might not reach the standards you're talking about, but saying all Belgium looks and feels like what you're describing is I think an exageration from you.

 
I never experienced such thing during my childhood here. We have forests and we used to go there often with school, those are strong memories for me. And you see, after I finished writing to you, I will go walk my dog in the forest closeby, not a garden, not a park... a normal forest. Sure, I will surely not meet some fantastic Canadian grizzlies during this walk, but it's still nature. Before condamning the country in its whole as you're currently doing, why not first questioning the precise region where you're living? I can assure life is not necessarily the same in every part of Belgium.
You could also realize that your children won't have anything programmed in their genetics that will allow them only to have fun the way you did in your childhood. Like another user said to you, kids have fun everywhere with anything, unless the country they live in is called Ethiopia or Afghanistan.
We are all born somewhere and we had fun with what we had. You are Russian and you had fun the Russian way. Some guys here are Canadians and they had fun their way. I am Belgian and I had fun during my childhood. Your kids will simply grow up in their reality, not in the one you grew up in when you were a child. They surely would love many things anywhere you decide to raise them.
Recently we celebrated Saint-Nicolas in Russia with the family of my girl, she said to me it was one of the most enjoyable child-stuff she ever experienced. And Saint-Nicolas is really a BeNeLux thing, with all the games that it involves. There are also so many great things for kids in Belgium.
One of my friends is married and has a little girl in Mexico. Never does he complain about the fact his daughter doesn't experience a childhood the belgian way. She just grow up there and has fun the Mexican way, with what Mexico can give her. They are happy, they are not terrified at the idea that unlike in Belgium, they can't drive great carbikes and run in the sandmountains on the sea side... His daughter enjoys another type of childhood than his own... he is happy, she is happy, there is no need for him to force his daughter to live her child years the exact same way he did.
And you see, even if in the case you decide to stay in Belgium and that sadly your child grows up unhappy in Belgium... I would not first look at the inner characteristics of Belgium... I would surely more look towards the behaviour of the mother that would constantly speak negatively of the place where they are living in, developing in this kid a certain disdain for the place he is born in.
I hear birds every morning and I feed them myself I am sorry but I really need to know where you're living so that I can know I must not go to that place
No, what is childish is like I explained previously, not doing some homework about the place where you decided to go living in and then complained that it doesn't feel right like home.
In a bit I go to live for a few months with my fiancée in Moscow, how stupid would that be from me to expect there to enjoy the same kind of summer I enjoyed while being in Italy? How silly would that be to complain about such kind of things. I highly prefer to concentrate on what Russia and Moscow have new to offer me. Enjoyable, particular things and learn how to see and appreciate the beauty of it. Not complaining all the time about the fact Russia doesn't feel and doesn't give the same things as home.
I do not criticize the fact you came here to join your husband. I actually respect. And I do also because I did the same already in my life. I went to Italy mainly for a relationship that unfortunately didn't work out in the long run. Though I finally didn't enjoy the experience of living permanently in Italy (mainly due to professional problems), it would have never come to my mind to connect on a Forum to bash everything Italian, using a majority of silly arguments, just to express some latent frustration of not being happy there.What is funny is how you accept your own rudeness and treat it as a virtue. And even worst, you hypocritically hide your lack of respect behind the unfixed meaning of some of your words. Fact is that you don't connect here sharing your thoughts about this country in a correct way, you just trash everything in sight without exception. Not just once, but often.
If you feel my sayings as a “GTFO”, then I suppose me, and possibly other Belgian citizens who love their country, feels your posts like “this country is a big pile full of shit”. You definitely are way more impolite then you think, and even if I totally assume my words and that I surely personally have some things to work on concerning my style of writing, you might also realise I took some time to debate with you... while other users ignored your words and simply called you a “pain in the ass”.

 Darling,
When I went abroad, I always went with the idea I could stay there forever. I always had to work to get my own money and make a living. This is a significant difference with people who immigrate to be with a husband/wife that pays for all of their bills.
And please know that I lived in places like the XIII district in Budapest, where people experience a level of life very similar to the one of poor Russian families “Dostoevsky style”. And I can tell you that it is way more difficult to adapt in a place where the only language to communicate is Hungarian, at the difference of places like Brussels where nearly everything is available in English.If your mindset was really, “old life is done and gone forever”, then you would not have so many difficulties to adapt
However, I do agree that such mentality would be damaging and no, old life is never gone forever. Because it is in it that you get your experiences. But getting them to annihilate your capacity to move towards something new is a problem.I am currently spending a significant amount of time to explain to her what is to move to another country and how it feels like. I of course speak by experience but I encourage her to talk with some of her friends that already did it.
I also encourage her to get inspire by people who emigrated here successfully, people who have positive energy and ideas to share with her. To give her confidence. That also includes some foreign friends of mine that are now in Belgium and managed to build good things here. I can mention a dear Hungarian friend who just wrote me an email yesterday saying she's just been offered her dream-job in the fashion industry in Brussels, how she blesses the day she decided to move here and how she feels never such could have happened in the place she was before.
I also spoke about your posts. Just to tell her what kind of people she will need to avoid once being here. People that are constantly casting bad energy and negativity. People who spend hours to paint their world and the world around them in black.
I am also telling her that I know very well that at some point she will feel the nostalgia, there will be moments more difficult. I doubt she will really miss Moscow, as a significant part of her happy thoughts lay in Ossetia, very sadly destroyed by war during the last years. But most of all, I know she will miss the presence of her mother and sister, that she never left. But I will also tell her that with good energy, will and love around her (that might be one of your problems here), there is no reason for her not to become successful here since what is also available in this country. I am already always available to listen to her feelings, and will always be... but I hope that when she will need to complain, it will be not in such a childish-whiny-bitchy little manner as you do. No offence to little childish whining bitches here.

Great news for you, there are nuclear reactors in North America too. Seems like the risk is potentially the same. Russia has one of the lowest life expectancy rates in Europe, if not in the world. Never saw such masses of people dying in their 50/60s before I came to Russia. And talking about North America including Canada, those guys live in general 6 years less than the average European. Maybe it's because of the crappy food they are eating all day.
Isn't that silly? I agree. You see, such meaningless comments can be written about any place. What I mean by this is that you should relax... You are in Western Europe and though it is surely not paradise here, there is no more threat to your health being here than in other places.
You might not live in the same kind of reality than most of the people here, but once you will grow up you will realize that for most families 80euros per month for every child (knowing there is a percentage of increase for every birth) is something that no one refuses neither neglects. I am even more surprised by your writing since on this Forum you often complained about the fact you feel there is not enough money in your marriage right now to allow you the level of life you desire. Strange then that you start spitting on the money the State is ready to give you in case you become a mother.
Needless to say that I am also very surprised by how you're trying to find a place where it is possible to enjoy a comfortable level of life, to raise a family and having only one salary. In 2012, in developed Western economies, such situation doesn't exist anymore. I won't go to the point of saying that you're waiting for things to be given to you on a silver plate, but the question might come at some point.
The welfare system is so good that a child can stay covered by the social security system of his parents until the 25^th birthday, even if he is unemployed. By the way, the fact that our system is so generous is exactly the reason why Belgium has one of the highest rate in family immigration in Europe. People have no problem at using the family-reunion law to come over here with all their parents and children and get the benefits of the social system since foreigners are also entitled to have it here even if they never worked here and never participated to the system.
It's not uncommon, actually the French are even more generous and this is why they are the country in Europe with the highest rate of family immigration. I do not criticize it, I do not criticize the people doing so, I am just stating the situation here.

 Great, here is one thing that we agree about!!!
Indeed, this system is great but it costs us a lot of money, too much money. If you wanna know, at the last election I didn't support the actual government and though I think Elio Di Rupo is a very nice man, I think his policies will make the situation even more difficult in the long run.
I totally agree the level of taxes in Belgium is tremendous. But you see, as an independent and soon opening a new business, I am the first one to criticize the fact small business owners are suffocated by taxes. And I will say to you that if there is really something to criticize strongly in Belgium, it is the fact that it is a society where culturally any kind of entrepreneurial spirit is very small.
However, I would like also to mention the fact (and you know it since you seem to be following the news) that we're right now in one of the most terrifying economic crisis in modern history. Is there any country where right now there is no bad cuts in the states' spendings? Haven't the Britons fought the police in the streets of London very recently about cuts in education? Haven't the French strongly protested against the Pension system's reforms? And Canada, how are they doing over there? Is by any chance and magic/divine intervention Canada the only country where the crisis doesn't have an impact on social welfare and the life of people?

 Possible. In North America they are quite good and there is no way here to deny that fact. At least the education system seems to be way more honest than the one found in the US.
By the way, I also have a significant part of my family that is Canadian. They were born and raised in Edmonton. Now that they came back, they never tell anything special about the difference of level of life between Canada and Belgium, they tell me they pretty much can afford the same thing with their salary than when they were over there.Maybe its helpful for people like you?
You mentioned often that there is not enough money at home right now to allow you to have the level of life you want, and on another thread you also mentioned that you think not being able to get a job before the next 4 years.
Personally I do think it is good that at least there is a possibility for people in need to enjoy things that gives them a better life. It might not be perfect, and I sure want it to be reformed, but fact is that in many countries around the globe (including the one where you're born) many people would appreciate the fact such program exists.
And honestly, even if you're trashing our country in such a silly manner, I am still happy this opportunity is also open to you if really in the future you need something better.Great, here a second thing we agree about.
Yes, I totally agree with you, there are a lot of people using the system in Belgium. It is even more the case when it comes to unemployment benefits for life.
I can even give you a proper example, the one of the father of Romelu Lukaku, the famous Belgian football player. While still he and his brother are professional football players (and Romelu plays in Chelsea with the great salary that comes with it), his family got a social house. Simply because the wages of those two sons were not included in the application file.
I think it is a scandal when you see the amount of money those sportmen do... But still, even if we agree that this system must be strongly reformed... does that mean it is totally unuseful and that we should send it to the trashbin?Healthcare is free if you go directly to the hospital. It is not uncommon, it's pretty much the case in many European countries. I've been unemployed during 2 months in the UK and I went to the hospital for cares. Never had to pay anything. It is the same in Belgium.
However you are right, someone pays the bill in the end and we do it with taxes. But you see, healthcare remains free for people like you... because it is paid by people like your husband and me, people that do work and do pay those taxes
You already are a polyglot. Your English is excellent, way better than mine and it is even more amazing because your native language is Russian and that you had to make more efforts to reach that level than me.
Listen, one of my passion is languages. I speak fluently French, English, Dutch and Italian. I also have a good level in Hungarian and I start to express myself in Russian. I am not expecting people to share this passion, and I am absolutely not showing myself in example, but I can also honestly tell you that, knowing several languages and with years of experience in teaching French to foreigners from different ages and backgrounds... good will is the main thing.
I learned English and Italian while being a student in Belgium, experiencing the same education system as you're in right now, with the blocuses, ect...
Knowing that French shares 60-65% of its content with English, there is no reason why you could not reach a very advanced level in French quickly and easily. Especially when I see how you master English.I think you have a lot of pinky ideas about the food industry in the world, including Canada.And so Belgium is. We have the city in the world, Brussels, where the most languages are spoken. There is no way to compare here Canada with Belgium on this as I truly believe that in terms of immigration, those countries are pretty much the same.Exactly. And this is when people are talking in such an absolute manner that generally problems arise. You said it yourself, you never been to Canada and unfortunately you described something that happens very often with people having severe mood swings... I just saw something on TV....
All in all, I am not here to fight you.
I don't care if you don't like here. I just feel sympathy for your case because I lived a long time abroad and I know what it feels to adapt to a new place. I wish you could find it easier. I have no advices to give to you, you would not listen anyway.... But I can only join the other users that replied to you, saying your posts and threads are full of other things, and that this might be more the source of your actual frustration.
And do not forget this famous sentence in French that I will try to translate to English for you...
“All around the world, an unhappy person always takes its own sadness in his luggages”.
Cheers, peace, and good luck!

Leelou, you are writing as if you knew me in real life. You don't.
In your writing you assume that i run around Belgium telling all the belgians how their country sucks. lol. No. I came to an internet forum, which i have been a part of for many years, to vent my frustrations. There are no active belgian members here. There have been some in the past but they all left. You are new, and probably won't stick around, same as 99% of other newbies. So for all i know, this is a no-belgians forum where I have internet friends i can come and talk to and who will listen. And if someone called me a pain in the ass, it is in kind jest, and not in an offensive way that they did that, like you just assumed. So you don't need to use other people calling me a pain in the ass as an argument to support your point, because it doesn't.
So yes, as i was saying, i come to my online friends to vent my frustrations and get some valuable input, as has happened multiple times in the past. Then you jump in and start accusing me of being a negative nancy sowing negativity, whining and bitching around me. Lol. Whatever. Just don't act like you know me in real life while you "warn your fiancee about people like me". I don't know, maybe you prefer to whine and bitch to your partner, but i'd rather do (most of) it online to get it out of my system. FYI, i have not told anyone in real life that i don't like it here, except my husband (a couple of times and not nearly as elaborately as i'm doing it on the forum). So you can stop assuming that i'm running around in real life critisizing Belgium or being negative in general to anyone who is unfortunate enough to be of my acquaintance.


And as far as politeness goes, as i said, icame here to complain to my online friends about my life. Other people do EXACTLY the same but usually with real life friends. How is this impolite? None of these people are Belgian, so i know for sure non of them would be offended. I don't see anything impolite about it. You on the other hand, throwing phrases around like "i warn my fiancee about people like you" sound quite impolite, because you make assumptions about the way i behave in real life based on my internet venting.


If my topic is offensive for you, then don't read it. This is the internet, you can close the page you dislike at any moment.


And by the way, i "finally decided to reply", as you put it, because i am busy in real life, and i don't check this forum very often, so again, don't assume i'm lurking around ignoring people talking to me.
You can say i "finally replied" because i was gone from the forum, but not "finally decided to reply" because that phrase implies that i'd seen this topic update and didn't reply, which isn't the case.


Also your putting my words referring to lazy non-working people in bold font, implying i'm the one who needs to get a job, isn't very polite either is it. If you must know why i wrote about not being able to get a job for another 4 years, it is because that is the duration of a bachelor+master degree that i'm busy with, although they are planning to make it 5 years. So again, bold facing those words and saying "Maybe its helpful for people like you?". Do you normally use the phrase "people like you" when talking to people, like you just did twice to me? What are those people like, who are like me? Tell me all about it, you seem to know me so well, making so many assumptions.


And yes i live in Flanders, next to Leuven.


And while you are talking to your fiancee about what it's like to move abroad, don't forget to mention that it's freaking cold in the houses in Belgium. And freaking way too expensive to get warm. So everyone who moves from FSU are freezing their butts off here, definitely the first few months. Nothing makes someone as miserable as being constantly cold in their own home. It's horrible. I'm still cold. I have to wear super thick warm tights, leg warmers, jeans, and a long sweater just to keep kind of warm in my own house, and still my hands are completely frozen. The thermostat claims it's 22 degrees C in here, but i'm sure it's wrong,  i wouldn't be this frozen at 22 degrees. And turning up the heat even more is unpayable. I know people who sleep in hats.
For a person from FSU this may come as a shock having to dress this warm in your own house. I used to walk around the house in a skirt and a summer top, now i look like an eskimo.



Maybe you had time to learn other languages while studying, doesn't mean all of us do. Were all your degree courses at university given in a third language that you began studying from zero 2 years ago? Like for instance hungarian? I'm sure it wasn't, so your comparing your student times with mine is not very correct. I have to spend 30 minutes at some exams looking up the meaning of words before i can start writing my answers, where they allow the use of a dictionary. And just use some guesswork where they don't.
I don't think it's smart to pick up a 4th language course in this situation. And my french pronunciation sucks badly, so i want to focus on that from the get go, instead of starting the course now and learning to pronounce incorrectly because i have no time to practice due to the university being more important. It takes a lot longer to learn to do something well if you learn to do it wrong from the beginning, because of the habits you have to unlearn, than to pay extra attention and practice to do it correctly from the very start.

[Aloe]

So you are saying Belgium can be different. You really didn't need to go all out on the offensive if that was your point. You could be right, i have not seen all of Belgium. I am writing about my Belgium, the one that surrounds me every day.

I am not willing to move to the french part where they have SOME nature. It is far from civilization and they speak french there!! In Brussels they speak french as well, so that isn't very helpful. I'm sick of being addressed in french every day. I don't understand any of it. But every day every day people come and talk french to me, in shops, on the streets. Really sick of it. And i'm not learning it for the reasons i already mentioned. And every time, which is every day, i have to open my mouth and tell them i don't understand what the hell they are saying, it makes me feel inferior and stupid for not being able to understand them. I don't like feeling stupid that often.

[Aloe]

And Brussels at night is plain unsafe for a woman. Even the very center, whenever i'm shopping on the main shopping street, when it's dark, there are arabic looking people who come up and talk french to me or just yell french at me or just whistle or whatever. And i don't know what the hell they are yelling or saying. I don't feel safe, and i'm not dressed like a hooker.  But then again, by true moslim standards anyone who isn't completely covered is dressed like a hooker. You'll say i'm focusing on the negative, well i just plain don't feel safe in Brussels in the evening, and that is at one of the main streets in the very center, very lighted and crowded. Let alone darker streets. How am i supposed to enjoy Brussels like this, if i don't feel safe walking there in the evening?

[Slumba]

I have to say Aloe, I laughed at your "puny" snow post... I kept imagining it said in a deep, Arnold Schwarzenegger style voice.

"You Beljins haff only de PUNY snow!"

"Snow only fit for de girly-mans!"

[Leelou]

 

Leelou, you are writing as if you knew me in real life. You don't.

 
Very few people on this forum know each other in real life. Actually it's even the case on most forums, whatever the subject is. I am just replying to what you write, the same way you feel free to reply to what I write. We all assume things from what each user decide to share here, that's pretty how it works when it comes to Forum writing. If you dislike that people you don't know in real life react about what you write, I guess the Internet will often annoys you very much.

 

In your writing you assume that i run around Belgium telling all the belgians how their country sucks. lol. No. I came to an internet forum, which i have been a part of for many years, to vent my frustrations. There are no active belgian members here. There have been some in the past but they all left. You are new, and probably won't stick around, same as 99% of other newbies.

 
I am not new It's been more than one year than I read here, but I post very rarely. Seems like your literature pushed me to post more than I have time to do so

 

So for all i know, this is a no-belgians forum where I have internet friends i can come and talk to and who will listen. And if someone called me a pain in the ass, it is in kind jest, and not in an offensive way that they did that, like you just assumed. So you don't need to use other people calling me a pain in the ass as an argument to support your point, because it doesn't.
 

 
I am not that sure of that

 

Lol. Whatever. Just don't act like you know me in real life
 

 
See above.

 

while you "warn your fiancee about people like me". I don't know, maybe you prefer to whine and bitch to your partner, but i'd rather do (most of) it online to get it out of my system. FYI, i have not told anyone in real life that i don't like it here, except my husband (a couple of times and not nearly as elaborately as i'm doing it on the forum). So you can stop assuming that i'm running around in real life critisizing Belgium or being negative in general to anyone who is unfortunate enough to be of my acquaintance.

 
Well as I said, you're free to do whatever you want here, the same way I'm free to say what I want about what you write It's good if you have the intelligence not to speak to people in real life the same way you do here, and because I'm quite a nice guy, I will simply believe what you say


 

And as far as politeness goes, as i said, icame here to complain to my online friends about my life. Other people do EXACTLY the same but usually with real life friends. How is this impolite? None of these people are Belgian, so i know for sure non of them would be offended. I don't see anything impolite about it.

 
I think the style you use about the place you live in is generally impolite.
A lot of things you say about Belgium here are offensive, you may remember that some people are born in this place you enjoy to trash so much. That they connect on this Forum often or not doesn't really matter. When you decide to write in such way, you know that you take the risk to hurt the feelings of some people who have a significant part of their life related to this country.
I don't deny you the right to write in that way if this is what you want. There is no Lubyanka for Internet users in Belgium. However, just take your responsibilities when you write something. When people are impolite they usually don't see anything wrong in what they say, that's the reason why other people generally have to refer it to them (I am a human being so it applies to me too sometimes )

You on the other hand, throwing phrases around like "i warn my fiancee about people like you" sound quite impolite, because you make assumptions about the way i behave in real life based on my internet venting.

 
Well you throw out at me that I was a dwarf that could be not sensitive to the problems of my girl if ever she had to experience a similar frustration to yours. If you feel free to write such things to people, don't be surprised they allow themselves to write you back something. I know us people born in French culture were quite pushed to be overly gentlemanly with Ladies, but things always stop at some point.

If my topic is offensive for you, then don't read it. This is the internet, you can close the page you dislike at any moment.

 
This is the Internet, you can decide to react to anything. I disliked what you wrote often here, I decided to react. Thank you to letting me having the choice of what I want to do. Similarly, if you don't like my posts, then don't read it, if this your golden rule.

Also your putting my words referring to lazy non-working people in bold font, implying i'm the one who needs to get a job, isn't very polite either is it.

 
You assuming that people in that service must be such lazy non-working people was impolite in the first place. But right, you religiously say you're not being impolite. Maybe you're just arrogant then.
You have a husband that pays for all your bills, bless you. I am happy this is that way for you, so that you don't have to be part of those people who need to ask for public assistance. Just stop being silly when you write about social programs like this, even if you are right that they need serious reforms, they still bring value to the life of many people in need. Just stop being an hypocrite here.

 

If you must know why i wrote about not being able to get a job for another 4 years, it is because that is the duration of a bachelor+master degree that i'm busy with, although they are planning to make it 5 years. So again, bold facing those words and saying "Maybe its helpful for people like you?". Do you normally use the phrase "people like you" when talking to people, like you just did twice to me? What are those people like, who are like me? Tell me all about it, you seem to know me so well, making so many assumptions.

 
I got 3 different degrees and a small certificate from 4 different universities across Europe, in 4 different languages (Belgium, Italy, Hungary, UK). I always needed to work to get money and live so not all people had the opportunity to only concentrate on their studies, they also needed to care about what would there be in the plate the next day.
Fortunately, you have your husband that helps you and offers you the possibility to have all of your time focused on being successful at university. It's great! I hope it will be that way for you for all your studies here, then you can only be more successful. The only thing I ask you is to realize that many people do not have this opportunity, and that in a system like the Belgian one where the rhythm of study is quite strict, it is not that easy.
I underlined those words because you were using those terms to over-generalize a situation (you tend to do that very often) and being offensive. I just replied “people like you?” just to make you realize that the type of generalization you use is negative because it could simply be turned against you since you are not being economically productive right now. Just realize you are lucky that your husband helps you, not all people have that opportunity and so be careful with generalizing social situations and processes, as I said previously, this is a weapon that could quickly been turned against you.

When it comes to assumptions... when I see the tons of stuff you assume to know about Belgium and the people living in here, I guess my contribution remains very modest compared to the one you're gratifying this forum for a while

 Also, the fact to say people like you is a practical thing. I don't write this only as a teasing little remark after your display of rudeness and arrogance, but also I write because you seem to be very practically part of those people entitled to receive that help.
Sorry If I will be a bit assuming things here, but I base my thoughts on the informations you shared on various other threads. It seems then that you and your husband are both living only on his salary, and you mentioned that this salary is an average one (please correct me if this is not true, I have no intention in saying something wrong). So that means that maybe you guys live together with around 1600-1700 euros net per month. Basically, the financial level of similar household would correspond to the level of two people together being unemployed and getting the benefits.
If you go checking the requirements to get social help, you will see that anyone that is the only person getting income in a household of minimum 2 people, and that this income is lower than 22.879,60 Euros per year (that means a net income of around 1875euros per month), is directly entitled to receive that help.

So very practically, aren't you part of those people?? I repeat, my people like you is not just a way to answering you, it is also a real question. Aren't you part of those people that could receive that help?
This si the reason why I felt the way you spoke that negatively about this system is strange, the same way you shared some disdain for the family benefits that increase following the age of the children, ect,...
 

And while you are talking to your fiancee about what it's like to move abroad, don't forget to mention that it's freaking cold in the houses in Belgium. And freaking way too expensive to get warm.

I agree with you. I know people here under-using their heating. It's not personally my case because I hate being in the cold. My mother is always commenting on this when she visits me, how my place is warm. I tend to accept my bills are a bit more expensive because of this choice of mine.
Have you ever talked about this with your husband? If you feel that uncomfortable in the house, it is not good. I also know people in the Netherlands that rarely use heating and they wear several layers of clothes to compensate. Please know I share your opinion about those facts, I don't understand me too how this is possible and don't worry, this is something my girl already asked me because she has friends in the Netherlands But I can assure you I take care of that.

Maybe you had time to learn other languages while studying, doesn't mean all of us do. Were all your degree courses at university given in a third language that you began studying from zero 2 years ago? Like for instance hungarian? I'm sure it wasn't, so your comparing your student times with mine is not very correct.

I don't wanna judge the way your organize your time as it is not my role, but since you are a full-time student, when do you think you'll have time later to learn new languages? It's generally during uni years than we have the most free time, including in a system like the Belgian one.
I worked my ass off to learn those languages, just because I was motivated and I had to. I am still doing it now, during the evenings I listen to Dutch and Russian like crazy. There is no other way. I also listen to languages files on my MP3 whenever I have time, especially when I am in the transports or when I wash the dishes. It's a question of motivation and will. Please don't understand my words as an order, I am just sharing with you how I did to learn, nothing more.

 
Pretty much all my university courses were in languages I learned recently yes. I started the “40 leçons pour parler Italien” in February 2007, first lession “Ciao!”. In September 2007, I was enrolled in University in Florence. I finished this 3 years BA in 2 years. For Hungarian it was the same, I knew Hungarian only for one year before going there. English was better because I learned english during school so my level was way better than this when I decided to go back to study and do an MA in London. But yes, pretty much I know well the situation you mention. I can say that my situation in Italy was even more rushed than yours knowing I only started to learn the language 9 months before my first exam at university there. I don't criticize you, if there is one person that understands the difficulty of what you're doing right now, it's me. The only thing I am telling you is not to believe things can't be achieved. If you put yourself in mindset that you're gonna make it, you'll do it.

 

I have to spend 30 minutes at some exams looking up the meaning of words before i can start writing my answers, where they allow the use of a dictionary. And just use some guesswork where they don't.

 
Yes, I understand what you mean, I had the same. Though in the future you will realize this period will have helped you a lot. However what I disliked was sometimes the behaviour of some teachers who don't want to be more patient with foreigners. Once I had an Italian literature exam in Florence and the teacher started to correct every aspect of my pronunciation in Italian, so that I was interrupted pretty much all 25 seconds
Yeah, I know, that's part of the deal of studying abroad, just don't lose faith, you'll make it and then you'll be even more proud when your diploma will be in your hands.

 

I don't think it's smart to pick up a 4th language course in this situation. And my french pronunciation sucks badly, so i want to focus on that from the get go, instead of starting the course now and learning to pronounce incorrectly because i have no time to practice due to the university being more important. It takes a lot longer to learn to do something well if you learn to do it wrong from the beginning, because of the habits you have to unlearn, than to pay extra attention and practice to do it correctly from the very start.

 
Allright but then don't complain to much that in a country, people use their native language... Your comment makes perfect sense but I'm afraid this has more to do with your personal situation than with the fact Belgium is a terrible multi-lingual society.
If you decide to go to Canada, pay attention to where exactly you decide to go because Quebec has a tendency to defend the integrity of French language way more ferociously than any French-speaking European place. That's one of the reason why we respect and love them so much here. Though I think in Canada you will surely meet more people bilingual French-English than in Belgium, that's for sure, and indeed, this surely can be an advantage for you if you can't manage the situation here.
My only point was not to be offensive with Belgium for what it is and Belgians for what they are, even if I can understand our national particularities can sometimes provoke some difficulties to you.

[Leelou]

So you are saying Belgium can be different. You really didn't need to go all out on the offensive if that was your point.

Right, the only person allowed to be offensive is you. I take good notice Captain.

You could be right, i have not seen all of Belgium. I am writing about my Belgium, the one that surrounds me every day.

No dear you don't
You posts talk about Belgium is an absolute manner, wondering why "people can possibly want and enjoy living here?", how "all the coutry is only a big bunch of crop fields", ect, ect... I am sorry but you're not being honest here. You minimize the style you use to write about this place.
I don't deny your right to write in that way if this is what you feel like, but once you did, just live with the consequences and don't try to pretend something else once it's done.

It is far from civilization and they speak french there!!

Shoud I even bother about replying to this?


 

In Brussels they speak french as well, so that isn't very helpful. I'm sick of being addressed in french every day. I don't understand any of it. But every day every day people come and talk french to me, in shops, on the streets. Really sick of it.

Because it is our country and we assume to be free to speak in our language here. How bad Belgians are to dare to adress you in the official language of this place? I am surprised before coming you didn't noticed we are a Dutch-French-German speaking country, with extra service sin English in Brussels due to the diplomatic importance of the city.

I go to Moscow next month, should I be surprised that people will talk to me in Russian over there?
What is your desire? That the entire Belgium creates specific case for you and start speaking in another language to you when you will proudly show your visa they granted you?

I can understand some of the frustration related to adaptation... but I really wonder what you were expecting when you choose to come here. Like if people would give you a special treatment or so, I don't know... I know Brussels very well, I can tell you most people will be able to answer you in English if you really try to. Not all, but many people do speak English there, just do not close yourself.

 

it makes me feel inferior and stupid for not being able to understand them. I don't like feeling stupid that often.

It is sad that you feel that way and it makes no one happy.
But then why don't you focus on your life in Flanders? If I understood well, you first learned Dutch no?
Why not to go to a Dutch-speaking university, in a Dutch speaking city? This would allow you to focus on only one language and not care too much about the rest... Plus, there are way more job opportunities in the Dutch part, so...

[Leelou]

And Brussels at night is plain unsafe for a woman. Even the very center, whenever i'm shopping on the main shopping street, when it's dark, there are arabic looking people who come up and talk french to me or just yell french at me or just whistle or whatever. And i don't know what the hell they are yelling or saying. I don't feel safe, and i'm not dressed like a hooker.  But then again, by true moslim standards anyone who isn't completely covered is dressed like a hooker. You'll say i'm focusing on the negative, well i just plain don't feel safe in Brussels in the evening, and that is at one of the main streets in the very center, very lighted and crowded. Let alone darker streets. How am i supposed to enjoy Brussels like this, if i don't feel safe walking there in the evening?

I totally agree with you, insecurity is one of the big issues in the capital. You can't imagine how people in Belgium are complaining about it, this even became one of the central issues of all elections during the last years.
Unfortunately, nothing improves. It is very sad.

I do not critize what you say about the muslim population in Brussels because I simply agree. they are damn agressive and integrists. By the way, they first came here because of the social system we first argued about

I know many single women who live in Brussels and face no problem. I think you might indeed focus a bit too much on the negative side. But yes, you are right, some places in Brussels I would simply not like my girl to walk alone there at night. But to be fair, Paris is damn dangerous, London is even more, I nearly got attacked twice while being there when it simply never happened in 20 years in Brussels... However, all of this is another debate.

[Leelou]

I'll just pass your details on to the Ministry - I'm sure they'll pay for the trip! 

I sure would appreciate that 
You know, I will tell you a little story that for me tells everything about how it is such a place with nice and relax people...

When I went to NZ, I needed to take a flight to London from Brussels, and then catch the plane to Auckland.
Unfortunately, there was a huge delay in Brussels and we arrived 2 hours late in Heathrow. I had to run in the terminal to get the plane, they were closing the door of the plane when I arrived, they were nice enough to re-open for me and let me go.
However, my bags were still there and I was wondering if they would follow me to NZ.

When I arrived in Auckland, my luggages were indeed not there. So I went to the lost bags' service and explained the situation. They said to me that was no problem and that it would arrive in the next days. They gave me a full bags with all necessary stuff. However, I was not staying very long in Auckland, only 1 day as I was heading South to Wellington. When I mentioned it, the guys just told me not to worry they be here before it.

I was a bit worried but believed them. Unfortunately, the bags didn't arrived and I took my flight to Wellington.
I was on a bus to Chistchurch when I receive a call saying the bags had arrived, asking where they should send it? I reply that I already left Auckland and that I am in the Southern Island, heading to CC. They just answer "we'll get you everything there".

Hours later, I arrive in my hotel. I go to my room and there a guy is waiting for me in front of the room with my bags.
He simply explains to me they got my bags in a private jet, got them here, and there he took a taxi to hand it to me when I arrive....
I was already so surprised and then when I ask how much I should pay for the whole trip (jet from Auckland to CC, then the taxi from the airport to the hotel), he just says "Well nothing mate. Just the service. Sweet as"

 

I still can't believe it. It's like someone shipping my stuff from Oslo to Madrid for free. NZ people rock.

[Faux Pas]

Shoud I even bother about replying to this?

Truthfully, no you shouldn't. She sees one Belgium and you see another. You both come from different walks of life and both have different likes/wants/needs. Someone doesn't much care for the place you love, it's as simple as that. You'll never convince her of the Belgium you see. Give it a rest.

[Leelou]

Truthfully, no you shouldn't. She sees one Belgium and you see another. You both come from different walks of life and both have different likes/wants/needs. Someone doesn't much care for the place you love, it's as simple as that. You'll never convince her of the Belgium you see. Give it a rest.

Yeah I think you're right.
Though I must say I'm very sorry for her she doesn't feel good here... Anyway.

[Anotherkiwi]

...I still can't believe it. It's like someone shipping my stuff from Oslo to Madrid for free. NZ people rock.

    Glad you had such a positive experience...luckily luggage is something I've NEVER had go missing in my travels (fingers crossed, touch wood, blah, blah...).

[Aloe]

 
Very few people on this forum know each other in real life. Actually it's even the case on most forums, whatever the subject is. I am just replying to what you write, the same way you feel free to reply to what I write. We all assume things from what each user decide to share here, that's pretty how it works when it comes to Forum writing. If you dislike that people you don't know in real life react about what you write, I guess the Internet will often annoys you very much.

 
 
I am not new It's been more than one year than I read here, but I post very rarely. Seems like your literature pushed me to post more than I have time to do so

 
 
I am not that sure of that

 
 
See above.

 
 
Well as I said, you're free to do whatever you want here, the same way I'm free to say what I want about what you write It's good if you have the intelligence not to speak to people in real life the same way you do here, and because I'm quite a nice guy, I will simply believe what you say


 
 
I think the style you use about the place you live in is generally impolite.
A lot of things you say about Belgium here are offensive, you may remember that some people are born in this place you enjoy to trash so much. That they connect on this Forum often or not doesn't really matter. When you decide to write in such way, you know that you take the risk to hurt the feelings of some people who have a significant part of their life related to this country.
I don't deny you the right to write in that way if this is what you want. There is no Lubyanka for Internet users in Belgium. However, just take your responsibilities when you write something. When people are impolite they usually don't see anything wrong in what they say, that's the reason why other people generally have to refer it to them (I am a human being so it applies to me too sometimes )


 
Well you throw out at me that I was a dwarf that could be not sensitive to the problems of my girl if ever she had to experience a similar frustration to yours. If you feel free to write such things to people, don't be surprised they allow themselves to write you back something. I know us people born in French culture were quite pushed to be overly gentlemanly with Ladies, but things always stop at some point.

 
This is the Internet, you can decide to react to anything. I disliked what you wrote often here, I decided to react. Thank you to letting me having the choice of what I want to do. Similarly, if you don't like my posts, then don't read it, if this your golden rule.


 
You assuming that people in that service must be such lazy non-working people was impolite in the first place. But right, you religiously say you're not being impolite. Maybe you're just arrogant then.
You have a husband that pays for all your bills, bless you. I am happy this is that way for you, so that you don't have to be part of those people who need to ask for public assistance. Just stop being silly when you write about social programs like this, even if you are right that they need serious reforms, they still bring value to the life of many people in need. Just stop being an hypocrite here.

 
 
I got 3 different degrees and a small certificate from 4 different universities across Europe, in 4 different languages (Belgium, Italy, Hungary, UK). I always needed to work to get money and live so not all people had the opportunity to only concentrate on their studies, they also needed to care about what would there be in the plate the next day.
Fortunately, you have your husband that helps you and offers you the possibility to have all of your time focused on being successful at university. It's great! I hope it will be that way for you for all your studies here, then you can only be more successful. The only thing I ask you is to realize that many people do not have this opportunity, and that in a system like the Belgian one where the rhythm of study is quite strict, it is not that easy.
I underlined those words because you were using those terms to over-generalize a situation (you tend to do that very often) and being offensive. I just replied “people like you?” just to make you realize that the type of generalization you use is negative because it could simply be turned against you since you are not being economically productive right now. Just realize you are lucky that your husband helps you, not all people have that opportunity and so be careful with generalizing social situations and processes, as I said previously, this is a weapon that could quickly been turned against you.

When it comes to assumptions... when I see the tons of stuff you assume to know about Belgium and the people living in here, I guess my contribution remains very modest compared to the one you're gratifying this forum for a while

 Also, the fact to say people like you is a practical thing. I don't write this only as a teasing little remark after your display of rudeness and arrogance, but also I write because you seem to be very practically part of those people entitled to receive that help.
Sorry If I will be a bit assuming things here, but I base my thoughts on the informations you shared on various other threads. It seems then that you and your husband are both living only on his salary, and you mentioned that this salary is an average one (please correct me if this is not true, I have no intention in saying something wrong). So that means that maybe you guys live together with around 1600-1700 euros net per month. Basically, the financial level of similar household would correspond to the level of two people together being unemployed and getting the benefits.
If you go checking the requirements to get social help, you will see that anyone that is the only person getting income in a household of minimum 2 people, and that this income is lower than 22.879,60 Euros per year (that means a net income of around 1875euros per month), is directly entitled to receive that help.

So very practically, aren't you part of those people?? I repeat, my people like you is not just a way to answering you, it is also a real question. Aren't you part of those people that could receive that help?
This si the reason why I felt the way you spoke that negatively about this system is strange, the same way you shared some disdain for the family benefits that increase following the age of the children, ect,...
 



I agree with you. I know people here under-using their heating. It's not personally my case because I hate being in the cold. My mother is always commenting on this when she visits me, how my place is warm. I tend to accept my bills are a bit more expensive because of this choice of mine.
Have you ever talked about this with your husband? If you feel that uncomfortable in the house, it is not good. I also know people in the Netherlands that rarely use heating and they wear several layers of clothes to compensate. Please know I share your opinion about those facts, I don't understand me too how this is possible and don't worry, this is something my girl already asked me because she has friends in the Netherlands But I can assure you I take care of that.


I don't wanna judge the way your organize your time as it is not my role, but since you are a full-time student, when do you think you'll have time later to learn new languages? It's generally during uni years than we have the most free time, including in a system like the Belgian one.
I worked my ass off to learn those languages, just because I was motivated and I had to. I am still doing it now, during the evenings I listen to Dutch and Russian like crazy. There is no other way. I also listen to languages files on my MP3 whenever I have time, especially when I am in the transports or when I wash the dishes. It's a question of motivation and will. Please don't understand my words as an order, I am just sharing with you how I did to learn, nothing more.

 
Pretty much all my university courses were in languages I learned recently yes. I started the “40 leçons pour parler Italien” in February 2007, first lession “Ciao!”. In September 2007, I was enrolled in University in Florence. I finished this 3 years BA in 2 years. For Hungarian it was the same, I knew Hungarian only for one year before going there. English was better because I learned english during school so my level was way better than this when I decided to go back to study and do an MA in London. But yes, pretty much I know well the situation you mention. I can say that my situation in Italy was even more rushed than yours knowing I only started to learn the language 9 months before my first exam at university there. I don't criticize you, if there is one person that understands the difficulty of what you're doing right now, it's me. The only thing I am telling you is not to believe things can't be achieved. If you put yourself in mindset that you're gonna make it, you'll do it.

 
 
Yes, I understand what you mean, I had the same. Though in the future you will realize this period will have helped you a lot. However what I disliked was sometimes the behaviour of some teachers who don't want to be more patient with foreigners. Once I had an Italian literature exam in Florence and the teacher started to correct every aspect of my pronunciation in Italian, so that I was interrupted pretty much all 25 seconds
Yeah, I know, that's part of the deal of studying abroad, just don't lose faith, you'll make it and then you'll be even more proud when your diploma will be in your hands.

 
 
Allright but then don't complain to much that in a country, people use their native language... Your comment makes perfect sense but I'm afraid this has more to do with your personal situation than with the fact Belgium is a terrible multi-lingual society.
If you decide to go to Canada, pay attention to where exactly you decide to go because Quebec has a tendency to defend the integrity of French language way more ferociously than any French-speaking European place. That's one of the reason why we respect and love them so much here. Though I think in Canada you will surely meet more people bilingual French-English than in Belgium, that's for sure, and indeed, this surely can be an advantage for you if you can't manage the situation here.
My only point was not to be offensive with Belgium for what it is and Belgians for what they are, even if I can understand our national particularities can sometimes provoke some difficulties to you.

Leelou, i have not said a single bad word about Belgians, where do you see me complain about belgians? I suppose the arabic looking people could be naturalized belgians, but that's it. Also i critisized the long time welfare people, that's pretty much all i said about any people. Where are you getting it that im trashing belgians? You are seeing things that aren't there.
I don't complain about people speaking french to each other, they can do whatever they want. What i said is i'm sick of them speaking french to me personally. You understand? I just wanna be left alone and not spoken in french to because i don't understand it. And i speak dutch, same as half of belgian population. So don't act like im expecting ANYTHING, let alone that im expecting that they speak non-national languages to me. Dutch is roughly half of the population and a national language as well. And i'm not expecting anything anyway. I was expressing my own personal feeling of being fed up with being addressed in french personally. Where do you see anything me saying they cant speak french? Why are you denying me the right of experiencing my own personal feelings? Again, i NEVER expressed displeasal with the french as a language spoken by people to each other, i expressed my own feelings when it comes to french spoken to me personally. So don't put words in my mouth.

And dont tell me where to study. One, i AM studying at a dutch language university located in Brussels. Two, they have this specific degree i wanted only in antwerpen and in brussels. They don't have it in Leuven, or i would have gone there. Antwerpen is way farther away than brussels.


Also where are you getting that i'm not thankful to my husband for supporting me through university?

Also i'm not gonna go and stand in line for pity money. In my post i did say there are people who do need it and have no other choice, but who i'm against is people who take advantage of the system, but you conveniently twisted that and decided to accuse me of being against all social help receivers. 

Congratulations, you are the first person in my 4 years on this forum who made me feel unwelcome here and feel sorry for sharing so much about myself. Without exaggerration. Before you came around, i only got positive feelings, support and new ideas and perspectives to think about from my topics. Thanks for ruining it. But i get it, this is the internet... it was bound to happen sooner or later. You did give me a lot to think about, thanks for that, but the overwhelming negativity and untrue accusations with which it came coupled just ruined this forum for me.

[Leelou]

Leelou, i have not said a single bad word about Belgians, where do you see me complain about belgians? I suppose the arabic looking people could be naturalized belgians, but that's it. Also i critisized the long time welfare people, that's pretty much all i said about any people. Where are you getting it that im trashing belgians? You are seeing things that aren't there.
I don't complain about people speaking french to each other, they can do whatever they want. What i said is i'm sick of them speaking french to me personally. You understand? I just wanna be left alone and not spoken in french to because i don't understand it. And i speak dutch, same as half of belgian population. So don't act like im expecting ANYTHING, let alone that im expecting that they speak non-national languages to me. Dutch is roughly half of the population and a national language as well. And i'm not expecting anything anyway. I was expressing my own personal feeling of being fed up with being addressed in french personally. Where do you see anything me saying they cant speak french? Why are you denying me the right of experiencing my own personal feelings? Again, i NEVER expressed displeasal with the french as a language spoken by people to each other, i expressed my own feelings when it comes to french spoken to me personally. So don't put words in my mouth.

And dont tell me where to study. One, i AM studying at a dutch language university located in Brussels. Two, they have this specific degree i wanted only in antwerpen and in brussels. They don't have it in Leuven, or i would have gone there. Antwerpen is way farther away than brussels.


Also where are you getting that i'm not thankful to my husband for supporting me through university?

Also i'm not gonna go and stand in line for pity money. In my post i did say there are people who do need it and have no other choice, but who i'm against is people who take advantage of the system, but you conveniently twisted that and decided to accuse me of being against all social help receivers. 

Congratulations, you are the first person in my 4 years on this forum who made me feel unwelcome here and feel sorry for sharing so much about myself. Without exaggerration. Before you came around, i only got positive feelings, support and new ideas and perspectives to think about from my topics. Thanks for ruining it. But i get it, this is the internet... it was bound to happen sooner or later. You did give me a lot to think about, thanks for that, but the overwhelming negativity and untrue accusations with which it came coupled just ruined this forum for me.

Aloe,

I think we're just not understanding each other. Plain simple.
You read stuff in my posts that I don't mean to, and it seems it is the same for me about you. So we call each other the same name, it's 50-50, let's accept it.

As I mentioned in many of my previous posts, I didn't criticized you as a person (I do not know you personally), I criticized the style you used to express your opinion about Belgium. As I said, I do not deny you your right to say what you want on the Internet, including negative remarks and comments. The only thing I tried to tell you, and sometimes I totally recognize I might have been a bit strong on some of my replies but it was only with the intention to shake you up a bit, is that you only thought about your own sensitivity, and you didn't mind about the one of others. I truly believe you could have expressed your frustration about being here in a more decent manner.

Concerning you feeling bad about my replies and about now being on this forum... I can only accept what you say and take notice of it. But please also for once realize what I felt me when I connect here and that I see a particular user saying very negative stuff about my native place, very often in an totally unrealistic and irrational way (sometimes however some good questions here and there).
You accuse me of being overly negative, I accuse you the same... so our conversation leads to nowhere.

All in all, this is the reason why I am not gonna reply to your last arguments and I will simply follow the advice of other users saying to give it a rest. I simply don't want us to finish in a very unuseful argumentation falling every day deeper and deeper into ad personam.

I wish only that while you read my posts, you also read well that I wish for you to find a way. To find a way to improve your situation and leave this frustration behind. I mentioned it several times. And if all of this leads you to name your solution "Canada"... well then let it be, it is your life, I only wish you good luck in it. But I hope along this way you will also open a more positive look on Belgium.

Best!

[TheTraveler]

Hi!
I first wrote an extensive reply to your post, but unfortunately it crashed and I lost all of my writing, so I hope I will back here most of what I wanted to say.
First, I am happy that you finally decided to answer with some valuable arguments. Very different from the silly stuff you offered us in your last posts. Second, I am also happy you finally decided to react, since without your contribution there can only be speculation about what provokes your current frustration of living in Belgium.


 
Indeed, because there is no way to compare countries such as Russia and Canada that are geographically and culturally Winter countries to a place like Belgium that is a normal Western temperate country where winters are not too cold, and summers are not too hot (which is also seen by many people as an advantage, but I will admit I don't agree with them).
However, what I think is well laughable is moving to another country and expecting to find the same kind of conditions you experienced while being home, and when this doesn't happen, to complain about it. If you had done just a bit of homework before coming here, you would have found out that winter conditions in Belgium are very different to the ones you got in Russia.
I was in Moscow last summer and everyone was complaining about the hot summer. You know, for me those temperatures were quite fine, since I experienced more than 42° every year while being in Italy. Reactions of Russians were quite laughable. That doesn't change the fact I didn't started barking at the moon that Russia has no decent summer time.

 
 
You definitely belgianized yourself a bit if you think 30min of car is a long drive. Where is your Russian perception of distances gone to?

 
 
They barely have heavy snow equipment because it's simply not a usual situation in this country. Belgium is no exception, all Western Europe is like this and this why we often experience transport problems once Winter has arrived. Situation in the UK last year was particularly difficult, and yet for a Russian the amount of snow was surely modest.
Every country has its own particularities and services adapted to the kind of situations it is mostly used to deal with. Not so long ago, because of warm temperature, there were significant fires in Russia that caused severe damages. Even people in Moscow found it difficult to go outside because of the air. And what could that mean? Russia has specificities due to its climate and its normal that services there are less prepared when it comes to deal with problems related to hot weather.
Now, when it comes to it, I agree they should do something, because now in Western Europe (and that includes many other countries than Belgium) we get the same Winter problems every year and they should learn from it, getting experience form the countries that face strong Winters every year, to develop better strategies to deal with the cold.

 
And your remark surprises me. Because I am a Belgian born and raised, and I am currently in this awful and unvaluable Belgium as I am writing to you, and I do not experience what you say. This is the reason why I will ask you again the same question I already asked, where do you live exactly in Belgium? Don't worry, I don't want your precise adress, but your region, your city?
You see, you might very well live in a very populated region of Flanders, and Flanders is already very much populated. But though Belgium remains a small country, this is not the same everywhere you go. I always experienced space here, as there is more space in the country as you're going south.
Have you ever been to the Ardennes?
I have friends living there, and they choose to be there because they live in the nature, their houses are located in forests, they enjoy the nature feel you're talking about. Very well, it might not reach the standards you're talking about, but saying all Belgium looks and feels like what you're describing is I think an exageration from you.

 
I never experienced such thing during my childhood here. We have forests and we used to go there often with school, those are strong memories for me. And you see, after I finished writing to you, I will go walk my dog in the forest closeby, not a garden, not a park... a normal forest. Sure, I will surely not meet some fantastic Canadian grizzlies during this walk, but it's still nature. Before condamning the country in its whole as you're currently doing, why not first questioning the precise region where you're living? I can assure life is not necessarily the same in every part of Belgium.
You could also realize that your children won't have anything programmed in their genetics that will allow them only to have fun the way you did in your childhood. Like another user said to you, kids have fun everywhere with anything, unless the country they live in is called Ethiopia or Afghanistan.
We are all born somewhere and we had fun with what we had. You are Russian and you had fun the Russian way. Some guys here are Canadians and they had fun their way. I am Belgian and I had fun during my childhood. Your kids will simply grow up in their reality, not in the one you grew up in when you were a child. They surely would love many things anywhere you decide to raise them.
Recently we celebrated Saint-Nicolas in Russia with the family of my girl, she said to me it was one of the most enjoyable child-stuff she ever experienced. And Saint-Nicolas is really a BeNeLux thing, with all the games that it involves. There are also so many great things for kids in Belgium.
One of my friends is married and has a little girl in Mexico. Never does he complain about the fact his daughter doesn't experience a childhood the belgian way. She just grow up there and has fun the Mexican way, with what Mexico can give her. They are happy, they are not terrified at the idea that unlike in Belgium, they can't drive great carbikes and run in the sandmountains on the sea side... His daughter enjoys another type of childhood than his own... he is happy, she is happy, there is no need for him to force his daughter to live her child years the exact same way he did.
And you see, even if in the case you decide to stay in Belgium and that sadly your child grows up unhappy in Belgium... I would not first look at the inner characteristics of Belgium... I would surely more look towards the behaviour of the mother that would constantly speak negatively of the place where they are living in, developing in this kid a certain disdain for the place he is born in.
I hear birds every morning and I feed them myself I am sorry but I really need to know where you're living so that I can know I must not go to that place
No, what is childish is like I explained previously, not doing some homework about the place where you decided to go living in and then complained that it doesn't feel right like home.
In a bit I go to live for a few months with my fiancée in Moscow, how stupid would that be from me to expect there to enjoy the same kind of summer I enjoyed while being in Italy? How silly would that be to complain about such kind of things. I highly prefer to concentrate on what Russia and Moscow have new to offer me. Enjoyable, particular things and learn how to see and appreciate the beauty of it. Not complaining all the time about the fact Russia doesn't feel and doesn't give the same things as home.
I do not criticize the fact you came here to join your husband. I actually respect. And I do also because I did the same already in my life. I went to Italy mainly for a relationship that unfortunately didn't work out in the long run. Though I finally didn't enjoy the experience of living permanently in Italy (mainly due to professional problems), it would have never come to my mind to connect on a Forum to bash everything Italian, using a majority of silly arguments, just to express some latent frustration of not being happy there.What is funny is how you accept your own rudeness and treat it as a virtue. And even worst, you hypocritically hide your lack of respect behind the unfixed meaning of some of your words. Fact is that you don't connect here sharing your thoughts about this country in a correct way, you just trash everything in sight without exception. Not just once, but often.
If you feel my sayings as a “GTFO”, then I suppose me, and possibly other Belgian citizens who love their country, feels your posts like “this country is a big pile full of shit”. You definitely are way more impolite then you think, and even if I totally assume my words and that I surely personally have some things to work on concerning my style of writing, you might also realise I took some time to debate with you... while other users ignored your words and simply called you a “pain in the ass”.

 Darling,
When I went abroad, I always went with the idea I could stay there forever. I always had to work to get my own money and make a living. This is a significant difference with people who immigrate to be with a husband/wife that pays for all of their bills.
And please know that I lived in places like the XIII district in Budapest, where people experience a level of life very similar to the one of poor Russian families “Dostoevsky style”. And I can tell you that it is way more difficult to adapt in a place where the only language to communicate is Hungarian, at the difference of places like Brussels where nearly everything is available in English.If your mindset was really, “old life is done and gone forever”, then you would not have so many difficulties to adapt
However, I do agree that such mentality would be damaging and no, old life is never gone forever. Because it is in it that you get your experiences. But getting them to annihilate your capacity to move towards something new is a problem.I am currently spending a significant amount of time to explain to her what is to move to another country and how it feels like. I of course speak by experience but I encourage her to talk with some of her friends that already did it.
I also encourage her to get inspire by people who emigrated here successfully, people who have positive energy and ideas to share with her. To give her confidence. That also includes some foreign friends of mine that are now in Belgium and managed to build good things here. I can mention a dear Hungarian friend who just wrote me an email yesterday saying she's just been offered her dream-job in the fashion industry in Brussels, how she blesses the day she decided to move here and how she feels never such could have happened in the place she was before.
I also spoke about your posts. Just to tell her what kind of people she will need to avoid once being here. People that are constantly casting bad energy and negativity. People who spend hours to paint their world and the world around them in black.
I am also telling her that I know very well that at some point she will feel the nostalgia, there will be moments more difficult. I doubt she will really miss Moscow, as a significant part of her happy thoughts lay in Ossetia, very sadly destroyed by war during the last years. But most of all, I know she will miss the presence of her mother and sister, that she never left. But I will also tell her that with good energy, will and love around her (that might be one of your problems here), there is no reason for her not to become successful here since what is also available in this country. I am already always available to listen to her feelings, and will always be... but I hope that when she will need to complain, it will be not in such a childish-whiny-bitchy little manner as you do. No offence to little childish whining bitches here.

Great news for you, there are nuclear reactors in North America too. Seems like the risk is potentially the same. Russia has one of the lowest life expectancy rates in Europe, if not in the world. Never saw such masses of people dying in their 50/60s before I came to Russia. And talking about North America including Canada, those guys live in general 6 years less than the average European. Maybe it's because of the crappy food they are eating all day.
Isn't that silly? I agree. You see, such meaningless comments can be written about any place. What I mean by this is that you should relax... You are in Western Europe and though it is surely not paradise here, there is no more threat to your health being here than in other places.
You might not live in the same kind of reality than most of the people here, but once you will grow up you will realize that for most families 80euros per month for every child (knowing there is a percentage of increase for every birth) is something that no one refuses neither neglects. I am even more surprised by your writing since on this Forum you often complained about the fact you feel there is not enough money in your marriage right now to allow you the level of life you desire. Strange then that you start spitting on the money the State is ready to give you in case you become a mother.
Needless to say that I am also very surprised by how you're trying to find a place where it is possible to enjoy a comfortable level of life, to raise a family and having only one salary. In 2012, in developed Western economies, such situation doesn't exist anymore. I won't go to the point of saying that you're waiting for things to be given to you on a silver plate, but the question might come at some point.
The welfare system is so good that a child can stay covered by the social security system of his parents until the 25^th birthday, even if he is unemployed. By the way, the fact that our system is so generous is exactly the reason why Belgium has one of the highest rate in family immigration in Europe. People have no problem at using the family-reunion law to come over here with all their parents and children and get the benefits of the social system since foreigners are also entitled to have it here even if they never worked here and never participated to the system.
It's not uncommon, actually the French are even more generous and this is why they are the country in Europe with the highest rate of family immigration. I do not criticize it, I do not criticize the people doing so, I am just stating the situation here.

 Great, here is one thing that we agree about!!!
Indeed, this system is great but it costs us a lot of money, too much money. If you wanna know, at the last election I didn't support the actual government and though I think Elio Di Rupo is a very nice man, I think his policies will make the situation even more difficult in the long run.
I totally agree the level of taxes in Belgium is tremendous. But you see, as an independent and soon opening a new business, I am the first one to criticize the fact small business owners are suffocated by taxes. And I will say to you that if there is really something to criticize strongly in Belgium, it is the fact that it is a society where culturally any kind of entrepreneurial spirit is very small.
However, I would like also to mention the fact (and you know it since you seem to be following the news) that we're right now in one of the most terrifying economic crisis in modern history. Is there any country where right now there is no bad cuts in the states' spendings? Haven't the Britons fought the police in the streets of London very recently about cuts in education? Haven't the French strongly protested against the Pension system's reforms? And Canada, how are they doing over there? Is by any chance and magic/divine intervention Canada the only country where the crisis doesn't have an impact on social welfare and the life of people?

 Possible. In North America they are quite good and there is no way here to deny that fact. At least the education system seems to be way more honest than the one found in the US.
By the way, I also have a significant part of my family that is Canadian. They were born and raised in Edmonton. Now that they came back, they never tell anything special about the difference of level of life between Canada and Belgium, they tell me they pretty much can afford the same thing with their salary than when they were over there.Maybe its helpful for people like you?
You mentioned often that there is not enough money at home right now to allow you to have the level of life you want, and on another thread you also mentioned that you think not being able to get a job before the next 4 years.
Personally I do think it is good that at least there is a possibility for people in need to enjoy things that gives them a better life. It might not be perfect, and I sure want it to be reformed, but fact is that in many countries around the globe (including the one where you're born) many people would appreciate the fact such program exists.
And honestly, even if you're trashing our country in such a silly manner, I am still happy this opportunity is also open to you if really in the future you need something better.Great, here a second thing we agree about.
Yes, I totally agree with you, there are a lot of people using the system in Belgium. It is even more the case when it comes to unemployment benefits for life.
I can even give you a proper example, the one of the father of Romelu Lukaku, the famous Belgian football player. While still he and his brother are professional football players (and Romelu plays in Chelsea with the great salary that comes with it), his family got a social house. Simply because the wages of those two sons were not included in the application file.
I think it is a scandal when you see the amount of money those sportmen do... But still, even if we agree that this system must be strongly reformed... does that mean it is totally unuseful and that we should send it to the trashbin?Healthcare is free if you go directly to the hospital. It is not uncommon, it's pretty much the case in many European countries. I've been unemployed during 2 months in the UK and I went to the hospital for cares. Never had to pay anything. It is the same in Belgium.
However you are right, someone pays the bill in the end and we do it with taxes. But you see, healthcare remains free for people like you... because it is paid by people like your husband and me, people that do work and do pay those taxes
You already are a polyglot. Your English is excellent, way better than mine and it is even more amazing because your native language is Russian and that you had to make more efforts to reach that level than me.
Listen, one of my passion is languages. I speak fluently French, English, Dutch and Italian. I also have a good level in Hungarian and I start to express myself in Russian. I am not expecting people to share this passion, and I am absolutely not showing myself in example, but I can also honestly tell you that, knowing several languages and with years of experience in teaching French to foreigners from different ages and backgrounds... good will is the main thing.
I learned English and Italian while being a student in Belgium, experiencing the same education system as you're in right now, with the blocuses, ect...
Knowing that French shares 60-65% of its content with English, there is no reason why you could not reach a very advanced level in French quickly and easily. Especially when I see how you master English.I think you have a lot of pinky ideas about the food industry in the world, including Canada.And so Belgium is. We have the city in the world, Brussels, where the most languages are spoken. There is no way to compare here Canada with Belgium on this as I truly believe that in terms of immigration, those countries are pretty much the same.Exactly. And this is when people are talking in such an absolute manner that generally problems arise. You said it yourself, you never been to Canada and unfortunately you described something that happens very often with people having severe mood swings... I just saw something on TV....
All in all, I am not here to fight you.
I don't care if you don't like here. I just feel sympathy for your case because I lived a long time abroad and I know what it feels to adapt to a new place. I wish you could find it easier. I have no advices to give to you, you would not listen anyway.... But I can only join the other users that replied to you, saying your posts and threads are full of other things, and that this might be more the source of your actual frustration.
And do not forget this famous sentence in French that I will try to translate to English for you...
“All around the world, an unhappy person always takes its own sadness in his luggages”.
Cheers, peace, and good luck!

That's the most fight we've seen out of Belgium in 100 years.