The stigma of a Mail Order Bride

[Rvrwind]

Mathew...if those are the facts, then I too would have to agree, but that is not the way it was related to the General Public. Although the amount was way out of line.

The latest one I heard about is Bombadier being sued for 48mil because a woman riding one of their snowmobils stood up on the machine & got clobbered by a low bridge. They lost because they didn't have a sticker on the machine warning you not to stand up while riding. I don't know about you but seems like a no brainer to me. Of course Bombardier is appealing but with the Western court system I don't hold out too much hope for them.

These people would really be impressed with Russia & Russian Law. They don't shovel sidewalks here or do much of anything, when someone gets hurt their attitude is it your problem. Filing suit here is a waste of time.

RVR-Canadian Cowboy/Agency Owner

[ConnerVT]

These people would really be impressed with Russia & Russian Law. They don't shovel sidewalks here or do much of anything, when someone gets hurt their attitude is it your problem. Filing suit here is a waste of time.

That's because they realize you can't get blood from a stone. No insurance, no deep pockets.

To get back on topic -- Rvr, how does your wife handle the stigma of being married to a "Mail Order Husband"? 

[catzenmouse]

To get back on topic -- Rvr, how does your wife handle the stigma of being married to a "Mail Order Husband"? 

Poor Rvr! Always getting oogled by those Russian Hotties... his wife dealing with the jealousy of those women and the bitterness of the Russian men.

Ken

[LatinSwede]

I've already been given the song and dance about "she's using you for the visa!".  It's like I'm repeating my father's history in a way.  My mother came from another country, and she didn't speak much English.  When they were courting, my dad had to talk to her in Spanish.  Now 34 years later they are still together, and my mother is college educated with a degree. All of her higher learning was conducted in English!  What can condescending AW's do in another country? "Oh excuse me! Do you speak English?  I was too dense to even bother learning anything before I got here." As a kid I got wind of some of the most vicious gossip about my mother from the silly loudmouth WASP cows.  It was things like how my mother just married to get out of the coutry.  Or that she was an immoral bar girl that luckily latched on to a GI (because my dad was in the army) for a ticket out.  By the way, my mother comes from a very well respected, educated, and well cultured family in Panama.  As a kid I'd get into fights at school and on the playground.  The other kids were saying very biggoted things about me and my mother.  Fast forward to today, I'm also in a relationship (by a lucky accident) with a respectable Ukranian lady.  Her English is still very poor, and we communicate mostly in Russian.  I can sense the anger and jealousy in the air when AW's get told I'm marrying an E.Euro.  They find it unbelievable I really don't want any of them. When she gets here, I know they'll really hate me.:cool:  Anyway, I think my parents are a perfect example in handling a cross cultural relationship.  As a joke sometimes I'd call myself an Icy/Hot because my dad's culture is from the far north of Europe, and my mon's side is in tropical Panama.  What ever verbal ammo and artillery jealous contemptuous soccermoms may have to throw, I'm already immune to it.

Here's a comeback I've come up with.  If somebody tell me "oh she's just using you for your passport and visa.  As soon as she gets her green card, she'll leave you"  My response will be "Well if that does happen, I'll be really heartbroken.  It's still better than being stuck with an obese loudmouth redneck hog".  The of issue looking overseas, because we can't get women over here is just propaganda.  The fact is I look overseas because I don't want the women from the USA at all.  For some odd reason, I seem to be an object of desire to the trailer park females.  It's funny when they call me stuck up, or go on about how I think I'm better than them.

[al-c]

I recently got word that the ladies in my circle of friends are saying that there is something wrong with me for looking in Russia for my wife.  They say that there are hoardes of Americans women looking for a guy like me, so why would I "lower" myself to look in Russia.

I found this out from one of the ladies I am close to and with whom I have developed a high level of trust.  She tells me what is going on behind my back.  She is the only person in my circle of friends who knows about my relationship with Olga because she is the only one I trust with that knowledge (other than 2 people from Europe I know on the internet).

The guys have no problem with it.  They think it is great that I am going to this length to improve my life.

Am I off base in assuming that the ladies are just jealous because they can't rise to the quality level of Russian women, past the petty prejudices and shallow interests that plague the female U.S. population?

 

[Muj]

al-c,

I find many people and women included will talk of anything different.  My feeling is that people open minded to a broader base of selection, international vs local, find their better mate. 

[Rvrwind]

[user=140]ConnerVT[/user][user=140] wrote:

To get back on topic -- Rvr, how does your wife handle the stigma of being married to a "Mail Order Husband"? 

Poor Rvr! Always getting oogled by those Russian Hotties... his wife dealing with the jealousy of those women and the bitterness of the Russian men.

Ken

[/color][/u][/user]Actually she handles it quite well!!!!

Not only do I get oogled by hotties I even get them trying to pick me up, even when I'm with her. She takes it all in good humor & knows I love her and ain't going anywhere. She even points the lookers out to me sometimes. Valya is deffinitely not the jealous type.

You know its kinda funny that the western culture thinks of these ladies as MOB's whereas the culture here thinks that I am either very brave or crazy to have moved to their country, but nobody has ever referred to me as a MOH. All our friends think its pretty cool that I had the courage & fortitude to not only move here & leave everything I had but to also be able to find gainfull employment making way more money than most of them when I can barely speak the language. They are getting used to it now & I am not even remotely considered an outsider anymore, I'm just one of the gang.

RVR-Canadian Cowboy/Agency Owner

[Jet]

[user=527]al-c[/user] wrote:

Am I off base in assuming that the ladies are just jealous because they can't rise to the quality level of Russian women, past the petty prejudices and shallow interests that plague the female U.S. population?

 

I don't know that it's a "quality level" issue. It's a matter of envy. Because they know you've given up on them and their BS, suddenly they want you. If you walked into the office on Monday and announced  that you'd given up your search abroad and decided to find a lady closer to home, they'd be tripping each other running away from you. In my experience, often times american chicks want what they can't have. If they find out they can have it - they don't want it anymore. This is, by the way, is fundimentally different (in my limited experience) from Eastern European women.

[Voyageur]

Hopefully this is on-topic - why does it seem that the social pressures on a Mail Order Bride in America are so difficult?  Especially the pressure from AW - and why are they this way?  I can only surmise that they are really threatened and do not want to see any woman happy in a more traditional husband and wife role.

Yesterday, my wife went to a "International Women's Day" party (Women only) held by a RW (who has been in America for a number of years).  It was really the first time she wanted to go anywhere without me, and this was no problem for me of course. One of her American girlfriends drove her there.

When she came back, she told me about the party, what the topic of discussion was primarily - about sex. She said that the American women were very graphic about sex and the males' "equipment" and everyone sat around the kitchen table and was supposed to tell a story about a wild time they had.  My wife told me that the general consensus was that men are *ssholes and that they should be used like a tangerine - suck them dry and then find a new, younger man.  Their words exactly.

All the American women could do , was to talk to her about the difference in ages between her and me, (18 years), about how she should look around to see what was out there, how she should not cook every day, how she will find out what a "big world" there is when she eventually get a job of her own (she wants to stay home and raise her daughter now). 

Anyway, I am sure that she is happy in her new life (believe me, I know very quickly when she is not,:P), but I just wonder why other women have such a nasty character about a situation like ours. I never really had anything against American women before, but now, I never see or hear anything positive from them when it comes to our marriage. Every AW seems to want to stop my wife from cooking each day (which she enjoys) and to start to "have her own life" - meaning go out with the girls more.  And they are curious about me, expecting the worst and saying negative things about our situation.

I really do not mind this. I know that there is nothing to worry about because our realtionship is quite strong, but I am somewhat concerned about all of this negative pressure from seemingly the majority of American women.  Maybe this AW attitude will start to chip away at what has been built by the two of us???

It is not fair to say anything negative about her going to lunch or meeting with other women - I can certainly understand the need for women to talk amongst themselves. But I really was not ready for the nastiness involved when AW find out about the "MOB" aspect of our relationship.  I wonder if others amrried to FSU women have also experienced this and how they dealt with this type of situation.

P. S.  I asked my wife if she ever had heard such questions and comments at a "women's" party when she lived in Russia and she said "never"...another proud first in her life in America :huh:.

[Albert]

[user=250]Voyageur[/user], I have read many times on these forums about get togethers of RW where the topics and attitudes toward men are almost identical to those you attributed to the AW (except for parts about MOB).

Why does this fantasy world continue re RW on pedestals?  Women are women the world over.

[Daknack]

Voyager this is the best advice I can give you in relation to your wife.  Actually this is good advice for EVERYONE.  Watch your wive's friends VERY closely.  Other than a husband (and sometimes more than a husband) it is them they turn too for advice.  I have learned this lesson the hard way.  There are people that are poison to a relationship.  They give evil advice, while posing as the husbands friend.  Do everything in your power to discourage your wife from these friends because iot WILL bite you in time.  If you hear "your husband is a weasel every day" you eventually come to see him that way.  When a snake like this enters your home you crush its head and kill it (figurativly of course).  When your wife finds a good friend of course, encourage it as much as possible.  In all honesty the women you detail, should be forbidden from coming in your home.  Were your friends to insult your wife constantly, doubtless you would not stay friends with them long (beyond the typical male joke of ball and chain and stuff that no one takes seriously).  Women do not value loyalty the way men do always remember this.  Thats why women are more forgiving of adultery where men are far less.  Always remember the basic nature of a woman and never every make the mistake of thinking your woman is somehow "above" such pettyness.  Even if she is not now, enough spoken poison and she could be.

[BC]

Voyager,

As long as she is talking to you about her experiences and thoughts no need to worry.

It's the:

"How was the party darling?"
"Oh ho hum.. nothing interestingl"

that you should worry about.

If my wife were to get into one of these womens groups and if that was enough to change her mind about our relationship then so be it... for the better..

[Son of Clyde]

I think American women may be pissed. Russian women are better looking. If you have a good Russian wife she will most likely treat you better than most American women will. Maybe when the air of mystery is gone and the US has a population of Russians as large as Asians, Arabs and Mexicans the novelty of an American husband will not be as appealing. Lets hope it will not be in our lifetime.

[wasson65]

My ex-wife made the comment once about me 'settling' for a Russian woman.  Yeah, whatever.  I'll keep 'settling' and laughing all the way into my old age.

Some people think it's some "white knight" complex that I have, others tell me "you're a good looking guy, you can get dates here, why go that far away?".

So I just tell them it's simple: Both Lily and I are being selfish.  I'm a better quality husband than she can easily find there, and she's a better quality wife than I can easily find here.  It's that simple.

As far as putting them on a pedestal, I don't think I do.  I know that women are women, and there are some things about them that are universal.  But there are certainly cultural differences that I think can work to the advantage of the couple, if they are understood.

People say "well, she's young, and the culture differences, and the language differences, it seems risky".  I tell them "Well, I married a woman my age, from my culture, who speaks english fine, and look where it got me - divorced after 16 years of total fidelity and 4 children.  I figured I'd try something different!"

Men seem to understand it much easier than women.

[al-c]

[user=920]wasson65[/user] wrote:

My ex-wife made the comment once about me 'settling' for a Russian woman.  Yeah, whatever.  I'll keep 'settling' and laughing all the way into my old age.

Some people think it's some "white knight" complex that I have, others tell me "you're a good looking guy, you can get dates here, why go that far away?".

So I just tell them it's simple: Both Lily and I are being selfish.  I'm a better quality husband than she can easily find there, and she's a better quality wife than I can easily find here.  It's that simple.

As far as putting them on a pedestal, I don't think I do.  I know that women are women, and there are some things about them that are universal.  But there are certainly cultural differences that I think can work to the advantage of the couple, if they are understood.

People say "well, she's young, and the culture differences, and the language differences, it seems risky".  I tell them "Well, I married a woman my age, from my culture, who speaks english fine, and look where it got me - divorced after 16 years of total fidelity and 4 children.  I figured I'd try something different!"

Men seem to understand it much easier than women.

I understand you fully because I was there too.  After 10 years of total fidelity and 2 kids, I got the street too.  My AW was 6 years my senior, spoke perfect English, and all that other crap, and I lost everything I worked my entire life to get.  So I figure any RW is an improvement, and if I play my cards right, the RW will be a substantial improvement.   I didn't fail with American women.  They failed with me.

 

[dwfunk]

. . .  Watch your wive's  friends VERY closely.  . . .  There are people that are  poison to a relationship.  They give evil advice, while posing as  the husbands friend.  Do everything in your power to discourage  your wife from these friends because iot WILL bite you in time.   If you hear "your husband is a weasel every day" you eventually come to  see him that way. 

I never saw this until too late.  The Ex's best friend is full of 'hate  men jokes', constantly denigrates her husband and has nothing good to  say about men or boys.

Incidentally, this woman's daughter, who is 18,  is now separated from her "shack-up boyfriend," he's in jail, her car  is totaled, he totaled it, after they had a fight, and he took off in a  rage, and she has 2 children in diapers, under 2 years of age.   

Fortunately, my two teenage daughters have expressed disgust and  displeasure about this woman's attitudes and behaviors. They are  already warming to the attention they are getting from the new  soon-to-be step-mom, dad's "foreign wife that he got off the Internet!"  (not their words, but they repeat them rather sarcastically, so you can  imagine who is actually saying them!)


-david

[KenC]

KenC

[wasson65]

[user=527]al-c[/user] wrote:

..So I figure any RW is an improvement, and if I play my cards right, the RW will be a substantial improvement.   I didn't fail with American women.  They failed with me.

Preach it brother!!!  I show people our picture together, and tell them, "This is wife 2.0" (I'm a programmer so it makes sense...)

Definitely an upgrade in all respects.  OK, so Russian women aren't perfect, well no group of women is perfect.  OK, there are risks with Russian women, just like all other groups of women as well.

So given that there are risks with both groups, wouldn't you rather take a chance on a group of women that enjoy their femininity, fashion, and looks, generally hold marriage in reasonably high regard, and seem to truly want to love a man and not some homogenized, androgenous blob of compliant muck?

[catzenmouse]

al-c, wasson65,

 I'll say a Great Big Double AMEN Brother to those thoughts! Why settle for ground hoof when you can have Prime Tenderloin?

 Any nay-sayers only show their lack of knowledge or their jealousy when they spout off about our treasures!

Ken

[wasson65]

...ex asks "How's your dad's Russian adoption going?"

Dude, this is priceless!!! Gee, you don't think this is sticking in her craw a little bit, now do ya??  LOL!

Just keep smiling.  Living well truly is the best revenge.  Why do they have to keep caring what we do?  Is it any skin off their nose that we're doing this?

Hmm, could it be because we're not doing what we were supposed to do after they insist on divorcing us?  We're supposed to live out the remains of our sorry days alone in some second floor efficiency apartment, getting fat and bald watching reruns of "The Dukes of Hazzard", wishing that someone who looked better than Cooter enlarged to 300 lbs would even give us the time of day, sucking down cheap beer and wondering how we'll get through another day without our ex there to kick us in the nuts.

Instead they think we're "gallavanting" across the ocean to see these women who are all "too skinny", just so we can "settle" for some dumb Russian girl who gets duped into living with us and doesn't know anything except to be a maid and slave!!!!

What we're really doing is meeting intelligent, personable, attractive, fit, loving women who happen to come from another country. 

Maybe you can answer the question this way: "Well, it's going really well, thank you.  And how's your American Divorce working out?"

[dwfunk]

yeah, my ex called all my relatives and told them how disgusting I was, because, "he has a web site advertising for a foreign wife!" My sister-in-law's comments were along the lines of: " So, let's see, YOU divorced him, and he's doing what? Why do you even care?"

My former roommate knows my ex, and she tells me that the ex is getting a smaller sympathetic crowd as others are seeing the photos or are hearing about them.  Comments like: "Oh, yeah!  He's got a foreign wife all right.  Have you seen her?  She's HOT!"

ah, yes, come to me my Baby-Sugar . . .


-david

[KenC]

[user=920]wasson65[/user] wrote:

...ex asks "How's your dad's Russian adoption going?"

Dude, this is priceless!!! Gee, you don't think this is sticking in her craw a little bit, now do ya??  LOL!

Just keep smiling.  Living well truly is the best revenge.  Why do they have to keep caring what we do?  Is it any skin off their nose that we're doing this?

Hmm, could it be because we're not doing what we were supposed to do after they insist on divorcing us?  We're supposed to live out the remains of our sorry days alone in some second floor efficiency apartment, getting fat and bald watching reruns of "The Dukes of Hazzard", wishing that someone who looked better than Cooter enlarged to 300 lbs would even give us the time of day, sucking down cheap beer and wondering how we'll get through another day without our ex there to kick us in the nuts.

Instead they think we're "gallavanting" across the ocean to see these women who are all "too skinny", just so we can "settle" for some dumb Russian girl who gets duped into living with us and doesn't know anything except to be a maid and slave!!!!

What we're really doing is meeting intelligent, personable, attractive, fit, loving women who happen to come from another country. 

Maybe you can answer the question this way: "Well, it's going really well, thank you.  And how's your American Divorce working out?"

Wasson,

Just a correction for the record:  I divorced her cheating azz!  My ex was always a good looking woman and very fit and trim.  I have to admit that this last Christmas I was taken aback by how much she has aged in photos my adult children shared with me.  But her looks and figure were never the issues with me.  Unfortunately, she thought the grass was greener and that there was nothing she could ever do to make me divorce her.  Of course she was also wrong about the idea of lifetime alimoney too! :cool:  For a woman that never worked a day in our 20+ year marriage, she has become a carreer minded woman (out of necessity).:hairraising:

 

I have long since stopped worrying about what she thinks of me and my actions.  As they say, happiness is the sweetest revenge!  The last 7 years with my sweet Russian wife have erased a lot of crappy memories with my ex for sure.  (BTW, my answer to the ex's question was "I think I am going to keep her"!)

KenC


 

[Daknack]

I am finally beginning to understand what some of you are talking about.  When I initially started in this, I had no issue telling people what I was doing in looking overseas.  The odd thing is that most of the people were initially supportive, and some now are at odds with it, where the ones that were initially not supportive seem fine with it. 

In the beginning I was very open (and still am at this point but re-assessing) about my plans and intentions.  Everyone in my life, friends and family knows my intents.  My mother and sister who were initially very resistive (saying it was an extreme reaction to my divorce), seem to have come to terms with it, with my mothe even finding out many people she works with have done this, and come in contact with their wives.  Her view is now that RW seem to be very well educated and bright.  Then she adds "I dont know what she would want with so and so hes kind of an A$$hole.  My sister is listening to my mother, and is now somewhat on the fence.

My father who was initially very supportive has now turned into my most vocal critic.  In the beginning I suppose like my mother and sister he thought this was a reaction to the horrible divorce I went through.  I remember him at one point telling my mother my reaction was understandable and she should leave me alone about it.  Of late hes been spouting feminist propagana (crap like no one would hire a female engineer because shes female) and telling me women are still like they were in the 1950's.  My little  one year old niece, has a toy kitchen and a washer dryer.  My father and I sat and watched her play running back and forth from the kitchen to the washer frantically "working" for about 20 minutes.  I was really adorable and I wish I had taped it.  At and rate my father turns to me and says, "See that?  What do you what with a foriegn woman?  Look at that hard working American Woman there? (of course I laughed at the idea a 1 year old is called a "woman")  You only need to find one thats been raised right!  Look at her working her poor little fingers to the bone!"

My friends (most of whom are single) are divided by age.  The older ones are concerened (thinking "visa whore") and the younger ones are gung ho.  Ive thought about this breakdown and both groups (sans the married ones) do crappy with the women.  The younger ones are both horny enough and adventurous enough to do something like this because they still havent been fully beaten down by women here yet (I dont know if you have noticed but MD/DC/VA seems a major area for people to do this because of poor quality women).  The older ones are more secure financially and really have totally lost interest in women.  They would rather count $ then get laid (Im wondering if they arent smarter then I am for that).

The married men are very supportive, though they feel it will last about 20 years (till she becomes americanized) then they think I should restart the process (or as a friend so succintly put it "Cash in your 40 for two 20s!").  The wives of said husbands see this as personally insulting to them (although they are not hostle surprisingly), and have vowed to "find me the right woman right here."  Thus far they have failed to get off thier asses to do that which amuses me to no end.

Initially, the only opposition I saw was in my mother and sister, so I never quite understood the "stigma thing" since I had never seen it first hand.  Now I understand it.

[KenC]

Daknack,

It doesn't suprise me that you have had little flak up until now because you really haven't done anything yet.  As you get closer to making a trip the resistance will increase.  When you actually begin having a long distance relationship and of course when you bring a RW home, is when the sheet will hit the fan initially.  All opinions will just intensify.  But if you choose well, your future bride will be able to win over the doubters.  But don't be suprised when your friend's wives pull their men in a little tighter when your RW is around.  They will fear that their men might be thinking of a trade up.

KenC