high risk - high reward

[mendeleyev]

I actually disagree with one part. I have lived in Ukraine for three years now, and being an English teacher, I can tell you wholeheartedly that financial means has absolutely nothing to do with the myriads of girls I have attracted.

I assure you that there are plenty of girls in FSR countries are not making their life partner decisions based on economic factors alone.

I can't argue with your personal experience as I'm not you. I'd also agree that there are plenty of ladies willing to take the risk of starting over--the American pioneers were just that, pioneers.

Without being disagreeable we should also note that there are also plenty ladies for whom a man's financial condition is a very important consideration. Not necessarily from being gold diggers, but from the legitimate concern of whether or not she is making a sound decision regarding her future. If she is to be poor, perhaps it would be better to be so in her home country while surrounded with the natural support of family and friends in an environment she understands.

My wife is a successful artist based in Moscow and one of her close artist friends from Kyiv has struggled with a marriage proposal from an Italian man. She loves the man, and I know that she has struggled with the issue based on hours and hours of phone time she has spent with my wife, but so far it seems that she is not willing to start over (she is successful) and rebuild an art practice that took time to cultivate, just to move to Italy. The gentleman in question is not poor but neither wealthy and we don't know what her final decision will be. Both are in their 40's. Well perhaps we do know her decision as this has been going on for months and so far she has stayed in Ukraine.

Does she love him? If hours and hours of crying on the phone is any indication, I'd say the girl is in love and tormented by her choices.

Art is much like the journalism and voice work that I do--both are based on contacts & relationships and were I to pack up our Russian & USA studios and offices and move to a new country, no matter how well liked or respected or how many contacts I'd have to start over, so I can relate to this lady's dilemma. That being said, would she pack up and move to Italy were he wealthy?

I don't have a crystal ball but my guess is yes as she could afford to move and invest the time necessary to start over with his support.
 

[newjason]

My wife is a successful artist based in Moscow and one of her close artist friends from Kyiv has struggled with a marriage proposal from an Italian man. She loves the man, and I know that she has struggled with the issue based on hours and hours of phone time she has spent with my wife, but so far it seems that she is not willing to start over (she is successful) and rebuild an art practice that took time to cultivate, just to move to Italy. The gentleman in question is not poor but neither wealthy and we don't know what her final decision will be. Both are in their 40's. Well perhaps we do know her decision as this has been going on for months and so far she has stayed in Ukraine.

Does she love him? If hours and hours of crying on the phone is any indication, I'd say the girl is in love and tormented by her choices.

Art is much like the journalism and voice work that I do--both are based on contacts & relationships and were I to pack up our Russian & USA studios and offices and move to a new country, no matter how well liked or respected or how many contacts I'd have to start over, so I can relate to this lady's dilemma. That being said, would she pack up and move to Italy  if he were wealthy?

I don't have a crystal ball but my guess is yes as she could afford to move and invest the time necessary to start over with his support.

Wow thanks mendeleyev
IMO  Is this friend of your wife's happy now without the man?
I mean, she has a well developed art practice already and It would appear that is what makes her happy and what makes her proud of what she does and who she is.
If she gives all this up for a man, she would loose all of her hard work and that what makes her happy.
To leave it all behind would be a terrible shock, and she would need to start over without her inner happiness. Because of this, she most likely will have expectations that he will fill that happiness void, while she begins again building her dreams and passion for art.

Is there a dollar amount for this kind of sacrifice?

Personally, I don't know, and I struggle with this question now. How much  $ would I trade my life for?
I think it's not for sale.  If someone needs to relocate and loose everything just to be with another person, I can not see that as a positive step in the right direction. It's a huge step backward.  They should consider they cost of their love, and If it is worth the years it will take to build what she already has built and is so proud of. Will he compliment her new life, or will he hinder it? That is a huge risk.

Ask her,  what is her perception of what the higher reward will be?
her reward vs her high risk.
It would be interesting to see what she decides and why.

[vaiano777]

Tonight, I studied Spanish for 30 minutes,, Russian for 30 too - everyday.  I have started learning the guitar two weeks ago too.  My fingers hurt like a Bitch.  All these simple things remind me of one thing = EFFORT, and only EFFORT - a disciplined focused will can create new habits and skills.

Some people call it "work".  I love the saying "The Harder I work, the Luckier I get."

SUPER!!!

[IAmZon]

That being said, would she pack up and move to Italy were he wealthy?

I don't have a crystal ball but my guess is yes as she could afford to move and invest the time necessary to start over with his support.

True.  BUT, what is wealthy?

To me, in the USA, wealthy is having half a million liquid and another couple million in hard assets (properties, stocks, whatever) -with an income of close to 6 figures, so you can "pay the bills" with out digging into savings. 

But, that is a much much higher definition than most good, reasonable (not spoiled / or gold digger) would use.   What is "wealthy" enough for a woman to not struggle with the decision you illustrate? 

I think just enough to provide the move, transition, and new life start-up for the woman - maybe with a little "Plan B" money, to keep feelings of panic away.  How much is that ...  $20,000 - $50,000?  That is not a very high bar, is it? That's not "wealthy."

If a woman is looking for more guarantees than that before marriage, I would be more than a little leery.

[BC]

True.  BUT, what is wealthy?

........

If a woman is looking for more guarantees than that before marriage, I would be more than a little leery.

First of all, I do wish you and Mendy would use the quote function properly..

Second, wealth has little to do with the money you have, but how you are able to enjoy the money you do have.

Example

My parents were not wealthy.. When we went out to eat the cost of the meal was calculated in advance using the menu and my dad was an expert at auditing the bill and calculating the tip.

Today, I may not be considered wealthy by your standards, but the only place I ever looked at the prices on the menu is at Harry's Bar in Venice.  An expresso there is around 80 bucks or so..

When visitors come here to visit, some are amazed when we go out to eat..  We sit down, the waiter will give his suggestions and we choose never having seen the menu or asked the price.  I hate it in the US when one asks the waiter / waitress for a suggestion and they say "we have really great snow crab legs today at so or so dollars per pound.  Comeon... I ain't gonna go broke at Red Lobster.....

My parents do quite well today btw..

Third, I think as far as finances go a woman that is single, without child or established business  will be able to accept greater financial risk.. after all nothing gained, nothing lost.  Once a business or child is involved the bar is set higher.. and it is very prudent to do so...  I would be more concerned if it isn't so.  My wife has a daughter and we waited 'until the school year ended' to bring her over.  I really believe my wife first wanted to 'check things out a bit' before taking that final step.  I respect her for that.

[Gator]

As the Mexicans say, money belongs not to the man who makes and saves it but to the person who spends it.    There is more to the Mexican saying......ending with "love belongs to the man who gives love."
 
I appreciate the thoughts about happiness as expressed by Jason and BC.  One of my best friends was a helicopter pilot in Vietnam.  He got shot down twice...lost his co-pilot one time and his entire crew the second time and almost died himself...while recuperating for a month in the hospital, he thought about life and came to the same conclusion about self-responsibility for happiness.   It sounds  egocentric, yet the secret is in sharing one's own happiness.  Today my friend is beloved by many....a real gentleman....and happily married for many years.

[BC]

As the Mexicans say, money belongs not to the man who makes and saves it but to the person who spends it.    There is more to the Mexican saying......ending with "love belongs to the man who gives love."

Thanks for that contribution Gator!.. brilliant.

[newjason]

In Mendy's wife's friends dilemma I don't believe it's about money.
 If she has a successful studio/gallery that she built from scratch and that is her passion and happiness in life, leaving all that behind and having to start again would take a person of exceptional inner character and self belief.

Starting over from zip is harder the older we get. Maybe because we get set in our ways and when we are successful at creating a happy routine it becomes a pleasure to stay in that routine.

That situation is a tough one.

Riv said the start-up capital would be necessary and he is right about that, but the emotional and professional support are going to be big factors to consider as well. She will need not only $ but time to  cultivate everything again. A lot of hours working, networking, developing clients and contacts. 
I wonder if she speaks  Italian?  If not, that alone may take years to be able just to communicate effectively.

Art is a very very unpredictable field. They don't call them starving artists for no reason. If one can make it their passion and make a decent living at it, that is truly and amazing feat. But, leaving it behind and relocating to a different country, different culture, different language...   It could be a disaster. Then again, great people are great no matter the circumstances.  It's the acceptance and recognition of that greatness that makes her career satisfying, not the money or the skill.

One thing is for sure, I would not want to be faced with such a decision to make, that would be one of the toughest decisions in life IMO. Or at least in the top 5 toughest.

without knowing anything about her boyfriend, I think I would ask him to relocate and see what happens.

[vaiano777]

After mu business failed in southern California, I started playing baseball again in a great adult baseball league. Then, I became the manger and started my own team in a younger division as well. It was hell disconnecting from that community and the amazing relationships and contacts that I had developed. I never would have thought about moving to South Korea or Ukraine if I could have found anything that gave me even a little bit of joy for work/income. So, I too can relate to this artist's dilemma. In this case, I guess I'd ask that Italian man to make his life in Kiev. But, I don't know what his situation is in Italy either, so it is difficult to say.

There have been so many great posts in this thread, all well thought out and presented. Food for thought.

[DKMM]

The right person is worth all of the risk and price it takes to acheive being with this person.  Your spouse is the one big person in life you can choose.  You can't choose your parents and you can't choose your kids.  It was absolutely worth the financial and career setback finding my wife brought me.  I'd do it again even if it took longer and more money.
I think this artist lady would jump at the chance to be with the Italian if she was in love but is not 100% sure it would work out logistically/financially and perhaps some other doubts as well.  Maybe he's not selling the deal well enough because of his own doubts.  Sad...