The Neocons and Chechen Policy

[Boethius]

An interesting article by former Exile co-founder, Mark Ames, on US policy toward the Chechens.


http://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/prisoners-of-the-caspian-part-one/045aac7bdd45325e226f5377b315e30cc4c0b038/

[Shadow]

The moment he calls then Chechen his credibilty is down to zero. These brothers are not Chechen at all. As for US policy, they are simply annoyed that Putin used the 'war on terror' rhetoric to justify the Russian actions in Chechnya.

[Voyager36]

The moment he calls then Chechen his credibilty is down to zero. These brothers are not Chechen at all. As for US policy, they are simply annoyed that Putin used the 'war on terror' rhetoric to justify the Russian actions in Chechnya.

Now it's just a catch all term for various militant groups from the Caucasus.



How many people do you think could even point to Chechnya on the map anyways? 

[Shadow]

Now it's just a catch all term for various militant groups from the Caucasus.



How many people do you think could even point to Chechnya on the map anyways? 

Easy enough... point at Russia 

[ML]

Better point at extreme south western Russia;  to avoid getting lost in the vast wilderness.

[Boethius]

The moment he calls then Chechen his credibilty is down to zero. These brothers are not Chechen at all. As for US policy, they are simply annoyed that Putin used the 'war on terror' rhetoric to justify the Russian actions in Chechnya.

Their father is an ethnic Chechen, they considered themselves Chechen, so how do you conclude they are not Chechens?




US policy was far deeper than you suggest, if you read about the work of the neocons and their influence on American policy.

[Shadow]

Their father is an ethnic Chechen, they considered themselves Chechen, so how do you conclude they are not Chechens?




US policy was far deeper than you suggest, if you read about the work of the neocons and their influence on American policy.

And the US has a Kenian for president.

[Boethius]

And the US has a Kenian for president.

Unlike the Tsarnaev brothers, Obama was born in America, to an American mother.  He did not grow up with his Kenyan father, was not raised in the culture, and knew nothing of it.  He does know a fair bit about Indonesian culture, and can still speak some Indonesian.

The older Tsarnaev brother did not emigrate to the U.S. until age 15.  Unlike Obama, he grew up in an immigrant family that embraced its own, rather than American culture.  He visited Dagestan, where he met with a distant cousin who was radicalized. 

So, I believe your analogy is flawed.

I am not a particular fan of Mark Ames, primarily because of the sleazy way he lived his personal life while in Russia, and the reference to the Tsarnaevs is somewhat overbroad and sloppy, but the gist of the article is really about neocon policy, and how their political interference has affected  intelligence gathering in the US.  Certainly, something went wrong if US intelligence ignored the warnings of Russian intelligence to them.

[Faux Pas]

Unlike the Tsarnaev brothers, Obama was born in America, to an American mother.  He did not grow up with his Kenyan father, was not raised in the culture, and knew nothing of it.  He does know a fair bit about Indonesian culture, and can still speak some Indonesian.

The older Tsarnaev brother did not emigrate to the U.S. until age 15.  Unlike Obama, he grew up in an immigrant family that embraced its own, rather than American culture.  He visited Dagestan, where he met with a distant cousin who was radicalized. 

So, I believe your analogy is flawed.

I am not a particular fan of Mark Ames, primarily because of the sleazy way he lived his personal life while in Russia, and the reference to the Tsarnaevs is somewhat overbroad and sloppy, but the gist of the article is really about neocon policy, and how their political interference has affected  intelligence gathering in the US.  Certainly, something went wrong if US intelligence ignored the warnings of Russian intelligence to them.

Probably for at least the last 20 years intelligence gathering and acceptance has been more about the political expediency and convenience of those in power. Maybe it has always been that way, I dunno. But, all the logic in the entire article is flawed IMHO. The idea that only conservatives will bend, manipulate or ignore intelligence data is pretty much kaka. It's all about power and keeping it.

[cc3]

Probably for at least the last 20 years intelligence gathering and acceptance has been more about the political expediency and convenience of those in power. Maybe it has always been that way, I dunno. But, all the logic in the entire article is flawed IMHO. The idea that only conservatives will bend, manipulate or ignore intelligence data is pretty much kaka. It's all about power and keeping it.

+100

[Boethius]

Probably for at least the last 20 years intelligence gathering and acceptance has been more about the political expediency and convenience of those in power. Maybe it has always been that way, I dunno. But, all the logic in the entire article is flawed IMHO. The idea that only conservatives will bend, manipulate or ignore intelligence data is pretty much kaka. It's all about power and keeping it.

I don't think the article refers only to conservatives.  Brzezinski is identified among that particular set.  As for power and keeping it, I agree, but I think it is also about shaping the world in a particular way, which always has blowback.

[Voyager36]

Unlike the Tsarnaev brothers, Obama was born in America, to an American mother.  He did not grow up with his Kenyan father, was not raised in the culture, and knew nothing of it.  He does know a fair bit about Indonesian culture, and can still speak some Indonesian.

The older Tsarnaev brother did not emigrate to the U.S. until age 15.  Unlike Obama, he grew up in an immigrant family that embraced its own, rather than American culture.  He visited Dagestan, where he met with a distant cousin who was radicalized. 

So, I believe your analogy is flawed.

I am not a particular fan of Mark Ames, primarily because of the sleazy way he lived his personal life while in Russia, and the reference to the Tsarnaevs is somewhat overbroad and sloppy, but the gist of the article is really about neocon policy, and how their political interference has affected  intelligence gathering in the US.  Certainly, something went wrong if US intelligence ignored the warnings of Russian intelligence to them.

Just curious, what did Ames do in Russia to earn your disdain?

[cc3]

And the US has a Kenian for president.

He's no more Kenyan than Howdy Doody (old reference...check it on Wiki). His father is Frank Marshall Davis, noted American communist and pornographer.

[Boethius]

Just curious, what did Ames do in Russia to earn your disdain?

Knowing she was underaged, got a girl drunk to sleep with her, then later wrote about how exciting it was.

Took another drunk girl home from a Moscow club, all while she was protesting she wanted to go home, and date raped her.  Of course, he didn't call it rape, but the scene he described is definitely rape.

Forced his then Russian girlfriend to have an abortion she didn't want, partly by threatening to throw her off his apartment balcony.

Bragged about sexually harassing the female Russian staff of his newspaper, the eXile, on a daily basis.

So, all and all, a misogynist and a nasty piece of work, but he was right about a lot of what was going on in Moscow (though he never attacked the really big fish, which is probably why he is still around) when he lived there.