delayed gratification!? - after 10 years (plus) we meet!

[CarlR]

Long Story short - I was traveling to Russia in 2002/2003 and was planning another trip - when the IRS and I had a dispute...  so, I couldn't travel - so, I ended conversations with the ladies... and... when things with the IRS were cleared up - the owner of the Agency had died... and the Agency has gone away... so, I couldn't find the ladies again...

Then... last July - I get a Facebook 'friend request' - and when I ask "How do I know you?" - The answer was "Carl, this is Tatiana in Yoshkar-Ola."

so,... after 10 years...  we finally met...


Hmmmm... a trip report...

I got back on the afternoon of May 5 - and I am so 'tired' of British Airways!  Spent the 6th reactivating my Lufthansa Frequent Flyer account - and I'll be using Lufthansa from now on. ;-)  because it looks like I will be traveling to Russia quite frequently in the future.

First:  I cannot say "Thank You" to Turboguy too much.  The interpreter he recommended (Alla K) is OUTSTANDING!!!  I could NOT have been more pleased...

My last trip to Russia was in 2002/2003 - and Russia has changed... a LOT!   It is much easier for an English speaker to get around... - In tourist areas - there are street signs & directions - both in Cyrillic and English...

The troubles in the Ukraine - well, I was getting around 35.5 Rubles to the dollar - so, the costs of my hotel, etc... we about 10% less than I projected.  So, that was an added benefit.  I had planned on the 'usual' exchange rate of 30 to 32...  Back in 2002 - the Marriot had their rates in USD... now they are in Rubles...  so, that was 'interesting'...

A word for those who might be interested...  I created a 2nd bank account - that is NOT 'linked' (overdraft protection, etc...) to any of my other accounts.  I then got a ATM/Debit card - that can only access the new 'account'.  This is for personal financial protection.  When I need money, etc... in a foreign location - I use 'online' banking (internet) to transfer some money into this 'new account' and then go get it from an ATM machine.  Doing this - if anyone gets the 'information' from the ATM/Debit card - they can't *clean me out*... ;-)  So, consider this...  Another convenience this will provide - is that if you decide to assist the lady and 'go forward' with the relationship - you can leave this 'Debit card' with her for emergencies... and also to assist her... - It is much easier to Skype with a lady when there is a problem - put some money in the 'new account'... and then she can walk to an ATM and get the assistance...This is much easier and faster than MoneyGram/Western Union, etc...

So, I met Tatiana - and the time in Moscow went wonderfully...  Things look quite promising...  Right now, Tatiana is looking for an apartment in Yoshkar-Ola where I will be able to stay on my next trip to meet her family.  We both decided that our first meeting should be in Moscow - For me - if we met and we did not like each other - I didn't want to be 'stuck' in Yoshkar-Ola - better to be in Moscow...  and for her - the ladies also can get a bunch of 'flak' from people around their home...  like the stuff we gents usually get at home... "Why are you going to meet a lady in Russia - there are women here in the USA! (for me)"…  So, this way - she had a little vacation to Moscow - and now she can tell her friends about me because I am going to Yoshkar-Ola...

Now - we are working with the issues... of finding an apartment where the 'owner' will be willing to go through the effort of 'registering me' with the Russian Migration services...  This is not a problem when you go to a typical hotel... as they do it automatically... however if I wish to stay in an apartment and meet her family, etc...  for say two or three weeks - then, it can become a REAL issue. ;-)

The following is what I have been told... so, I am not saying it is all true - I'm still investigating... ;-)


I have a friend who has a business in Moscow (he's been there for around 15 years or so...) and he tells me that the Russian officials - are paying much more attention to this now.  If a FOREIGNER does NOT register in time - you can be picked up by the police - put in jail...  the 'administrative fines' can be in the thousands of $$ and you can be BANNED from Russia for 10 years... :-/

Apartments where you can be registered are not 'All apartments'... - evidently some you can... some you can't - the owner of the apartment (not the renter) must be willing to do the paperwork - and my friend tells me that not all apartments are 'official'...  Those that are done with 'White money' are where you can... but if there is any 'hanky-panky' going on - those, the owner of the apartment will NOT perform this paperwork. (my friend calls this 'black money')...

So, I'll continue to investigate... and once I know for sure... what the story is - I'll report it here... - or others can chime in - as they wish.

Tatiana has two daughters - so, to see if we all 'get-along' - I figure it is best to actually live in the same apartment as a member of the family.... Only then will I get to know them and see if this is going to 'work'.  Teenage daughters can sometimes bring a lot of stress to a family - and a mother (of any nationality) should give priority to their children... (sorry guys - a fact of life is that we can be #1 in a ladies life... only so long as she doesn't have kids ;-) )...

I'm lucky in that I can tele-commute to my work from Russia - so, I plan on actually spending time with my new family - before we think about changing where they 'live' ;-)  Calling it living as a family for 4 weeks at a time - where I can be the one dealing with the 'stress' of a new environment... - rather than bringing a mother and 2 daughters to someplace that is strange to them. ;-)


So, a wonderful trip - and a new adventure begins... - it looks good... and I hope it continues in the same way! :-)

[Slumba]

Wow!

[CarlR]

chuckle... Yeah, Slumba - my thoughts precisely!...

A little more info for 'newbies' who might be making a trip...

Understand - that when you are there - you will be observing the behavior of the lady... - and yes... she will be observing your behavior...  even when she is NOT present... ;-)

For example - ladies talk... and if you have an interpreter (and if you don't - you're a damn fool! ;-) )... - so, ladies talk... and just chat about things... 

I love my coffee - I always take coffee beans along with me - and I get a 'pot' & 'grinder' where ever I am...  So, in my initiall discussions with my interpreter (Alla via Skype)... we discussed issues - I sent her an initial deposit via MoneyGram... - and she found an brought a coffee pot and grinder to Moscow for me.  She lives about a 5 hour bus trip from Moscow - and so, because of flight uncertainties - I wanted to be in Moscow a day before Tatiana arrived... (gives me a little chance to adjust to the time differences ;-) )...

So, I arrived on the 29th of April - and Tatiana arrived on the 1rst of May...  I had this 'new acquaintance' (Gary from the USA - has been living in Russia for about 15 years)... and so, he came over on the 30th... and showed up about the same time as Alla - and we figured stuff out...

First for me - was to fix some good coffee... - and as I was doing so - I saw the 'pot' takes a Melitta filter - probably #3 or #4... (I hate the Universal filters - I don't like to clean them) so - I said I'll have to look for filters... Gary said I probably couldn't find them... - so, I said... "Hell, they're about 3 dollars for a hundred - so, next time I'll bring 3 or 4 hundred with me."  Gary said "Carl, it's no problem - just have Tatiana clean the filter..."  I looked at Gary and said 'seriously'... "Gary, if I don't like to clean the damn filter.... Why in the Hell would I tell Tatiana to do it!?  How would I feel - if everytime Tatiana doesn't want to do something... she expected me to do it?"  I laughed and said - "That wouldn't last too damn long!" ;-)

So, I had done some other things over the next few days... and on the next to last day - Tatiana looked at me - and said... "Carl, you are a *very special* man."...  I looked at her funny and asked "Why do you say that?"... and she said - "There are many things that you do - that are very different than most men...  Alla told me about what you said about cleaning the coffee pot filter... and she was very, very surprised at your thoughts.  Alla told me - that you are NOT like most men..."

So, I guess that means I am a 'keeper'... and I'm happy with that.


I feel that there is a MAJOR difference - between being *considerate*... and *not manly*...  Russian ladies want a man they can rely on - who is 'strong'... - to me - there is a big difference between being 'strong' - and treating the lady like 'furniture'... ;-)

Will my easy going nature *work* in Russia - the jury is out... - However, for those that might think I'm too laid back... I can only say that my best friend for the longest time said this to someone... "Carl's the nicest person I know - however, you'd much prefer to try and *sandpaper a wildcat's ass in a telephone booth*... than get him irritated!"...

So remember - as you are looking at the lady and figuring out if she's the partner you hope for... she is too. ;-)

crf...

[Gator]

CarlR,

Fantastic. 

One question - if you are open to marriage, why didn't some fine AW over the past 10 years catch your eye and heart?

Regarding your easy going nature, if that is your true nature, stay that way.  Actually, such a nature will help if you marry Tatiana because the first year of her adjustment will stress her.  You will need much patience and to be constantly mindful of her feelings and needs.   Even then most problems will be "your fault."


You wrote: 

 
Tatiana has two daughters - so, to see if we all 'get-along' - I figure it is best to actually live in the same apartment as a member of the family.... Only then will I get to know them and see if this is going to 'work'.

You can judge the cooperativeness of the daughters towards you.   More important, you can judge where you stand with Tatiana.

Teenage daughters can sometimes bring a lot of stress to a family...

Teenage daughters will need as much attention from you as from Tatiana, you particularly for explaining cultural differences, e. g., sleepovers.   Also, teenagers are hormonally impaired and what you see one day is no guarantee that tomorrow will be the same.  Again, pay attention to how Tatiana 1) supports you, 2) discusses parenting issues with you,  3) seeks your consultation before decisions are made, and 4) resolves any conflicts however minor.  You will never be privy to   certain female secrets.   If she undercuts you, be very careful.
 

a mother (of any nationality) should give priority to their children... (sorry guys - a fact of life is that we can be #1 in a ladies life... only so long as she doesn't have kids ;-) )...
 

Her daughters are not young kids needing constant monitoring.  Tatiana has time for you.  She will love her daughters immeasurably, yet the love for you should be strong.  Daughters grow up, get married, and move away from home.  Then it is just you and Tatiana.  Tatiana should be happy for her daughters when this day comes and be happy for the two of you. 


I wish you the best.

[Chicagoguy]

A few of the visa service industries [ Go To Russia ] for instance are able to get you a Business Visa. There is even a 3 year visa now for not much more money. It might be a little extra but you can easily move around more. BUT all visas must be registered after you arrive. Ask around about OVIR office. Last year I waited until last legal day and clerk certainly noticed.
I do the same as you with debit cards also and my wife is in Russia now with one. For some reason bank keeps saying password doesn't work plus they want 10% fee. If same problem persists I will use Money Gram.
Sounds like you have a good woman and good plans.

[CarlR]

Chicagoguy...

I do have a 3 year 'Tourist' visa - however, if you look on your Visa in the passport - on the line with 'Date of Issue' and validity dates... over to the right - is the "duration of stay" "days" and there, I have 180...  My friend has one with 1084... and I'm jealous... - then again... he has many *friends* in the different Ministries in Moscow. ;-)

I have to check into this - because I was told this was the number of days I could stay in Russia *in a 365* day period...

Reading this line "Duration of Stay" "Days" - leads me to wonder about this...  Some people have told me that I can stay for 180 days... leave the country for 1 day... and return to Russia and all will be good.  Others have said - that I can only be in Russia for 180 days in any 365 day period...  I will have to find out the 'official' ruling on this ;-)

==> OVIR office??  I was led to believe that I need to be 'registered' where I was staying - by the 'owner' of the location *where I was staying*...  Is this what you are talking about - or is this something different?

On my previous trips back around 2000 thru 2003... this didn't seem to be such an issue...  My friend says that currently they are getting very, very picky about this - especially with the current troubles in the Ukraine... and the Russian media blaming America for the current problems...  My friend says that currently - the officials are coming around to insure that you are saying where you have been registered... and that the 'officials' are rather intimidating to the owner of the location you are staying... - so, this is what I've been told... not what I *know* ;-)

==> About the card... - at my Credit Union... - I have to go in (be present physically) and fill out a form - telling the Credit Union I am traveling overseas... and what countries I am 'visiting' and the 'duration of my travel' (limited to 90 days currently)...  This might be the problem for your wife.  I don't take my ATM/Debit card *into* a bank - I just use the ATMs around the city and they work well.

My CU limits my card transactions to $500 a day... (24 hour period) - but that works well for me.

Thank You for the information...  If it turns out that I only need to leave Russia for 1 day every 6 months - I'll be a *happy camper* ;-)

[CarlR]

Hi Gator... - Excellent Question (about why I didn't marry some fine AW)... and it deserves an honest answer... - chuckle, Tatiana asked me the same question while we were chatting the first day... ;-)

I had to think about it - and it's more of a 'story'.  I've been married twice... 7 years both times... - and both times, it was the lady's choice to divorce.  Why??  I'll never be able to say - but it was probably a little bit 'both' of our fault... - Then again, in my defense - I will say that within a year... both ladies wanted to come back and start again...

My first wife - the mother of my two children told my daughter "Divorcing your father was the worst mistake I ever made."...

My second wife called after about 11 months and wanted to try again...  I was quite startled by this and asked... "You said some pretty harsh things when you were leaving...  as I remember - one was... if I was the last man on earth you would be buying stock in 'EverReady' battery company... - so, why are you calling me now?"  Her answer - "Carl, no man has ever treated me as good as you do..."

So - after two wives - and 1 serious girlfriend... I thought about it - and I remembered my 'serious girlfriend' (who I am still friends with today)...  We were together for about 8 years - and living in New Mexico...  she had a little farm - 500 pecan trees and loved horses... we had 13... she was running a horse operation... I worked at White Sands Missle Range - and my company lost the contract there - and I started my own consulting business at NASA JSC in Houston (where we met)...

Over about a year and a half - me in Houston, her in New Mexico... - I realized... I still loved her... but I was NOT 'in love' with her.  So, on my next trip - I explained this to her as we were driving home from the airport... We were both crying... and she said... - "Carl, we have a pretty good thing... It'll do!"... I replied... "Dear >>>><<<<, It'll do - WON'T DO!"...

Perhaps I'm weird - or whatever... but my personal values will not allow me to seek happiness with another woman - if I have given my committment to someone... like a girlfriend... or Significant other...  So, if I don't feel that a relationship is *very, very special*... I feel it is unfair to both myself and the lady - to continue... because IF - I'm not committed to it - then I am *betraying* the trust of the lady.  So, I would rather be alone - than just be with someone - to not be alone. ;-)

This way - I may not ever meet my *other half* - but I can wake each morning... with the hope that *today might be THE DAY*... ;-)

I have heard it said... that men look for someone very much like their mother.  Perhaps - all I know is that - AW just don't seem to attract me as much as ladies from Eastern Europe do.  They have such an interesting mix of femininity... strength, intelligence, and are so - I don't have words... - but I have never been able to describe the feeling when walking down the street with a Russian lady - and she puts her arm in mine...  The ladies I've met have such an interesting mix of romantic... and pragmatic... - it is just wonderful to me.

So, in my years (over 14 since my last divorce) - I decided that I wouldn't settle for *It'll Do* - I won't lie - so, if I can't honestly tell a lady that I love her - I won't... and that puts a real crimp in trying to build a relationship.

So, we will see where this will go. ;-)  I'm also a person who belives that things in life happen for a reason.  I was disappointed when I couldn't go see Tatiana - and so, it is very interesting to me - that after 10 years - the Good Lord let Tatiana find me on Facebook...

I asked her - "Why did you look for me?"... and Tatiana said... "I have always wondered what it would be like to meet you."... - So, perhaps... just perhaps... the Good Lord is answering my prayers... - and I am a very firm believer in the saying... "If you don't bet... you can't win!"...  So, keeping a watchful eye... I figure what the Hell... I'm *all in!*...

Now - as to her 'adjusting'... - Tatiana and I have talked about this - and to tell the truth... I like Russia (so far)... - so, rather than bring Tatiana and her girls to the USA - I plan on spending most of my time in Russia.  I have my kids and g'kids... - but I only see them about once a year anyway... - so, to my way of thinking... why relocate Tatiana and her daughters to the USA - why don't I relocate to Russia?  I can't think of a reason... not to do this.

Yes - it is important that we let each other know what we think and feel - we have had discussions about this... - in the interim via Skype - we talk about her problems with her work, the kids, her parents, etc...  I try and offer any insights and advice I have - and I keep reinforcing that I think she is a intelligent, strong woman... and that I will support her in any decision she makes.  As I have told her - I may not always agree with her about something - but I will NEVER stand with others telling her she is wrong...  If I think/feel that some *other decision* would be better - we will talk about this - behind closed doors... just between the two of us.  At the end of the day - no matter what happens - I will give her what "I see"... and she can think about it and we can discuss it... but - in the area of her kids... she knows them best... :-)

About 'judging the cooperativeness' of the daughters - yes, you're 100% correct - and also about where I stand with Tatiana... - I've always been in 'awe' of the bravery of ladies coming with their kids to the USA on a Fiancee Visa...  they really go *out on a limb*...  To me - this will let me see how we work as a family together - before we attempt bringing them to the USA... ;-)

Actually, only one of the daughters is a teenager... she's 16... her other daughter is a little less than 2 years old.

It is so true what you say about paying attention to how Tatiana 'supports me', etc... - so far - we have been working well together in these areas.  I concur with your thoughts... :-)

Tatiana says one of the things she likes most about me - is that when she is with me - or having a bad day... I can bring her smiles... and soon she will be smiling and laughing... So, - we had a magical time in Moscow... now we just need to see how that 'translates' to family life in Yoshkar-Ola... - and where ever... we end up... ;-)

Thanks for your thoughts... I appreciate them... :-)

[Manny]

A decent travel agent like Intourist will register your visa no matter where you stay. Easier than queuing up and/or having locals filling in forms and running around town.

[pokerintherear]

So, I guess that means I am a 'keeper'... and I'm happy with that.

Remember this is in your mind which is filled with euphoria. Crystal clear thinking is clouded.

I will give you my opinion be it right or wrong.

You are the last of her options. In the last 10 years she played out all the other men who she thought she could tie down. Most likely with the 2 kids few local men would even think of asking for her hand in marriage.

After all options are gone she sees Carl as the last resort for a husband and wallet.

[GQBlues]

Yeppers, 10+ years ago Yoshkar-Ola was scam capital of all of the FSU. Odessa today is nothing compared to what Yoshkar-Ola was back then.

Anyway, little of that matters now. I hope you find your happiness with what you seek. After 10+ years in the MOB, one can eventually find retirement from the hustle and bustle a little more inviting.

Good luck!

[Faux Pas]

Carl

It would appear you've done more posting than reading at RWD.  You don't have to have an apartment manager to register your visa. In fact, most will not. Registering your visa is a pain in the ass but, it's not a big deal. Your lady can do it for you once you arrive. There are other alternatives such as taking it to a hotel. Even though you are not staying there many/most will register it for you for a reasonable fee, and it's worth it. As mentioned there are other alternatives as well.

Getting caught after the deadline without your visa being registered isn't a major crime. More or less, it's an opportunity to get shaken down by the cop that finds you without it. Most will cheerfully accept a sizable bribe.

Congrats on your new found lady and your successful visit. In my opinion, you have your cart well before your horse. My advice is to slow your ass down in a major way. A lot has changed in the 12 years since your earlier trips. It's not necessary to pack a wedding ring and plan the future life on the first visit. Just because she is across the ocean and in Russia doesn't allow you any short cuts. Romance, wine, dine and 69 for a while and numerous trips. Don't rush in to this like your ass is on fire, it ain't.

Good Luck

[Wayne]

Did Tatiana offer to have you stay at her place? Unless she lives with her parents or someone else?
If you are thinking already about living in Russia, it would be good if she had a flat that was all payed for.
 
I think that the three year visa allows you to stay in Russia for up to 180 days. I don't know how long you need to be out of Russia before you can return. If you do get married, you can apply for TRP and after one year PR.
 
How good is Tatiana's English?  Your Russian?

[Maxx2]

I like a lot of your thoughts and plans. The one about not dragging this family out of their environment is the best. Better for you to spend time there and for the both of you to get to know one another than have that to do while she is going through culture shock here in America. That stress plus the stress of jumping through all the immigration hoops and conditions has contributed to a lot of marriage breakups.


Daughters? The biggest risk is the teenager getting it into her head to clearly establish that she is her mother's number one. Causing division and strife are tools they use. I have seen this over and over. Becoming friends with the daughter can help but it is no guarantee. What I am about to say is untested as far as I know. You could possibly sit down with your fiancee and discuss this potential problem. That you know that her daughters will always be first in her life. That they are dependent on her so she must do this. But that it is important to their development that they think that you are her number one. This way when they grow up and become wives they will put their husbands first and not neglect their needs in favor of their children. I see frequency of divorce in Russia and "the little prince the little princess" is one of the factors. Russian men were raised as "little princes" and then become suddenly overthrown when their wives had children. The cycle needs to be broken.


I really enjoyed your posts. Welcome to the board.


Maxx

[Turboguy]

First:  I cannot say "Thank You" to Turboguy too much.  The interpreter he recommended (Alla K) is OUTSTANDING!!!  I could NOT have been more pleased...

You are very welcome CarlR.   I have had a number of RWD members use Alla on my recommendation over the time I have been on this site and every single one has raved about her.  She really is outstanding and if anyone ever needs an interpreter or assistance in Moscow please let me know and I will get  you her contact information.

[CarlR]

Answering in Order of the 'replies'...

==> Manny...

Thanks...  I've spent the morning here researching...  and reviewing information...  There's some informative stuff on the American Moscow Embassy - giving a lot of info (that might be dated) about the visas, etc...

I need to identify... my 'Sponsor' for my Visa... as it looks like they are the people I need to know if there are any problems...  So, I have to figure that out - or see if I can have different sponsors for each trip.

I just spoke with the Visa service I used here in Houston ( http://www.ils-usa.com/main.php ) to verify - and with my 3 year 'Tourist' visa - I no longer need the letter of invitation, etc..., etc...  The 'Letter of Invitation' was only necessary for getting the Visa initially.

Since I'll be traveling to Yoshkar-Ola - and my nature is to try and avoid 'hassles' where ever possible - I will see about getting a 'Letter of Invitation' from some travel agency in Yoshkar-Ola...  That way, I'll have paid someone so that if I need assistance - they will be available... and use them for the Visa Registration, etc...

The Firefox translate feature works pretty well - and I've been going through the Russian Federal Migration Service website - reading the stuff there... 

Interesting...


==> pokerin'

Chuckle, I'm reminded of when I took a 'personality test' many years ago...  The facility administering the test... called me later to come back in for some interviews...  I was a bit befuddled - so, I went... and we had the interview... and I was curious - so, I asked "Why did you want to call me in?"  Their answer... - "Well, our evaluation criteria threw up a 'flag' about your answers... - and you can be classified as 'Ultimate Realist' or 'Major Dreamer' - by changing the answer to one question...  We wanted to try and identify what was going on."

That's just my nature... I always see what might be - *both ways*...  Could it be as you say 'last resort'? - Yes... or it could be that she is genuine and there is true compatibility there... - Only time will tell this tale... - I do know this... If I DON'T BET... I can't win!"

I only know this... that when I'm old and sitting next to someone else on the park bench... feeding the pigeons... and they say "You know... once I could have done XXXX!"...  I want to be able to chuckle... smile... and say either... "Damn, you missed the time of your life!"... or "Guy, that was 40 miles of BAD ROAD!"... because I *did XXXX*...

When I pass - the one thing I never want to do... is wonder what might have happened... if I had - had the balls to take a chance!

So, yes - I know what you suggest might be the case... - but then again... would I be going to Russia if I had found better here?? ;-)  Turnabout's Fair...  and as long as we are both happy - what difference is there? ;-)

Tatiana got in touch with me in July of last year... and then, total silence for about 4 or 5 months... - then we started talking again...  So, last week - I asked what happened... - through Alla because I didn't want lack of competency to hinder getting the story...  As Tatiana said - her ex-husband was someone she really, really wanted to keep... (but - my words - she was tired of being treated like 'furniture').  Once she had given up - and the divorce was final... then we started talking again.  So - I've *been there... done that***... how can I blame her for something I would do also?  Oh well, I will follow this path... because until I see the 'end of this road'... I don't know what's around the curve...  might as well enjoy the journey ;-)


==> GQBlues

Yeah GQ - my friend Gary told me about Yoshkar-Ola being the 'scam-capitol' of Russia...  I started going to Yoshkar-Ola because of Maksim's... Max was *certain death* on scammers at his Agency... - and Tatiana was on his website for some time before he passed on.  So, that's one of the reasons to give Tatiana the benefit of 'the doubt'...  After Gary mentioned this - I told Tatiana about the 'scams' - and she said "Oh Yes!, but not so much these days because a lot of the people doing this have gone to jail."

My feeling is that Max's Agency was the reason the scammers took over - when I was going there - Yoshkar-Ola was *known* as a place where there were few scammers... - After Max died... I guess no one could handle all the businesses he had set up - the Agency 'evaporated'... leaving the field open for scams...

So, Tatiana and I benefitted from having met through Maksim's...  Yes, she might have changed... but as I related to pokerin' - she seems to be genuine... time will tell.


==> Faux Pas

Actually, I read a lot - however, I didn't find *specific* answers to the questions (what are the procedures/requirements) I am checking on. ;-)  So, better to ask questions.  ;-)

My work has always been fixing problems on major computer systems and so - my nature is to spend lots of time identifying what hoops will need to be addressed... who/what/how to take care of it... and running 'what-ifs' through my mind.  Once I have the stuff figured out... No Problem - then I can sit back and know I have done 'due diligence'.  If something I haven't thought of occurs - okay, I can deal with that - however, I prefer to have 'the plan' in place.

As to getting the 'cart' before the horse... Hmmmm... well - this will be a major step - for both myself and Tatiana...  If I don't really think about the issues and what *might happen* if we have something we both wish to continue forward with... - then I don't think I'm much of *a man*.  So, before I went to see Tatiana - I spent a lot of time thinking about what the problems might be.  If there was something I wouldn't be able to *deal with*...  Then, I should stop talking to the lady - because - if she is genuine... and I am not... I wouldn't like the man I see in the mirror.

Am I *hard over* planning spending the rest of my life with Tatiana... Hmmm... it would be nice... - however, we have just spent a few days together - essentially - both of us on Holiday in Moscow.  So, that was good... - but the real test will be how we get along in family life. ;-)  So, while I'm hopeful...  I realize that - you can't always fit a two people together... sometimes it just won't work.  If it doesn't work... - No Biggie... I'll be a bit disappointed... but I'll live with it...  Then again... what if it does work!?  That's when spending the time considering the future will be worthwhile... ;-)

I can truly say - "Been There... Done That" about this... I met my second wife - while her daughter was spending the summer vacation (1 month) with her father.  It was wonderful... - and then... the family life started... Stressful to the *MAXIMUM*...  It was Hell on wheels for the next 7 years... - and so... I met my 2nd wife *on vacation*... - that's why no matter how good it appears - the jury is still out... until we see how things work when the full family life of everyday happens... and what it is like. ;-)

So, thank you for you well wishes... - Yes, I understand there are no *short cuts*...  I wouldn't attempt this if I could not go to see her and the family several times... and not just for a few days... - my hope is to alternate months - between here and Yoshkar-Ola... tele-commuting helps.. and each time I hope to stay a bit longer and longer - so that we know how things will work. :-)


==>  Wayne

Tatiana currently lives with her parents - so, we are planning on getting an apartment for her and her kids... That is part of the issue right now - I just want to insure that when she gets the apartment - that when I go to Yoshkar-Ola - I can reside in the apartment.  That's the reason for the questions about registration, etc...

I was told - that the person who 'owns' the residence (apartment owner) has to be the one that does the Federal Migration Service stuff - so that I can legally (Russian laws) stay with Tatiana and her girls.

I spoke with the Visa company here in the USA that I used... the one linked off the Russian Consulate - and they stated that I can stay up to 180 days - then I have to leave for at least 1 day... and then I can re-enter Russia...  I need to verify that - and from the American Embassy - that the 'sponsor' of my Visa is who I will need to interact with the FMS if I have visa or migration card problems... So, I have to identify that entity... and make sure the bases are covered.

Yes, I saw the info about TRP and PR Visas on the Russian Federal Migration Service website...

Tatiana's English is pretty good - most of the time we don't need a translator - and Tatiana was laughing at the end of her trip to Moscow - because she was saying "I will find myself trying to figure out how to ask something in English - even while I am speaking to another Russian! - Then I realize they are Russian - so I already know how to speak with them!"  I'm working on my Russian diligently... I got decent before I went - now I need to get a lot better for the trip to Yoshkar-Ola. ;-)


==> Maxx2

Thanks - yeah, I thought a lot about that.  We will see how it works... - and as I said above - I understand about the daughters...  I had the same *wakeup* when I was in my first marriage - and we had our kids...  It's something that you learn to deal with... with 'experience'.  It's something that a man has to realize and accept... because if a man doesn't... things probably won't go well! :-)

Tatiana and I have talked about her daughters - and how we will work together... - but I think - talking about it... and seeing how it works... could be two entirely different things... ;-)

Thanks...

[Maxx2]

The scamming by the agencies has involved from what it was 10 years ago. Now from what I see is there is some legitimate aspects to them but only for cover. The real money is letter writing and Skype/chat fees and not matchmaking. I believe there is some of the later but only for cover to their real money makers. I feel sorry for all the older women who think that they will find what they are looking for.

[Daveman]

First:  I cannot say "Thank You" to Turboguy too much.  The interpreter he recommended (Alla K) is OUTSTANDING!!!  I could NOT have been more pleased...

Hey now.  *I* was the first to mention Alla.. gimme my credit for starting that ball rolling!!    She's definitely a cool lady. 

Would they even issue a tourist visa to one who already has a multiple entry business visa? 

[Faux Pas]

Hey now.  *I* was the first to mention Alla.. gimme my credit for starting that ball rolling!!    She's definitely a cool lady. 

Would they even issue a tourist visa to one who already has a multiple entry business visa?

I'm confident they would although it would be redundant