Russia and Donbas

[Doll]

Boe, nobody envaded  anything. Ukrainians are fighting Ukrainians

[AkMike]

Putin is the strongest president in the history of Russia

Being a school yard bully isn't being strong. 
 He's not that wise in the way that he's isolated Russia back to the days of the Cold War. The ruble is now worth .02 USD and inflation is going to be at 9%. Russia is going broke just like the USSR and he still wants to spend on war instead of improving the country . The government is stealing the set aside funds to pay pensioners and using that to spend as they see fit. The oil companies appreciate that I'm sure.

[AkMike]

You can call it whatever you want. Русский характер никто не отменял

 I call it as I see it.. Lemmings blindly following the one ahead over the cliff. Unseeing uncaring. Russians can be so much more than this.

[Boethius]

That is not accurate, Doll.

Russian forces were in Crimea.  It was denied by Putin at the time of the invasion, but admitted thereafter.

As I have noted in the past, the first leaders of the "rebels" or, more accurately, bespredelshchiki, were Russian citizens, all either former or current GRU/FSB agents.  They were not locals. 

Strelkov complained early on that he could not find 1,000 locals to join the ranks of the mercenaries from Russia and Chechnya who were fighting in Donbas.  That has changed currently, but there are still large numbers of mercenaries there.

Russia has supplied the bespredelshchiki with arms.  Ukraine was on the verge of crushing the opposition when Russian tanks and paratroopers arrived to reverse gains made.  Russian human rights organizations have documented the deaths of Russian soldiers in Donbas.

Now, you can continue to believe Putin's blatant lies that Russia is not involved in Donbas, just as he lied initially about Crimea, but there is so much evidence to the contrary, only a fool would believe those lies.

[southernX]

Boe, nobody envaded  anything. Ukrainians are fighting Ukrainians

doll your sure a hard liner on this ,

even blind freddy can see putin/russia has invaded and illegally stolen crimea , then continued on into the donbass ,

where do you really think all the weapons etc have come from ??
outer space maybe ?

none so blind as a few posters on here ,
however please understand doll myself and many others have family still in russia who we love , as well as ukraine , this is not good for either country, and it will end badly if it continues like it is ,

putin , if he is as strong as you say could stop this in one week ,
he chooses not to , the man is an egotist , and has small man syndrome , he will leave russia worse than he found it , of that you can be sure

SX

[AkMike]

Boe, nobody envaded  anything. Ukrainians are fighting Ukrainians

 Why are all the trucks with Cargo 200 leaving Ukraine east bound back into Russia?

[Boethius]

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/ukrainian-evidence-russian-involvement-east-n86076

[Boethius]

To better understand reports of a Russian presence in east Ukraine, The WorldPost turned to Elena Racheva, a special correspondent for Russia's Novaya Gazeta opposition newspaper.  Racheva says that she has found "convincing" evidence that Russian troops have been sent to fight in Ukraine.

Who are the main groups fighting the government in east Ukraine?

I had the chance to talk to some of the rebels in the Russian town of Donetsk [not to be confused with the Ukrainian town of Donetsk]. About three-quarters of them were originally from Ukraine's Donetsk and Luhansk regions and a quarter of them were Russian citizens. Many of the rebels from both of these groups had fought in the Russian wars in Chechnya or Afghanistan. They wanted to fight again. They had blindly trusted Russian media and repeated Russian TV stories about Ukrainian forces using phosphorus bombs and children being crucified.

Relatives of Russian soldiers told me that while soldiers were occasionally sent on short-term missions inside Ukraine in July, the situation started to change at the beginning of August, when the Ukrainian army was able to push back the separatist rebels. Russia then started sending in larger regiments and military equipment, although without any identifying markings or license plates. I have no idea what the current proportion of Ukrainian separatist volunteers to Russian troops is. No journalist does.

Does this mean that Russia is actually sending forces to Ukraine?

Some soldiers were going voluntarily in June and July. Their relatives told me that army chiefs offered them big salaries to retire from the military and go to Ukraine as "volunteers" without official documents, although only a small number of soldiers agreed to do this.

The situation changed later on, and soldiers are now forced to go. Usually it works like this -- the regiment is sent to the Russian-Ukrainian border for "training" and after a while they get the order to go into Ukraine. I know of at least one case when soldiers who refused were threatened with prosecution.

Sometimes the soldiers aren't even told where are they going. For example, the uncle of one seriously wounded paratrooper told me that on Aug. 3, his nephew was told they were being deployed from Ulyanovsk in central Russia to Chebarkul in the east. After a few hours they realized they weren't going east at all, but west towards Ukraine. He didn’t jump out of the car and didn’t refuse to go into Ukraine, but I doubt he could be considered a volunteer.

What evidence is there that Russian troops are fighting in Ukraine?

The evidence is simple but convincing -- soldiers who have been killed, wounded or captured. I personally talked to the relatives of paratroopers from the 331st regiment of Russia's 98th Guards Airborne Division, who were killed and captured about 20 km [about 12 miles] inside Ukraine. I also spoke to the family of a soldier from the 31st Air Assault Brigade from Ulyanovsk who lost his leg in a fight in Ukraine, and the mother of a soldier from Division 2777 based in Chechnya, who died near the Ukrainian town of Snizhne. Russian officials admitted that troops had been captured, but President Vladimir Putin said they got lost while patrolling the border.

How is this being covered in the Russian media?

Quite poorly. There are not many free media outlets that dare to write about such things. State media only publishes the official version of the events. They tell their audience that Russia is not fighting in Ukraine, that soldiers captured there got lost on the border and that those who were killed have not died because they won't admit these men ever existed.

The independent media do try to present all the evidence they can find. For example, one small regional newspaper called Pskovskaya Guberniya reported on the secret funeral of two paratroopers from the town of Pskov who had been killed in Ukraine. This local newspaper with three staff writers became the first media outlet to prove Russian casualties in this war. The newspaper's website went down within a few hours of publishing the story because of the huge traffic. A few days later the newspaper's publisher Lev Shlosberg was beaten up near his house. He's still in the hospital with a broken nose and serious concussion. He says the attack was revenge for their reporting.

How have Russians reacted to reports of their troops fighting in Ukraine?

Russian society is terribly split. After I reported on the death of a 20-year-old Russian lance sergeant in Ukraine hundreds of people contacted his mother on social media. One-third offered condolences, one-third accused her of lying, and another third, mostly Ukrainians, said he deserved to die for fighting in Ukraine. She was hysterical and I felt terrible -- neither of us expected that level of hatred. Each third reveals something about Russia's reaction. Some people, like myself, feel a mixture of shame, horror, anger, regret and remorse. Some feel pure hatred towards the troops. And others just trust state media and don’t believe its happening at all. I’m afraid the last group is the biggest. But as more and more evidence that Russia is involved in this war comes out, people are beginning the painful process of accepting this. It will not be easy, and it will take us some time to move from denial to understanding, acceptance and regret.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/06/elena-racheva_n_5774138.html

[AkMike]

Many mistakes have been made.

[Boethius]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/08/28/nato-reveals-satellite-images-as-proof-that-russian-troops-have-invaded-ukraine-with-highly-sophisticated-weaponry/

[Boethius]

Have a look at the trucks and tank used by the bespredelshchiki.  Did they materialize from an abandoned coal mine?


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11226324/Ukraine-readies-for-combat-as-Russian-troops-enter-the-country.html

[Boethius]

Videos of captured Russian soldiers (since released by Ukraine) -


http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ac363240-2d06-11e4-911b-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3JPCuO3bX

[Boethius]

Tanks and other military vehicles pouring over the border from Russia into eastern Ukraine. Nightly artillery battles in the region’s biggest city, Donetsk, and reports of fighting around another regional capital. And now, sightings of the “green men,” professional soldiers in green uniforms without insignia, the same type of forces that carried out the invasion of Crimea last spring.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/13/world/europe/ukraine-russia-military-border-nato.html

[AkMike]

Quote from: sleepycat on Today at 10:29:34 PM

I got a good laugh out of hearing Putler wimping out of the G20 early by using the ridiculous excuse of the need for his beauty sleep!

It shows that he is VERY strong and doesn't care

 Or it could show that he was embarrassed about all the other leaders telling him to get out of Ukraine.

 It's hard to hold you head up when you're slinking away, tail between your legs with hurt feelings.

[Doll]

Being a school yard bully isn't being strong. 
 

What country are you talking of?  What is the USA doing in the Middle East ? Bullying

[AkMike]

The US didn't invade Ukraine.. Russia has. Stay on topic if it's not too hard for you.

[Gator]

In another thread I made a comment about the power of denial used by Doll and Russians in general.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=17860.msg381364#msg381364

[Muzh]

In another thread I made a comment about the power of denial used by Doll and Russians in general.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=17860.msg381364#msg381364

I want brain.

[Boethius]

Here is a report on arms the bespredelshchiki have in Donbas.  Note, most could not have been captured from Ukraine, as has been alleged.


http://armamentresearch.com/Uploads/Research%20Report%20No.%203%20-%20Raising%20Red%20Flags.pdf

[AkMike]

Interesting article Boethius!  Thanks

[Gator]

I want brain.

 

Do you realize this is slang for blowjob?  I do not know why you would want a mynet from me.  Sorry to disappoint you but this is something I do not give.   

[Muzh]

Do you realize this is slang for blowjob?  I do not know why you would want a mynet from me.  Sorry to disappoint you but this is something I do not give.   

LMAO


You have a long wait there, my friend.