Culture shock and how to get past it.

[andrewfi]

I was today reading an article about the experiences of a young woman who went to work in Korea that, whilst it is not about a woman from the FSU is very relevant. It was written by an American and so it perhaps puts the issues into sharper perspective than if it was written by a Russian woman. She suffered from the condition known as culture shock.

I was talking recently to a young woman who had just returned from a teaching post in Korea. She said her first months in her job were a nightmare because of the unfamiliarity of everything. It made me wonder how teachers can prepare themselves to cope with culture shock. http://knowhow-now.com/CultureandSociety-article32558-EnglishTeachersAndCultureShock.html

I think this might have some resonance for Doug (Photoguy) and a few others. I know I recognise myself about five years ago.

[Jumper]

good article Andrew , thanks.

yes, i can relate from personal experience two different times,
and also from what my wife experienced.

[PeeWee]

A good article. Something to be aware of with anyone who you might introduce into a new culture. Acclimation would be important. For those who are negatively affected by their new surroundings for a prolonged period of time might just trigger their urge to fly. To escape that which makes them uncomfortable.

Peewee

[BillyB]

If Andrew can admit he was a victim of culture shock, so can I. First week of Army basic training. It was in a World of hurt. But I handled it better than most. I remember the week before Basic training where guys are going through medical exams etc..., many guys bragged they used to be in gangs and the tough life they've lived. A few weeks later into basic training some broke down crying asking me, since I was their squad leader,to ask the drill Sergeant if they could get released from the Army.

Also I was in 4 different schools in from 9th-12th grade since my dad was in the military. At first it was hard to adapt but I did and made new friends and enemies and now I'm grateful I was able to live and travel to many places.

Some people can adapt to new and foreign environments and some can't. It's strange that people 200+ years ago can come to America with a "can do" attitude and start a whole new life from scratch cutting trees with hand saws, leveling earth, planting seeds and building their homes with their own hands but in modern times some people would go into shock and die if the power was cut off since the microwave wouldn't work.

[PeeWee]

If Andrew can admit he was a victim of culture shock, so can I. First week of Army basic training. It was in a World of hurt. But I handled it better than most. I remember the week before Basic training where guys are going through medical exams etc..., many guys bragged they used to be in gangs and the tough life they've lived. A few weeks later into basic training some broke down crying asking me, since I was their squad leader,to ask the drill Sergeant if they could get released from the Army.

Also I was in 4 different schools in from 9th-12th grade since my dad was in the military. At first it was hard to adapt but I did and made new friends and enemies and now I'm grateful I was able to live and travel to many places.

Some people can adapt to new and foreign environments and some can't. It's strange that people 200+ years ago can come to America with a "can do" attitude and start a whole new life from scratch cutting trees with hand saws, leveling earth, planting seeds and building their homes with their own hands but in modern times some people would go into shock and die if the power was cut off since the microwave wouldn't work.

Good to hear that you took the time to serve your contry Billy boy. Thank you for doing that. For some reason I took to the service like the proverbial duck to water. I would have rather been anywhere else but other than that I did not think about it for the 6 years that I endured it. Other people tend to get nervous when they stray too far from their nest.

I have aways admired those foreign women who could pull up stakes and relacate to a new country and make it work. That takes a stong woman, in my mind anyway.

Peewee

[Son of Clyde]

It is all about expectations and whether they are met.

[andrewfi]

It is all about expectations and whether they are met.

No, it is not.

[PeeWee]

No, it is not.

I agree with Clyde but I am curious why you say not. Could you broaden you thoughts on it a bit more?

I had always subscribed to the notion that one should under promise but over deliver. I think some men, in their enthusiasm to win his woman's affection, leans toward the opposite. They over promise and under deliver. When her unrealistic expectations are not realized of course she will be both disappointed and disillusioned. That is why I agree with Clyde the Glide.

Peewee

[Jumper]

peewee/clyde -
i think the important *expectation issue* , is linked ,
but also seperate from culture shock.

For example-
I once worked for two years in the south of Greece in an area with zero english..small village.. truly zero english.
I did study the language before relocation.
i had every expectation it would be far different there, and difficult ..
because of the language barrier and culture.
 My expectations of lifestyle were very realistic for the area and my pay.
and they exceeded my expectation actually.

 I still experienced much of what the article deals with in my first year there.
it lessened rapidly (mostly due to fluency in the language,but also because things became familiar and some good friends )
  and by the time i was to leave, i missed the place terribly, and would still like to live there.

Did you guys read the article?

Although we know on a rational level that we are going to meet unfamiliar routines and customs, emotionally it takes time to adjust and this period of adjustment leads to unexpected reactions. ..............................*snip*............
Typically culture shock moves through different stages, from the initial excitement of the new challenge to a sense of being overwhelmed by all that is unfamiliar, followed by a period when you settle in and gradually take a more balanced view of your new surroundings. The second phase can be very alarming and you may have the sense that you have made a terrible mistake and wish to go home. You will be missing your family and friends, you will long for the foods you can't find in your host country, or your favorite TV program.

some of it *could* have to do with unrealistic expectations,
(and thats certainly an issue that needs to be looked into in this venture)
but honestly the root of the problem is unfamiliarity.
everything is just plain different, even the most mundane of things is different and it can start to bother you.

you can say , "just be a man, suck it up"
and yea people get thru it, its certainly not the end of the world..
at the time i do not think i really even realized it was effecting me as a person that much..
looking back it became clear ,like many things in life.
and like all things in the human condition, it will effect everyone differently,
 and in variuos degrees..

in the case of a RW relocating here, it is truly a very diifferent culture,
it is a permenant relocation, so no light at the end of the tunnel.
(IE: she cant think well i'm just enduring this for 12 months and return home)
so if you see your RW suffereng symptoms similar to those mentioned in the article, at least recognize them for what they likely are?
 or be very aware it can be something as simple as culture shock.

Having been thru it ,, i was expecting it somewhat for my wife,,
but not as deep of level as it became.
she wasnt the same person i met and married for about 6 to 7 months.
It greatly effected her on most every level...
 Then she became more herself again.In fact, in her case it was like a light switch. In most people it would be more gradual i'm sure.

and in some people non-existant..

just my 2 drachma..

[PeeWee]

peewee/clyde -
i think the important *expectation issue* , is linked ,
but also seperate from culture shock.

For example-
I once worked for two years in the south of Greece in an area with zero english..small village.. truly zero english.
I did study the language before relocation.
i had every expectation it would be far different there, and difficult ..
because of the language barrier and culture.
 My expectations of lifestyle were very realistic for the area and my pay.
and they exceeded my expectation actually.

 I still experienced much of what the article deals with in my first year there.
it lessened rapidly (mostly due to fluency in the language,but also because things became familiar and some good friends )
  and by the time i was to leave, i missed the place terribly, and would still like to live there.

Did you guys read the article?

some of it *could* have to do with unrealistic expectations,
(and thats certainly an issue that needs to be looked into in this venture)
but honestly the root of the problem is unfamiliarity.
everything is just plain different, even the most mundane of things is different and it can start to bother you.

you can say , "just be a man, suck it up"
and yea people get thru it, its certainly not the end of the world..
at the time i do not think i really even realized it was effecting me as a person that much..
looking back it became clear ,like many things in life.
and like all things in the human condition, it will effect everyone differently,
 and in variuos degrees..

in the case of a RW relocating here, it is truly a very diifferent culture,
it is a permenant relocation, so no light at the end of the tunnel.
(IE: she cant think well i'm just enduring this for 12 months and return home)
so if you see your RW suffereng symptoms similar to those mentioned in the article, at least recognize them for what they likely are?
 or be very aware it can be something as simple as culture shock.

Having been thru it ,, i was expecting it somewhat for my wife,,
but not as deep of level as it became.
she wasnt the same person i met and married for about 6 to 7 months.
It greatly effected her on most every level...
 Then she became more herself again.In fact, in her case it was like a light switch. In most people it would be more gradual i'm sure.

and in some people non-existant..

just my 2 drachma..

I had not thought about that, AJ. The result of the shock was various illness symptoms. The shock to the body cause a physiologicial reation. I wought what Clyde has said and I took to mean is that if a person is prepared properly or acclimated better to the culture that could provide the shock then the shock might be lessened or even become nonexistant.

I had read one time, and it is so hypothetical that it's not even funny, that if we were able to transport a person from even as recent as 400 or 500 years ago and instantly place them in NY city that the noise, technology, and fast pace of the moment would probably kill them. That would be the ultimate cultural shock. So what I was thinking is that if you took that same person and sent an amount of time with them both educating them and acclimating them then the shock would not kill them. This is what I was thinking when I read Clyde's post.

Peewee

[andrewfi]

Culture shock is not about getting married to some Russian bint. It is not about promises, contracts, offers or their fulfillment or otherwise.

Culture shock is about differences. Not expectations, but differences. Differences in food, differences in body language, differences in personal space, differences in personal hygiene in fact all the things that go to make one culture different to another. It should also be remembered that among the indicators of is exuberance, excessive happiness, in fact, it is usually one of the very first indicators that a person is undergong the process and we all do go through the process, albeit at a different pace. (Take a look at the trip repeorts by those wife hunters who are visiting Russia for the first time - most display the signs of culture shock - even when rewritten! Then look at what is written by those who have revisited, often the same people, look at the differences.)

One can help, as the article I referenced suggests, by being prepared. It is that insight that tells me that women who do not prepare by learning languages, taking appropriate training and by positive questioning are unlikely to succeed. The same insight tells me that guys who do not offer the requisite assistance and do not enforce the standards (accepting lack of language skills being key) are also going to, very likely, fail to maintain the relationship.

But it is not about managing expectations, except in a very minor part. But it is about being aware of the patterns of behaviour and being ready wth the appropriate support, being patient when need be and being appropriately forceful when necessary. Not an easy task for anyone, not least an ordinary American unused to travel and with little experience of a cross cultural environment.
As the article suggests, maintaining and encouraging contact with the home environment is important. I am sure that its lack is the reason for many people going home and is why it is foolhardy for guys to try to mediate/limit their fiancee's communication, whether with her home country, or local kinsfolk. Give her a phone, tell her to go and burn some dollars, let her talk!
The stresses of being American, Estonian, Finnish, French, Chinese, whatever, when one is not from any of those cultures can be fierce. Of course many Americans and Europeans who have 'travelled' have been fortunate enough to travel in the bubble of their transplanted expat community, be it commercial or martial.
The experience for those people is very different to that of a poor woman, unprepared without a safety net going to live with a stranger, in a stranger's house, in a strange land with no support.
For the bubble traveller/liver, local culture is often reduced to the level of a curiosity; differences ameliorated by the intermediation of local support staff and the application of large amounts of money, but even for those lucky ones, it is often reckoned that it takes about 12 months for a new arrival into a business to become economically positively productive. A whole year for a person prepared, carefully (?) selected and given huge support and something like 70% of all first time US business overseas postings are rated as full or partial failures...

No, this is not about fulfilling expectations!

[PeeWee]

it would seem to me, Andrew, that if a human has reasonable expected something prior to acutally experienceing it, a culture for example, then they could be shocked when that expectation was exceeded.

If I were to tell you, a 70 year old African woman, and a  5 years old child that we were all going to board a helocopter and fly to a ship in the sunny Med. where we would then take a sea cruise. Your expection level would be established. You would be looking forward to the trip. The African
woman would have no idea what the trip was about, and the child would probably not care.

We all arrive on the flight deck of the USS Baberaham Lincoln, step from the chopper, and all hell breaks loose. You were expecting a ocean voyage and, yes, that is what it is. But our party of three was so ill prepared for the extreem heat that was now radiating from the flight deck, so hot in fact that your loafer feeling like they are on fire, the humidity of the Med, the noise that is so loud that your ears intermitantly loose audibility, and your eyes instantly begin to water, this bluring  your vision, from the jet fuel fumes, and the rapid movement of large and loud machinery all but unnerves you.

I know that  you would *snip* your pants, the old woman's heart would probably fail, literally, she was frightened to death, and the child would go berzerk. All because you were not adequately given the proper level of expectations. You were thrust into a culture that your senses could not handle and  you, by *snip*ting yourself, experienced a form of cultural shock, as did the woman and child. But had you been given more information or even some of the training that the ship's crew had been given you would all three survived this ordeal.

I hope this better explains my point of view...in this regard I still agree with Clyde.

Peewee

[andrewfi]

Peewee ~ go read a book. There may be times when ignorant supposition is a worthwhile technique for problem analysis, but most of the time it really is not so.
As I noted and the article I referenced pointed out expectations are a part of the whole issue. But only a small part. Now, you are, if you find sombody, going to have to face those same issues. There are people here and experts in the field who will tell you the same things. Discovering that you were wrong 10 weeks after your new inamorata lands in her new 'home' will not be, I am sure what you want to happen. Manage your expectations and take the opportunity to learn a little.

[BC]

I have been an expat all my life, lived in different countries, adjusted well in each and even learned a few languages and culture along with it.  We were however surrounded by our own culture even though my parents insisted on living with the locals and not in expat enclaves.  Schools, entertainment, sports etc were all within my own cultural bounds.  Family, friends, schoolmates were all with me all along the way.

These experiences as a child and through my teen years did give me enough exposure to other cultures and languages in an easy way, slow enough that I could keep up and even learn to enjoy the experiences.  I now live comfortably in a 'foreign' environment and can feel quite 'at home' wherever that may be.

Even though I could somewhat 'relate' to the adjustment period my wife went through it was still very difficult. I remember being at her home in RU packing suitcases with her. Had I not been there I really don't know if she would have finished herself.  Not because she did not want to be with me or move to our new home, but that the emotions involved in leaving her home for the unknown -permanently- were so overwhelming. 

Unlike myself she was thrown into the waters. No friends, no companions, no enclave of culturally like-minded souls to spend time with.  Her expectations were probably well fullfilled as I had promised very little.  I was there for her 24/7.. thanks to my home-bound business this was possible. The first year was a mix of bliss and unpredictable bouts of hell.  I remember jb stating on the 'other' board "You need to have the patience of a Saint.." what an understatement.

Things are going very well and she does consider our home to be truly 'home' now... but it took a heck of a lot of patience for us to get this far.  Frequent trips back, telephone bills that made telecom shareholders very happy and a few visits by the in-laws here.  It may sound like a lot, but all-in-all she has accomplished as much in 3 years that took me tens of years to accomplish.

Andrew is right it's not about expectations.

We eat Russian food, watch Russian TV, have a curio cabnet facing east with Icons and memoirs, speak Russian among other languages at home, have WM/RU couples as good friends and have even attended RU Orthodox services here.  In addition we are well accepted within our adoptive community.

I think KenC said in another thread something like 'You can get the woman out of Russia but you can't get Russia out of the woman' or something similar.. I agree fully. 

Had I tried I would have failed miserably.

Call me a wuss, puss or whatever else you want but please add happy- as prefix.   

My wife and kids are in RU now on vacation.. I'll probably join on later, but before she left she prepared 500 pelmeni so that I would not starve.. - That's Love!! 

 

[PeeWee]

Peewee ~ go read a book. There may be times when ignorant supposition is a worthwhile technique for problem analysis, but most of the time it really is not so.
As I noted and the article I referenced pointed out expectations are a part of the whole issue. But only a small part. Now, you are, if you find sombody, going to have to face those same issues. There are people here and experts in the field who will tell you the same things. Discovering that you were wrong 10 weeks after your new inamorata lands in her new 'home' will not be, I am sure what you want to happen. Manage your expectations and take the opportunity to learn a little.

What? I seems that you just said what I said. Not everyone will experience culture shock and the article did not say what percent would. We could be talking of not more than 10% of the total involved. If so then the article really does not have too much bearing on the majority of us. I think if two different RW are planning on living in the US and one has been here at least once to experience our culture and as a result her expectations are different than another woman's is then the woman who expecting something different may be shocked, may be not. This is a very relevant example, I think.

We might be discussing something that will effect very few people. Certianly something to be aware of but not to worry about. If you what to expect you probably will not be shocked by it. The reaction to the culture, or the shock, is so individual that it could be as remote as someone getting struck by lightning. How do we know for sure?

Peewee

[PeeWee]

Geez, Andrew, read your own article. "Proper preparation before you leave for the new country is vital too. Get up to speed on the essential information about the place: its customs, food, religion, all the systems you will need to have contact with such as education, health-care, driving regulations. Do your very best to learn at least a little of the language and try out some of the typical food before you go."

To me, this says that you might want to try to manage your expectations by better preparing yourself for the cultural shock that you "might" incure. I am going to relocate to a new country. After reading Andrew's excellent article if might "expect" (expectation) to experience cultural shock. I  had better prepare for this in some way (manage my expection) by reading everthing I can about my new home.

It seems pretty clear to me that expectations and the preparation involved is very important to the avoidance of the dreaded "cultural shock."

Peewee

[Jumper]

We might be discussing something that will effect very few people

that reminds me of -
did i shot 5 or 6 times? you feeling lucky punk?

i know a fair amount of WM/RW couples..
a small sample group sure??

but BC's
 *days of bliss/with bouts of hell*
 seems fairly   representative of what the vast majority go thru initially.

the duration, and the depth,  is more varied and something to be unsure of ,

rather  than the fact of a few missing out on the experience altoghther
(i've only known one case)
you both just likely wouldnt be that lucky.
play the lotto, or indeed count on a lighting strike.

Since us GOM have been accused of not sharing details -

During this initail time, when she certainly wasnt herself-

I used to *joke* with my wife..
hows the weather today sweetheart??
Mostly  grumpy , with a chance of afternoon crabbiness ?

 Tell that to an already  *bent*  RW ..
yes i'm much braver than your average fool.(or just a fool)
and will tread where angels fear to fly


before people make weird assumptions, yes i was extremly patient during this adjustment period, my wife admits i have the patience of job.
its just i'm not beyond poking fiun at a situation when it gets beyond ridiculas,and she knew well my sarcasm was meant in a good natured way.

two very important things needed by both people in this venture?
Patience
Since of humor / willingness to laugh at what life throws at you

[PeeWee]

that reminds me of -
did i shot 5 or 6 times? you feeling lucky punk?

i know a fair amount of WM/RW couples..
a small sample group sure??

but BC's
 *days of bliss/with bouts of hell*
 seems fairly   representative of what the vast majority go thru initially.

the duration, and the depth,  is more varied and something to be unsure of ,

rather  than the fact of a few missing out on the experience altoghther
(i've only known one case)
you both just likely wouldnt be that lucky.
play the lotto, or indeed count on a lighting strike.

Since us GOM have been accused of not sharing details -

During this initail time, when she certainly wasnt herself-

I used to *joke* with my wife..
hows the weather today sweetheart??
Mostly  grumpy , with a chance of afternoon crabbiness ?

 Tell that to an already  *bent*  RW ..
yes i'm much braver than your average fool.(or just a fool)
and will tread where angels fear to fly


before people make weird assumptions, yes i was extremly patient during this adjustment period, my wife admits i have the patience of job.
its just i'm not beyond poking fiun at a situation when it gets beyond ridiculas,and she knew well my sarcasm was meant in a good natured way.

two very important things needed by both people in this venture?
Patience
Since of humor / willingness to laugh at what life throws at you

Seems to me, AJ, that when little Peewee first arrived home from the hospital both of his parents went through the same thing as the little fellow experienced his bout with culture shock. We were not so very suprised by it and we both survived it. Same with getting a new puppy or kitten used to you and your way of life. There will be a period of adjustment and training to be sure. But once again you deal with it, you accept it, and you move on.

Peewee