mental disorders?

[Miquel Westano]

I read a post on here that said 70% of men seeking foreign brides had mental illness and 30% of the women did. 

I am curious if there is an actual scientific study referenced, or if this is one of those things just repeated so often it is accepted as truth?  Also does anyone know what they would consider mental illness?  I mean is one bout of depression enough to be considered mentally ill?  Do you need to be a full blown paranoid schizophrenic?  Does it need to be adjudicated in court or just diagnosed by a doctor?  Are these illnesses diagnosed before the marriage or after the divorce?  Is this in any way based on charges made during the divorce proceedings? 

I am also curious how this compares to the general male and female population.  And, if it significantly varies from the non foreign marriage numbers.  If 30% of women and 70% of men in general who married are judged mentally ill, then it would be reasonable to expect that in FSU pursuits as well. 

I see all these numbers about divorce among men who marry foreign brides, but when you compare them to marriages in the USA between two divorced American born people, I notice the foreign marriages compare favorably despite how the folks touting the stats try to make it sound.

[Slumba]

I read a post on here that said 70% of men seeking foreign brides had mental illness and 30% of the women did. 

I am not aware of any research about it.  Probably the result of a fevered mind - but I would need to see a recent photo of the poster in question, before being able to give a full medical diagnosis.

[Boethius]

Read this forum long enough, and you will come to your own conclusions.
 
It ain't pretty.

[Doll]

It ain't pretty.

[Boethius]

What's the clue bat for?  It's a colloquialism.

[Steamer]

****ALERT***ALERT****ALERT***ALERT**** THIS IS ONLY AN OPINION***ALERT***ALERT***ALERT***ALERT****


Based on my observations.


I think the 70%-30% numbers are WAY too high. More like 10%-5%. Everyone has some quirks. How horrible would it be if people all walked around with a poker face speaking in a monotone?

[alex330]

I read a post on here that said 70% of men seeking foreign brides had mental illness and 30% of the women did. 

I am curious if there is an actual scientific study referenced, or if this is one of those things just repeated so often it is accepted as truth?  Also does anyone know what they would consider mental illness?  I mean is one bout of depression enough to be considered mentally ill?  Do you need to be a full blown paranoid schizophrenic?  Does it need to be adjudicated in court or just diagnosed by a doctor?  Are these illnesses diagnosed before the marriage or after the divorce?  Is this in any way based on charges made during the divorce proceedings? 

A possibility if they use a broad definition of mental illness. According to NIMH 18% of adults have some form of mental illness. If they include depression at any point in one's life, PTSD, and substance abuse it could hold some truth.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/prevalence/any-mental-illness-ami-among-adults.shtml

[Bee Farmer]

I read a post on here that said 70% of men seeking foreign brides had mental illness and 30% of the women did.

I think you will find the post actually said that it was estimated that 70% of the men, and 30% of the women had some kind of mental illness.  It was in an article I read a few years ago.

A quick google search turned up this study of mental illness in Asian brides.
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-244X/11/4

I think the 70%-30% numbers are WAY too high. More like 10%-5%.

When you consider that 26% of Americans are estimated to have a mental illness within the previous 12 months, it seems very unlikely that the men seeking foreign marriages would be below average.  After all, being mentally ill may be a significant reason the men aren't able to find a relationship in their home country.  It's easier to hide a mental illness when you are in a long distance relationship.

US mental health studies

Previous widely cited large-scale surveys in the US were the Epidemiological Catchment Area (ECA) survey and subsequent National Comorbidity Survey (NCS). The NCS was replicated and updated between 2000 and 2003 and indicated that, of those groups of disorders assessed, nearly half of Americans (46.4%) reported meeting criteria at some point in their life for either a DSM-IV anxiety disorder (28.8%), mood disorder (20.8%), impulse-control disorder (24.8%) or substance use disorders (14.6%). Half of all lifetime cases had started by age 14 and 3/4 by age 24.[11]

In the prior 12-month period only, around a quarter (26.2%) met criteria for any disorder—anxiety disorders 18.1%; mood disorders 9.5%; impulse control disorders 8.9%; and substance use disorders 3.8%. A substantial minority (23%) met criteria for more than two disorders. 22.3% of cases were classed as serious, 37.3% as moderate and 40.4% as mild.[12][13]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_mental_disorders

I see all these numbers about divorce among men who marry foreign brides, but when you compare them to marriages in the USA between two divorced American born people, I notice the foreign marriages compare favorably despite how the folks touting the stats try to make it sound.

When you look at studies of divorce rates for foreign marriages, an important factor to consider is that most of the reported studies only looked at the divorce rate after 5 years.

Read this forum long enough, and you will come to your own conclusions.
 
It ain't pretty.

I agree with you.  There are a lot of posters that give you the vibes that something just isn't quite right.

[Steamer]

When you consider that 26% of Americans are estimated to have a mental illness within the previous 12 months, it seems very unlikely that the men seeking foreign marriages would be below average.  After all, being mentally ill may be a significant reason the men aren't able to find a relationship in their home country.  It's easier to hide a mental illness when you are in a long distance relationship.

Define mental illness then. It seems that a lot of common everyday blues are probably getting lumped together in this.

[Miquel Westano]

I think you will find the post actually said that it was estimated that 70% of the men, and 30% of the women had some kind of mental illness.  It was in an article I read a few years ago.

A quick google search turned up this study of mental illness in Asian brides.
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-244X/11/4

When you consider that 26% of Americans are estimated to have a mental illness within the previous 12 months, it seems very unlikely that the men seeking foreign marriages would be below average.  After all, being mentally ill may be a significant reason the men aren't able to find a relationship in their home country.  It's easier to hide a mental illness when you are in a long distance relationship.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_mental_disorders

When you look at studies of divorce rates for foreign marriages, an important factor to consider is that most of the reported studies only looked at the divorce rate after 5 years.

I agree with you.  There are a lot of posters that give you the vibes that something just isn't quite right.

Uh huh,   

First, a quick Google doesn't bring up squat about 70%, 30% or any other percentage.  See, I already tried Google to determine where this number comes from.  Either I don't know how to Google or we get kind of an abbreviated version here in the sticks of Missouri.

But I do love to learn and would like to know where that percentage statistic came from.  Now while you did say it was estimated, you still threw out those numbers to defend your comment of calling people who seek love overseas, dregs of society.  I just want to see the study and the basis for those estimates.  Who knows?  Maybe it is true, but I doubt it.

On the other hand.  The link you put up spits out this pabulum for it's conclusion:

In conclusion, we have obtained a better understanding of the mental health status of female foreign spouses in transnational marriages, who face many difficulties. Indonesian or Vietnamese spouses tend to more likely degree in mental health care needs than Chinese spouses, and then indirectly influenced their mental health status. Some individuals with a neurotic personality are exposed to high risk and might suffer from mild psychiatric symptoms. The needs for psychological counseling and religion therapy were the first priority for these women, particularly the Indonesian and Vietnamese spouses. From these findings, we have a better understanding of how to assist these female foreign spouses in future.

I don't see any percentages listed, any reference to men at all, any references to FSU or American participants and a lot of hedge words like might, tend to, and some.  In addition to me the wording and writing tend to be less than stellar and I wonder about the level of subject knowledge the writer has.  But I am no literary master either.

This is hardly the kind of article I would call documentation of the implications you made.  It certainly doesn't support the 70% or 30% figure.  Also to me mental illness actually doesn't conjure images of dregs anyway.  I mean truthfully two people suffering depression or anxiety getting together to support each other doesn't sound like the USS Dreg setting sail.  It sounds like maybe they might help each other.   

Now unlike you and some others on here, I am not particularly educated or even very smart.  So help a dumb hillbilly out and see if you can run down that article you read.  If you found it once, I am sure you could find it again.

[BillyB]

I read a post on here that said 70% of men seeking foreign brides had mental illness and 30% of the women did. 

I am curious if there is an actual scientific study referenced, or if this is one of those things just repeated so often it is accepted as truth?

A few years ago I was abducted by aliens and they did some experiments on me yet the last visit to my doctor left me with a clean bill of health so I'm one of the normal guys around here.

Read this forum long enough, and you will come to your own conclusions.
 
It ain't pretty.

Due to my superior intelligence, I sometimes feel I'm surrounded by idiots here. Anybody else feel the same way? It's much easier to look at other people's problems than our own. That could be one of the problems around here.

[Bee Farmer]

Now while you did say it was estimated, you still threw out those numbers to defend your comment of calling people who seek love overseas, dregs of society.

I think you need to go back and read what I actually wrote, because it appears that you misunderstood what I wrote.  My reference to dregs of society encompassed far more than mental illness.

I just want to see the study and the basis for those estimates.  Who knows?  Maybe it is true, but I doubt it.

I'm not aware that I cited any study.  I mentioned an article I had read.  I recall that I had chatted with Irina in Odessa about it.  (I don't recall if I showed her the article, or if she showed it to me.  That may help you find it.)

Feel free to believe or disbelieve it.  There's a lot of fat, bald, broke 60 and 70 year old men who believe there is a 20-something smokinghotkova ready to marry them too.  Those men doubt anyone who says it just ain't so.

When you consider that 1/4 of people walking around have a mental illness, it's not difficult to make the inference that folks with mental issues may have difficulties in relationships, and they just might gravitate to looking for relationships where it would be easier for them to hide their mental issues...such as international relationships.  I don't believe 70% is implausible.

The link you put up spits out this pabulum for it's conclusion:

That link also suggested that about 35% of the women had some kind of psychological distress or mental issue.

I don't see any percentages listed, any reference to men at all, any references to FSU or American participants and a lot of hedge words like might, tend to, and some.

I'm not aware that anyone claimed that it did.

Also to me mental illness actually doesn't conjure images of dregs anyway.

Perhaps we have differing opinions of what the dregs of society are.

I certainly do not consider divorcees, overweight or obese, mentally ill, social misfits, alcoholics or substance abusers, playboys, sex tourists, etc. to be top quality individuals for marriage.  While not everyone pursuing a foreign relationship meets this description, it does describe a large portion of the men involved.

If you've ever had the fortune to meet the true, rare top quality kind of individuals, you realize that almost everyone else is lacking.  You realize just how good good is, and everyone else is just...inadequate dregs.

So help a dumb hillbilly out and see if you can run down that article you read.  If you found it once, I am sure you could find it again.

I have absolutely no obligation to do this to satisfy your curiosity, and it is inappropriate for you to suggest that I should.  Do your own due diligence.

A few years ago I was abducted by aliens and they did some experiments on me

An interesting thing...

The true "walk the walk" Christians never get abducted by aliens.  Some "talk the talk" Christians occasionally do, but the walk the walk true believer Christians don't get abducted by aliens.

Interesting, isn't it?

[Slumba]

Bee Farmer, maybe you could a Youtube series on your thoughts!  Be sure to sign up for revenue sharing (where Youtube pays you after X number of views)... you are the funniest guy on the forum 

[Miquel Westano]

I think you need to go back and read what I actually wrote, because it appears that you misunderstood what I wrote.  My reference to dregs of society encompassed far more than mental illness.

I'm not aware that I cited any study.  I mentioned an article I had read.  I recall that I had chatted with Irina in Odessa about it.  (I don't recall if I showed her the article, or if she showed it to me.  That may help you find it.)

Feel free to believe or disbelieve it.  There's a lot of fat, bald, broke 60 and 70 year old men who believe there is a 20-something smokinghotkova ready to marry them too.  Those men doubt anyone who says it just ain't so.

When you consider that 1/4 of people walking around have a mental illness, it's not difficult to make the inference that folks with mental issues may have difficulties in relationships, and they just might gravitate to looking for relationships where it would be easier for them to hide their mental issues...such as international relationships.  I don't believe 70% is implausible.

That link also suggested that about 35% of the women had some kind of psychological distress or mental issue.

I'm not aware that anyone claimed that it did.

Perhaps we have differing opinions of what the dregs of society are.

I certainly do not consider divorcees, overweight or obese, mentally ill, social misfits, alcoholics or substance abusers, playboys, sex tourists, etc. to be top quality individuals for marriage.  While not everyone pursuing a foreign relationship meets this description, it does describe a large portion of the men involved.

If you've ever had the fortune to meet the true, rare top quality kind of individuals, you realize that almost everyone else is lacking.  You realize just how good good is, and everyone else is just...inadequate dregs.

I have absolutely no obligation to do this to satisfy your curiosity, and it is inappropriate for you to suggest that I should.  Do your own due diligence.

An interesting thing...

The true "walk the walk" Christians never get abducted by aliens.  Some "talk the talk" Christians occasionally do, but the walk the walk true believer Christians don't get abducted by aliens.

Interesting, isn't it?

Sorry, I did not mean to put you on the defensive.  You just threw some percentages out there and then alluded to an article you read citing them.  Generally any credible article making statistical claims has some reference backing up these claims.  Normally that is some form of study or test.  I assumed since you cited this article you had read it thoroughly enough to determine if it had any credibility.  My fault and I will not make the mistake again of assuming you attempt to verify statistics before you repeat them.

Being overweight, balding or delusional about a woman's interest in you would hardly qualify as mental illness.  That seems more a spiteful assessment based on your own dissatisfaction with yourself and/or your own lot in life.  Do you agree?

While you may make assumptions that 25% of something can easily morph into 70%, I tend to think 25% of something more often translates into 25% of something else.  Unless you assume that foreign women are a cause of metal illness.  If you think that, why are you searching for one?  It would seem to me if 25% of the general male population is mentally ill, a number I do not believe, then 25% of the men looking for a foreign bride would be mentally ill rather than 70%.

We clearly have a differing definition of dregs.  You seem to cast a pretty wide net when you define them.  I would love to meet you and some of your top level acquaintances, but it sounds like I would be unwelcome in your circles.  I am impressed you fit in so well with these people.  I am truly envious of your status as a top level man since I am a big more dreggish.  Is that a word?  Hmm, probably not.

Lastly my friend, you misunderstood my plea for help and took it as a demand or challenge.  I did not imply in any way you were obligated to help me find this source.  I just asked you to.  I assumed if you had found it once, you could find it again.  I will continue to look for it on my own.  I suspect if will come down to one of those, "they say" things so often bantered around online with no real evidence or substance.

I am done with this one, and you may rest assured I will not ask you for any research assistance in the future.  I did not realize it was impertinent of me to do so.  Again you have my sincerest apology.  I wish you well in your future endeavors to find a suitable bride up to your exacting standards.  I am sure there is a woman out there who is exactly what you deserve.  I hope you find her.

[cc3]

 


                                 

[Noch1]

45% of people are nuts, 45% are crazy.
The other 10% are the ones who really scare me

[Bee Farmer]

Being overweight, balding or delusional about a woman's interest in you would hardly qualify as mental illness. 

I'm not aware anyone has alleged these are signs of mental illness.  Overweight or obese would fall into the dregs category though.

That seems more a spiteful assessment based on your own dissatisfaction with yourself and/or your own lot in life.  Do you agree?

No.  This seems to be a situation of you having difficulty comprehending what was written.

While you may make assumptions that 25% of something can easily morph into 70%, I tend to think 25% of something more often translates into 25% of something else.  Unless you assume that foreign women are a cause of metal illness.  If you think that, why are you searching for one?  It would seem to me if 25% of the general male population is mentally ill, a number I do not believe, then 25% of the men looking for a foreign bride would be mentally ill rather than 70%.

Let's not forget what happens when someone ASSumes, and you are making a lot of assumptions.

In theory, there would be equal distributions in all walks of life.  In reality though, we know that prison populations and homeless people have high percentages of mental illness.  Heck, the personality type ENFP is only something like 5% of the population, but they are the most common personality type among homeless people.

It's a reasonable inference that people with mental illnesses will have difficulties in relationships.  As such, single people will have higher rates of mental illness than people in relationships.  When you observe the men who go looking for  FSU girl, and read the posts on forums made by these men, 70% rate of mental illness does not seem unreasonable.

We clearly have a differing definition of dregs.  You seem to cast a pretty wide net when you define them. 

Anything less than the very top quality individuals are...lacking.  Compared to them, everyone else seems like dregs.

I am truly envious of your status as a top level man

I have my flaws, but I strive to be a better person.  I don't try to be average, or try to excuse bad behavior as being acceptable because others do it too.  I believe that God will judge me based upon what I did, and not how I compare to other people.

If you like studies so much, maybe you should read up on the studies about mail order brides, and the people who get involved in these relationships.  One of the top things men are looking for, is a wife they can control.  (easy to find with google)  Does that sound like a healthy relationship?  A primary motivation for men seeking foreign wives is wanting someone they can control.  Is it any wonder so many marriages fall apart once the lady gets situated?

[Miquel Westano]

Like I said earlier, I am done arguing this one.  But just so you know where I got the idea you were talking mental illness with regard to overweight, balding and delusional it was here when you said:

"I'm not aware that I cited any study.  I mentioned an article I had read.  I recall that I had chatted with Irina in Odessa about it.  (I don't recall if I showed her the article, or if she showed it to me.  That may help you find it.)

Feel free to believe or disbelieve it.  There's a lot of fat, bald, broke 60 and 70 year old men who believe there is a 20-something smokinghotkova ready to marry them too.  Those men doubt anyone who says it just ain't so.

When you consider that 1/4 of people walking around have a mental illness, it's not difficult to make the inference that folks with mental issues may have difficulties in relationships, and they just might gravitate to looking for relationships where it would be easier for them to hide their mental issues...such as international relationships.  I don't believe 70% is implausible.

That link also suggested that about 35% of the women had some kind of psychological distress or mental issue."

it all kind of ran together with the title of the thread which was mental disorders.  So I guess I was confused.  Like I said, I will catch up with you on another topic.  I get tired of arguing fairly quickly and find it is easier to just move on than keep pounding my head against a wall.   

[2tallbill]

I read a post on here that said 70% of men seeking foreign brides had mental illness and 30% of the women did. 

You probably should have linked to the post.

I can assure you that the numbers are far less, even if you take the keyboard Romeos
into account.

Elena of Elena's models did say this.

"Virtually all men who come to marriage agencies, are experiencing some difficulty in communicating with the opposite sex (this does not mean he has mental defects, just
that these men are more shy)."

 http://www.zamuzh.com/book/photos/next3.htm

[Miquel Westano]

You probably should have linked to the post.

I can assure you that the numbers are far less, even if you take the keyboard Romeos
into account.

Elena of Elena's models did say this.

"Virtually all men who come to marriage agencies, are experiencing some difficulty in communicating with the opposite sex (this does not mean he has mental defects, just
that these men are more shy)."

 http://www.zamuzh.com/book/photos/next3.htm

I will try to remember to link things.  Also I am trying to figure out these quotes and how to multi quote.  I really enjoy this site and I enjoyed looking at your photos and reading your travel stories.  Some of the food photos were almost enough to get me to travel.  Man some of that stuff looked good.

[SANDRO43]

Also I am trying to figure out these quotes and how to multi quote.

Not too difficult, once you get the hang of it .

Suppose you are writing a post, and want to quote another post inside it:

- From the same RWD board: just scroll down the page(s) until you locate it, then press "Insert Quote" at top right.

- From a different RWD board: navigate RWD until you locate it, then press "Insert Quote".

In both cases, after pressing "Insert Quote" you'll be led back automatically to the page where you are writing your post. You can repeat this any number of times.

Caution: "Insert Quote" will incorporate the WHOLE post, so you may want to edit out (highlight/cut) any unncecessary parts from it - thereby saving RWD some disk space, too .

The alternative is again to navigate out, but use highlight/copy then scroll BACK the necessary number of pages until you are again at your post, where you can paste the copied part.

[jone]

You probably should have linked to the post.

I can assure you that the numbers are far less, even if you take the keyboard Romeos
into account.

Elena of Elena's models did say this.

"Virtually all men who come to marriage agencies, are experiencing some difficulty in communicating with the opposite sex (this does not mean he has mental defects, just
that these men are more shy)."

 http://www.zamuzh.com/book/photos/next3.htm

Elena Petrova said that so that women would consider men to be shy and act a little more outgoing than they might otherwise.

The reality is that men who wind up going overseas are actually more outgoing and adventurous than the typical couch potato. 

[Miquel Westano]

Elena Petrova said that so that women would consider men to be shy and act a little more outgoing than they might otherwise.

The reality is that men who wind up going overseas are actually more outgoing and adventurous than the typical couch potato.

I would agree they probably are more adventurous and probably more outgoing in traditional endeavors, but I'll bet some of them may be more shy around women than the average guy.  I have a friend who would go to California to climb mountains, he would hang glide and parasail at the local lake.  But he was scared to ask girls out.  His wife had to ask him out years ago and finally tell him if he proposed she would say yes before he would do it.  Even then he was scared to death.  They have been happily married for over twenty years.

But he would fight a grizzly bear to protect her, their kids or himself.  He is not a coward or timid in most things, just socially with women.  Even now he can't speak in public.  I guess different things scare different people.  I am not scared of social interaction, but I would never hang glide or parachute.  I am a white knuckle flyer in a commercial jet.  I guess that's what makes the world go around.

[southernX]

bee farmer
A quick google search turned up this study of mental illness in Asian brides.
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-244X/11/4


Background

The aim of this study was to investigate the mental health status, and the risk factors associated with mild psychiatric disorders, of female foreign spouses (from Vietnam, Indonesia, and mainland China) in southern Taiwan, and to understand the mental health needs of these women.

Conclusions

According to Helman [4], "culture is a set of guidelines which individuals inherit as members of a particular society, and which tells them how to view the world, how to experience it emotionally, and how to behave in it in relation to other people, to supernatural forces or gods, and to the natural environment" (p. 2). The context of culture comprises historical, economic, social, political, and geographical elements. Thus, people from different countries can have different cultural backgrounds that cause them to think, experience life, and behave differently. As a result, a move to another country is an important event for people, and can alter their life dramatically.
Transnational marriages have become a popular social phenomenon. Several issues arise in association with transnational marriage. The need to adjust to an alien culture causes female foreign spouses to suffer from more pressures and conflicts than local mothers. A previous study showed that foreign-born mothers, especially those who could not speak the local language, had higher levels of depression and anxiety than native-born mothers [32]. In the same study, the researchers also found that children of native-born mothers performed better in developmental evaluations than those of foreign-born mothers.
As a result of "mail-order" marriages and unskilled migration, the above study reported an unmet need for social and economic security to ensure safe maternal practices and to reduce the challenges that face immigrant women in Southeast Asia countries. This paper seeks to fill that gap in documentation. A review article concluded that the transition to motherhood is an overwhelming experience. At present, "mail-order" brides from Southeast Asia make up the majority of transnational marriages. Furthermore, it has been documented that immigrant wives from Southeast Asia generally become pregnant soon after settling in Taiwan. The challenges of new motherhood are compounded, therefore, by the difficulties involved in adapting to both a new marriage and a new culture.
 

bee farmer , did you read your own link mate??

this was aimed at studying these ladys after they had moved , the impact the result of a cross cultural move had on them and the support they might need etc


personally i dont know any old fat bald men who have married internationaly to fsu ladys ,with large age gaps etc 
 my experience with others who have done this to date does not match this stereotype or the picture you are trying to paint ,
but hey im am in  australia lol

SX

[2tallbill]

Elena Petrova said that so that women would consider men to be shy and act a little more outgoing than they might otherwise.

The reality is that men who wind up going overseas are actually more outgoing and adventurous than the typical couch potato.

I agree,

Elena's, advice must be taken with at least a small measure of salt, understanding who
she is giving the advice to, how she makes her money and what her goals are. Much of
what Elena says is decent advice.