Hello

[Eximio]

Hi everyone.  I'm landed in this forum, read parts of it, and thought it might be helpful.  I also think I might be able to help others.

I got tired of American women and culture and started to search in multiple countries overseas.  This was easy for me to do because I travel extensively for work.  In general, I don't think of myself as conservative or traditional, but rather practical and realistic.  Men and women are different and I don't want to waste time or energy dealing with a woman that fights that most basic aspect of our natures.  Since just about all the messaging in the US and Western Europe runs contrary to these basic facts of life, it became obvious to me that I had to abandon my home country in my search for a love and domestic happiness.

I have had relationships in Latin America, the Philippines, and Ukraine as a result.  Latin America is pretty easy to navigate though it is hard to find women that I find attractive (per my tastes).  The women in the Philippines are the most nice, most genuine, easiest to get along with, most humble - there are many wonderful characteristics about Filipinas.  However, I am just not attracted to them.  Believe me, I tried!

In terms of finding what I was looking for, Ukraine has been the best.  I have not tried Russian women from Russia, but did date a Russian immigrant to Canada for a while. 

So, all this adventure has resulted in my being in a relationship with a Ukrainian woman.  This relationship has many good aspects, but also some difficult aspects.  That is to be expected, though I am finding the difficulties to be rather hard.  I'm here to see if perhaps these issues are the same that others have run into, are perhaps cultural, and perhaps have solutions.  Or maybe the issues are simply this particular woman's personality.

Good luck to all of you and I am looking forward to sharing ideas and experiences.

[BillyB]

Welcome to the forum. What are the issues you're dealing with in your relationship? They can be cultural and individual. Some of the issues may be your own if you're not tolerant and patient. Over time issues will disappear if you both work at and in turn you'll become comfortable living together.

[2tallbill]

Hi everyone.  I'm landed in this forum, read parts of it, and thought it might be helpful.  I also think I might be able to help others.

Good luck to all of you and I am looking forward to sharing ideas and experiences.

Welcome to the forum!

[Gator]

Welcome Eximio.  I wish your relationship with your UW blossoms into what you seek. 

There have been thousands on men to come through RWD.  And many of them have complained about American women.   The experienced men at RWD are skeptical of men who eliminate their peer women in their home country and turn to the FSU thinking it will be better.

Yes, the FSUW are beautiful, and one can date out of one's league.  Yet, I feel the issues that inhibited an enduring, loving relationship in America can easily resurface with a FSUW. 

Why?  There are some cultural differences about FSUW, yet peel the layers back and FSUW think much the same as AW, especially after living here for years. 

After admitting I am skeptical, please share some issues you are experiencing with your UW.  Perhaps you indeed have encountered  something that is based in cultural difference.  One common piece of advice we give is, "Do  not dismiss bad behavior as cultural differences."   

Or perhaps your issue is  the individual uniqueness of your UW.  Individual UW have broadly varying attitudes, values, and goals. 

Or perhaps it is you. 

We will do our best to help you.  Keep in mind we are not good at sugar coating.  And you will receive diverse if not conflicting opinions.  Because you know yourself best and your UW best, only you can sort through the diverse opinions and do what is best for you. 

[Eximio]

"What are the issues you're dealing with in your relationship? They can be cultural and individual. Some of the issues may be your own if you're not tolerant and patient." - BillyB
And to respond to Gator.
(New here, so have not figure out how to copy like you guys do, will learn).

Let me start by saying there are a lot of positive things.  I get the impression that my UW is incredibly loyal.  I don't think that can be faked.  She is really, really cute.  Beautiful in some senses, but not the knock-out beautiful some of you might prefer.  But, that doesn't matter, because I think she is beautiful.

I'm fortunate, because her English is very good.  She has a lot of the qualities I hear about here - she is very resourceful and I am often amazed at how she can thread the needle to figure out how to get something done.  I don't doubt that she wants to please me.  And I want to please her.  So, a lot of good here.

Yes, some of the issues are most likely me. I am used to spending a lot of time on my own.  I don't think I lack tolerance, however, as I conduct most of my business overseas.  I'm pretty open and don't judge.

So, to the issues:  She is very jealous and suspicious.  Yes, it's somewhat good that she is jealous, because it means she wants me to herself.  But these things can go over board, especially when tied to being constantly suspicious.  She often seems convinced that I have other women or I am pursuing other women.  I'm not and it gets tiring trying to prove otherwise.  I can't prove a negative.

An example is that she constantly monitors my use of FB, WhatsApp, Viber, and anything else she can monitor on line.  If I don't call her, she will ask why I was on WhatsApp but did not call her. 

I had her with me in the US for a few weeks and I caught her spying on my smartphone.  That was a disaster because she went through all of my WhatsApp contacts.  There are a lot of women on it, some friends, some women from the past.  I don't know how to delete from WhatsApp, so it was all innocent.  But she freaked.  What really bothers me about this though is that she was sort of spying.  All this monitoring is a form of spying.  I just think it's strange and stressful.  I do something innocent like use WhatsApp to check in with a friend, she sees I was on WhatsApp, and immediately assumes the worse.

Second, I have found that she complains a lot.  She seems to like a lot of things about me, but she is no shy about complaining about what she does not like.  It's hard to keep up with.

Third, she insists on business class flights to come visit me.  I can afford it but I find that to be a waste of money.  Maybe that is a personal issue, but I was raised to not waste money.  It's not like I am stingy when she is with me.  I have provided vacations to nice hotels, taken her shopping, and, well, I pay for everything and I have no problem with that.  It's not realistic for me to keep flying her back and forth (and potentially her mother, if she stays with me permanently) with $4,000 flights. 

There have been some other things.  I think they are cultural, or hope they are.  She tells me that we have been together long enough that I should give her money to help support her while she is still in Ukraine.  (I have been to her apartment, seen enough of her life, that I know she is not just trying to scam me).  According to her, men there do things like that.  I am not comfortable with that.  If I bring her here permanently, of course I will support both of financially 100%.  I am in good shape financially (just not mega-rich like an FSU oligarch).

Another thing that worries me - She was married before.  She said that she would send money to her mother and that was an issue with her ex-husband.  He did not like it, so she would sneak money out of the bank account he provided for her to send money to her mother.  Well, I think that would be an issue for me too.  If we were married, and her mother had an emergency, sure I'd send money.  But I don't want her to send money without first discussing it with me.  When I combine the fact she was being sneaky and checking my smartphone (and probably some other things I don't know about) I just have to wonder if I can trust her with money. 

Finally, she does not seem to be able to relax very easily.  She is a bit wired. She worries a lot showing a good face to those around her or out and about.  I'm a really casual and relaxed guy. 

I guess what I end up wondering is if Ukrainian women (and men) have had to bend the rules so often just to live that perhaps this is ingrained in them.  I have encountered this in business in Latin America, where otherwise intelligent businessmen seem to believe that everything requires finding an "angle" to beat the system, even when obviously to me it is not necessary.  I worry about living with a woman that is always trying to find a way to beat "the system."

All that said, there are many, many things I really appreciate about her.  When I see her, I just want to squeeze her, love her, take care of her.  She hits me in that spot. 

Thanks for your feedback.

[BillyB]

So, to the issues:  She is very jealous and suspicious.  Yes, it's somewhat good that she is jealous, because it means she wants me to herself.  But these things can go over board, especially when tied to being constantly suspicious.  She often seems convinced that I have other women or I am pursuing other women.  I'm not and it gets tiring trying to prove otherwise.  I can't prove a negative.

An example is that she constantly monitors my use of FB, WhatsApp, Viber, and anything else she can monitor on line.  If I don't call her, she will ask why I was on WhatsApp but did not call her. 

I had her with me in the US for a few weeks and I caught her spying on my smartphone.  That was a disaster because she went through all of my WhatsApp contacts.  There are a lot of women on it, some friends, some women from the past.  I don't know how to delete from WhatsApp, so it was all innocent.  But she freaked.  What really bothers me about this though is that she was sort of spying.  All this monitoring is a form of spying.  I just think it's strange and stressful.  I do something innocent like use WhatsApp to check in with a friend, she sees I was on WhatsApp, and immediately assumes the worse.

You say she's incredibly loyal yet she doesn't trust you. You conducting most of your business overseas and most likely will be without her on those trips aren't going to help. I doubt you can change her. Her constant behavior would be a deal breaker for me no matter how good it feels between her legs.


If you spying on her, this forum would rip you to pieces, especially the women. We've had men wanting to hire private detectives and install keyboard logger programs on computers as ways of spying. I actually don't have a problem with them or your lady doing some investigation before marriage to validate commitment but if it never ends, you're in for a long rough ride.

Second, I have found that she complains a lot.  She seems to like a lot of things about me, but she is no shy about complaining about what she does not like.  It's hard to keep up with.

I've dated women who complained a lot about everything. It gets old and I tell them "Stop complaining and talk about solutions. Complaining doesn't solve the problem." If they continue to complain to where it becomes annoying, I walk away. They need to learn people don't enjoy listening to constant complaining. I don't know if your lady is that bad but you may have to alter her behavior if it becomes intolerable.

Third, she insists on business class flights to come visit me.  I can afford it but I find that to be a waste of money.  Maybe that is a personal issue, but I was raised to not waste money.  It's not like I am stingy when she is with me.  I have provided vacations to nice hotels, taken her shopping, and, well, I pay for everything and I have no problem with that.  It's not realistic for me to keep flying her back and forth (and potentially her mother, if she stays with me permanently) with $4,000 flights. 

Tell her you have money because you know how to spend it. I suspect you can afford it too based on the lifestyle you provided. Vacations and shopping excursions didn't help your case. If you don't keep this woman and someday get another, win her over with who you are, not with your wallet. If you marry this woman and you encounter tough economic times which most of us go through, will she stand by your side through this crisis?

She tells me that we have been together long enough that I should give her money to help support her while she is still in Ukraine.  (I have been to her apartment, seen enough of her life, that I know she is not just trying to scam me).  According to her, men there do things like that.  I am not comfortable with that.  If I bring her here permanently, of course I will support both of financially 100%.  I am in good shape financially (just not mega-rich like an FSU oligarch).

Is she your fiancée or wife? If none of those, you make the decisions when it comes to your money. If the other men give her the support she wants, she should find them. Since you're not comfortable supporting her yet, say "No" and she'll respect the fact you're not a pushover and a "yes" man. Regardless if some here consider you cheap and greedy, the fact you're not comfortable with that is reason enough not to proceed with financial support.

  She said that she would send money to her mother and that was an issue with her ex-husband.  He did not like it, so she would sneak money out of the bank account he provided for her to send money to her mother.  Well, I think that would be an issue for me too.


I just have to wonder if I can trust her with money. 

She's given you fair warning. She will make major financial decisions without you in marriage. It's important to help family but it's a must to include the spouse when making the decision to do so.

I worry about living with a woman that is always trying to find a way to beat "the system."

Beat the system or beat you?

All that said, there are many, many things I really appreciate about her.  When I see her, I just want to squeeze her, love her, take care of her.  She hits me in that spot. 

There are lots of girls out there that will make you feel good and not give you as much worry. Personally I'd move on. Too much drama and not enough trust.

[Boethius]

(New here, so have not figure out how to copy like you guys do, will learn).

Click on "quote" from the post you want to quote from.  It's in the top right hand corner.

Let me start by saying there are a lot of positive things.  I get the impression that my UW is incredibly loyal.  I don't think that can be faked.  She is really, really cute.  Beautiful in some senses, but not the knock-out beautiful some of you might prefer.  But, that doesn't matter, because I think she is beautiful.

I'm fortunate, because her English is very good.  She has a lot of the qualities I hear about here - she is very resourceful and I am often amazed at how she can thread the needle to figure out how to get something done.  I don't doubt that she wants to please me.  And I want to please her.  So, a lot of good here.

Yes, some of the issues are most likely me. I am used to spending a lot of time on my own.  I don't think I lack tolerance, however, as I conduct most of my business overseas.  I'm pretty open and don't judge.

So, to the issues:  She is very jealous and suspicious.  Yes, it's somewhat good that she is jealous, because it means she wants me to herself.  But these things can go over board, especially when tied to being constantly suspicious.  She often seems convinced that I have other women or I am pursuing other women.  I'm not and it gets tiring trying to prove otherwise.  I can't prove a negative.

An example is that she constantly monitors my use of FB, WhatsApp, Viber, and anything else she can monitor on line.  If I don't call her, she will ask why I was on WhatsApp but did not call her. 

I had her with me in the US for a few weeks and I caught her spying on my smartphone.  That was a disaster because she went through all of my WhatsApp contacts.  There are a lot of women on it, some friends, some women from the past.  I don't know how to delete from WhatsApp, so it was all innocent.  But she freaked.  What really bothers me about this though is that she was sort of spying.  All this monitoring is a form of spying.  I just think it's strange and stressful.  I do something innocent like use WhatsApp to check in with a friend, she sees I was on WhatsApp, and immediately assumes the worse.

Second, I have found that she complains a lot.  She seems to like a lot of things about me, but she is no shy about complaining about what she does not like.  It's hard to keep up with.

Third, she insists on business class flights to come visit me.  I can afford it but I find that to be a waste of money.  Maybe that is a personal issue, but I was raised to not waste money.  It's not like I am stingy when she is with me.  I have provided vacations to nice hotels, taken her shopping, and, well, I pay for everything and I have no problem with that.  It's not realistic for me to keep flying her back and forth (and potentially her mother, if she stays with me permanently) with $4,000 flights. 

There have been some other things.  I think they are cultural, or hope they are.  She tells me that we have been together long enough that I should give her money to help support her while she is still in Ukraine.  (I have been to her apartment, seen enough of her life, that I know she is not just trying to scam me).  According to her, men there do things like that.  I am not comfortable with that.  If I bring her here permanently, of course I will support both of financially 100%.  I am in good shape financially (just not mega-rich like an FSU oligarch).

Another thing that worries me - She was married before.  She said that she would send money to her mother and that was an issue with her ex-husband.  He did not like it, so she would sneak money out of the bank account he provided for her to send money to her mother.  Well, I think that would be an issue for me too.  If we were married, and her mother had an emergency, sure I'd send money.  But I don't want her to send money without first discussing it with me.  When I combine the fact she was being sneaky and checking my smartphone (and probably some other things I don't know about) I just have to wonder if I can trust her with money. 

Finally, she does not seem to be able to relax very easily.  She is a bit wired. She worries a lot showing a good face to those around her or out and about.  I'm a really casual and relaxed guy. 

I guess what I end up wondering is if Ukrainian women (and men) have had to bend the rules so often just to live that perhaps this is ingrained in them.  I have encountered this in business in Latin America, where otherwise intelligent businessmen seem to believe that everything requires finding an "angle" to beat the system, even when obviously to me it is not necessary.  I worry about living with a woman that is always trying to find a way to beat "the system."

All that said, there are many, many things I really appreciate about her.  When I see her, I just want to squeeze her, love her, take care of her.  She hits me in that spot. 

Thanks for your feedback.

Jealousy rarely changes. 


If she demands flying business class, she is high maintenance, and that will become worse, not better, with time.  It suggests someone who has certain attitudes.  Now you know why she wasn't married to a Ukrainian man, no matter what she says about them.


As for sending money, I don't see the big deal.  We send money to relatives, my Ukrainian Grandmother (God rest her soul), sent packages (in those days, no money) to relatives monthly, and it was probably about 10% of her salary.  This is common for anyone coming from third world countries (Ukraine is the second poorest country in Europe, and no matter what anyone tells you, it is, in many respects, and particularly in terms of money, a third world country).   If you don't like it, don't seek women from these countries.

[cc3]

Hello Ex. Welcome to RWD. My experience validity to comment derives from steadily courting, for three and a half years, being engaged to, and marrying (two weeks ago) my wonderful Ukrainian woman. I commute between the US Rockies and Ukraine every three to four weeks, always existing on the 90/180 day allowable visitation limit...will procure my 'D' visa and TRP in the next month (hopefully), because we plan to live in Ukraine while she and her daughter work on their higher education goals (besides, we really like living in Lviv).

Based on my limited experience with my one and only Ukrainian partner, such intense jealousy and personal spying is not at all normal. Traveling as much as I do, she could certainly have reason to be worried. But, she loves me and trusts me, as I do her. She knows that she is welcome to Skype call me anytime during my daily awake periods (nine hours earlier than UA time) in the Rockies.

Regarding finances, trust me, life is economically very difficult for even highly educated and professional Ukrainians here. Knowing that, when we became serious, I would always leave her my left over UAH cash (equivalent to $100 to $ 200) whenever I returned to the US. When we became engaged, I regularly (monthly) sent her a higher amount to supplement her private English teacher earnings. Even though, at the time, pre-Muscovite invasion, she earned more than the average UA wage, I wanted her to feel financially comfortable. When she had to flee the eastern war zone, with her teenage daughter, and resettle in Lviv, her income stopped. From then on, into our marriage, I have provided her with rent, household and personal expense money. This began about a year and a half ago. Recently, I asked her if she had managed to save any money, from what I had provided (which didn't seem like all that much to me, because the cost of living here is so low). She very much surprised me with the fact that she had saved half of the expense funds that I had provided! I told her, immediately, that, henceforward, she would be my personal financial manger.

She is an intelligent, practical, beautiful, and extremely loving woman. I have known none like her in the US.

[Eximio]

Thanks to all of you for your perspectives.  You have given me a lot to think about.  Even though I don't know any of you personally, I feel like I have read enough of your posts to get a sense of who you are.  It really is helpful to get your feedback and I really do appreciate it.

cc3 - that is very interesting that your wife is so good with money and managed to save some of what you sent her.

This woman that I have been involved with seems to be pretty good about shopping for price.  Well, at least for some things, but certainly not when it comes to flights!  But she also expresses an attitude about money like, "Money comes and goes, may as well enjoy it now."  My view of money is that it is a form of security, it helps alleviate some of the worries in life, especially if one knows how to invest it.  The value of money is much greater in that sense than it is for purchasing something that makes one feel good today.  But I can see how living in such a boom and bust economic environment since 1991 could make one think like that.  Have any of you found this to be a sort of consistent attitude about money among EW and UW?  (I only have a sample size of one, maybe some of you have a larger sample size!).

Excellent points BillyB.  I have said exactly that - "I have money because I know how to spend it, manage it, save it."  I have spent the past 3 months saying "no" to just about everything.  On her last visit, I refused to take her shopping - she got the message.  I have also told her that I will not put up with complaints or accusations; in fact, I shut down communications for about a month to make the point.  She seems to have come around on that, but only time will tell if she really got the message.

I have no doubt that there are plenty of girls out there.  I have been through probably more than my fair share, from a variety of countries in addition to American girls.  I'm giving this one some time because I find a lot of good things.  And, frankly, because I'm ready to settle down.  I have to say, though, from what I have read, this concept of loyalty when it comes to EW's seems like a consistent theme.  I like it.  So, if I move on, I suspect I will give UW another go.

Thanks again!

[ML]

Oh my !!

Too many negatives with this woman for me to even comment on individually.

I would never have gone on a second date with her (knowing what you now know about her), let alone be this involved with her.

A true heartbreak for you for sure at some point.

As my woman Ochka often says when I tell her of these stories . . . why do AM continue to be with such women when there are thousands of really good UW.

My condolences.

[Muzh]

Hi Exmio and 


There are women in the former Soyuz that are very tolerant and can be understanding. Of course, many look fabulous because they are slim, mostly because of their environment.


So, with that said, please, please, please, don't fall for the fantasy being peddled by these MOB agencies. These women are NOT tame little puppies that "want to cook tasty dishes and make home cosy." Also, once they come to the US they will become Americanized to a certain extent.


What works on your favor is that there are some young babes that are very willing to trade their "looks" for economic stability here. You can get lucky and find yourself a gem, IF you play your cards right.


Good luck.

[Faux Pas]

Don't just run, throw rocks and run.

[2tallbill]

So, if I move on, I suspect I will give UW another go.

My advice is to move on. There are girls with great character who aren't nearly
as much trouble. I don't know you situation that well, so I will give some generic 
advice that others reading this can follow as well.

1. You need to drive the bus.
2. Dump any girl who isn't the future Mrs _____________ (your name here).
3. Meet a lot of FSUW, you will see which ones are gems and which ones are not.
4. Don't recycle girls. Second chances/choices aren't for marriage.
5. Be prepared to start over at any time.
6. You know what you want, so go get it. (see advice number one again)
7. I noticed you keep saying UA girls. They are great but keep your net wide
open. Don't hesitate to consider a girl from Russia, Belarus, Moldova etc.

[jone]

Run.  Don't look back.

[Turboguy]

One of the biggest causes of divorce is a difference in opinion about finances and should you marry this girl you definitely are going to have issues with finances. I am much like you.  I would fly in the baggage compartment if the price was right but would never pay for business class or first class. Like you I value money as security not the enjoyment it can bring. 


Jealousy is one of the hardest faults to live with.  Ages ago I spent three and a half years living with one of the most jealous and suspicious women you could ever find.  Like yours she was pretty and when you saw her you just wanted to hug her.  She was very lovable.  Mine would go crazy over stupid things like a pretty woman on tv. When my Forbes magazine arrived in the mail she would go through it with a black magic marker blacking out any attractive women in ads or articles.  He good size and lovability would have made her someone I would have been happy to marry but the jealousy was something I could never have lived with.  Your life will be hell if you marry her.


Sending money to help out the family is not uncommon.  Like many men on this forum I never had a problem with that.  When my Mom got to 90+ she needed financial help and it was sizable enough that it was a drain on my finances but I never had a moments hesitation.  Likewise if my wife's Mom needed help I would not hesitate.  My wife and I are partners in life and her families needs are just as important as mine.  However, sneaking money to the family shows she has a sneaky side that could manifest itself in many troublesome ways in the future.


I won't tell you to run.  I think you are thinking with the small head not the big one.  That is another thing I can't fault you for.  I did my share of the same and it universally caused a lot of major issues that I had to deal with down the road.  I do think if you marry this girl you will have a rather difficult life while the marriage lasts.  If you are willing to pay that price then you should go for it. 


My search in the FSU went on far longer than most and cost far more than most but in the end I have a wife that is one of the most wonderful people I have  ever met.  She always amazes me.  There are a lot of women in the FSU with issues of one sort or another but there are also so very wonderful women that can make you happy.  Whatever you do I wish you the best and hope you keep us posted with how things are going.   

[Anotherkiwi]

Although it's slightly  :

My search in the FSU went on far longer than most and cost far more than most but in the end I have a wife that is one of the most wonderful people I have  ever met. She always amazes me.  There are a lot of women in the FSU with issues of one sort or another but there are also so very wonderful women that can make you happy.

We are also very grateful that she is prepared to post on here.  Like the majority of FSUW who do so, her writing is always well thought out and very much worth reading.  As well as being an asset to you, Turbo, she's also an asset to the forum.

And, now, back to our regular programming:

Whatever you do I wish you the best and hope you keep us posted with how things are going.

Yup!  Good luck in your search.

[LAman]

And you thought American women were bad??????

[Eximio]

Thanks TurboGuy.  God advice there.  Glad you found what you were looking for.

[Jumper]

Welcome!

You asked if the issues were cultural.

 That's kind of like asking if  American women are generally *XYZ*,
all the while knowing quite well in your own culture that a New York socialite will generally have a certain set of traits ,and expectations,  compared to a southern Indiana farm girl? 

'Tis the very same in any country and certainly in Ukraine.
There are all types

 Whether you intended to or not (as you were mainly  sharing negatives)  you paint her as very jealous, high maintenance, and a bit manipulative.
Is that cultural? lol
 I would say your romantic interest has a fair amount of similar thinking peers in Ukraine, in fact i'd say common enough to be a RW stereotype, particularly of the ones that married to relocate west.
Arguably women with those traits would be more motivated to look abroad for husbands right? )
It isn't that hard to find a complaining, high maintenance, jealous woman most anywhere (as they may tend to be more oft left single)

But fear not, there are plenty of women that do not share those traits as well.
 As Beo mentioned earlier, its a mentality, and certainly isn't shared by everyone.


My advise is similar to Faux Pas!
as just running isn't likely enough!

I do wish you well whatever you decide.