In retrospect - my story with Larisa

[Photo Guy]

Thank you all for those kind comments.  Looking back, I agree with Vaughn that I was often advised to visit her in her home city. I wanted to do that. She talked me out of it, and I allowed her to do that  -a mistake, a mistake that I have already acknowledged a long time ago. I see it now more in the context of her cultural adjustment and separation form her homeland, friends and family. Originally, I had viewed a visit to her home town as a way to get to know her better, as more time spent with her for the purpose of seeing who she was in the context of friends, family, and her job. Now I see the value of creating a relationship with her family and assuring them of my character and desire to care for their daughter. Doing that could've prevented her parents' need for her return. But, please be aware of her bad health and the health of her father, also bad. How do you deal with that? I am only a man, and not a God or magician. Now we're at the point where I send her flowers and a romantic note, while she's depressed, lying on various hospital beds undergoing diagnostic testing for unknown enironmental poisoning. ...not a romantic scenario.  I can only give her my support now, and remind her that I love her and care about her.  She is aware of the situation and has granted me her permission to Move On, rather than wait around for her recovery. More than my logistical RWD mistakes, it is all about her family's health now. I have just found a nice interpreter who also specializes in 'counselling'.  I hope this helps her in some small way, through these difficult times.

[BC]

But, please be aware of her bad health and the health of her father, also bad. How do you deal with that? I am only a man, and not a God or magician.

We all have our limitations.  As limitless as our love can be, a multitude of practical aspects exist that must be supported.

When I visited my wife's home, in many ways it was to find out how deep the water really was, and if my legs were long enough to keep my head above the waterline.

[Mamma D]

Helping your lady's family assure themselves her life is good...

It may seem a small thing, but it used to be that the fellas could go to the interview and later escort his new family home. Dick was there for the interview, but the visa was not issued that day(one of a few times this happened)... an extra night in Moscow really messed things up! It cut the three days planned in Ekaterinburg short..
But, he did attend her going away party and told her family a farewell, with promises to return as soon as they were able.

I would suggest that as soon as you can.... arrange a visit for your wife's mother to visit her and see for herself that her child is safe and well cared for....first hand!

Sveta arrived just after 9/11 and saw her daughters home, and where and how she lived....Saw our Great Rocky Mountains and Red Rocks  (Coloradians know this place) Estes park... met our family..

Saw Basil's school and met his piano teacher (Russian). His school and some of his friends... American, Mexican, and Ukrainian....

She left here satisfied that they do have a good life.. she saw it first hand.

As a parent this would have been important to me if my child was traveling halfway around the world!

[BC]

Mamma D,

Over the years, MIL has been my greatest ally.

Need I say more?

Cheers all!

[KenC]

Photoguy,

I can only give her my support now, and remind her that I love her and care about her.  She is aware of the situation and has granted me her permission to Move On, rather than wait around for her recovery.

So, what are you going to do?
KenC

[Photo Guy]

Right now? I'll support her and probably make a decision in September about whether or not I should visit her in October. Time will tell. What do you think I should do?

[Turboguy]

You may not like my advice but I think if I were you I would make a trip to meet new women and maybe stop my Maripol and spend a day or two with her.   I think if you make a trip to just visit her you are just pouring money and vacation time down the drain.  I know you want it to go somewhere but I think it is likely doomed.

[Admin]

You may not like my advice but I think if I were you I would make a trip to meet new women and maybe stop my Maripol and spend a day or two with her.   I think if you make a trip to just visit her you are just pouring money and vacation time down the drain.  I know you want it to go somewhere but I think it is likely doomed.

My post is not to give PG advice. More, it is to stake out a point which was made a long, long time ago that may be lost or forgotten.

Doug's girl comes from Mariupol. Mariupol sits on the banks of the Sea of Asov in the far southeastern section of Ukraine - not too far from the Russian border. More importantly, it sits at the nearest port city to the coal-rich region of the Donbas. For those who may be unaware, Ukraine has one of the largest coal reserves in the world. It is also one of the 'dirtiest' coal reserves in the world.

The combination of access to a sea port and access to water (for cooling) means that Mariupol is one of the most highly-industrialized cities in the entire world. I wrote of my visits there in the late 1990's quite some time ago. Mariupol was listed in National Geographic as the second most polluted city in the world - behind some rural industrial city in China. During the week I was there, I distinctly recall the pollution most days from the industrial plants (there were several - steel smelting, coal-fired electric power production, and perhaps others) creating a curtain of pollution so thick it was impossible to see the buildings when only 1/2 mile away from them. The only visible sign of the building was the pollutants flowing thickly out of the stack, and the top 1/3 of the stack could be seen. The effluent streams were not so easy to see as they flowed into the Sea of Asov, but the environmental devastation to the fish crops in the sea was apparent to the locals.

My point is - Larisa has grown up in an environmental wasteland, living with toxins and pollutants at levels vastly beyond any EPA standard. I don't know this to be fact - in that I didn't take measurements or anything like that while I was there - but the fact that I could *feel* the pollutants clinging to my skin and burning my eyes and nose each and every day I was there was evidence enough for me. That, and the people I was working with and their stories of chronic health problems - the evidence was all around - and compelling.

The picture I paint is bleak - and only the slightest of exaggeration. There were some times in Mariupol when I did not find it unpleasant - and my sample was only one week out of my lifetime, so hardly enough to draw a final conclusion. Still, I have no desire to return - and, candidly, I would be exceptionally cautious about becoming involved with a lady who hails from such an area - and there are other, equally nasty environmental dumps in Ukraine and throughout the FSU.

Something to consider.

- Dan

[PeeWee]

You might deal with it as you would any good friend or family member. And then as Turbo said have another reason for your travel and pursue that. Find closure in the visit and move on. Someday something may cycle back to you but don't live for that day that may never come.

Peewee

[PeeWee]

I wonder what the crib death rate is in that city?

peewee

[Turboguy]

There are some good agencies in places like Donetsk, Dnepropertovsk or Zaporoze which are not too far from Maripol.  Kherson is a little further but another good spot for agencies and gals, Simferpol or Odessa would be doable.   

I can take off a lot of time and not have a problem with it.  I don't think you are in the same boat.  I would use your trip to try and get a good start on building the life you want.   

[BillyB]

Right now? I'll support her and probably make a decision in September about whether or not I should visit her in October. Time will tell. What do you think I should do?

She has given you permission to move on. That is the nice way women say there will be nothing serious between you to in the near future. So...., I think you should move on for your sake. Get over your feelings for her and get yourself back to a healthy emotional state before looking for another woman.

PG, I'm strickly talking about your life here. You have the need to find a life partner and from what I understand, you do not have endless financial resources. Take care of yourself and stay focused on your goal to find a life partner. You live only so long before you die. Your prime years are disappearing fast and soon you aren't going to be desirable to many women except babushkas. Get over it, get your act together and move on.

[KenC]

Right now? I'll support her and probably make a decision in September about whether or not I should visit her in October. Time will tell. What do you think I should do?

Photoguy,
It all depends upon your feelings for her and your take on what she meant by setting you free to seek another woman. You are the only one that has the inside information on those.  I guess if it were me, I would consider that her family and motherland was ahead of her wanting to be with you.  You did everything in your power to win her heart and still didn't come in first place.  I would want to be with a woman that is willing to give everything up to be with me, and I am with such a woman.  Go find a woman that worships the ground you walk on.  You have a lot going for yourself and you need not sell yourself short.  Good luck (and be smart)
KenC

[Son of Clyde]

There is no rulebook for priorities but from what I can see children are always first priority followed by spouses and parents. If the parents become second priority it is not looking good for the spouse. Do you look to your parents to pay the rent, file joint income tax returns and raise your children? Parents can be very supportive but the spouse should be the support for the family. So I tend to agree with KenC in this respect.

On the other hand if a woman totally worships her spouse and her child takes a back seat to the spouse, this does not set so well with me.

[PeeWee]

There is no rulebook for priorities but from what I can see children are always first priority followed by spouses and parents. If the parents become second priority it is not looking good for the spouse. Do you look to your parents to pay the rent, file joint income tax returns and raise your children? Parents can be very supportive but the spouse should be the support for the family. So I tend to agree with KenC in this respect.

On the other hand if a woman totally worships her spouse and her child takes a back seat to the spouse, this does not set so well with me.

I agree with it, Clyde. I had had that discussion with my former RW. I knew that her daughter was the most important person in her life, as is my son. I told there that the children as number one with me to which she commented, "I hope that I a am number two."  I think must will agree with this. Maybe there should not be a prioritization. Maybe everyone should be number one in our lives.

Peewee

[beattledog]

You should have come to an understanding how often she would visit home, and if her parents become ill, that she would return for a period of time.  You must remember, that she is a strange and new country, depending mainly on you.  My  lady has excellent English schools, doing her post graduate work on a Rhodes scholarship, at the University of Oxford.   She has been away from home and understands the western cuture and attitude.  I consider this a huge plus in our relationship and understanding of our relationship.   I consider myself very fortunate to have found such a lady.  We must remember that is not our decision  whether of not she will be happy in a smaller town or another country, but ours.   We must allow the lady to make that decison for herself and  we should not make it for her.


Beattledog

[BradSTL]

there are other, equally nasty environmental dumps in Ukraine and throughout the FSU.

Dan--- I have wondered about this a lot.  The only 'knowledge' I have about the dangerous environment in the FSU is from anecdotes from folks such as you, or a few of the Russians I meet via e-mail/chat.  I have heard that the Russian city of Togliatti is an environmental mess, as is Ivanovo.  Does a list exist of the FSU cities that are considered heavily polluted, environmentally dangerous?