An AW thoughts on me, AJ, KenC, Rvwind and some of you guys

[I/O]

Sharks are a protected species.

I/O

[timothe]

I still don't get it, so I'll ask Andrew the same question I asked earlier in this thread. (and did not get an answer)

Andrew, I must be missing something because I don't see where women are denied opportunity in the USA.  I can't think of a single example of this.  Not one.  Can you please clarify the statement where you see the USA as being "backward" in comparison to Nordic countries in the arena of opportunity for women?

[catzenmouse]

Sharks are a protected species.

I/O

Darn it! I/O you're taking all my fun away. Of course, you are right. The shark wouldn't have a chance...

Ken

[TwoBitBandit]

there are 100 different ways to screw this up. 

That, however, is not a reason to stay home.   Take a trip and meet these fascinating women.   It may very well change your life in profound and positive ways.

LOL.

I couldn't agree more.

I've probably personally done about 50 of those 100 ways.  Sometimes, you just need to get up, dust yourself off, laugh at yourself a little, and get back on the horse.

[TwoBitBandit]

Although on the surface most of these articles try to portray us as losers who can't find love at home, I truly think they are missing the point. I have found, not all, but a good percentage of the men in this pursuit to be of greater intelligence than those I have met that chose to stick it out back home. They are for the most part better educated, maybe not school wise but street smart, most are go getters that when they set their mind to something they do it! But the most common denominator I have found among all those I have met personally in this pursuit is that they tend to use common sense! Something that is sorely lacking in the general populace as well as in government circles.

Richard, I've met many of my fellow RW seekers.  (Obviously, you've met more than me.)  I have this impression: there are almost two distinct groups.  There are some guys who are sociable, friendly and successful.  They are accountants, run their own businesses, they are lawyers, whatever.  They tend to dress well. 

Then, there's a second group: and they are just weird.  They don't have their house in order at all.  I don't even know how to describe them, but they're all weird in a different way.

And it seems there is almost nothing in-between; there's not a spectrum of guys like there is back home.

...just my two *bits* worth.

[ScottinCrimea]

Ken, if a 6 year old is testing your patience, you're in for big trouble when they get to be a teenager.  I think being a single father to three teenage daughters at the same time and now step-father to my wife's very Russian 15 year old daughter goes a long way in explaining why I'm losing my hair.  getting along with a Russian woman is a iece of cake compared to that.

[catzenmouse]

Scott,

 Been there, done that, got the shirt and the grey hair from the teenagers. Found one very special "Law of Nature" regarding those years between 13 - 20.

 Teenagers are why animals eat their young!

BTW, my oldest is 22 now and is still in the midst of being a teenager.

Ken

[mspanky]

Richard, I've met many of my fellow RW seekers.  (Obviously, you've met more than me.)  I have this impression: there are almost two distinct groups.  There are some guys who are sociable, friendly and successful.  They are accountants, run their own businesses, they are lawyers, whatever.  They tend to dress well. 

Then, there's a second group: and they are just weird.  They don't have their house in order at all.  I don't even know how to describe them, but they're all weird in a different way.

And it seems there is almost nothing in-between; there's not a spectrum of guys like there is back home.

...just my two *bits* worth.

    I agree. The percentage of decent guys with great social skills going overseas is a minority.  Also, just because a man is intelligent and has a good income does not mean he is attractive to women. He may be lacking social skills, be out of shape,unsociable, blame American women for all of his dating issues, ect. Just because someone may look great on paper does not make them attractive spouse material.

[Jumper]

Most of you are considered by those who come across you as not particularly wholesome. That is the message of the article and nobody has written anything that would change anybody's opinion in that regard one iota.

Andrew ,
 i agree with you that is was indeed the intended *message*
of the article.
I am glad you defined it so well in fact.

the amusing part is you  inject  the word "most" ,
quite the generalization in itself.

it may be accurate, but you have no real facts to back that up, and neither does Gina, despite her truly indepth study of the situation.

Before you, or completely unbiased Gina,  expound on some given topic, it would simply be nice if you had some facts.

Your opinions may get published , as Gina's were, but that does not give them anything more than an audience.
It does not, in itself, make them accurate.

interview and do an indepth study of the people that *most * of
*us* come across everday,
and yes you may come up with some facts that support your opinion, and *message*
heck it may prove to be accurate !!

I rather suspect that it would in the general public areana,
as the general public simply doesnt come across this sitution or know anyone in it..!!!
so its likely it wouldnt be nearly so strong as
 "particularly unwholesome", to most people  who ACTUALLY came across "us folks"


However,
 until such a true study,  it is simply opinion,
and should be thought of as such.

 I'm glad Gina used my joke as something to simply portray AM have a good since of humor about divorce,
and i am convinced she had no agenda or bias to use it in any other way than it was intended by me. 

Andrew i certainly will not use the *out of context* defense,
any more than Gina using the selective editing offence

Did she quote me accurately? absolutely
did she quote me out of context? absolutely not.

is that the whole of the story?
 only if your are in a court of law with a rabid attorney and a paid off judge.

I would say there are far far more quotes on RWG she could have gleaned from me, portraying  the exact opposite of what she used that quote for. (care to go back and read my complete  replies to maxx at the time?THAT obviuosly dint fit into gina's *message*)

and andrew, my quote is minor and irrelevent to the story..
but the way it was used,an more importantly the fact it was even
selected at all..
Does indeed indicate the way all information was used and selected for the article.   
as such, and with no true study, it only serves to substantiate a stereotype , and shows that Gina knew the audience she was writing to. I suppose a good trait for her to have,given
 her occupation at the time?

Gina,
here is your gold star ,
 in case your publisher or editor forgot at the time,,
 for  a fine effort to not only entertain your chosen audience ,
but provide a somewhat accurate yet incomplete overview ..
of a website on the internet.

good job and bravo!

 ::::::golf clap::::




Now i'll have to go to bed and tell my wife how most people that come across me , or rather us, find us unwholesome..
actually PARTICULARLY unwholesome!!
I mean Gina said so! and andrew so surprisingly
agrees! and it was published after all,
in real ink and everything!!
So it must be true.
 whatever shall we do ?

a shant get a wink of sleep i bet!

[I/O]

a shant get a wink of sleep i bet!

I should hope not...at least until you have competed whatever else.........................

I/O

[Maxx2]

I would say there are far far more quotes on RWG she could have gleaned from me, portraying  the exact opposite of what she used that quote for. (care to go back and read my complete  replies to maxx at the time?THAT obviuosly dint fit into gina's *message*)

and andrew, my quote is minor and irrelevent to the story..
but the way it was used,an more importantly the fact it was even
selected at all..

I seen her use of it to portray RWG as mostly a good ol boys club that jokes around about DV and killing off troublesome wives <shrugs>. Anyone that knows AJ knows he is a all round nice and decent sort of guy. That comes out in his writings loud and clear something Gina should have caught. But Gina got some important details about my brief marriage turned around 180 degrees. Details that were clearly stated. So I come to the conclusion she was not being honest and would not portray anyone in involved in this business in any sort of positive light.

Maxx

[andrewfi]

AJ, if you do not agree with my opinion, or that of anyone else, then it behoves you to disprove my postion. Not me to prove my opinion is correct.
'Most' is not a generalisation. I know full well that some people think that those who seek to import brides are healthy and normal - after all you, AJ, are evidence that such a group exists. I could, therefore, hardly claim that ALL felt there was something unhealthy about your pursuit. And, you already know that I have written, often, in support of you guys, so you know that I am more in YOUR camp than that of the naysayers!

I think that there is plenty of empical evidence to support my opinion or I'd not hold it, much less state such in public. I have enough of a track record, as you well know, for having my ducks in a row when I write something. From what I read of the writer of the article quoted, she too has her ducks in a row.
It is likely that you'd have a tough time finding a consensus from among your countrymen that would disagree with my point.

Maxx may feel slighted by what she wrote, but I have to say that from where I sit I don't think I could disagree with her intrepretation of what she read. See, that is how things are; the 'truth' is rarely absolute, is usually up for interpretation and almost always seen through the lens of preconception. The writer of the article, in fact, is, given her background and training, likely LESS prone to falling foul of these issues than most, especially given that the group of which she writes is here, navel gazing and day after day engaged in a ritual of self justificatory posts. We, you, me are among the ones least likely able to look at the import of foreign women as brides in an objective manner and thus are the group least likely able to deal with what an 'outsider' sees.

[andrewfi]

I still don't get it, so I'll ask Andrew the same question I asked earlier in this thread. (and did not get an answer)

Andrew, I must be missing something because I don't see where women are denied opportunity in the USA.  I can't think of a single example of this.  Not one.  Can you please clarify the statement where you see the USA as being "backward" in comparison to Nordic countries in the arena of opportunity for women?

Sorry old man, I thought I had writen about this time and time again!

I did NOT write that women were denied opportunities inthe US. You will go a long way to find those words written by me! Compared to the countries from which they come the US is a happy hunting ground of opportunity! That was the bloody point I was trying to make. Sadly, some have, it seems turned off their ability to read and comprehend and see that any comparison between the 'Home Of the Brave'(TM) and any other country is, in and of itself, a criticism (not that there is anything wrong with criticism, unless one is American, it seems) It is, according to those who interest themselves in such things, true that women in the US are less equal, overall, than in some other places. It does not in one whit detract from the point I was making so many posts ago about how women, imported by you self analytical masters, are likely to change their minds about how they wish to conduct their lives when they see how much more they can achieve than in their country of origin. Surely this is not too hard eh Timothe?

[Jumper]

andrerwfi-

'Most' is not a generalisation

"most englishmen are pompous"

and just because a good portion of the world at one time had that view, doern't make it any more accurate or less accurate right? (isnt that your argument?)


yes it is a generalization, so was yours,,

while yours may be more accurate,
please try not to hide behind calling it what it is.

or by saying,

*AJ you must prove my opinion incorrect ,
instead of just pointing out the fact it is merely an opinion.*

no andrew,,lol i can accurately state that
the quote in question  IS merely an opinion..
sorry for pointing that out.

you can provide no evidence that MOST people that come across western men married to eastern european women ,
are viewed as by them as
"particularly unwholesome"

and THAT is what you determined as the main message of Gina's artilcle..

as it's main message , and how it is presented,
isn't it important , that  it is founded on more than opinion..??

otherwise it is simply entertainment for its intended audience,
which is far closer to the reality.

so i stand by my statement that you are merely posting opinion again,., not unlike myself, or most other posters..
or Gina.

my trouble andrew is that you often ,
like in your recent reply,
 try to add more credibilty to it,, in the form of implied empherical evidence and present it as factual.

Again i agree with you that it *could* be an accurate assesment..,
and understand you are often in  this side of the "camp" ??lol
 
but yourself,  nor Gina ,have donme anything to provide proofs of your position.. of the articles MAIN messgae..
as interpreted by andrewfi.

particularly unwholesome

 
I tell you what andrew, i will poll 100 random people in chicago today.

Do you find western men married to eastern european women

very wholesome
somewhat wholsesome
wholesome
somewhat unwholsome
unwholesome
particularly unwholesome.


sematicvs maybe, but i wil bet you that
"nmost" would not answer partyicularly unwholsome..
and those 10 have probably not ever jknown, or ao9me across, anyone maried to a eastern european.

is that empherical enough to disprove your take of  Ginas message?
perhaps not..

but it would be more factuasl and less of a generalization than
you and Gina presenting no facts or studies yet comcluyding that 

"Most people feel this way"
 



you know i only post here when bored ,
and simply messing with you

i cant completely disagree with Gina's article.
i also can see that she did indeed slant it to her already preconcieved notions, and did little to find out if they were or were not accurate.
just because they may be prefectly accurate,
doesnt excuse her as a journalist from doing her research and homework thats needed to do her job well.
She dint, and i wont apologize for pointing it out to her or you.
you are simply making the excuse that "well its accurate regardless of wether she did a good job or not"
 






do you follow me andrew?



 

[swindoom]

I tell you what andrew, i will poll 100 random people in chicago today.

Do you find western men married to eastern european women

very wholesome
somewhat wholsesome
wholesome
somewhat unwholsome
unwholesome
particularly unwholesome.

The question is wrong, it should be:-
Do you find western men married to young eastern european women
very wholesome
somewhat wholsesome
wholesome
somewhat unwholsome
unwholesome
particularly unwholesome.

For people who do not know anything about western men and FSU relationships the results would not be good. From the western men I have know who are married to eastern european woman the majority are not good men.

[timothe]

Sorry old man, I thought I had writen about this time and time again!

I did NOT write that women were denied opportunities inthe US. You will go a long way to find those words written by me! Compared to the countries from which they come the US is a happy hunting ground of opportunity! That was the bloody point I was trying to make. Sadly, some have, it seems turned off their ability to read and comprehend and see that any comparison between the 'Home Of the Brave'(TM) and any other country is, in and of itself, a criticism (not that there is anything wrong with criticism, unless one is American, it seems) It is, according to those who interest themselves in such things, true that women in the US are less equal, overall, than in some other places. It does not in one whit detract from the point I was making so many posts ago about how women, imported by you self analytical masters, are likely to change their minds about how they wish to conduct their lives when they see how much more they can achieve than in their country of origin. Surely this is not too hard eh Timothe?

Now that you've answered my question with little content and a lot of insult, I will rephrase the question so that you can understand my point.  I think you confused what I wrote to mean "opportunity for Russian women", when that was not what I was inferring. 

How is the opportunity for women less in the US than the opportunity for women in other countries, compared to men?  (specifically, European countries)
How is the opportunity for men greater in the US than the opportunity for men in other countries, compared to women?  (If there is inequity, then one has to be either less than or greater than the other, right?)
And if there is no difference in opportunities available to men and women between the US and other countries, then how does this "inequity" between the sexes manifest itself? 

BTW...I am younger than you.  By more than a couple of years. 

[Admin]

BTW...I am younger than you.  By more than a couple of years. 

Yeah - didn't we miss making an announcement of the BIG 4...0 !

Congrats! (belatedly)

- Dan