THE REALITY OF DIVORCE

[jj]

Billy B,  I think you are right on about some people are not marriage material. Each personality is different and some people just can't compromise a little for the sake of the marriage.  After my divorce, I had a distance relationship with a gal in another state who had been married twice before.  Even tho I could provide and help her and kids, she had the attitude that things always went wrong for her, and was always in need.  Needless to say , when other things started to happen, I got out of that relationship, but realized that marriage would have ended quickly with financial well drying up.  So, when going into a relationship with AW  or FSU and marriage, a marriage that starts out with good ability to provide financially can go south if you realize all of a sudden she is expecting more and more the nicer you are to her.  Then the argument over finances, and the divorce anyway. So knowing what they expect beyond love and good provider early on is important and what is her real personality going to be like after marriage.  -jj

[av8or1]

[snip]
Didn't you ask for opinion of your family before you made finale decision? I did. What would you do if they said.. no, you should stay together doesn't matter what... Would you?

My mother asked for my opinion when I was 10. Of course I said NO for many reasons, she didn't divorce him then, 8 years later, but never separated from him, and we had the hell of the life. When I asked her why she didn't finalise a divorce and moved out or made him to move out, she said that I didn't want her to, I said NO, back then I said million times yes, but she's chosen to remember the first time. Divorce is not always a bad thing, sometimes it is a beginning of something new and wonderful.

You know, this is kinda funny for me and yet ironic.  Wild Orchid does have a point in some contexts say for example where there is abuse present in a marriage.  However I tend to agree with BillyB, the abuse thing is over-used and exaggerated in most cases.  Usually I have found it being proclaimed only because one person or another isn't getting their way and don't know how to sacrifice/compromise.  Which goes back to the marriage material issue.  But now I'm straying...back to the ironic thing.  When I first began the RW search I did so primarily because I had two examples of friends who were/are married to women from the FSU.  These women are both stout opponents of divorce and claim that no true Russian woman would divorce her husband.  These women were and are the motivation for my search abroad because I don't believe in divorce either.  It was (and still is) my hope to find a woman with the same belief system that I and my friends and their wives have.  However, I have found many RW like Wild Orchid who have brought me to the stark realization that despite all of the factors, nationality, economics, religion, traditions, whatever, it is the character of the individual woman that will be the determining factor in whether or not she'll leave you.  Basically, the idea that a RW will be "better" than an AW in this regard has turned out to be a myth in my experience.  Many of the RW are just as spoiled and have the same "bad attitude" that AW do in this regard.  No offense intended, though I feel relatively certain it'll be taken that way despite this sincere disclaimer.

For me the issue of what my family or friends thought I should do would be moot.  Although I would listen to them if they chose to offer advice, in the end I would make my own decision and that decision would be to remain in the marriage.  The only exceptions that I could think of would be like if my wife ran off and joined some religious cult, living in a fortified compound in the wilds of Iowa or something.  Don't laugh, it happened to a buddy of mine.  He tried to get her back for about 6 months, but gave up, filed the documents and remarried about 2 years later.  These kinds of situations are when divorce is about the only alternative IMHO.

Unlike many men who I have met who are courageous enough to make this venture across the pond, I am not closed off to the notion of dating an AW.  The RW thing has simply become an effort to expand the search a bit, to push the envelope.  Which in a way, I guess it should have been like that all along.  The only problem is that RW are so much more beautiful in general, so I find myself leaning towards planning the next trip rather than searching around here locally.  Funny, isn't it?

Best to everyone,

Jerry

[BillyB]

Jerry,

Your admitted change in view of RW will help you greatly. Judging people as individuals is more important than judging them as a group. I did find it interesting though that some groups of people divorce much less or more than others and that fact shouldn't be ignored.

Many guys based on agency hype or have little but positive experience with FSU women go to the FSU prepared for success thinking all FSU are alike. But you must also be prepared for failure. If things aren't right when you meet an FSU woman for the first time, you must be able to walk away and move on just as jj did with an AW that was always in need.

[Albert]

Billy says:  "I have heard female castration in Muslim nations keeps females from straying in marriage."

= = = = = = =

Interesting . . . . Can you explain the procedures involved and how it prevents straying.

[BillyB]

Interesting . . . . Can you explain the procedures involved and how it prevents straying.

When part of your sex organ is cut off, you will enjoy sex less. As for the procedure, check this link out. Albert, you being a proclaimed sexual creature should  already know this. I have doubts about you.

http://www.nocirc.org/symposia/first/badawi.html

[Wild Orchid*]

Many of the RW are just as spoiled and have the same "bad attitude" that AW do in this regard.  No offense intended, though I feel relatively certain it'll be taken that way despite this sincere disclaimer.

Best to everyone,

Jerry

I didn’t quite understand what you were trying to say (underlined by me). I came from the family, where woman believed that she should stay in the marriage doesn’t matter what. I suffered a lot through that, my youngest brother even more, and now nobody will make me to stay in the marriage if I am NOT happy. Too much is on the stake to be in the marriage just for the sake of it..

[groovlstk]

However, I have found many RW like Wild Orchid who have brought me to the stark realization that despite all of the factors, nationality, economics, religion, traditions, whatever, it is the character of the individual woman that will be the determining factor in whether or not she'll leave you.  Basically, the idea that a RW will be "better" than an AW in this regard has turned out to be a myth in my experience.  Many of the RW are just as spoiled and have the same "bad attitude" that AW do in this regard.  No offense intended, though I feel relatively certain it'll be taken that way despite this sincere disclaimer.

This "bad attitude" would be considered "normal" and "healthy" by most people. Expecting someone to remain in a loveless marriage is like asking them to spend the rest of their life living a nightmare. The only women (or men) I can imagine embracing such a concept would do so only out of deep religious conviction or simply because they lack even the most basic self worth. 

[Albert]

When part of your sex organ is cut off, you will enjoy sex less. As for the procedure, check this link out. Albert, you being a proclaimed sexual creature should  already know this. I have doubts about you.

http://www.nocirc.org/symposia/first/badawi.html

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Actually, I was quite aware of the procedures described in the website you provided.  My question had to do with your ascribing it as 'castration.'  But I see that you have merely picked up the wrong wording from this web site.  Removal or mutilation of the female clitoris has nothing to do with castration.

Also, I was taking exception to your idea that this prevents 'straying.'  As you say, after the procedure, the person will enjoy sex less.  Then why would the person stay with and have sex with their current partner?  A woman who enjoys sex with her partner can stray to have sex with other partners.  A woman who does not enjoy sex with her partner can stray to have sex with another partner even if that also leads to no enjoyment.

Another point.  Many women can have internal orgasms at the G spot.  They can continue to have orgasms there even after removal of the external clitoris.  But whether or not a particular woman will have orgasms externally at the clitoris or internally at the G spot depends a lot on their desire.  The desire is not controlled by the clitoris but rather by hormones produced by other glands.

[Bruno]

Billy says:  "I have heard female castration in Muslim nations keeps females from straying in marriage."

= = = = = = =

Interesting . . . . Can you explain the procedures involved and how it prevents straying.

Strange that Billy relate the FGC ( female genital cutting ) to Muslim nation... these practice is mainly used in Africa :



and it is not related to the Islam :

"Female circumcision is a controversial issue and is beyond the scope of this article. The majority of Muslim countries (except in parts of sub-Saharan Africa) do not practice it. It is considered to be a pre-Islamic custom and is not exclusive to Islam, but is indicative of certain regions. People indigenous to all parts of the world, of all beliefs and religions still practice it, including Jews, Christians, Buddhists, and Animists living in Asia, Africa, and even Mexico."
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/108/4/965

From the 2005 rapport of the UNICEF
http://www.unicef.org/publications/files/FGM-C_final_10_October.pdf
Take a look at the page 10... about the religious factor...
Page 11 for a graph with ratio Muslim/Christian...

For Albert :
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=retrieve&db=pubmed&list_uids=10348385&dopt=Abstract

[BillyB]

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Actually, I was quite aware of the procedures described in the website you provided.  My question had to do with your ascribing it as 'castration.'  But I see that you have merely picked up the wrong wording from this web site.  Removal or mutilation of the female clitoris has nothing to do with castration.

Oh I get it, You knew it all along and, for the fun of it, made two smart ass posts to imply I'm ignorant. It's so much easier to imply someone is dumb instead of educating yourself first to make sure you're right. Let me help you. Castration from the word "castrate" can be used in place of the words deprive, take away, cut, take out, remove among other words. Take notice in the links below the example that shows "castrate" can be use in a sentence that has nothing to do with humans, reproduction, and sex organs as you thought.

http://dict.die.net/castrate/

http://www.encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/castrate.html

http://www.allwords.com/word-castrated.html

 Just remember, in the English language there can be more than one definition for each word.

As far as preventing straying, less sex genitalia means less sexual pleasure which means less sexual desire and promotes women in maintaining virginity and fidelity which is important to Muslims. You can google that.

Bruno, though Africa is the theme, that page 11 you're talking about fails to show Eygpt and the site doesn't talk much about the Middle East. Another chart on your link shows Eygpt has 97% of their women with female cutting, mutilation, castration or what ever you want to call it. Eygpt is predominantly Muslim so one can't escape the fact many Muslims are practicing FGC. After researching, I agree that FGC pre-dates Islam but it is a fact, besides in Eygpt, many Muslims have adopted the practice.

[av8or1]

This "bad attitude" would be considered "normal" and "healthy" by most people. Expecting someone to remain in a loveless marriage is like asking them to spend the rest of their life living a nightmare. The only women (or men) I can imagine embracing such a concept would do so only out of deep religious conviction or simply because they lack even the most basic self worth. 

Hi,

Well I can't agree with your conclusion that most people would consider divorce "normal" and "healthy", but to each his/her own.  And don't bring self worth into the argument as a form of justification for divorce, it doesn't apply.

As for Wild Orchid's comments about being "happy", oh dear, don't get me started on that one. lol

Oh heck, let's just shake hands and agree to disagree.

Best,

Jerry

[Wild Orchid*]

As for Wild Orchid's comments about being "happy", oh dear, don't get me started on that one. lol

Oh heck, let's just shake hands and agree to disagree.

Best,

Jerry

I hope miserable marriage will never happen to you. All the best. Seems to me you don’t know what you talking about. Have you been divorced?

[viking]

Albert,

Female mutulation is a terrible, painful, barbaric and completely unnecessary act

I saw a photo in a Time Magazine of a young woman being held down on all fours by two men, while a really dirty, wretched man, in a sleazy room sitting behind her with a s**t eating  grin on his face with a knife was slicing off her genitals. The look of horror, tears and pain on this poor girls face still haunts me after almost 25 years. We are not talking a hospital environment with anasthesia.

It is a male desire to control the woman. Sheer Domination. Nothing more. If she cannot enjoy sex, she will not wander. There are several orgainizations around the world, and even in the United Nations, that are trying to wipe this out.

Vision yourself in this womans place as a woman was preparing to cut of your balls and there was not a damn thing you could do about it.

[viking]

About divorce. Been there and have done that.

There can be many reasons for a divorce. Some one was unfaithful and the other person choose not to try and 'forgive'. There can be severe hardships which just drain the energy out of a marriage. The lose of a child can create a division that sometimes cannot be  healed. And sometimes, it is just a matter of two people growing into two different directions where all the commonality of years gone by no longer exist. It's growing up and sometimes growing old. People change and sometimes those changes are simply not appreciated by their partner. It has nothing, IMHO, to do with RW or AW. But just life.

What to do? Do you continue an existance where you will feel bad, anxious, unhappy, maybe depressed for the rest of your life? Or recognize that it is 'not working' anymore, try and make an amicable split, maybe still care for your partner of many years but now both of you can feel better to live a life that is more in keeping of who you are at the moment, or will be in the future. Trust me when I say to you 30 somethings out there. Life can be really short not to try and enjoy it as much as possible.

Does this mean that you should not try and make it work?. Talking, counseling, whatever it takes to fix the rpoblems?. Of course not. If divorce is the only option, then you need to make sure that EVERYTHING was tried, in good faith, before splitting up. At least there will not be any guilt trips or baggage to follow you around.

And as far as children go, they are a lot more resilient than you think. They will know if something is not right. Quite honestly, I know many people who got along better with their kids after divorce than when they were married. Why? They were now relaxed, more in tune to themselves, more open, and more able to appreciate what was around them then before when they were wound so tight they could not figure who they were anymore. And the kids (both younger and older) did not have to wonder what was going to happen when the other shoe fell. It was over. Closure can be a wonderful thing.

[av8or1]

I hope miserable marriage will never happen to you. All the best. Seems to me you don’t know what you talking about. Have you been divorced?

Wait right there....I don't know what I am talking about because I don't agree with your views/opinions?  Boy, that's a healthy approach to take.  Not!

Look, back off Wild Orchid.  I don't agree with you and I never will.  Let's just leave it at that, ok?

Best,

Jerry

[Wild Orchid*]

Wait right there....I don't know what I am talking about because I don't agree with your views/opinions?  Boy, that's a healthy approach to take.  Not!

Look, back off Wild Orchid.  I don't agree with you and I never will.  Let's just leave it at that, ok?

Best,

Jerry

???