A different Way

[deden]

There are lots of discussions regarding what is the best way to meet sincere women.  Personally, I believe it is possible to do it any way you want, however each way has its associated degree of risk.  Of course, we all want to decrease our degree of risk and get the best results from our investment (time, money, feelings, etc.)  All methods of pursuit will eventually get you to where you want to be, some will just take a whole lot longer because of the higher risks you have accepted in how you go about this.  In addition to what is the best way, having read a post somewhere on this board started by Marc discussing the changes in the "MOB" business leads me to believe what may have been successful approaches in the past may not necessarily be what will be best tomorrow.  While you can argue that much has not changed in this process or it has changed drastically, the arguments don't really matter, what matters is how do we adapt to the the changes since our goal has not changed.

When I first started going down this road in 1997/1998, there wasn't near the agencies that there are today nor the attention that is now focused on this process.  Having been out of the process for the last couple of years and now re-entering it, I can definately say that the process is changing.  So while I have some some experience from this process in the past, in reality I'm re-entering a different enviornment than when I left it.  So in a sense, I have some of the same concerns as many of the new guys just starting out have.

So I'll identify what I think are some of the major hurdles in this process are and how I think might be a new way to overcome them (that'll be your chance to flame me).

The first issue is finding what you think are sincere ladies to write to.  I think we can all agree this is typically the first step in the process once a person commits to it.  How mwn do this varies from free sites to agencies to ads, etc.  Each has its own risk/reward associated with it.  The bottom line is you need a pool of sincere ladies willing to write and then you have to sort through them to identify which ones might meet what you are seeking.

The second real issue I think is the time issue that most have in actually spending over there one on one with the ladies to really sort them out and narrow them down based on things like chemistry, etc.  The pre time of writing and identifying ladies that might match what you are looking for is practically unlimited.  You can spend any amout of time doing this since it is done here in the US after work at your computer.  But sooner or later we gotta get on the big bird and go see them.  The problem is, most guys have limited vacation time to do this.  So it usually means several trips over the course of a year or two or as in my case, longer.  This leads to the next problem.

The third problem if you are going to do this is it is going to cost money.  I think we can all agree that if you are going to attempt this in the first place you need sufficient financial resources, but aside from that, we all want to get the most out of our financial investment.  No one wants to throw money away, get ripped off, etc.  The money concerns usually starts from the letter writing and continus through the trip planning (finding an interpreter to renting a flat, etc).  Because we have already identified that the process could take several trips, the cost will be somewhat significant overall.  Now some guys have more financial resources than others so some will utilize their resources differently.

And finally, I would say the other major problem is the global issue of the industry itself.  Things are different than they were back in the mid to late 90's.  Some for the good, some for the worse.  There is more competition with the number of agencies, more people trying to profit off of you (both scamming and non-scamming), more awareness over there that you will pay more than Ukrainians will for the same services, more men doing this, bad image some Americans and others have casted on this process, and on and on and on.  Again, I don't think all of these are necessarily bad, just that things are changing all the time.  And as such, we as well need to adapt to these changes.

Sure there are other problems as well as some of these problems maynot apply to some of you.  But the fact is, we all have the same goal of finding the right mate and despite how we go about it, we are going to face some these problems.  So, what do WE need to do to succeed in these changing times?

Here's my thoughts.  First of all education to this process has always been key.  I didn't list education as a problem above since if your're reading this, you've probably read many more of the posts on this board and are already being educated.  These boards are key to our success as they are excellent for exchanging information and obtaining some education in this process.  I'm assuming that being a member of this board you are doing your homework/research which is always the first step you should do when you take on something new in life.   Once you have the basic education (this process is a never ending educational process) then comes the real hurdles.

To overcome the hurdles listed above, why not form a not-for-profit agency that involves assisting those of us interested in this pursuit.  Here is how I would invision such an organization:  The goal of the organization would be to help Ukrainians via teaching them the knowledge of many of the skills that many of us have regarding, the English language, business, banking, real estate, etc.  Now before you laugh, you need to take a look at an organization that is currently doing this but not incorporating our goals.  This is not a plug for them, but their concept is good and could be modified to fit our needs and goals.  The organization is http://www.globalvolunteers.org/1main/ukraine/volunteer_in_ukraine.htm

Now obviously our primary goal is to meet sincere ladies for marriage.  So we would have to mix the volunteer work with meeting ladies.  Essentially what you have is a marriage agency with a different concept that allows you to contribute something to Ukraine, allows you to meet ladies that would not typically ues the MOB process for meeting someone and at the same time get a tax deduction on some of your costs.

Of course, university age ladies are not the age the majority of us are interested in (well at least not for a long term relationship such as a wife).  However, they are a source of interpreters and future contacts whose primary interest (at least not initially) is not your wallet.  In addition, its much easier to build a trusting interpreter relationship with someone that you are mutually benefiting that does not involve $10/hour.  So how do you meet those ladies that are not university age ladies?  Well the agency would need to get involved in not only volunteer work for the university, but also the community.  The model could involve many opportunities in meeting ladies through casual contacts (such as helping single ladies and moms with workshops, repairs to their flats, etc.) as well as some organized small intimate socials.  I unfortunately do not have all the answers.  However, the model could incorporate such things as an agency that has connections in a lot of cities (for example First Dream that does small intimate socials, and I'm not plugging them but rather using them as an example).  In fact, since I am not interested in starting or running an agency, I would hope some visionary person on this board that already does, leads the way.

 I'm sincerely thinking about my next trip over there and how I can do something different to meet a different source of ladies rather than taking the same beaten path.  Your thoughts and flames?

[Elen]

I think if such organisation would have a success Ukraines should change the words of their hymn ("Ще не вмерла Україна) Because there will be no women at Ukraine at all as they all will migrate to the West

[deden]

and we would accept them with open arms

[Elen]

ha-ha-ha Never heard such saying "When God wish to punish us he fulfils our wishes":P:P

[deden]

yep, and looking forward to it

[TheArrow]

ha-ha-ha Never heard such saying "When God wish to punish us he fulfils our wishes":P:P

When God wants to punish - he takes off your mind. I heard tgis saying and never heard that one.

[in_phoenix]

There are lots of discussions regarding what is the best way to meet sincere women.  Personally, I believe it is possible to do it any way you want, however each way has its associated degree of risk.  Of course, we all want to decrease our degree of risk and get the best results from our investment (time, money, feelings, etc.)  All methods of pursuit will eventually get you to where you want to be, some will just take a whole lot longer because of the higher risks you have accepted in how you go about this.  In addition to what is the best way, having read a post somewhere on this board started by Marc discussing the changes in the "MOB" business leads me to believe what may have been successful approaches in the past may not necessarily be what will be best tomorrow.  While you can argue that much has not changed in this process or it has changed drastically, the arguments don't really matter, what matters is how do we adapt to the the changes since our goal has not changed.

When I first started going down this road in 1997/1998, there wasn't near the agencies that there are today nor the attention that is now focused on this process.  Having been out of the process for the last couple of years and now re-entering it, I can definately say that the process is changing.  So while I have some some experience from this process in the past, in reality I'm re-entering a different enviornment than when I left it.  So in a sense, I have some of the same concerns as many of the new guys just starting out have.

So I'll identify what I think are some of the major hurdles in this process are and how I think might be a new way to overcome them (that'll be your chance to flame me).

The first issue is finding what you think are sincere ladies to write to.  I think we can all agree this is typically the first step in the process once a person commits to it.  How mwn do this varies from free sites to agencies to ads, etc.  Each has its own risk/reward associated with it.  The bottom line is you need a pool of sincere ladies willing to write and then you have to sort through them to identify which ones might meet what you are seeking.

The second real issue I think is the time issue that most have in actually spending over there one on one with the ladies to really sort them out and narrow them down based on things like chemistry, etc.  The pre time of writing and identifying ladies that might match what you are looking for is practically unlimited.  You can spend any amout of time doing this since it is done here in the US after work at your computer.  But sooner or later we gotta get on the big bird and go see them.  The problem is, most guys have limited vacation time to do this.  So it usually means several trips over the course of a year or two or as in my case, longer.  This leads to the next problem.

The third problem if you are going to do this is it is going to cost money.  I think we can all agree that if you are going to attempt this in the first place you need sufficient financial resources, but aside from that, we all want to get the most out of our financial investment.  No one wants to throw money away, get ripped off, etc.  The money concerns usually starts from the letter writing and continus through the trip planning (finding an interpreter to renting a flat, etc).  Because we have already identified that the process could take several trips, the cost will be somewhat significant overall.  Now some guys have more financial resources than others so some will utilize their resources differently.

And finally, I would say the other major problem is the global issue of the industry itself.  Things are different than they were back in the mid to late 90's.  Some for the good, some for the worse.  There is more competition with the number of agencies, more people trying to profit off of you (both scamming and non-scamming), more awareness over there that you will pay more than Ukrainians will for the same services, more men doing this, bad image some Americans and others have casted on this process, and on and on and on.  Again, I don't think all of these are necessarily bad, just that things are changing all the time.  And as such, we as well need to adapt to these changes.

Sure there are other problems as well as some of these problems maynot apply to some of you.  But the fact is, we all have the same goal of finding the right mate and despite how we go about it, we are going to face some these problems.  So, what do WE need to do to succeed in these changing times?

Here's my thoughts.  First of all education to this process has always been key.  I didn't list education as a problem above since if your're reading this, you've probably read many more of the posts on this board and are already being educated.  These boards are key to our success as they are excellent for exchanging information and obtaining some education in this process.  I'm assuming that being a member of this board you are doing your homework/research which is always the first step you should do when you take on something new in life.   Once you have the basic education (this process is a never ending educational process) then comes the real hurdles.

To overcome the hurdles listed above, why not form a not-for-profit agency that involves assisting those of us interested in this pursuit.  Here is how I would invision such an organization:  The goal of the organization would be to help Ukrainians via teaching them the knowledge of many of the skills that many of us have regarding, the English language, business, banking, real estate, etc.  Now before you laugh, you need to take a look at an organization that is currently doing this but not incorporating our goals.  This is not a plug for them, but their concept is good and could be modified to fit our needs and goals.  The organization is http://www.globalvolunteers.org/1main/ukraine/volunteer_in_ukraine.htm

Now obviously our primary goal is to meet sincere ladies for marriage.  So we would have to mix the volunteer work with meeting ladies.  Essentially what you have is a marriage agency with a different concept that allows you to contribute something to Ukraine, allows you to meet ladies that would not typically ues the MOB process for meeting someone and at the same time get a tax deduction on some of your costs.

Of course, university age ladies are not the age the majority of us are interested in (well at least not for a long term relationship such as a wife).  However, they are a source of interpreters and future contacts whose primary interest (at least not initially) is not your wallet.  In addition, its much easier to build a trusting interpreter relationship with someone that you are mutually benefiting that does not involve $10/hour.  So how do you meet those ladies that are not university age ladies?  Well the agency would need to get involved in not only volunteer work for the university, but also the community.  The model could involve many opportunities in meeting ladies through casual contacts (such as helping single ladies and moms with workshops, repairs to their flats, etc.) as well as some organized small intimate socials.  I unfortunately do not have all the answers.  However, the model could incorporate such things as an agency that has connections in a lot of cities (for example First Dream that does small intimate socials, and I'm not plugging them but rather using them as an example).  In fact, since I am not interested in starting or running an agency, I would hope some visionary person on this board that already does, leads the way.

 I'm sincerely thinking about my next trip over there and how I can do something different to meet a different source of ladies rather than taking the same beaten path.  Your thoughts and flames?

Ummm, don't they have something like this, the American House located in Vladimir?  In my search for knowledge on Russia I have read a lot.  One thing I came accross was this American House.  Sounds like they do what you are talking about as well.  Although not a dating agency, I don't see why you could not volunteer on their time and then on your time search for a nice woman while you are there.

[deden]

I think the point I was trying to make is that what most of us are already doing could qualify as a tax break if an agency existed with this as their primary focus.

My example using the link to global volunteers establishes that teaching conversational English to citizens of Ukraine is already an accepted basis for establishing a non profit organization and for volunteers to recieve a tax deduction for their expenses (airline tickets, lodging, meals, etc.).  Also, I doubt anyone could argue that women are  precieved as a class (even here in the US) as being economically disadvantaged.  Since English is the language of international business and therefore an understanding of English could inhance the opportunity to succeed why not teach conversational English to Ukrainian women?  Seems reasonable?  I don't think anyone would argue they are not economically disadvantaged.

So, you have a not-for-profit agency that has a base of beautiful Ukrainian women that needs to learn conversational English (sounds like most marriage agencies to me).  You have men who are willing to teach conversational English to these women that want to learn it (sounds like most of us).  You have a program that puts the two together (again sounds like the marriage agencies) where the men teach the ladies in an evening class conversational English as well as individual 1 on 1 lessons ( sounds like the way we already arrange to meet them) where they could do this with one or a number of them (isn't that what we do anyway when we are there?). 

So what's the advantage?  1) the trip becomes tax deductible 2) the image is totally different- Q: Why are you going to Ukraine?  A: I'm going over there with a not-for-profit organization to teach English  Q: How did you meet your wife?  A: She was a student in my class where I volunteered to teach English in Ukraine for a not-for-profit organization. 3) by teaching a group lesson during a couple of evenings a week, you meet more ladies that you may not otherwise have met 4) the agency can advertise they that give free conversational English lessons 5) the agency can invite ladies not affiliated with the agency to participate that want to learn English thereby improving their local image as well as a source for new ladies 6) you're giving something back to those who never leave Ukraine 7) You draw more men into your agency because the image is much better and they can actually do something that is positive for the women of Ukraine.

What's the disadvantages?  The tax payer has to supplement your travel (lol) and meeting of FSU women.  Is it legal?  As long as your primary and substantive activities (at least 6-8 hours per day five days per week) is volunteering to meet the goals and objectives of the project you are working on for the not-for-profit agency (which involves teaching conversational English to disadvantaged, and might I add beautiful, Russian women to better enable them to succeed in a predominantly English speaking business world), hell yeah!  (Disclaimer- I'm not an attorney just my opinion after reading the tax codes on what is deductible when volunteering).  Men could also give some talks on other issues regarding America, business, real estate, etc. to these ladies that would meet the goals and objectives of the not-for-profit agency.

So, rather than doing this as two separate activities, it could be combined into one meeting the goals of both.  But that requires a visionary US owned and operated agency to lead the way.  Something not likely to happen.  Which is odd since most of the agencies are foriegn owned and wouldn't even be able to compete with the ability to offer a tax deductible trip.

Of course the profit the agency makes would be paid in salary to the CEO and its board members as well as donations to Ukrainian orphanages.  So agencies should not think "not-for-profit" doesn't mean they don't make money!  I suspect the real reason an agency wouldn't want to do this is the public accounting the would have regarding their profits.

The other way this could be done would be for several guys on this board to create this organization using the services of already established marriage agencies over there (kind of like what some agencies already do) as their pool of ladies that need to learn conversational English.  The organization would offer the "trips or tours or whatever you want to call them" as opportunites to volunteer teaching conversational English to Ukrainian women to better educate them for the future!

Again, just a thought.  Actually suprised no agency owners have commented on this topic since you would think they might have a better insight.