Estonia

[av8or1]

The point is, less experienced members (Like me, Rivardco, DKMM, Avi8or, and others) are here because we appreciate the information and advice we get from the experienced posters.

Kuna,

Uhhh...I don't know where you're drawing the line between "less" and (presumably) "more" experienced members of RWD, but I've made 11 trips now and I will leave next Friday on my 12th, so I'd appreciate a little more respect.   I'm hardly a newbie at this thing...

DKMM: Good luck on your Carib trip, I'll look forward to hearing how it went for ya.  I hope you'll be enjoying the warmer weather while I'll be freezing in Tver!

Best to all,

Jerry

[Mir]

Groov

Well I have no idea what you look like but I will also be polite to you.
If you really believe the TR by AO about his visit to Dominican rep then I think you will believe anything.
However I see no reason for me and you who don't know each other to get into an argument over someone who has to hide behind shadows to post his TRs.
Gave a nice day

[DKMM]

Not trying to dissuade you rivardco, but I thought I was pretty experienced with women too until I started this RW thing.  Its like starting over again learning new rules.  You will see just how different it is when you make your 1st trip there.  However, I'm sure most of you have more experience in women in general simply due to my age.

That being said, without my months of study on this board I would have been far less prepared, I can't even imagine how bad I would have fallen on my face.

There I've done it, gone OT on my own TR thread.  But its pretty much over and I'd like to thank you all for talking me through it.  Its so annoying when my friends I've known all my life have no idea what I'm telling them when it comes to this business. OK so the latest is she sent me a SMS from Russia for the 1st time and it was just to thank me for the cd i made her.  I didn't give her my American # recently so she must have kept it from a while ago.  

[jb]

Not trying to dissuade you rivardco, but I thought I was pretty experienced with women too until I started this RW thing.  Its like starting over again learning new rules.  You will see just how different it is when you make your 1st trip there.

This is an entirely true statement.  Nothing you've ever done will adequately prepare you for dating Russian women.  Most men come home after their first trip and almost all comment on the bluntness of Russians.  Their abruptness is sometimes startling.  I have been married for 5 years to a RW and I believe some of that is due to them being speakers of a second language, even those girls who work as translators, Russian women just don't have a liar's vocabulary.  Since they don't have the words gild the Lilly, or to be coy, they are apt to just tell it like is.  Most of us are not accustomed to women being that honest with us.

This is part of the basis for my saying that; "If a RW likes you, she will let you know it".  If she feels the chemistry, you can easily see the animation in her eyes as she struggles to communicate, she will flirt outrageously, by that I mean she will send all the visuals, raised eyebrows, arched neck, tossing her hair, cocking her head to one side as she speaks, smiling at the sound of your voice, erect posture to show off her physical charms to the best advantage.  By the end of the 2nd date, she will, in public, be picking imaginary lint off your jacket, this is a clear signal to other women that you are off the market. 

If a man who has little experience with women goes to the FSU he will very likely be fooled by Russian politeness, but if the woman is slouching in her seat, not making direct eye contact, not smiling or laughing at your lame jokes, not walking close by your side with her arm linked with yours, then you should make some excuse and move on.  No matter how beautiful she is, she just isn't all that interested in going to the next level and you'd be wasting your time, and hers, to continue tying to force the issue. 

A man must learn to read the road signage to navigate this successfully.  Otherwise you are just spinning your wheels.

[Leslie]

Well DKMM,

Words are treacherous things…

On December 9th you said-

“Soooo, there really is no spark, and she's not the same fun girl that i chatted with every night at all.  A lesson to be learned here is the obvious one, you can talk forever without meeting but in person the chemistry can be totally different.”

Absolutely no chemistry.

And when you parted company on December11th –

“We go to the airport and they follow me to security.  Its not like in St. Pete, I could she wasn't all that sad to see me leave.  And quite frankly I wasn't sad either, I was sad to see her parents off though. “

Yes. You are certain there is no mutual affection

On the same day you tell me –

“If I wanted a sex tour, I have a choice of some hot ladies here in town that would go with me at the drop of a hat. “

Oh yeah and the tooth fairy leaves titanium dental implants !

And finally On the 13th December

“So I'm going for certain.  Now to keep J from going I'd have to give her money back, spend even more money to take a local , and forever lose my current best friend over there.  That would be stupid... her not going is simply not an option.”

The only reason a guy would entertain a situation like this is because the only date his “piske” has had in an awful long while is his left hand…

You are presenting as a very sad young man who desperately needs to get a life.  Have you got an adult sister or a close female friend?  If so I suggest you talk this situation though.  You need a female perspective to give a sense of proportion to your behaviour.

[Leslie]

Phil,

This is not the place for us to have a personal arguement.  If you want to continue may I suggest you open a thread in NHB? 

[Darth Vader]

Well, DKMM,

You are getting a lot of suggestions here, from newbies to oldtimers.

On the surface, it might appear that Leslie and Gator disagree.  But if you look at the big picture, they really don't.

I'll add my advice now and pick up some wisdom from both of these vets...

1)  It is folly to write one girl and to visit one girl.  The odds are VASTLY against you having chemistry with ONE foreign girl.  You need a bigger sample size to get significance.

2)  As long as you have the time and money and love adventure, why not do what you did?  As long as newbies know that this is the exception and not the rule, I have no problem with it.

JB has written eloquently about chemistry and how an FSU girl's body language "shows" you that she is deeply interested in you.  And he is correct.

HOWEVER, I've also known cases where chemistry was not instant.  For example, when I met my future wife, we were both casual with one another.  I had two dates with her over a 10 day period, and then left for the US. 

We did text messaging for the next month, and got together next time I was in her part of the world. 

Now she is my wife of two years, and we have a deep, deep love and are simply perfect together, in every aspect. 

Chemistry grew.

[DKMM]

Hmm, well Leslie it seems you want to have a personal argument, so I find it odd you make posts like that and follow up with a claim to not want to get personal with anybody.

I thought it would make sense to you since everyone else seems to get it.  I'll repost it here in summary:  We don't have much if anything going for us.  She does want to go with me and I have a desire to go with her.  Given the relative lack of viable alternatives, I am still going to go with her despite the high probability no romance will occur.  I couldn't care less if we ever have sex.

If I wanted, my other option are two good looking local gals (nothing approaching J though) who would love to go and are in between jobs so they have no time restrictions.  Neither are close to wife material, I've dated both, but remain friends more or less.  You may choose not to believe me, but I don't really care.  

I've already talked with several female friends and they support me still going, except one that wants to go in her place!

And yes Darth I agree with you. 

[jb]

Darth,

HOWEVER, I've also known cases where chemistry was not instant.  For example, when I met my future wife, we woth casual with one another.  I had two dates with her over a 10 day period, and then left for the US.
We did text messaging for the next month, and got together next time I was in her part of the world. 

Just curious because you only had two dates in 10 days, but when you guys got back together, did she exhibit any of the above female possessive behavior?   Generally speaking an interwested RW will move more quickly than that.  Frankly I'm surprised she gave you the time of day if she thought you were dating a few other women at the time and would only give her a 1/10th of your time.  She must have thought you were very special to have perservered past the cut off point.

Just an observation.

[jinx13]

DKMM,

 You have the right attitude, it was a mistake on your part to go with this girl, but it can't be changed, so just go and see what happens! As long as you don't let her dictate your mood, you can have a good time, and just maybe she will enjoy herself too.

 I could relate to your story about the meeting in her home city. My first trip (WOVO) I had a similar experience. She was hot and cold, one minute showing affection and friendly, the next distant and aloof. After I came home I expected things to cool off after what I considered an unsuccessful trip. Well she wrote to me that she had the best time of her life, and she opened up to me even more. We broke up at the next meeting, but there were other circumstances. So you never know, she could be the same shy and reserved girl, or something could change and be more willing to make an effort. My advice would be to hope for the best but expect the worst. Good luck to you, and have fun! - David

[Darth Vader]

Just curious because you only had two dates in 10 days, but when you guys got back together, did she exhibit any of the above female possessive behavior?   Generally speaking an interwested RW will move more quickly than that.  Frankly I'm surprised she gave you the time of day if she thought you were dating a few other women at the time and would only give her a 1/10th of your time.  She must have thought you were very special to have perservered past the cut off point.

Just an observation.

Yes, she displayed all the possessive behaviors you have noted the second time we were together.

The landscape has changed so much in the FSU the last 5 years.  IMHO, she was feeling me out the first time to make sure I was serious and not just a sex tourist.  She had run into a few of those and was not interested.  As for me, I took her initial disinterest as a bad sign, because I believe an interested FSU girl will SHOW the man she is interested.

From that second meeting on, she claimed me and threatened to KILL any woman that showed an interest in me.

Ours was an anomaly.