Meeting one Russian woman on your first trip?

[Michelangelo]

I'll make no comments on the posts that preceded me.  I'll simply comment on the subject "Meeting one Russian woman on your first trip?"

If you are a guy who likes to play the lottery, go for it.  If not, don't play this lottery with one chip.

The odds of connecting with one girl on one trip are astronomically high.

[TwoBitBandit]

Jack's comments are right on.

My very first trip looking for a wife was a visit-one trip.  I went to Omsk.

I knew after two or three days that this was not the woman for me.  She was an honest woman, a sincere woman.  She was attractive, educated, intelligent and dressed well.  She will be (or perhaps already is) a great wife for the right guy.  But, she was not the right woman for me.

By the time I had gotten to that point, I already had so much invested.  I had negotiated the time off from work, paid for the ticket, gotten the visa, written and received 100 letters.  The letters we wrote were like a symphony, we had great chemistry on paper.

So, after the three days I thought "I should just hang on, maybe I'm just not giving it a chance."  And so for another week after that we both held on, riding it out through lots of misunderstandings and wierd moments.  We just could not quite understand one another.

In the end, it didn't work.

Now, I've dated somewhere about 80 Russian girls.  I've tried just about every strategy at this point... WOVO, WMVM, WSVS...  At this point, for about every four girls I meet, I might have a second date with one of them.

I don't think it is necessary for every guy looking for a Russian wife to date 80 girls.  It's expensive and time-consuming.  But, there's a lot of wisdom in meeting several in every city.  After meeting many women, it becomes really easy to objectively ask:
1.  Is she close to what I am looking for?
2.  Is she into me as much as I am into her?

The first time you go to Russia, you realize that your dating pool is much larger than in the states.  You really need to get over the "wow factor" of that and stop drooling before you can get objective and start thinking with your big head.

Writing letters can tell you a lot, but you'll learn much more from an hour in-person.  You really don't know much about a woman until you get off the plane and meet her.

You write-one-visit-one guys are just asking for trouble, and especially so if you don't have a lot of dating experience.

Even if you are truly a "WOVO" person and want to use that strategy in the long term, I recommend that you do at least one visit-many trip early in your search.  It will give you a lot of perspective.

[Son of Clyde]

Who says I would lie to the woman? I am a WOVO kind of guy and I could never handle more than one woman unless I wanted to contact another woman as a backup plan. I was writing to 2 or 3 women before I realized that my wife was the one. I only went to Ukraine to visit her. I was making a comment based on guys who are visiting more than one woman. You must be discreet. If you are up front and honest with them it might be ok with them if you visit another woman after you have been with her. Some guys, I am sure, have had to lie to a woman hoping to spare her feelings. This can also backfire.

[SANDRO43]

i thought such databases were available only in Russia 

Are they really ? Where, where ?

[Son of Clyde]

I meant indirectly in my first post that some guys may be lying after they have had intimacy with a woman only to go and meet another. Maybe it is just the way I am thinking that when you have sex with a woman you are forming a special bond and you are beyond the friendship stage with that person. Why meet anyone else on that trip after you have bonded with one special woman? If the intention is to have a sex tour it is one thing but most guys want a real relationship. Sometimes my Catholic upbringing shines through. But on the other hand Catholics want everyone to remain celibate until marriage.

[El Rock]

I used to  believe that to , it's unrealistic  and idealistic thinking , though.

Every one lies , those who say they don't  ,,, are lying,,,,  and inexperienced in life .
That is a good thing  , so , don't get upset  at me  for writing it  .

Rock

I think lying in any form, even if you think its for the best, is disrespect.. Telling the truth and accepting the consequenses is what would be expected from a gentleman.

[Gator]

El Rock, 

Not everyone!  There are four groups.

Some people simply do not lie if you ignore telling a kid about Santa Claus or his girlfriend that her arse looks good in the size 14 jeans.  Next is the group of people that when they lie they feel guilty about it, so much that it is rare for them to lie.  Then there are people who lie through their teeth and feel no remorse.  And finally there is a group that deceives people regularly, feels no remorse and thinks that the other person is an idiot and deserves to be lied to.  There is a fifth group - psychotics who can not distinguish truth from untruth in their own minds. 

The third and fourth groups have troubled social relationships.

Which group are you in?

[CaptB]

I came to this thread late. I read Jack's in initial post and a few others. My main reason for meeting more than one woman.......is (I believe)......the reasoning behind Jack's opinion. In answer to Shadow......yes.......most men traveling to the FSU are not "virgins" and many (not all) have had a rich dating life..................here in the states. But in the context of a different culture (i.e. Russian)...........they are virgins. Russian women have some real differences in their social make-up.......as opposed to AW. I think meeting several RW will give you a more balanced opinion of RW in general. As jack says.......I have met many who decided the man was not for them early-on in the meeting......but out of a sense of responsibility for his well-being........played nice........possibly giving him a false impression of her intentions. This may very well be a very nice woman......but ultimately not interested in him. I have met a few (less so) who would state that she had no "romantic" interest in him.......and any more time spent together would be wasted.

Vaughn was lucky......as are several other couples who wovo.......and became happily married..................but many more crashed and burned with this method. The biggest reason to meet several RW.........to have a more balanced opinion of what an RW is in the context of "their" culture.

To Aya,

I agree that many women would find "socials".....for instance.......degrading. How would I really feel if a RW were flying here to meet me......and several other men? I would feel just fine. As with all women I have dated........I would want them to find the right man for themselves. When I was younger......I was more jealous......more wanting to control the situation...........but ignorant. I really believed that being fairly attractive and being a good and honest person.......should be enough. It was'nt. Many men......and women........wan't someone so bad........they ignore the other element..........."chemistry". You can't force it......you can't "make" it happen........it just is......or is not. I learned from my divorce........and in the next few years following.......I learned alot about women. I began to have alot of fun.......just dating........and not letting inflated expectations ruin things. Many of the women I dated.......are still among my friends. I even introduced one or two to "their" life partners. I can never understand "angry" break-ups between dating couples. If you are using an agency.......the women registered with them know the score. The RW "know" you will be meeting several or many women. But the part that RW who complain about men meeting many men forget is..........the women at the agency also have many men coming to see "them". In an agency situation......it is really a two-way street. The RW I met in Tver and had a serious relationship with (before I met my wife)......saw more than a dozen men while I was there. Before I arrived she had met with dozens of men. We decided mutually on the same day, but unknown to each other (through our interpreter).......to discontinue meeting others. Ultimately things did not work out. I am glad that I got to meet many RW. That experience led to eventually meeting my wife.

Even if you are an experienced dater in the US........you will find Russian women are a little different. It is really helpful to have the experience of meeting several. It would be difficult for me to accept that "one" person will be representative of an entire culture. The only way you can be certain that what you are experiencing with an RW is a cultural.......or personal trait........is the experience of meeting "many". It is even more helpful to meet young, old, male, female........the culture as a whole. Cultural issues will color your married life........guaranteed!

Capt B

[Son of Clyde]

I don't think any AM and RW marriage is going to start off perfect.
There are too many cultural differences to completely understand one another. Some guys said their girlfriends were thankful for any monetary amount the guy gave them. Many women are grateful for the most minute bit of support. Don't forget that these women, when they are older, become parents and have ex spouses. A single woman (a decent one) will most likely be grateful for anything you give her while a divorced woman is used to more, for survival. You need more to survive with a child and these women must go to work when they divorce their husbands. I have changed my mind about the financial needs of a RW and child. They require more support. My wife can go overboard sometimes with shopping but she is frugal in many other ways.
This process is not easy for a guy with experience with marriage and having children. I have done this with some advice from the board but mostly on my own. I think our marriage is secure since my wife speaks of the future with me and not only the present with me. She is thinking ahead to when I retire and we can move to NC and our son can graduate from high school and attend college. Hope this is not too much off subject but I don't think El Rock has a clue.
CaptB, I also posted this as a result of your "crash and burn" comment. I could easily have given up and sent them back because it was "too difficult" but I learned about responsibility. I brought them here for a reason (love and companionship) and I accepted that it might not be easy. When you love someone you accept the responsibility of what goes along with the relationship. If I did it all over it would still be WOVO.

[CaptB]

Clyde,

A high percentage of "crash n burns" with the WOVO method is just a fact of this process........not particularly just my opinion. It has nothing to do with your ability to try your hardest for success. I hope yourself.......and "all" others wil always "try hard". The truth is on a large percentage of these trips WOVO.....either the RW.....the AW......or both....will deside they have not found their partner. If the RWG had not eliminated hundreds of trip reports from the "Trip Reports" archive........after reading a dozen or so WOVO trip reports......you would see a pattern of many........not working out.

My advocating visiting more than one women......has nothing to do with respecting  and RW's feelings. I do respect their feelings. And because I do.......I (personally) would not
write for an extended period of time.......getting her hopes up (and yours)......only to find all the efforts and emotional wear and tear..........evaporates shortly after meeting. All of the women that I came to see......knew I was their to meet several. The women I chose were "mature". They knew such a trip was expensive. By giving them a brief intro letter and telling them I would like to meet them in a few weeks.......I think was the kinder thing to do.
No "dear Jane" letters.......after a weeding out process (telling her she is not suitable.....yet you never even "met"). I think you can get a stronger impression of the person meeting for one day.......than in several months of correspondence. If this statement were untrue.....how can one explain AM, RW or both parties.......deciding they have not found a suitable partner..........after meeting a short time........after all of that "long" correspondence.
(that was supposed to provide real knowledge of that person).

Long correspondence and high expectations.............and then a decission by one or both parties that they have not found their partner......may not in the long-run.......neccessarily be the "kindest" route after all. Visiting many could be better for all .........if done properly and with complete honesty between all parties). Just some food thought.


Capt B


P.S. By the way......I found my wife by WOVO. I had made five trips to Russia previously. I had dated many RW and had two relationships with two RW. As Jack stated....and I agree....it is more beneficial to experience dating several RW......as there really are cutural differences that will color your lifelong relationship with them. Meeting only one RW will not give a well-rounded view......of Russian women......or their culture......in general.

[IAmZon]

It is a revelation to learn that there are 15,000 rather beautiful, rather supportive and traditional women, willing to meet INSTANTLY with a serious consideration to marriage.  And that a wide percentage of these women will consider a man in ANY league.

That in itself can easily create something of an obsession.  Certainly, it creates fantasies and raised expectations.  And, I believe, letters may fuel these. 

Every method can work for someone.  There is not ONE answer!  But I have taken FULL appreciation to Jack's advise.  All letter writting would do for me (did for me), is ultimately narrow my set of possibilities - and maybe without cause! 

And that is before I have gone through the "WOW FACTOR"!  To protect one's decision-making process, one must assume Jack's advice to be the best. 

AND THEN, what happens after you have met and selected a woman to be "serious" about.  How can you go through an adequate deliberation process through vacations, letters, and phone calls???  I am sure that will represent the bulk of my posts in the future.

[ScottinCrimea]

The more posts that I read in this forum, the more I realize how lucky I was.  I wrote to two, narrowed it down to one, came to meet only one, and after three years and marriage, the wow factor is there stronger than ever.  I only wish that everyone else here could have it so good.

[jb]

Scott,

I have to agree with you, during my ex-pat time in Russia I met a large number of very attractive Russian women, but when I when back looking for that *one*,  the one that really rang my bells,,, it was strictly WOVO.  I didn't need a lot of distractions.

[Kuna]

The more posts that I read in this forum, the more I realize how lucky I was.  I wrote to two, narrowed it down to one, came to meet only one, and after three years and marriage, the wow factor is there stronger than ever.  I only wish that everyone else here could have it so good.

Scott,

I have to agree with you, during my ex-pat time in Russia I met a large number of very attractive Russian women, but when I when back looking for that *one*,  the one that really rang my bells,,, it was strictly WOVO.  I didn't need a lot of distractions.

Scott and jb...

Maybe you were lucky men... maybe you were just wise???

Can you tell us about your "critical thought process" if there was any, when you were writing before arriving in FSU?

Scott, I remember your story... AMAZING!  I just wonder if you both were able to find "success" when writing to one (or a very few) by the way you managed your perceptions and expectations?

What were your initial wants/don't wants? 

Did you compromise on any of those criteria?

What were the unexpected "bonuses" you'd never considered?


Kuna

[CaptB]

jb,

Although you did go back WOVO........you had alot of experience in Russia......and meeting RW...........before........that occured. You had already known her a long time......before pursuing a relationship. My recomendation of agency help....among other suggestions.....is for the guys going on a first trip.......stone-cold. Your experience.....and comfort zone.....was at a completely different level.........long before "your" WOVO. Luckily for you....."Etna".......made it easier for you.........in figuring out what "you" wanted.


Capt B