opening lines

[Rumpy]

Going to try and write a coulple of letters on a free sight for a little practice

Any pointers ,,,should I just copy and past to multiple ,,,20 or so

anyone have from there experiance what they like to hear ???

Are Ukrainian woman that much different tha Russian?

[Rumpy]

OK ,,,heres the first one

I was looking into some of the things that you have wrote in your discriptions and see some of the things I may be looking for in a great woman.Your pictures are beautiful,I cant compliment you enough on them .I hope to hear back from you and if not,good luck in your search to find a great man.You deserve the best,dont get discouraged.

CHEEZY ?   need feed back fellas and wives

[Turboguy]

Yes, cut and paste your first letter but personalize it.   Perhaps use her name, perhaps comment about something in her profile. 

You need to tell her a little about yourself so she will want to write you back.

Give her some statistics, personality traits,  work, hobbies, what you look for.    Make it warm, friendly and informative.   Not too long, not too short.

[Kuna]

Rumpy,

The only thing I'm experienced in is letter writing and telephone calls...  I'm a newbie too and about to take my first trip BUT maybe I can share what my thought process was before I started writing.

1. I didn't start writing until I booked my ticket... but then again I had to book almost 3 months ahead of time...

2. I didn't compliment the girls I wrote to on their looks.  I know from home that hot girls get lots of compliments about their looks but ALL genuine girls want someone to appreciate what's inside. (Even hotties wake up in the morning, look in the mirror and want to change something about themselves!)   Some women WILL use their looks to get what they want but that's not the type of girl I'm interested in.  If you focus on getting to understand what's inside you might be pleasantly surprised at how beautiful any girl can be!

3. I wrote personalised letters and several girls commented on that.  It seems that many men take the lazy way out and send off impersonal "adverts" in the form of an email.  Any girl that sent me canned reponses didn't make the list either by the way...

4.  As for telling them what they'd "like to hear"... This is just my personal opinion but I wouldn't tell them what they want to hear.  I'd tell them the truth.  I define success in this journey to be a LONGTERM, fulfilling and loving relationship, not "getting married".  If you just want to get married you can do that in many ways, BUT you might end up finding the wrong woman... and that's when the problems will start!

5. Before I wrote letters I put a lot of thought into my "goes/no goes".  What did I want... what could I live with...  what was a show stopper.  I've generally been able to stick to these but I DEFINITELY wouldn't have varied far from my original criteria.  I'd suggest you really get your "Key Selection Criteria" sorted before selecting women to write to.

6. When I wrote my letters I asked questions about them, only gave the essential info about me (like Turbo noted but I left plenty of room for them to ask questions), but I DID tell them what I would DO.  I feel that "the right women" wants to hear about actions.  Are you serious?  Tell them!  What makes you serious?  Oh, you're booked and going?  Tell them!  It definitely got me the right sort of attention...

These are just my personal opinions and their certainly not proven yet...  Perhaps others can add some more ideas but at the end of the day i think it's most important to show them that you're serious AND the thing WE must stay focused on is the personal qualities NOT their looks.  There's plenty of beautiful women there...  I want to find one with and equally beautiful character.

Kuna

[Vaughn]

And here we are on RWD, proclaiming "it's a Form Letter!"

Rumpy, be selective! Write each one individually and as Turbo
said, make 'em warm. Be honest, USE SPELL CHECK brother!

Don't cut & paste dude.

[TexasBoar]

The only "form letter" part should be the one short paragraph where you tell her a little about yourself. Work on that sucker until you can run it through an online translation program and back again and still understand it.

Tailor the rest to her profile.  Ask a few questions.  Be personable, honest, and direct.

Even a woman who says she speaks good English may be using a dictionary or translation program, so write in simple, grammatical sentences (I've found that parentheses, semicolons, . . . , and --- just don't fly.  Make sure each sentence says ONE thing.)

And spellcheck, spellcheck, spellcheck.

~Boar

[Kuna]

Even a woman who says she speaks good English may be using a dictionary or translation program, so write in simple, grammatical sentences (I've found that parentheses, semicolons, . . . , and --- just don't fly.  Make sure each sentence says ONE thing.)

And spellcheck, spellcheck, spellcheck.

VERY good advice!

[Rumpy]

Kuna

You are a wise man and I am very interested on how your trip is going to go,,,You seem like your dropping the hammer very fast and getting on with this on overtime,,,Good for you,,,I myself plan on next year for my visit,I am working very hard on my masters in manufacturing rite now.

Vaughn ,I am going to try and be selective and try and make it more personal

When its important I always use spell check,I write to many technical documents for the automotive industry not to do that ,,,my spelling is horrible as i'm sure many of you have noticed   ( there is an old saying that Engineers and Designers cant spell and I fit the mold to a tee),,but give me 8000 parts that have to go on a vehicle in 2 hours and I'm in my glory

[Kuna]

Kuna

You are a wise man and I am very interested on how your trip is going to go,,,You seem like your dropping the hammer very fast and getting on with this on overtime,,,Good for you,,,I myself plan on next year for my visit,I am working very hard on my masters in manufacturing rite now.

Thanks Rumpy... I'm also interested in how my trip will go...   

Just a quick comment on timing.  I think one of the things that kept the scammers away from me was knowing I was visiting soon...  I think it was Gator who suggested they wouldn't waste time building the scam if they knew I was arriving in the very near future...

Also... be aware that the girls aren't interested in prolonged correspondence.  If they're serious they'll expect to meet you in the "not too distant future".  they don't want pen pals... they want "a family" (which apparently is Husband and Wife by the way, not specifically children as well).

Kuna

[BillyB]

OK ,,,heres the first one

I was looking into some of the things that you have wrote in your discriptions and see some of the things I may be looking for in a great woman.Your pictures are beautiful,I cant compliment you enough on them .I hope to hear back from you and if not,good luck in your search to find a great man.You deserve the best,dont get discouraged.

CHEEZY ?   need feed back fellas and wives

Grammar problems everywhere. You need to use spellcheck. Before writing the next word after periods and commas, leave a space. Use apostrophes in words like can't and don't.

You can display your intelligence or lack of by what and how you write. Some women need to translate your words. If many of the words don't translate, they will assume you're not educated or a rocket scientist that uses terminology that translators aren't up to speed on.

Don't tell them "you deserve the best". You don't know them enough to make that judgement. Don't tell the women not to get discouraged, they are probably happy enough if they are not writing back to you.

You may briefly say something about their beauty but don't go overboard, women know you're not writing to women that you're not attracted to.

In all reality, we shouldn't be telling you how to write or what to write. If you start being someone you're not, it could come back to haunt you.

[viking]

Kuna

Just be aware that there are pro-daters who DO want you to visit soon. And they are even more clever than the other scammers. And the sooner the better, to get into your wallet. I know a man from Ireland. After about 6-8 weeks of correspondence and then some phone calls they met in Amsterdam. Four days later and $3000 lighter, he goes home, thinking of love, only to find she ripped him off. He never heard another word from her again.

[Kuna]

Kuna

Just be aware that there are pro-daters who DO want you to visit soon. And they are even more clever than the other scammers. And the sooner the better, to get into your wallet. I know a man from Ireland. After about 6-8 weeks of correspondence and then some phone calls they met in Amsterdam. Four days later and $3000 lighter, he goes home, thinking of love, only to find she ripped him off. He never heard another word from her again.

Viking,

VERY good point.  I see a pro-dater as being different from a scammer... and I also think it's hard to label a girl as a pro-dater because ultimately the man is in control of the $'s when they are together. 

I've read some stories of pro-daters where men complain because they've been scammed out of an "expensive dinner", then it comes out that the dinner actually costs less than a feed in a decent restaurant at home.  I think some guys think they've been flashing the money around, and expect girls to fall over themselves because of it.  In reality the guys are probably out of touch with reality and all tied up with the feeling that they might have finally turned into a stud.  I imagine that if you're not a stud at home, you WILL NOT be a stud in FSU.

As for your Irish friend... $3000 in 4 days?  What was he thinking?  I don't understand how anyone could be this foolish with money no matter how proficient the pro-dater was.  It sounds expensive but I suppose it's a lot cheaper than a divorce if he met someone who was truly greedy.

Still... it's a valid reminder for us newbies.  MONEY DOES NOT BUY LOVE!

Kuna

[Turboguy]

I don't think the man is always in control of the money.  I can think back to a number of instances such as the gal I dated in Moscow last January.

On our first date I thought the dinner was a bit expensive and was not too impressed when she asked why I wanted to order the new wine for $ 80.00 when I could have ordered the old wine for $ 400.00.   The bill came to $ 250.00 which was not cheap but it is Moscow. 

I had let her pick the restaurants because I don't know the Moscow restaurants.   The next night we go to a restaurant of her choosing.   I noticed the service was high classed.  Not only did they put the napkin on your lap but when I asked where the Men's room was they walked me to it.   I ordered a dinner that they recommended priced at about $ 40-50.00.   I could not even recognize what she was eating but it was in the lobster family.   The bill came.  It was $ 15,800 roubles.   Throwing in the tip that came out to oh, what about $ 625-650.00   She then asks if I want to go listen to some music.  Good request, right.  She says she knows a nice place with famous musicians.  I say fine, we take a taxi, walk in the door.  The sign there says, Admission $ 125.00 USD per person.  Fortunately one show started at 8 and one at 10 and it was 8:20.  I said the jet lag was bothering me and we called it a night.  I could have taken her out the next night but preferred to keep my wallet in my pocket and spend the evening watching BBC news.

Doing things like letting a serial dater pick the spots since you don't know your way around town can leave you open to some serious wallet dipping.

[Kuna]

I don't think the man is always in control of the money.  I can think back to a number of instances such as the gal I dated in Moscow last January.

On our first date I thought the dinner was a bit expensive and was not too impressed when she asked why I wanted to order the new wine for $ 80.00 when I could have ordered the old wine for $ 400.00.   The bill came to $ 250.00 which was not cheap but it is Moscow. 

Maybe I'm harsh but my response would be something like "Because that would be irresponsible and the type of girl I'm looking for wouldn't want me to be irresponsible.  Do you want your future husband to be irresponsible?"

Frankly,  I'd rather crash the date before ordering than try to maintain face. Maybe that's just me???

I had let her pick the restaurants because I don't know the Moscow restaurants.   The next night we go to a restaurant of her choosing.   I noticed the service was high classed.  Not only did they put the napkin on your lap but when I asked where the Men's room was they walked me to it.   I ordered a dinner that they recommended priced at about $ 40-50.00.   I could not even recognize what she was eating but it was in the lobster family.   The bill came.  It was $ 15,800 roubles.   Throwing in the tip that came out to oh, what about $ 625-650.00   She then asks if I want to go listen to some music.  Good request, right.  She says she knows a nice place with famous musicians.  I say fine, we take a taxi, walk in the door.  The sign there says, Admission $ 125.00 USD per person.  Fortunately one show started at 8 and one at 10 and it was 8:20.  I said the jet lag was bothering me and we called it a night.  I could have taken her out the next night but preferred to keep my wallet in my pocket and spend the evening watching BBC news.

This is an excellent example of why a "CityGuide" would be invaluable when anyone travels to a new city.  For my trip I've spend hour upon hour trying to find a selection of restaurants to go to and things to see.  When I'm in Ukraine I genuinely want to take control and initiate our activites where possible.

It's NOT easy to find information about restaurants... prices... quality of service...  cuisine served... etc.  When I come back I'm hoping to have a few restaurant reviews for places I go to so other newbies in the future can at least have a couple of "possible options" when he hits town with his girl for the first time.

Turbo...  I have a few questions (and I've been wondering about this because of my own choices I've made).

1. How old was she?

2. Did you write to her before arriving?

3. While writing before arriving, did she help make decisions that actually saved you money?

4. Did you buy her gloves to protect her hands while paying back that dinner by cleaning your apartment?   

[Turboguy]

I have trusted the judgement of women who lived in the city I was visiting a number of times without such expensive results.  Sometimes it is a good (maybe expensive) way to find out about the woman.

You mentioned crashing the date.  I had no idea the bill would be that high until they brought it.   I was working from an English menu and ordered fish that the waiter recommended (worst meal I ever ate in my life) for about $ 50.00.   She ordered in Russian.   I was expecting a bill in the same range as the night before.

On our taxi ride to dinner she asked if I had ever eaten in an Elki Pelki which was where my former fiancee and I ate a lot.  She then commented that she would never eat in such a place.   I always enjoyed it there.

Your questions.

1.  She was 31.

2.  We had written for a couple of months.  Sometimes she would write a couple of times a day.  There was a lot of cut and paste and short letters but the letters were frequent.  A lot of the cut and paste was romantic ramblings.  She did answer my questions.

3.  No, but it was Moscow so there was not a lot she could have done or that I needed her to do.  I stayed at the Cosmos on that trip.

4.  No, actually I was just as content to never see her again.  I had told her going in that I could see her for sure on the two days and that the third day was possible.  She was to call me to see if I was available.  The phone rang every 5 minutes all day and I just sat there and let it ring.  I felt I would rather spend the day alone than get ripped off again.  I was heading home the following day.

[SANDRO43]

,,but give me 8000 parts that have to go on a vehicle in 2 hours and I'm in my glory

Admirable quality, but that is not going to be terribly useful when courting an FSUW, unless you plan to present her with a custom-built car/truck .

[BillyB]

The phone rang every 5 minutes all day and I just sat there and let it ring. 

Your date was probably anxious to show you the finest restaurant in Moscow this time. Her philosophy is "The best way to a man's heart is through his stomach". She just needs to work on her delivery a little better.

For $650 a meal for two, the staff not only need to walk you to the men's room, they need to wipe your a@@ too.

[Rumpy]

Your date was probably anxious to show you the finest restaurant in Moscow this time. Her philosophy is "The best way to a man's heart is through his stomach". She just needs to work on her delivery a little better.

For $650 a meal for two, the staff not only needs to walk you to the men's room, they need to wipe your a@@ too.

I cant even immagine this ,I have never spent over 200$ for a meal in my life for 2 and thats always fillet and lobster tail,,,,I am far not cheap but I just think thats crazy money,,,I am thinking I want to stay out of Moscow

Is it easy to meet woman from rural areas,,,a little bit country a little bit rock and roll??

[groovlstk]

If a woman steers you to an expensive restaurant for a first date, Moscow or otherwise, it's a pretty good indication that she's (at best) high maintenance. I believe Turbo dated a Moscow girl who was like this, and funny enough she was one of my backups during the trip where I met my fiancee.

[Turboguy]

I have a feeling your wallet is lucky that you did not have to resort to your backups Groov.   The girl definitely liked everything first class.

A lot of gals are not that way even in Moscow but you do have more risk in Moscow or St Petersburg. 

It is not that hard to meet gals in the villages (villiages may have a population of 500,000 - 2,000,000)   Look Barnaul up on a map.  That is where I met my dream girl.  As a hint it is three time zones east of Moscow not too far from Mongolia.   Omsk is popular and a great spot as is Novosibirsk and other areas far from Moscow.  I think I remember I/O talking about Irkutsk which is further east than Barnaul and near one of the most beautiful lakes in the world.

[Son of Clyde]

I would advise you to have your intro letters translated and not make her have this done. It makes a very good first impression when she opens a letter to see it is already in her native language. My wife really appreciated this.

[David1963]

Rumpy


A couple things.  Like BillyB said, write correctly, take a writing class if you need to.

A form letter is fine for a first letter, maybe add a sentence or two different to each one that mentions something specific that she mentions in her profile, doesn't take long to do that.

If you don't have a trip planned soon, mention that, don't waste their time if your not serious yet.  At least give them the courtesy to know you intentions.