Lost in Translation - My Epiphany?

[Kuna]

In the new womens forum I used an on-line translation tool to translate the discussion between Jack and Kvinna and noticed some interesting things. I would be interested to hear comments by interested persons (especially our native Russian speakers).

1. Structure of translated sentences.
We all know that using a translation tool to translate the writings of a native Russian speaker results in some sentences being difficult to read because of the differing grammar rules.

I noticed Jacks translated sentences were easier to read... Maybe his grammar is not "perfect" in Russian but it got me thinking about the next point.

2. Is Kvinna aggressive or does she use words innocently that sound aggressive when translated?
Often when I read Kvinnas posts I sense a high degree of aggression.  To be honest I see it in Elen's posts often too.  An example from Kvinna's conversation with Jack is below:

Кстати заметила, что мужчины красавчики, как правило инфантильны и эгоистичны.

Translation using an online tool:

Has by the way noticed, that men красавчики, as a rule are infantile and эгоистичны.

Does she really mean to say "As a rule men are infantile" or is she trying to say something less aggressive?


The only reason why I ask these questions is to understand if I've been judging Kvinna harshly.  I've wondered if she was simply trying to be a productive part of our community and I (and others) have been misunderstanding her or whether she's actually TRYING to be aggressive and recalcitrant.

I notice other women in here don't use such aggressive language but maybe their English skills are more highly evolved than Kvinna and Elen's. I don't want to read some people's posts and disregard their opinions because of the aggressive tones if there's actually something worthwhile to think about.

Kuna

[Bruno]

Кстати заметила, что мужчины красавчики, как правило инфантильны и эгоистичны.

Translation using an online tool:

Has by the way noticed, that men красавчики, as a rule are infantile and эгоистичны.

Does she really mean to say "As a rule men are infantile" or is she trying to say something less aggressive?

My online translator give a other result :

I did not say that the physical attractiveness was not important.
It is important the first five minutes.
No one wants to associate with the crocodile and it will not be.
But physical attractiveness - this not all. Man can be dandy from face, in this case complete nonentity, and with the mass of other [nedostatokov]. Woman searches for in the man stability and protection.
It by the way noted that man the dandies, are as a rule infantile and selfish. But it to us is must?

Kuma, you have several online translator on the internet... but mainly, you have 3 engine... always try to use translator with other engine... only so, you can maybe find the real meaning...

In these case, i think that she mean "The playboy are as rule infantile and selfish"... by playboy, i mean the very beautiful guys... of course, i can be wrong too... 

[Kuna]

WOW!!!

Bruno,  this is SIGNIFICANTLY different.  May I ask which translation tool you use?

Kuna

[Ste]

WOW!!!

Bruno,  this is SIGNIFICANTLY different.  May I ask which translation tool you use?

Kuna

I generally use my beloved!

My take on this with my getting better Russian and a bit of help from multitran, the Russian word dictionary of choice is:

'I noticed by the way, that good-looking men, as a rule are infantile and egoistical'

I think красавчики is related to красавиця but I am always wrong.....

[Daveman]

Yes, Bruno's or STE's translations are more accurate as I see it.  There's really nothing aggressive there that I can see. 

"As a rule of thumb, the very handsome men are usually childish and selfish."  may be a way we would say it.  Also, direct translations are sometimes clumsy because a phrase comprised of a group of words may take on a different meaning than when each word is translated separately.

I read Elen's posts very carefully. She just might give me a clue as to how a Russian woman will approach a subject, thought associations, etc.  At first, I thought most of her posts were very aggressive.  Now, I think just the opposite.  Sometimes she can be flustered in her writing, but generally, she's not overly aggressive and has a really good sense of humor.  Not nearly as aggressive as when some of the guys talk to each other, or to her at times.  She deliberately pushes buttons sometimes, yep, no question about that - and guys fall for that trick again and again and again and again.  Of course, I don't overlook the possibility/probability that she's anti-American or anti-West... but it doesn't mean I can't learn much from her.

If we would go back and take a look at some of our own posts, from the point of view of a Russian woman (or someone from any other culture), I can easily see how anyone could think we are a bunch of whiny, easily offended, argumentative bunch of idiots who always have to be right, have to have the last word, can't let anything go.  If anyone doubts this, simply go back and read some of the older threads with an open mind as if you were encountering Western Creatures for the first time.  It's an eye-opener.

Dave

[Bruno]

WOW!!!

Bruno,  this is SIGNIFICANTLY different.  May I ask which translation tool you use?

Kuna

You may... http://www.worldlingo.com/en/products_services/worldlingo_translator.html

and for translate site ... http://www.worldlingo.com/en/websites/url_translator.html

Edit : but keep your actual translator... next time, it can be the mine who is wrong... on-line translator have problem with context... i have use a other one who was better but i have loose the URL... when a word was with more meaning, he was writen the different meaning between () ...

[Lily]

I would not recommend using any translation programs other than your own brains guys. The online translators mostly do a disservice. Better write in good English 

As for the aggression sensed by you in words, I could tell that in Russia people often exhibit various degrees of aggression in communication. Moreover, some are used to it, expect ot  and consider it normal    This is one of the worst things about Russia, IMO.

I don't mean the forum members, just share my personal observations living in the country.

[catzenmouse]

we are a bunch of whiny, easily offended, argumentative bunch of idiots who always have to be right, have to have the last word, can't let anything go.

<Jumping Up & Down Screaming>

We Are NOT! ARE NOT! You're just a big doofus! <Flopping On The Floor Kicking My Feet> It's a lie! A Big Fat Stupidhead LIE! We ARE NOT! Daaaaaaan! Lock this topic right now! Now I say! I don't want to hear any more from these big stupid heads!

<Holding My Breath Now Until I Get My Way>

Ken

[SANDRO43]

You're just a big doofus!

A what ??? ?

[catzenmouse]

Sandro,

 Just another one of those wonderful American Slang terms for a goofball, dork, freak, etc.

Now leave me alone so I can go back to holding my breath...

[Daveman]

<Jumping Up & Down Screaming>

We Are NOT! ARE NOT! You're just a big doofus! <Flopping On The Floor Kicking My Feet> It's a lie! A Big Fat Stupidhead LIE! We ARE NOT! Daaaaaaan! Lock this topic right now! Now I say! I don't want to hear any more from these big stupid heads!

<Holding My Breath Now Until I Get My Way>

Ken

<covering ears>

MYLAH MYLAH MYLAH I can't HEAR you.. MYLAH MYLAH MYLAH still can't hear you LALALALALALALALALALAL!!!    (would you believe, I actually did this to my Omsk gal one evening?  Oh man, I though she was going to kill me.. I'll tell the story in the trip report one of these days)

Ken, at the very least, according to Kvinna's own words, at least we now know who the two most handsome guys on the board are.. 

Sandro, I understand doofus just fine, but I'm still trying to find "boofhead" - such a cool word.. I've already adopted and used it several times here in my neck of the woods and have no idea what it really means... 

[Kuna]

Daveman...

Boofhead is pretty much on par with "Drongo".   

[Daveman]

Daveman...

Boofhead is pretty much on par with "Drongo".   

LoL! well hell, that explains THAT! 

Hmmm, better practice more combinations so I'll be ready next time..  one good utterance of "Drongofied boofheaded goofballesque dorkily freakish doofus" should at least get me removed from that silly Christmas card list... 

[DKMM]

I agree with Lily, using a translator often gets the meaning wrong.  This wasn't a tough one to translate by brain: 

Кстати заметила, что мужчины красавчики, как правило инфантильны и эгоистичны.

By the way, I noticed that good looking men, as a rule, are infantile and egotistical.


I don't see that being too aggressive, a lot of younger good looking guys say around college age can be both and worse.  But still, this sounds of a rambling of a scorned woman with perhaps some baggage from past shacking-ups.  My statement could translate rather agressively as well... 

[Kuna]

LoL! well hell, that explains THAT! 

Hmmm, better practice more combinations so I'll be ready next time..  one good utterance of "Drongofied boofheaded goofballesque dorkily freakish doofus" should at least get me removed from that silly Christmas card list... 

Dave,  chuck in a "bogan" and you'll really score some points!

[Gator]

If you use Microsoft Word, open "Translate" by pulling down "Tools" and then "Language".  And WorldLingo does the translation of your highlighted area.  I assume it is the same.  Works much quicker than opening another window.

[Lily]

I agree with Lily, using a translator often gets the meaning wrong.  This wasn't a tough one to translate by brain: 

Кстати заметила, что мужчины красавчики, как правило инфантильны и эгоистичны.

By the way, I noticed that good looking men, as a rule, are infantile and egotistical.


I don't see that being too aggressive, a lot of younger good looking guys say around college age can be both and worse.  But still, this sounds of a rambling of a scorned woman with perhaps some baggage from past shacking-ups.  My statement could translate rather agressively as well... 

Looking at this Russian sentence, I could say that the author uses a Russian diminutive affix '-чик' to the word 'красавец', a beautiful man.

This affix is generally diminutive but being applied to 'красавец' it sounds scorny, yes.
However, I'd not say the sentence is aggressive. It may be disapproving, though.

[DKMM]

Yeah thats what I figured but we don't use beautiful for men in English so I picked good looking.  And she said men, not man (I know you know that, but I wanted to make it clear anyway).