FirstDream and Khersongirls

[anono]

i met a girlfriend on one of his tours (firstdream in conjunction with khersongirls when we were in kherson) and had a seven month relationship with her, four months spent with her in ukraine.

i like the tours so much that i am going to tag along on the spring tour myself. i like the atmosphere, i have a friend who grew up two houses down the street going on his first trip.

i have met a lot of ukrainian ladies, many at the parties and others through agencies. whenever the topic of "socials" came up, many ladies said they did not like the socials but many will go the the parties. what's the difference? the ladies tell me that jack's parties are better organized, the men meet the ladies at tables, 4-6, maybe 8 women at the table, one man. socials seem to be mostly a lot of women on one side of hall where the music is too loud to talk with all the men huddled together on the other side staring at the women. the parties have games and other entertainment meant to break the ice and encourage interaction with the ladies.

i've become friends with jack over the years, i've been a good enough friend to challenge his ideas or have him explain his reasoning and i would not be typing this if i did not believe. if you want to go on a tour, go with jack bragg and firstdream. it'll be fun and you just might meet the right lady. it IS a numbers game if you're not one of the lucky few who met his lady right off. i forget how many men, including myself, filed k-1's after the trip...7 or 8?

i like jack’s tours because of the care, attention, flawless advice, time and help i received. the ladies at the parties, with few exceptions, were beautiful and sincere. as i said before and i will say again, no matter how many times cameragurl tries to get the thread shut down, in talking to many of these ladies myself, those who have attended the larger socials, without exception,Âsay they would never attend such a social again, they felt humiliated and as such would tell theirÂgirlfriends the same. the ladies say the firstdream parties are completely different, the ladies are treated with respect and dignity, they each have a place to sit and do not have to stand up against a wall watching for another lady to get up from her seat so she can take it. all the ladies get to meet all the men. the ladies have name tags,Ânot numbers like a cow. their are not 200-250 ladies per party for 20 men, but instead about 70-80 wonderful women, women that most of the 15 men attending invite.

Â

for the continuing flow of information, this is from kevin, owner of khersongirls:

Â

I went with 3 clients to the Yalta AFA tour last summer. The turn out wasn't that great, and a few of the guys left the group early. But I did see a few nice girls. I would say AFA was a little better then EC and Antasasha web tours. I have also been with Jack at his parties and there is a big difference between Jacks tours and AFA tours. Before I started my agency I spent a lot of time on tours and socials. I learned a lot and was scammed a lot. If I had know about Jack back then I would had taken his tour also.

The tours are a great way to get to know the culture and ladies. Plus you get to travel with other guys in the same situations. Use the tours as a means to get to know what to expect. Meet the ladies then take the time to return later and see the ladies on there own turf.

The only tour group that I recommend at this time Is Jack group. Because I have seen how all of the tours operated and his program is the most compatible with the way I do things.Â



i’ll continue....this spring i am going to attend some of firstdream functions in some of the citiesÂon the firstdream tour. i am not sure which cities i will go to at this time as i am still marketing myself but i am sure i will go to 3 or 4 out of the 10 cities that are includedÂthis spring. i think this is a wonderful opportunity for someone new to this to see st. petersburg (DO go to the hermitage and peterhof, i went on jack’s recommendation ad i am glad i did. 19 kilometers of art!) or moscow, kiev, odessa. the men you meet on jack's trips are guys you will make lifetime friends with.

Â

i am friends with mike t, leon, and a few other guys who call from time to time. men i met on Âthe spring ’04 trip. there is matt, the fed ex guy from memphis. Âhaven’t heard from him in awhile but a good guy. i’ll never forget that he had to wear the same clothes for a week until his lost luggage found him... speaking of which, the people who help jack did everything they could to get matt’s luggage to him.

[Jack]

Dan, I think you have read how a great many posters    of the RWD board feel about moderators.      RWD members do not want to be   , want to be able to freely speak   about any agency or individual without the fear of upsetting a moderator.

I think on some Russian discussion boards moderators feel they must post all the time,    as if it is their job. And god forbide you ever get a moderator crossed with you.     You can be libled and slander quite easily and often. As Leslie posted, moderators often create their own little innner circle    , you offend, upset one moderator,  you offend 20 moderators         

and become a target   for all of them. And so you will become         

 

 

[anono]

works for me...

[Bruce]

Dan, I think the post should stand.  It is a perfect example for guys joining and posting on this board why they should want to use your board as their primary board for posting information / seeking advice about the process of locating, immigration, culture etc. of marrying a girl from the FSU. 

Other boards are really shills for their biggest corporate advertiser(s).  People get banned from those boards for something that the corporate advertisers do not like.  Other boards have "moderators" to navigate around as well as fear of upsetting the corporate sponsors - a dual headed python. 

It is a loss for any board that loses members such as Anno who are experienced individuals that have so much to contribute and who take the time to write their own honest experiences on message boards to help the guys who come after them from falling in deep sand traps.  I too was banned from the same board Anno was precisely for telling my experiences honestly, without commercial interests in mind.  After I was banned I threw a few zingers into them just to play with them - which probably got their "moderators" madder at me - but I could see how posters get frustrated for trying to tell their truths and having it suppressed by a totalitarian board regime.

I also think it is a mistake to name call on message boards, though I know some individuals could get under others skin.  Boards are educational and guys are entitled to their own opinion.  I am sure all of us probably changed our opinion on at least one issue over the years. 

 

[Admin]

Dan, I think the post should stand. It is a perfect example for guys joining and posting on this board why they should want to use your board as their primary board for posting information / seeking advice about the process of locating, immigration, culture etc. of marrying a girl from the FSU.

Other boards are really shills for their biggest corporate advertiser(s). People get banned from those boards for something that the corporate advertisers do not like. Other boards have "moderators" to navigate around as well as fear of upsetting the corporate sponsors - a dual headed python.

It is a loss for any board that loses members such as Anno who are experienced individuals that have so much to contribute and who take the time to write their own honest experiences on message boards to help the guys who come after them from falling in deep sand traps. I too was banned from the same board Anno was precisely for telling my experiences honestly, without commercial interests in mind. After I was banned I through a few zingers into them just to play with them - which probably got their "moderators" madder at me - but I could see how posters get frustrated for trying to tell their truths and having it suppressed by a totalitarian board regime.

I also think it is a mistake to name call on message boards, though I know some individuals could get under others skin. Boards are educational and guys are entitled to their own opinion. I am sure all of us probably changed our opinion on at least one issue over the years.

Bruce, believe me - that LAST thing I want to do is aggressively police this board. I also don't want the RWD to become the board where people come to air their gripes about other boards. We can stand on our own merit - and already enjoy the reputation of being the BEST Russian internet discussion board. I want to keep it that way. The substance of the initiating post remains.

- Dan

[anono]

a little history..

i first started posting at that "other board" back in 2003, maybe end of 2002, i forget. anyway, i had another screename at the time.

it didn't take long to be banned and i went to a website where they have these "anonymizer" web browers that will hide your ISP. it's like a "cloaking device" for websurfing.

i used this browser to establish "anono" at the "other board" and eventually i was asked to return as a member. maybe my months of experience in ukraine had something to do with it.

so now i'm "anono" and banned again. i kinda like being banned. what was it mark twain (??) said? i wouldn't want to be a member of a club that would have me as a member? or was that groucho?

[Jack]

Dan, Bruce, Robert,
 
The last thing RWD wants to do is to begin deleting post's, what is posted. Of course their are extreme's that none of us want to see or tolerate and those cases are usually rare and delt with accordingly    .
 
One of the many things I like about the RWD is your not prohibited from discussing or mentioning other Russian discussion boards here. Anyone want to say something good (or bad, but don't know what anyone could say bad) about Planet Love, you can write it here. If someone wants to compliment something they saw on St. John's RWL, you can post it here.
 
Do you know their are Russian discussion boards who will not allow it's members to say or write anything about the Russian Women Discussion board (RWD)   ! And if they do, the post will be deleted.  And why is this? [/url]   [/font]Because they want to keep the RWD existence away from it's members.     If anyone were to post the RWD link on some of these website's they would have many of it's members signing up on the RWD as well. And if any of these particular discussion boards is heavy on , or heavy on banning people, or heavy on moderators, or heavy with big agency advertising, then the boards owners know they stand a good chance to lose members.
 
It's cool that RWD is confident enough about it's board it will let it's members discuss other discussion boards, it will allow it's members to exchange their e-mails in their profiles, it will allow it's members to openly discuss their experiences with all agencies and not a selected few.  
 
 
 

[BC]

It's cool that RWD is confident enough about it's board it will let it's members discuss other discussion boards..

IMHO discussing agencies is no problem because experiences with one agency or the other is informative to members here when selecting services they need for their trips.

Discussing how other boards are managed/run though does not seem to provide any real benefit here. I think in the long run members will do best by setting an example here in refraining from 'board bashing' posts even in 'other board' context. If we see something nice about another board, mentioning should be ok. Suggestions for improvement are helpful and show we are open to good ideas from any source.

Why are we really here?..  I like to think we're doing this for the newbie and to support those that have hit troubled times in their quest.  Doing as others do likely gives the impression we are in the same pot as the 'others'.

We are unique and the best way for all of us to show that is by thinking a bit before hitting the send button.  Sure we all will slip from time to time but an on board 'slap on the wrist'  is probably sufficient and will show subsequent visitors by example how we moderate ourselves.

[Jack]

You are right BC.

 

[Dave_home]

We can stand on our own merit - and already enjoy the reputation of being the BEST Russian internet discussion board. I want to keep it that way.

- Dan

 Dan,

  It may be a little pre-mature to make that claim right now since this board is so new, but certainly I like it, and when you announced this on St. Johns Malestrom RWL  shortly after I joined here and looked at your member list and you have many members of that RWL who flocked to join here too.  I don't know why but many of them are not posting,  most of the ones that are listed with  0 posts  are very active on RWL..... I know I saw a couple "key" people on ST. Johns RWL  make very favorable comments about this new list... that is probably why I joined.  Good things were also said about you too Dan.  I agree with them.   best wishes Dave

 

[Dave_home]

Dave

[Admin]

[user=101]Dave_home[/user] wrote:
It may be a little pre-mature to make that claim right now since this board is so new, but certainly I like it, and when you announced this on St. Johns Malestrom RWL shortly after I joined here and looked at your member list and you have many members of that RWL who flocked to join here too. I don't know why but many of them are not posting, most of the ones that are listed with 0 posts are very active on RWL..... I know I saw a couple "key" people on ST. Johns RWL make very favorable comments about this new list... that is probably why I joined. Good things were also said about you too Dan. I agree with them. best wishes Dave[/quote]

Hi Dave,

Actually, this board has been active for approximately a year now - just with a different format. We are not quite as 'new' as some would sugguest - but that is really of little consequence anyway - just glad you are enjoying it.

They said "good things" about me over at RWL?!? Wow! They just don't know me - otherwise . . . .:cool:

Take care,

- Dan

[Son of Clyde]

Very strange, I was banned from another board. It was my being naive and saying stupid things and not reading threads just skimming through and offering unsolicited advice. I was not rude, just dumb. So now 4 trips later I know a lot more about the process and I only give advice if I think I know something about the subject matter.

Maybe I deserved to be banned at the time but I thought it was very extreme.

Some characters over there put their feet in their mouth all the time and are still on the board. If people see humor in a situation they are not likely to complain so much so the guy who posts about "Penetration" of the ladies is still a member in good standing. And the guy who says AW are evil, feminists is still around but he is not posting as often these days.

Maybe the boards should be like high school. If someone is out of line "suspend them" for a few days.

People who are disruptive should be reprimanded in some way.

[Bruce]

Clyde - I'd wear the ban from that board as a badge of honor.   You know the motto on that weanie board:  He who speaks the truth gets banned (big three agencies / corporate sponsors need not be exposed).

[jb]

Clyde, you are not banned from the RWG are you?

[Jack]

Bruce, not sure what discussion board you are referring to as the weenie board but I think once most discussion boards becomes commercialized, once you have companies who are paying advertisers on a discussion board, I think some boards could then become more of a business and not a free flowing discussion board which could mean some freedom of speech could not be good for said busine$$.
 
 
When you look at all the discussion boards out there very few have a problem with banning a lot of it's members. I would think if you had one board who has banned a lot of members one  would have to wonder what the real problem is. Was it all those bad banned members, or was it the board? Makes one wonder. I look at the make-up of this board and see a lot of pretty good guys and ladies, certainly don't see a lot of trouble makers. Ahhhh, but that's what moderators are good for, right? Keep flaming to a minimum, no name calling, keep people on their toes, like here on the RWD....ooopppps, just realized, we don't have moderators! We also don't have that many flame wars. Geeezz, I wonder why some boards have so many moderators? Oh well, at least the moderators keep topics moving, always adding new things to discuss and say, like the RWD board....oooppps, forgot again. Hummm, come to think about it, just exactly why is it some boards have so many moderators? I wonder if boards with moderators would have more, or fewer, banned members than discussion boards with no moderators? And if so I wonder why that would be.

[Son of Clyde]

Jb, I was banned which is why I had changed my original username to Clyde.

It was easy to rejoin after one of my trips because my IP address changed.

There are some nice people still on the board and I have been behaving myself.

[jb]

Clyde,

What you mean is: Barney17 got banned.

Actually, considering the RWG business model, you would seem to fit the profile of the perfect member.  You are middle aged, single, have a steady income, and are the type who actually makes a trip.  All of the sponsors of the RWG are looking for exactly this kind of customer.

RWG probably loves you.

[ConnerVT]

Actually, considering the RWG business model, you would seem to fit the profile of the perfect member. You are middle aged, single, have a steady income, and are the type who actually makes a trip. All of the sponsors of the RWG are looking for exactly this kind of customer.

Gee, jb, that describes me also... :?

[jb]

You don't count, Fred, you're too big and ugly.

[ConnerVT]

Tall and good looking enough to marry a 6' tall BRW!  :dude:

[gwdunbar]

That was Tom Sawyer (written by Mark Twain) talking about going to heaven. 

[Kevin]

For agency owners there are many restrictions place on us when posting on many boards. On Rwguide I am asked not to post about my competitors. On russian-women-list I am not allows to post about other agencies and my post are normally deleted when I do post.

The same goes for most list. The only ones I can post to without getting moderated is rw-x2 and Russianbrideslist (sometimes).

I understand the business aspect of some sites, if you attack there advertisors they are going to leave the site. This is why I like RWD and why I created the site http://www.honestmarriageagencies.com because there are no advertisments.

For those who have sites. Please put a link to RWD site so we can get more people involved.

 

Kevin

[Bruno]

I have make it long time ago... RWD is the forum link of my site...

[Jack]

Kevin, not all Russian discussion boards are created equal.

Some Russian discussion boards (and anti-scam sites) are really just a business and do not allow for the true free flow of discussions, especially if any post's are about any of the paying advertisor's or negative things said about advertisors that have banner ads that link to their site and pay commissions on the number of hit's coming from that discussion board (or anti-scam site).

Agency owners, in my opinion, have probably some of the best knowledge about what is going on and if an agency owner knew one agency was scamming and you were prohibited from exposing such scam agency because you were yourself an agency owner does not make a lot of sense to me. But if the agency that was scamming was a paying advertisor of a discussion board, well, now it would make sense to me as to why an agency could not expose said scam agency. It is called potential loss of income.