Ukraine, kids and dead-beat dads....

[Ste]

Quick answer required for a friend!

What do you need to allow a child to leave the Ukraine? They have the fathers permission but I seem to remember that's not enough isn't it? Don't u need a court ruling?

[William3rd]

depends on the rules of visa issuance on the receiving country

[Ste]

depends on the rules of visa issuance on the receiving country

Ta!

It's UK and we only need a note from the dad and cup of tea and some biscuits.

I did think it was a Ukr Law to have this court thingie.

[Gator]

Leaving the FSU is not the problem if the kid has a passport or is in mama's passport.  Kids leave all the time with single moms for holiday trips to Turkey.

As our illustrious attorney informed you, the destination country is the obstacle.

America recognizes the rights of fathers.  In our case, the father had disappeared so permission was impossible (and there are rules about the form of permission, certification, etc.).  Mama had to file in Russian courts for sole custody.  Not being able to locate the father (long story), the process took over a year and $500 in legal fees.  Now that she has received sole custody, the government pays her a monthly stipend of about $5 per child (what a country).    

[timothe]

Leaving the FSU is not the problem if the kid has a passport or is in mama's passport.  Kids leave all the time with single moms for holiday trips to Turkey.

As our illustrious attorney informed you, the destination country is the obstacle.

America recognizes the rights of fathers.  In our case, the father had disappeared so permission was impossible (and there are rules about the form of permission, certification, etc.).  Mama had to file in Russian courts for sole custody.  Not being able to locate the father (long story), the process took over a year and $500 in legal fees.  Now that she has received sole custody, the government pays her a monthly stipend of about $5 per child (what a country).    

That's good to know, Gator.  We're having some problems with the dad. (again)  Last time, he gave the child permission to leave after some massaging by Olga's uncles.  This time, we might not have that luxury.   

[acrzybear]

That's good to know, Gator.  We're having some problems with the dad. (again)  Last time, he gave the child permission to leave after some massaging by Olga's uncles.  This time, we might not have that luxury.   

Then have the uncles "massage" a bit harder   (just kidding-not advocating useless violence)

[Sort]

Then have the uncles "massage" a bit harder   (just kidding-not advocating useless violence)

There are some very nice "bats" or why hit him????
you can brake a arm instead........

No im only joking.
Hope it will work out fine for ya.

[wxman]

That's good to know, Gator.  We're having some problems with the dad. (again)  Last time, he gave the child permission to leave after some massaging by Olga's uncles.  This time, we might not have that luxury.   

Is the father paying child support regularly? We are dealing with the same problem. If he does pay child support regularly, then she will have to go to court in Ukraine to get full custody. As we were told, that would be virtually impossible because he does pay child support, even though he has not seen his daughter in years. Now if he doesn't pay child support, she can file for custody. He must appear at the hearing, and when he does, he will get arrested for not paying child support. Kind of a trap, so he might not appear, which will get her custody. Of course with Ukrainian courts anything could happen, literally anything.

[timothe]

Is the father paying child support regularly? We are dealing with the same problem. If he does pay child support regularly, then she will have to go to court in Ukraine to get full custody. As we were told, that would be virtually impossible because he does pay child support, even though he has not seen his daughter in years. Now if he doesn't pay child support, she can file for custody. He must appear at the hearing, and when he does, he will get arrested for not paying child support. Kind of a trap, so he might not appear, which will get her custody. Of course with Ukrainian courts anything could happen, literally anything.

No...he's not paying child support and hasn't for years. (although he did pay for a short time)   We're probably going to wait until the New Year before we take additional action, if necessary. 

[I/O]

Ste: I think the UK laws are similar to here, in which case the embassy requires a translated and notarised letter of permission from the natural father for the child to leave the country permanently. I'd be surprised if exact info is not available on the GB embassy website.

I/O

[timothe]

We're still having problems getting the ex-husband to sign off on documents necessary for Olga's daughter to get a passport.  Gator and Groov, you guys were saying that the next step was to go to court?  Do you have any links where I can more information about what exactly we need to do?

The problem we have is that the ex-husband is in the militia.  He's on leave right now, but he will be going back to Chechnya at some point.  Somehow, we have to either get him to sign the papers now or we have to start the court proceedings.  (the daughter will be 14 shortly and still needs her father's permission, it is my understanding)

Any ideas?

[groovlstk]

Gator and Groov, you guys were saying that the next step was to go to court?  Do you have any links where I can more information about what exactly we need to do?

I think you have me mixed up w/another poster, I have no experience w/bringing a child to the US.

That said, long ago I was hooked on a Ukrainian woman who was having an affair w/her sister's husband. She wanted a child and he agreed, although she must've known he'd never leave his wife and daughter for her but at the same time he'd never allow her to leave Ukraine. After the baby was born, she secretly did backflips to have the real father's name expunged from the birth certificate, all in anticipation of snagging some foolish Westerner for a major change in scenery. 

[Gator]

Timothe,

Remind me please in a week and your fiancee can call my fiancee directly and take us out of the loop.  Our case was different (Dad missing), but perhaps the procedures are the same.

I say one week because she just landed in Moscow one hour ago after spending two weeks in the Dominican Rep.  She is exhausted and needs to do some things such as getting two kids caught up with school.  Upon landing in Moscow, getting into the car and driving to home, her 10-yo daughter cried, "Momma, turn this car around.  Let us take the next plane back."

[catzenmouse]

Is the father paying child support? If so, the courts will very likely not grant the woman's petition. We went through this and the court would not take the father's rights away even though his child support payment was some ungodly stupid amount like 20R a month.

Ended up working out for us as he did a flip and signed his rights away. The whole court thing was just so that he could be a prick one last time to her and the son that he didn't even know.

Perhaps do a search here as I seem to remember some posts about a woman lawyer in Moscow awhile back who you could also contact.

Ken

[timothe]

He hasn't paid child support in like 10 years.  The guy has to be a first class jerk if he's going to hold out signing the documents necessary for the daughter's passport.  Besides the fact that their daughter will have more choices and a better life, the mother has a chronic disease and needs more medical attention than she can get right now. 

I'm hoping he's just holding out to put on some facade that he has control over her and that he will eventually sign the documents.  The whole situation is very frustrating because I can't really do anything about it.

We'll see what happens.   :seething:

[BillyB]

Then have the uncles "massage" a bit harder   (just kidding-not advocating useless violence)

How about advocating "effective" violence? How persuasive is police brutality Bear? 

timothe, I feel for you. But I also understand it's not easy for even a RM who doesn't pay child support to see his child leave... possibly forever. Somebody is going to have to give up the child either way you look at it.

Has your fiancee contacted an attorney yet? It seems she's going to have to do most of the legwork on this issue in order to get things done.

It's UK and we only need a note from the dad and cup of tea and some biscuits.

I did think it was a Ukr Law to have this court thingie.

ste, if nobody comes forth with they went though to get permission for their fiancee's child to leave the country from the Ukrainian government, you might have your friend's fiancee contact an Ukrainian attorney to be sure about Ukraine law.

[acrzybear]

How about advocating "effective" violence? How persuasive is police brutality Bear? 

Billy

I would never advocate useless violence, however usefull violence IS a different story.

  Police brutality? or resisting arrest?  It all depends on how good the officer is writing his (or her) report    Or how good the Sergeant is  

an indicment is NOT a conviction!!

 

[timothe]

We're going to give him a small window where he can decide to sign the documents while he is in town.  If that doesn't work, then Olga is going to get her uncles involved.  If that doesn't work, then I guess we'll need to start the court proceedings.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this guy will just sign the documents.   

[catzenmouse]

Good Luck Timothe!

I was very, very close to finding an Igor and Yakov who I could pay some cash to that would have had a "talk" with the dad before he flipped his position and signed the papers.