communication problems; help requested

[elliott]

I've traded a couple emails with a woman that I met on elenasmodels.com who said that her English was good.  Well, both emails have been difficult to follow primarily due to her sentence structure.  It's completely wrong.  Also, her grammar, word usage, and punctuation can use much improvement.  Surprisingly, all of the words are spelled correctly.  So, I am assuming that, in reality, her English is fair at best, and she is using some kind of translation program, service, or device to translate her letters into English.  Am I correct in assuming that when Russian is translated into English in a literal context, many words will carry an alternative meaning to what they mean in Russian?  Also, when a sentence is translated literally, will the words likely be placed in an incorrect order when written in English?  For instance, she has said "I had no before attitudes strong."  Several times she has used the word "attitudes."  I assume she means she hasn't felt deeply about someone as it pertains to an intimate relationship, and I assume "attitudes" is the literal English translation of a Russian word for "feelings" as in how someone feels about another person.  Another reason I think her English is not too good is because in my response to her first email, I asked her several questions and then told her that I would like her thoughts/comments on some of the things that I wrote.  Well, her reply thanked me for my letter but didn't have a single answer or reference to what I had written.  Rather, she described herself and then asked me send a letter about myself, although she should have picked up a lot about me from the previous letter.  I'm thinking that she didn't understand what I wrote.  Anyone in agreement?

Also, she is from Belarus.  Am I correct to assume that her native language is Russian??  Wikipedia says the national language for Belarus is Belarusian, but I get the feeling that Russian is commonly spoken among Belarusians.

Another reason I think she speaks Russian is because she sent me a picture with this phrase at the bottom:  "черные бусы"   I translated this on a free Russian to English online translation service and got back "black beads".  But then I separated each word; "бусы" came back a "bead, chaplet, or crown" and once I even got "goose", and "черные" came back with a note saying it has no translation!  Can someone please help me understand these words?  Thankyou.

[daveyj]

Yes, I think she is probably using an online tranlator.

One's understanding of language usually differs substantially between aural comprehension, spoken, written and read.  So she might just not be accustomed to reading/writing.

Personally I use http://babelfish.yahoo.com/ and I know that if I write clear simple sentance structure it will do a good job, but if I start adding in complex sentances & vernacular it becomes pretty confusing.

I don't know about the differences between Russian and BelaRussian.

[pitbull]

Hi Elliott,

This woman's English is clearly very bad, everyone in Belarus definitely speaks Russian,  and "?????? ????" translates as "black necklace"


Hope this helps  

[SANDRO43]

For instance, she has said "I had no before attitudes strong." Several times she has used the word "attitudes."  I assume she means she hasn't felt deeply about someone as it pertains to an intimate relationship, and I assume "attitudes" is the literal English translation of a Russian word for "feelings" as in how someone feels about another person.

For this and other 'strange' words, have a look at the Russglish Glossary (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/mwiki/index.php?title=Russglish_Glossary) in our RWDpedia .

[Mark Davis]

Elliott:

I had to use a translator to communicate with my wife the first 2 1/2 months of our dating relationship.  Even then, we had some communication issues. 

My first and most basic thought is that you need to get someone who speaks Russian to write you emails to her Russian.  Let her respond to you in Russian and have your Russian-speaking friend translate the emails for you. 

I tried using the online translators a few time out of desperation, but it was always like caveman talk - just like you described.

Mark

[Ade]

Another reason I think her English is not too good is because in my response to her first email, I asked her several questions and then told her that I would like her thoughts/comments on some of the things that I wrote.  Well, her reply thanked me for my letter but didn't have a single answer or reference to what I had written.  Rather, she described herself and then asked me send a letter about myself, although she should have picked up a lot about me from the previous letter.  I'm thinking that she didn't understand what I wrote.  Anyone in agreement?

Or she didn't bother reading it. Possible scammer.
This alone would have me moving on.

[GoodOlBoy]

Definite RED FLAG. She is probably sending you a standard "form" e-mail that she is using with several other men. I have had this same thing happen to me. Several times the women forgot to change the other men's names and put my name in the heading!! So I would get Dear Bob, George, Harry, etc. Or even somewhere buried in the e-mail I would find some other guy's first name. Beware.

[Mark Davis]

I know this is probably taboo to say, but I am not a big fan of letter writing - at all.  I think the only value is to get to know more about other cultures, learn what you are really looking for in a woman, and maybe have a date lined up when you go on a tour.

You have so many risks in writing - and very little return.  After you've met several ladies you want to continue to talk with then letters have value and you've been able to look in her eyes.  Ultimately, this is all about having one in your arms, yes?  So you have to meet them in person at some point.  Why not just make the trip first and save the letter writing for your return.

Just my two cents.
Mark

[docetae]

I agree with Mark.. I have met my wife after a one week correspondence ... (and wedding was after one year). Nothing replace face to face interaction.

My suggestion will be to change your strategy and forget this woman (red flags above...):

 When you will know that you can travel within 6 weeks:

- subscribe to 2 or 3 sites (luckylovers, bride.ru, elenamodels) (cost around 200$)
- Select between 1 or 3 cities where you want to travel and where you can hire a guide/translator
- Search for women meeting your criterias in these cities
- Prepare an introduction letter in russian with the help of a translator (cost max = 15$) where you give your travel date (but not your destination)
- Send this letter to at least 20 women in each city (total 60)
- Select your destination based on answers

I know some people will not like this comparison, but this first phase is like going trough CV for choosing a candidate to fulfill a position. You can not meet all candidates for an interview so you must establish yourself your own selection criteria. Good luck !

[elliott]

Thanks everybody!  I'm right in line with you, too, Mark.  I usually like to meet a girl, hang out with her a few times, then trade emails and phone calls if it seems like we're hitting it off.  Not the other way around!  But, I'm going to write a letter in Russian and see if it helps any.  I hate to red flag this girl, but from what I've seen on just this one agency's website, there are plenty more girls to meet.

However, I completely agree with daveyj.  For instance, I can understand some Spanish when it is spoken to me, but I can't speak it too well.  I can read it okay, but I absolutely cannot write it.  It may be the same problem for this woman, but with English.

Thanks for all the input.  It is very helpful.

[kryten41]

I wouldn't give up on her yet either, a form letter or two at the beginning isn't so unusual.  Get her phone number and call her as soon as possible, this will tell you if her spoken English is at a level that will allow meaningful communication or not.  My girl's spoken English is quite good, but she still writes her emails in Russian and has someone translate them before she sends them.  Now would also be a good time for you to start learning some Russian.

[Shadow]

From what I read she is using a online translator. If you can not translate this in to proper Engish yourself, move on.
If you are going to write a letter in Russian do not use similar translators as they will only cause confusion.
However chances are that questions are going to be ignored again or you will not get any reply.

[Vaughn]

......who said that her English was good. 

  And it obviously is not. I'd move on. Unless you can manage Russian, or she
can manage English, you both depend on others just to communicate...  and
why settle for that? The electronic translators are incapable of performing at
the level you want.

  Letters -  We wrote them, sometimes even postal, but that
was just us. In short order, phonecalls dominated.

Well, her reply thanked me for my letter but didn't have a single answer or reference to what I had written.

  Strike Two. Others' mileage may vary.

  Find a lady who intrigues you. The ones who can befuddle us are plentiful.

   

[jj]

elliott   - sometimes on those websites where it lists english proficiency should be taken with a grain of salt.   Sometimes where it says english: poor, it may actually be better now because the posting is old and they have learned more english.  Other the other hand, in your case, it says "good" when actually it is not and she may be early in the learning phase.  I would not give up, but as mentioned earlier, get a good russian-english translator if doing letters or if can hook up by a phone call.  If you still don't get any meaningful answers from her with that, then keep looking.  There are alot of serious ladies out there, but also some just playing games.   You have to talk with them, have face to face, and travel, but you will know when a FSU woman is into you or not.  good luck.-jj

[Ulysses]

Hey Elliott,
     I'm in a similar situation....picked up a Lonely Planet book....small one....about Ukranian-English language and had my eyes opened concerning grammar, etc.....much for me to learn and be aware of in my next steps.  Of course, I'm flying off to Kiev next week and will have a second series of meetings with E.   I'm struggling to not let the language barrier become large.....so I'm looking forward to that face-to-face time.  I feel good about the coming time and have very positive memories about our first...rather short meetings....but I have noticed that tendency of E to skip an answer or two....or three+......well, I've chalked it up to her language insecurity for now.  Ask me the same question in 2 weeks.   Seriously Jaded has some important points.....but I think so many women have had such negative treatment from a few men, and that impression is tough to break through.
     Just my humble opinion....Ulysses

[elliott]

jj, I hear ya'.  On elenasmodels, the women are allowed to rate themselves in their English proficiency.  So, a humble person might list her English skills as fair when, in reality, they're pretty good.  In contrast, another person might think her English is good because she knows a handful of words, which might be a handful more than any of her friends know, so she thinks that she's doing pretty good.
I have a German friend who has an excellent vocal understanding of English, but cannot write or read English too well.  The other day we were playing Cranium, and she was reading the card and pronounced the word "plutocracy" as "pluto-crazy."  Needless to say, nobody had a clue what she was talking about.

I keep reading about visits over to the FSU.  Many members of this forum have been over there one or more times to meet their girl/other women.  I guess I should be scolded for not doing my homework beforehand, but I didn't realize that a woman expects a visit within a short amount of time after meeting online or after a tour, nor did I realize that I have to be the one who does all of the traveling.  I never intended to visit another country ever in my life.  But if it's necessary for a budding relationship with someone (of course it's necessary), then at best I'm about eight months away from being able to free up enough cash and time to take a trip to another country.  So, does absence make the heart grow fonder?  Or does it make the heart of a Russian woman move onto someone else??

[Kuna]

I keep reading about visits over to the FSU.  Many members of this forum have been over there one or more times to meet their girl/other women.  I guess I should be scolded for not doing my homework beforehand, but I didn't realize that a woman expects a visit within a short amount of time after meeting online or after a tour, nor did I realize that I have to be the one who does all of the traveling.  I never intended to visit another country ever in my life.  But if it's necessary for a budding relationship with someone (of course it's necessary), then at best I'm about eight months away from being able to free up enough cash and time to take a trip to another country.  So, does absence make the heart grow fonder?  Or does it make the heart of a Russian woman move onto someone else??

I'm sorry...  but are you pulling our legs?

Your profile info says you've been searching for a FSUW for > 5 years and:

1. You've NEVER visited?
2. Never considered visiting?

I guess I should break some news to you.  This is expensive - difficult - it'll consume more time and money than you can imagine - and the road ahead is full of traps.

If you are successful you can also expect to be traveling back to FSU for family visits regularly, or at the VERY least funding your family trips back.

It's good you're reading trip reports here as you'll learn a lot.  Keep in mind this journey is not for everyone and you're best to work that out sooner rather than later.

Oh,  absence DOES make the heart grow fonder - but most FSUW won't wait if she doesn't think her man is serious!

Getting on the plane and spening time shows her you are serious!

[AnastassiaAsh]

I guess I should be scolded for not doing my homework beforehand, but I didn't realize that a woman expects a visit within a short amount of time after meeting online or after a tour, nor did I realize that I have to be the one who does all of the traveling.  I never intended to visit another country ever in my life.  But if it's necessary for a budding relationship with someone (of course it's necessary), then at best I'm about eight months away from being able to free up enough cash and time to take a trip to another country.  So, does absence make the heart grow fonder?  Or does it make the heart of a Russian woman move onto someone else??

  It's never too late to start doing your homework.  The main reason to go there and meet your lady is for the possible K1 visa in the future that requires you to visit at least once. Without this you can't even start bringing her over here. Any lady in my opinion would expect to maybe correspond for 2-3 months and then would want you to come and visit within 4-5 months overall. You are a little further from that point, but you are at the very beginning of your search too as I understand. So, yes, take your time for now and push on saving some money. 

[Shadow]

Mrs Shadow has a good understanding of English, however she still has trouble understanding the American spoken language, where the European accent does not pose a problem. By watching movies this has improved from the beginning though.

As for trips, yes you need to travel. No ifs and buts, unless you manage to find one of the RW who came to the US and found their husband not to be what they hoped for.

What you need to do is to think not only about the 8 months to the first trip, but also of what happens after. Can you spend enough funds and time on pursuing the international relationship ?

[elliott]

Your profile info says you've been searching for a FSUW for > 5 years and:

1. You've NEVER visited?
2. Never considered visiting?

I didn't realize my "looking >5 years" status meant looking for a FSUW.  I thought it meant how long I've been looking for a woman, in general.     I've been single for many years.  I'll change my status, though, so there is no more confusion.

And, no, I've never considered leaving the US for any reason.  Us country boys 'aint big on travelin' to foreign lands.  Them foreigners talk funny.  <--How's that for redneck grammar?   ;D    Heck, I never even left my hometown until I was twenty.  Now I live on a ranch in the mountains of Colorado, and we're thirty miles from town.  If I don't even like making the thirty mile trip to town, you can imagine my reluctance to make a trip halfway around the world!

Seriously, though, if the girl of my dreams is in the FSU or anywhere else in this world, then there is no obstacle big enough to keep me from her.  Money barriers, language barriers, Russian Mafia barriers...they won't stop me.       (Disclaimer:  I know nothing about the Russian Mafia except what I see in the movies or on television.  I don't even know if it's real.  But, the idea of a large crime family is fun to use as a base for jokes.)

Thanks for all the replies!