Be honest: Why are you looking for a woman in Russia and other countries of FSU

[roykirk]

I've repeated my sentiments several times in other threads, but for those I haven't met yet, I'll share again and also a recent epiphany of sorts.

I found myself pushing 40 and divorced after 10 years of marriage.  No kids.  My preference was to have my own family, but I wouldn't have necessarily been closed off to adopting a woman's child if we hit it off.  I knew I wasn't going to find very many AW pushing 40 that either didn't have kids or would still want to try to have them.  Thus I knew I had to look for younger women.  At the same time, I didn't know too many younger American women in the age range I was looking for (25-30) who would date a man my age.  Most wouldn't step outside a 3-5 year age gap.  The last AW I dated before meeting my Russian girlfriend was just 8 years younger and she considered it a HUGE gap.  I also knew from browsing some of the Russian dating sites that many RW were open to dating men older than them.  There was also the fact that I had been to Russia before and had traveled the world.  I was in love with foreign cultures of all types, and was a Russian history buff since I was a teenager.  All this added up to my wanting to meet and date Russian women.

The recent epiphany that I spoke of was realizing that most AW were awfully boring in my estimation.  Many were career oriented to a fault and didn't have the "life by the seat of your pants" outlook that I did.  The AW who was 8 years younger than me was a classic example.  Gorgeous and fun to go to the pub with but wouldn't allow me to call her during the week because she was too busy with work.  Our official date night was Saturday and a phone call on Sunday afternoon, and that was it.  She didn't want to travel, and she had no plans of ever moving because couldn't handle living too far away from mom and dad.   

[Jumper]

I believe that the married guys should chime in.  They got the T shirt and all.

For what it's worth, even though we have the *red* hammer and sickle  T shirts
most of us may have come by them in a multitude of ways, and have quite individual reasons why.

Mine is perhaps the worst reason ever.seriously.
A haphazard  approach to relationships,because it had always *just worked* for me.
add in  a silly "heck, why not " attitude.Plus working and living off and on  in Europe, made visiting easy, and RW certainly wernt the only women i was interested in.. i've never held a woman's age , or nationality,  against her
but a general lack of knowledge of the subject at hand,(RW)  and since i did not know, a cats curiousity to find out.



To answer Olga's question

From the actually married men i know,
The vast majority are quite successful,and good at what they do
most are fairly charismatic and outgoing  (so hardly social misfits) 
Most had active social lives, and while maybe did not have a harem, did not lack for quality female companionship.

I can't aspeak for the "WHys" they woul dentertain marrying a foriegner, or how they came to be in such a place.

but at least within the group i know ,none really qualify in the MOB stereotype (which is what the question seems to really ask)

 

To give Misha credit where it's due, I think a large percentage of guys "looking" do fall into that stereotype.

and thier reasons for looking general do tend to fall into those reasons he stated.



perhaps the real question then is:

Of the "lookers"  how many ever follow thru,
and the one sthat follow thru,, are successful in marriage.

and *if* the process itself and its inherent difficulties
(that become more obvious as one travels that path..)
simply often weeds out the "stereotyped" MOB "looker" 
(or the RW since she ultimately says I do , or I dont )

[Frenchdude]

Olga, do you really want to hear the truth?
Why would a man from the US in his right mind go to such a length as to meet a RW 6000 miles from home with all the RISKS and EXPENSES involved?
Because of her mysterious slavic charm? or her "je ne sais quoi" that western women do not have?
Bull shit.
The truth of the matter is, unless you are very wealthy, very good-looking and young or a combination thereof, it is virtually impossible to marry a very attractive woman in the US. Trust me, I have been there and done that.
80% of US women are utterly unattractive, of whom probably more than 50% are quite simply totally "undoable", mainly because they are grossly overweight and have ridiculous expectations for a mate with regard to their own physical appearance.
Because of this reality, the relatively few American women who are even remotely attractive can afford to be overly selective and get away with it. It is just good old supply-and-demand. If you don't understand my point, refer to economics 101.
So if you are the kind of guy who places a premium on physical appearance, one of the solutions offered to you is to swap the country.
This does not necessarily make you a broke, moronic Shrek look-alike. It simply means that you want something that just cannot be had in the US no matter how much effort you are going to put into it because of your particular standing in society.
Having said that, there is always the just-divorced occasional business traveler bumping into a gorgeous RW while trying to catch his flight at Sheremetievo airport. Everybody's got the right to dream sometimes.

[OlgaH]

Olga, do you really want to hear the truth?
Why would a man from the US in his right mind go to such a length as to meet a RW 6000 miles from home with all the RISKS and EXPENSES involved?
Because of her mysterious slavic charm? or her "je ne sais quoi" that western women do not have?

Here I agree with you   

If you don't know what you are looking for, you will never find it. If you know nothing and even haven't got the slightest right idea about her "mysterious Slavic charm" and her Slavic "je ne sais quoi" you will never meet her  ... but if you are "the kind of guy who places a premium on physical appearance",  it does not matter at all  if she has "mysterious Slavic charm" or not and there is no need to be puzzled about "je ne sais quoi" 

Because of this reality, the relatively few American women who are even remotely attractive can afford to be overly selective and get away with it.

So, if I understand you right the competition is your main motivator. 

I don't know if you are looking for your "Slavic soulmate" or not, but I guess you speak for yourself being based on your own experience     

[Frenchdude]

Sorry Olga but I strongly suspect you have not understood my point. But it is alright, most western women would have an equally hard time getting it. Having said that, I did not mean to express my personal opinion on this subject but provide a candid analysis based on basic macroeconomics. I understand that most women tend to be offended by any over rationalization of human relations especially when it comes to romantic ones. So I let me conclude with one of my favorite saws: "Ignorance is bliss".

[OlgaH]

Sorry Olga but I strongly suspect you have not understood my point. But it is alright, most western women would have an equally hard time getting it. Having said that, I did not mean to express my personal opinion on this subject but provide a candid analysis based on basic macroeconomics. I understand that most women tend to be offended by any over rationalization of human relations especially when it comes to romantic ones. So I let me conclude with one of my favorite saws: "Ignorance is bliss".

Now I see that I have understood your point  as I have understood that you have had a bitter experience not only with Western women but also with Slavic women  in your life... 

[Mark Davis]

Great question!

In my case, when I had first become single again I traveled to Brazil and Costa Rica to blow off some steam and have fun, but I was caught by surprise by some very wonderful women there.  There was one lady in each of those countries that I would have been very happy with and would have made for great long-term relationships with me. 

I came back and started dating in the US.  Wow, what a contrast. 

In Brazil and Costa Rica the women there made me the center of their conversation and attention.  They seemed genuinely fascinated by my life stories.  They were focused on me - was I hungry, thirsty, or bored.  They would respond in kind to whatever subtle hint of need they could pick up on.  This was true of women I dated as well as just women on the street.  I wanted to find a cigar shop and asked the landlady who owned the flat I rented.  She sent her beautiful daughter to walk me down the street to the store.  She realized I hadn't really seen much of Rio yet so she cancelled her afternoon and we walked and saw the town.  Late afternoon came.  She made sure I was happy with the time we spent and she went back to whatever she was doing before.  Nothing sexual about it.  Just a wonderful appreciation for men.

After finding this in more cities in Brazil and Costa Rica I realized how wonderful it felt to be so respected.  In the heart of a good man, this kind of appreciation for masculinity makes him want to lavish attention and good things on the lady.

When I returned I had the opposite experience.  I actaully had one women say, "I've been asked out on many dates by many men before.  So, tell me, if I went out with you, what kind of date would you take me on?"  Like I was in a talent show and needed to perform before a panel of judges.  Here, it is all about what the women want.  And they tend to get whatever they want.

I had a friend of mine who told me about his friend who married a Russian woman seven years earlier after complaining about the same issues with dating US women.  I met with this man and he turned me on to AFA.  After writing to a couple of ladies, it resonated strongly in my heart that this is what I was looking for.

Yes, the FSU ladies take better care of themselves and dress better than their US or UK competition.  But, for me, that just eliminated the need to look exclusively for exterior beauty.  It's like, that box was already checked off before I went there.  Now it was just a matter of finding the one that connected with my soul.  And I found her.

As a man, I need affection, admiration, and appreciation.  I also desire to be surrounded by beauty - nature, music, art, and a lovely spouse.  For the man who finds this combination, he will lavish upon his queen the good things of this world and work to win her heart. 

Women in the US don't value a man just because he is a family man, brings home his paycheck, gives her romantic attention, and isn't drunk all the time.  To the women in most of the non-industrialized nations, we are a rare and golden commodity. 

It's just a match made in heaven!

Mark

[Jumper]

frenchdude said

The truth of the matter is, unless you are very wealthy, very good-looking and young or a combination thereof, it is virtually impossible to marry a very attractive woman in the US. Trust me, I have been there and done that.

we all have our own experiences and views.

i'm neither wealthy, really good looking ,really what i'd consider young, and certainly not  a combination of those..lol
regardless  prior was married to a truly beautiful AW.(by most anyones standards ,and that was  inside and out)
nor did i lack other similar oppurtunities in AW,   so i've been there done that. simply had different results and experiences.


but i do agree with you that there is a  certain amount of a big entitlement attitude to some
AW (often espiecially in those with rather little to offer in personality( or any department)),, and that is odd.
bizaare even,,but i do see it daily almost.


still MOST AW are indeed married,and most have children..?
so for you to quote statistics of half or more than half  awful or being *undoable*.
etc etc is simply not reality? as they are to *most* AM?
and there are many many happy American families
by your statistics there would  be very very few?

you may be onto to something that avoiding that "entitlement 'tude"
is a driving force in this whole thing though..

but sadly i think many AM venturing thru the agency minefield will find  a bit more of that entitlement mentality in that particular RW  situation (MOB) , than they ran from initially...

*out of the frying pan, into the fire * comes to mind ..

[Misha]

still MOST AW are indeed married,and most have children..?
so for you to quote statistics of half or more than half  awful or being *undoable*.
etc etc is simply not reality?

Well, the key worried is married. Presumably, you want to date women who are not married. The factor is both age and beauty. The typical man seeking a wife overseas tends to be, from what I gather, mid-forties or older and divorced. If he were looking for mid-forties divorced women, then there would be a lot of choices. However, he will likely be interested in attractive, much younger women (remember that the average age difference here is 16  years). Consequently, the mid-40s divorced man is looking for the late twenties-early thirties attractive woman who is not already married. He will be in competition with younger men vying for women from the same age bracket. Consequently, the competition for the decent, attractive, unmarried and looking to be married, late twenties woman will be very high. Yes, he may date her, but will she want to marry him?

[Mishenka]

Olga, you have asked a great question here.  I can answer it in a single word. Why did I seek a Russian wife?

 "QUALITY"

In the vernacular, quality,  a high degree of excellence, fineness, character, attributes.

I could not find such quality in an AW. The attitude in Russian women, in my age range doesn't exist in AW.

Galina possesses all the qualities I look for in a woman. I could write volumes of books to describe her. Both simple yet complicated, Mother and daughter, wife and best friend. Loving, giving, caring, nurturing, respectful, honorable, has a strong sense of dignity, supportive, serving others before herself, intelligent, teachable, willing to admit when wrong, taking credit when right. Good high self esteem yet humble. Her moods may change from happy to sad,  but she is so responsive to me, and it only takes a good listener, some encouragement, a smile, a kiss, a hug and her mood brightens up. she can be demanding, which keeps me on my toes, alert and attentive.  We need this sometimes. Natural beauty from the heart and soul,  mind and body.  Charming,, da, da, ochen ochen silno, she has captured my heart.

About Aw?    I look for these things and can not find them....... they are found lacking in a serious way.

[HiTech]

My reasons.

I am not poor, Your choice if I am attractive.

I am 48 and was never married before, I was 46 when I started looking in the FSU. I think my taste for beauty as always been slightly above my looks. So consequently if I was dating some one who I considered vary attractive, they had some type of character flaw that prevented us from a long term relationship. I found my self very from the age of 35 to 45 build 1 company taking it public on the NASDAQ, and then starting a 2nd company in 2000. I had almost given up on ever having children, and finding a wife who also had never been married.

2 years ago while visiting my parents for Christmas, I was responding to some emails on match.com. My brother inlaw jokingly said have I ever looked for a Russian mail order bride.  We did some net searching found Anastasia Web ,and just did some photo looking.  When I returned to Texas after Christmas I started doing some internet research on dating women from the FSU. I bought into the hype from Elenas models on how wonderful FSU woman were, and how age differences were less of an issue in the FSU.

So all I was looking for is simply a woman who had not been married, and wanted to have children, and a woman I was attracted to. These are very simple criteria that I would think are very normal.

I still state this reason to woman from America who ask me why I went to the Ukraine, they try and say I should look in the USA, I give them my 3 criteria and say "what woman do you know who has never been married, not very over weight, no kids and would date me for anything but money". For some reason they never know of any.

So the why I looked some place other than the USA is simple, it was possible, and I thought the odds greater to find the woman I was looking for in the FSU instead of the USA.

So why I looked in the FSU instead of some other possibilities such as Brazil, costa rica, or Columbia is simply a mater chance that my bother inlaw mentioned Russia.

Alyona is 30 I am 48, I wish we could be closer in age. My only criteria was that a woman wanted and could have children, my criteria was 29 to 37, but just as in the USA, it is very hard to find a good 37 year old woman who has not been married and wants children.

____________________

Other thoughts on this subject.

I believe I have seen a great devide between men who succeed in finding a wife and have a true loving relationship vs the average man who writes woman in the FSU.

If you look at the men on this sight who have been married to a FSU long term, most are very successful confident men. Self starters and adventures in some way.

But if you look at some simple math and estimations.

Per USCIS about 850 K-1s are issued to the Ukraine per year. Speaking with my visa lawyer he estimates about 45% of K-1s the woman returns with out marriage.

so about only 500 k-1 marriages happen with Ukrainian woman with men in the USA. Take your best guess on number of men members on Russian dating sights from the USA, 30k 50k? anyway a quick guess would say only 1 - 5% of men who start this process ever end up with a good woman in a successful marriage.

And I believe the men and woman who have been successful as this endeavor are not the norm of people searching for woman in the FSU, and hence why most of its stereotypes are true. I believe the getting started, and Introduce yourself threads are much more representative of the men looking than the other topics.

Dale





 

[daveyj]

Western culture, and expecially North American, is highly focused on economics. A western women is defined mainly by "what she does" (ie career), - just the same as a man.  It seems they are almost offended by the suggestion that they are incomplete or unsuccessful by not being a wife and mother.  In contrast, I have had great success in many areas of life, but have always viewed that solely as a means to providing for a family, and personally I will consider my life a disappointment until I marry and start a family.

In contrast, in Russian culture it seems that women are defined (ie valued) more by the more traditional qualities of lover/homemaker/wife/mother.  I have had numerous experiences where I am walking along a downtown street and I see a couple of beautiful, feminine, well-dressed ladies gliding towards me and as we pass I hear they are speaking Russian (or some Eastern European language).

For me, I am looking for a women who is willing to focus on our relationship.  That is where my mindset is at, and I can take care of the economic side of the relationship.

I also appreciate the strong character of a Russian woman - they have gone through a lot of challenging times in Russia over the past 20 years (and prior) and I greatly admire their "survivor" qualaties.  I myself have been slapped around by the fates and have come through it stronger and wiser, and I appreciate a women that I can respect for having overcome some adversity.

Finally, I'll be perfectly frank and say that I am very, very attracted to eastern european women.  Always have been.  I don't feel this away about women from the germany/africa/china/etc, but Russian women rock my world.  I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way, but I consider Russian women to be "genetically superior" (I think they are gorgeous)

So to sum up...
I find them attractive
I view them as good lovers/wives/mothers
I value their strength of character.

my 2 cents

[Misha]

In contrast, in Russian culture it seems that women are defined (ie valued) more by the more traditional qualities of lover/homemaker/wife/mother.  I have had numerous experiences where I am walking along a downtown street and I see a couple of beautiful, feminine, well-dressed ladies gliding towards me and as we pass I hear they are speaking Russian (or some Eastern European language).

I am curious, what is the link between being a good mother and homemaker and being beautiful, feminine and well-dressed?

[daveyj]

I am curious, what is the link between being a good mother and homemaker and being beautiful, feminine and well-dressed?

Are you asking me?  If so, I never said there was such a link.

You have paraphrased my post, and omitted the reference to lover & wife.

If you include the lover/wife part of the sentence, then I trust that the link is self evident?

[Misha]

Are you asking me?  If so, I never said there was such a link.

You have paraphrased my post, and omitted the reference to lover & wife.

If you include the lover/wife part of the sentence, then I trust that the link is self evident?

Well, well-dressed and attractive does not necessarily guarantee a good lover either .

[daveyj]

Well, well-dressed and attractive does not necessarily guarantee a good lover either .

True enough.

[groovlstk]

In contrast, in Russian culture it seems that women are defined (ie valued) more by the more traditional qualities of lover/homemaker/wife/mother.

In my experience this is one of those myths that can probably be traced back to marriage agencies who seek to snooker guys via the old "traditional women" hook. The only thing I've found "traditional" about RW that I feel comfortable enough to generalize about is that they are a lot more clear about gender roles. In the US and in particular big cities like NYC, those lines are blurred and even where they aren't blurred men are supposed to pretend they don't exist when, for example, it's assumed they should perform manual labor or make repairs around the house or apt., etc.

[Chicagoguy]

I have one more comment and maybe it is slightly off topic but was a surprise for me.

I met a couple from Siberia in 1992 and helped them and their baby move here 2 years later. Neither spoke any English. Fast forward to now and they are both very successful.

And they think I am crazy for bringing my Russian fiance over here. Neither can understand why I would want to marry a foreigner. It certainly gave me pause.

[Misha]

And they think I am crazy for bringing my Russian fiance over here. Neither can understand why I would want to marry a foreigner. It certainly gave me pause.

Well, based on what I read here, I would have to say that I would share their opinion in most cases 

[SANDRO43]

A western women is ... For me, I am looking for a women

Daveyj, are those plurals a Freudian slip, revealing that you're actually looking for a harem ?

[SilverBUllet]

Alyona is 30 I am 48, I wish we could be closer in age. My only criteria was that a woman wanted and could have children, my criteria was 29 to 37, but just as in the USA, it is very hard to find a good 37 year old woman who has not been married and wants children.

Dale, Thanks for sharing your experience and being straight forward in terms of what you were looking for. Were you concerned about the age difference at all? The majority of the women on Eastern European dating sites are in the 20 to 30-year range and in most cases there will automatically be a significant age difference between couples. BTW, how long time did the finance visa take? Thanks. SB