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Author Topic: Russia vs Georgia round 2?  (Read 5507 times)

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Offline acrzybear

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Russia vs Georgia round 2?
« on: August 04, 2009, 02:06:42 PM »
Interesting! I haven't heard anything from the Georgia side (unlike last go round) So what effects (if any) do you think this will affect Russia's relations with the west?


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090804/ap_on_re_eu/eu_russia_georgia


Russian troops on high readiness in South Ossetia

By VLADIMIR ISACHENKOV, Associated Press Writer Vladimir Isachenkov

MOSCOW – Russian troops in the breakaway province of South Ossetia have been put on increased combat readiness amid rising tensions on the de facto border with Georgia, officials said Tuesday.

Andrei Nesterenko, the spokesman for Russia's Foreign Ministry, said the move was a response to Georgian "provocations" and meant to prevent more violence.

"The most important thing now is to prevent escalation and not to allow skirmishes to grow into bigger clashes," Nesterenko said.

The situation near South Ossetia has become increasingly tense as the first anniversary of the Russian-Georgian war approaches Friday, with Georgia and Russia blaming each other for provocations and intentions to resume fighting.

U.S. President Barack Obama and Russian President Dmitry Medvedev discussed the "lessons of last year's Georgian crisis" in a telephone conversation late Tuesday, the Kremlin said in a statement. There was no elaboration.

Obama said during a recent summit in Moscow that Georgia's territorial integrity must be respected.

The August 2008 conflict erupted after escalating exchanges of fire between Georgia and Moscow-backed South Ossetian forces.

South Ossetia's separatists and Georgian authorities have accused each other of firing guns and mortar rounds on several occasions over the past few days.

The separatist leader, Eduard Kokoity, told The Associated Press in an interview Tuesday that "there is a danger that August 2008 will be repeated."

"Today, Georgia's military is more combat-ready and has a stronger potential" than during the run-up to last year's conflict, Kokoity said.

In the latest incident, Monday night, South Ossetia's separatist authorities said three mortar rounds were fired into South Ossetia from Georgian-controlled territory. Georgian authorities denied the claim and accused separatists of firing rocket-propelled grenades at a Georgian checkpoint near South Ossetia. No one was hurt.

The European Union said it was concerned about mutual accusations of shelling and other incidents, but added that EU monitors in Georgia had seen no evidence confirming them so far.

"The EU urges all sides to refrain from any statement or action that may lead to increased tensions at this particularly sensitive time," the international organization said in a statement late Monday.

EU monitors are the only international ones remaining in Georgia, but they are blocked from traveling inside South Ossetia and Abkhazia. A EU-brokered truce ended the five-day August war between Georgia and Russia. Russia sent in thousands of troops and tanks that routed the Georgian military and drove deep into Georgia.

Georgian authorities claimed they had to launch the artillery barrage on Tskhinvali, the provincial capital, because Russian troops had moved into South Ossetia hours earlier. Russian officials denied this, and claimed the country acted to protect its peacekeepers and civilians there.

After the war, Russia recognized South Ossetia and Abkhazia, another separatist region in Georgia, as independent nations and permanently deployed thousands of troops there.

The only other country to recognize the regions' independence is Nicaragua.

Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili said in an interview with France's RTL radio broadcast Tuesday that there is a risk of a new conflict because Russia was putting constant pressure on Georgia. He said Georgia would not engage in conflict with Russia but would defend itself if necessary.

Meanwhile, a senior Russian diplomat voiced concern about what he said were U.S. plans to provide military assistance to Georgia.

"Washington is playing the key role in rearming the Georgian military machine," Grigory Karasin, a deputy foreign minister, said in comments reported Tuesday by the Interfax agency. "It would be in the interests of Georgian democracy ... to refuse to arm this country at all."

South Ossetia's Kokoity echoed Karasin's sentiments, saying countries that arm Georgia "are responsible for any further (military) developments."

The U.S. is discussing a Georgian request for $16 million in military aid this year, with most of the money intended for training and technical assistance. But Washington reacted coolly after Saakashvili told The Washington Post that Georgia was interested in acquiring heavy weapons for defensive purposes.

AP writer Mansur Mirovalev contributed from Tskhinvali, Georgia.
Necessitas dat ingenium

Offline Sculpto

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Re: Russia vs Georgia round 2?
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2009, 02:18:43 PM »
reality is this conflict is not simply about Georgia and South Ossetia.. take a look at a geographic map, religious map and natural resources map and things get a lot more clear.

http://larussophobe.wordpress.com/2009/06/08/bloody-dagestan-out-of-control/

Offline Link

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Re: Russia vs Georgia round 2?
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2009, 09:20:42 AM »
reality is this conflict is not simply about Georgia and South Ossetia.. take a look at a geographic map, religious map and natural resources map and things get a lot more clear.

http://larussophobe.wordpress.com/2009/06/08/bloody-dagestan-out-of-control/

It all becomes crystal clear once you take into account those factors

Offline ECOCKS

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Re: Russia vs Georgia round 2?
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2009, 09:37:13 AM »
My thoughts and prayers are for the Georgian people at this time. It's a shame that the EU will not stand up to one of the few combat-ready formations the Russkis have. Putin's a hell of a poker player, no doubt!
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Offline kievstar

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Re: Russia vs Georgia round 2?
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2009, 10:33:54 AM »
EU does not really protect anyone unless it benefits themselves.  Even within the EU there divided. 

Offline OlgaH

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Re: Russia vs Georgia round 2?
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2009, 11:50:26 AM »

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090804/ap_on_re_eu/eu_russia_georgia

Georgian authorities claimed they had to launch the artillery barrage on Tskhinvali, the provincial capital, because Russian troops had moved into South Ossetia hours earlier. Russian officials denied this, and claimed the country acted to protect its peacekeepers and civilians there.


According to information obtained by SPIEGEL, the television appearance by General Kurashvili plays a key role in the investigation. His remarks indicate that Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili was not repelling "Russian aggression," as he continues to claim to this day, but was planning a war of aggression.

In fact, the Georgian leadership, as Western observers noticed, had already amassed 12,000 troops and 75 tanks on the border with South Ossetia on the morning of Aug. 7. In a decree ordering a general mobilization, which was not published until Aug. 9, Saakashvili noted that the Russian troops had advanced through the Roki tunnel on Aug. 8, which was after the Georgian attack.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,615160,00.html


The August conflict over South Ossetia came as no surprise to the United States, according to the outgoing US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.
“I don’t think that in the days before the events of August 8, Georgia really behaved in a way that was responsible,” Rice said. http://www.infowars.com/georgia%E2%80%99s-attack-was-no-surprise-rice/

Nevertheless, a number of commission members are curious to know what John Tefft, the US ambassador in Tbilisi and a former advisor at the National War College in Washington, knew about Saakashvili's marching orders. One question they would like to ask is why no one at the US State Department took a call from Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Grigory Karasin when the war broke out in the early morning hours of August 8 -- when it was afternoon in Washington.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,630543,00.html
« Last Edit: August 15, 2009, 12:21:42 PM by OlgaH »

Offline kievstar

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Re: Russia vs Georgia round 2?
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2009, 03:01:59 PM »
OlgaH, the reason no one took the call from "Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Grigory Karasin ". because when it comes with Russia USA likes to deal with the top 2.  Otherwise the USA is just wasting their time. 

Georgia war was good as it put a permanent divide within the former FSU countries and many people. 

Offline ECOCKS

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Re: Russia vs Georgia round 2?
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2009, 04:06:19 PM »
Sort of ironic really, Russia rattles its saber against a "safe" opponent in order to let the other FSU countries know they are still a force in the region, yet it makes it clear to the rest of the world that they are rapidly becoming a second-rate power.

While solidifying the resentment of several governments, the real test of this stratef=gy will be the reaction of the people throughout the FSU/CIS. If they (Puty and his pet bear) waited too late for the "old" generation to be afraid of retribution, this new generation may begin to realize how their system still works and lean even further towards the West.

Time will tell.
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Offline BC

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Re: Russia vs Georgia round 2?
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2009, 04:26:41 PM »
Time will tell.

Indeed.

The EU report should be fairly conclusive but unfortunately will not shed light on 'outside players' involved.

OlgaH, the reason no one took the call from "Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Grigory Karasin ". because when it comes with Russia USA likes to deal with the top 2.  Otherwise the USA is just wasting their time.  

Not taking that call was certainly directed.  Answering would have required some response.  At the very least a diplomatic 'FU' statement.

I'm quite sure GWB and his gf Condi were not in the least surprised reading their morning newspapers, despite reports to the contrary.

Is pretty sad though that the US has such a long record of supporting loose cannons around the world. I highly doubt it was any different regarding Georgia.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2009, 04:28:24 PM by BC »

Offline OlgaH

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Re: Russia vs Georgia round 2?
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2009, 04:59:19 PM »
My thoughts and prayers are for the Georgian people at this time.

especially for tens of thousands of Georgian protesters against Saakashvili's regime   ;)

Quote

"We have no other way out but to stand here until the end, until the Judas of Georgian politics resigns," Levan Gachechiladze, a former presidential candidate, told the crowd.

The President, a US-trained lawyer, has come under increasing pressure since Georgia's disastrous war with Russia last year, which even some of Mr Saakashvili's key allies accused him of mishandling and for which, they say, he should take responsibility.

He is also accused of betraying the values of the 2003 Rose Revolution that swept him to power by persecuting critics, stifling the media and concentrating power in his own hands.


Offline OlgaH

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Re: Russia vs Georgia round 2?
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2009, 05:04:54 PM »


Not taking that call was certainly directed.  

After Rice's report about the behavior of Saakashvili months before the war and most likely her suggestion how those cards could be played in favor of US politics  ;D
« Last Edit: August 15, 2009, 05:06:51 PM by OlgaH »

Offline BC

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Re: Russia vs Georgia round 2?
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2009, 05:09:54 PM »
"Saakashvili eats his tie"

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kid379OjuC0[/youtube]

Offline Vaughn

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Re: Russia vs Georgia round 2?
« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2009, 05:21:56 PM »
Quote
stifling the media ...

That reminds me - just the other night Russian Channel One aired a replay of the
American woman and her teenaged daughter, then residents of South Ossetia, whose
interview on Georgian TV was suddenly interrupted by the moderator as they began to
relate events that didn't exactly blend well with the Georgian "spin".... they were
summarily cut off as programming shifted to a commercial and they were hustled out the
door.

I recall switching back & forth between Western and Russian reports - it was difficult to know
who to believe back then when things erupted.

Offline Kuna

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Re: Russia vs Georgia round 2?
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2009, 06:40:51 PM »
That reminds me - just the other night Russian Channel One aired a replay of the
American woman and her teenaged daughter, then residents of South Ossetia, whose
interview on Georgian TV was suddenly interrupted by the moderator as they began to
relate events that didn't exactly blend well with the Georgian "spin".... they were
summarily cut off as programming shifted to a commercial and they were hustled out the
door.

I recall switching back & forth between Western and Russian reports - it was difficult to know
who to believe back then when things erupted.

Vaughn,

I remember the same thing.

In the early days of the "war" the news from both Russia and Georgian sides were understandable...  There was conflict and pretty much agrement over what the conflict was about.  Condi Rice made some statement on the conflict and after that it was like someone was speaking Madarin and the other Speaking Spanish...  the two sides of the news were just garbled.

Of course in the west we're conditioned to believe western media and accuse the Russians of dishonesty - but I don't think we were getting the real story after the first few days.

Interesting that the US is meddling again in the region.

http://en.rian.ru/world/20090815/155818106.html

Kuna

Offline ECOCKS

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Re: Russia vs Georgia round 2?
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2009, 09:00:21 PM »
Yeah, if I was Putin, I'd be worried about 65-70 marines being that close to Russia too.
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Offline acrzybear

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Re: Russia vs Georgia round 2?
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2009, 09:12:38 PM »
And yet no one has even mentioned the fact that Russia is allowing the U.S to transport military equipment through their country into Afghanistan.  I don't think Obama and his cronies want to upset that apple cart.
 
But hey what do I know  :noidea: ::)
« Last Edit: August 16, 2009, 08:08:58 AM by acrzybear »
Necessitas dat ingenium

Offline OlgaH

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Re: Russia vs Georgia round 2?
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2009, 09:55:32 PM »
Yeah, if I was Putin, I'd be worried about 65-70 marines being that close to Russia too.

It is not about being worried about 65-70 marines but about providing military assistance to Georgia that already broke its pledge never to resort to force against South Ossetia and Abkhazia. 

"The United States helped train Georgian troops for a mission in Iraq before last August's armed conflict".

I guess US did not do a good job last time training Georgian troops...  hackworkers  ;D

 

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