Nice American Man wondering about his relationship with Ukraine woman

[Johnny2009]

As a fairly new member to this forum this was one of the first posts I read, and felt that I should add my opinion also. But lets face it guys, after 24 pages of posts, this guy is simply not going to listen!!

GOB’s advice is sound, if you are 50, just ignore the beauty queens in their 20’s, I did, and I am only 35 now, 34 then!

$20,000 on one girl how only kissed him twice “insert any words of disappear here”!!! WAKE UP MAN!!!

Bottom line, these girls and the subsequent Ukrainian girls are going to “eat him for breakfast”!!!

Bottom line 2, just read his last post, he’s going to do the same thing all again, and pay zero attention to reality.

 

[GoodOlBoy]

Good God, man - where is Muddy when he's finally needed?

Hey Groovlstk.

He's banned.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=10226.0


GOB


PS.....See Dan, this is what I was talking about in my PM to you. 

This could have been Muddy's "shining moment" here on RWD!  :evil:

[tim 360]

Ken, I don't know why you continue to punish yourself.  This should all be quite obvious to you and yet it is not.  This chick Inna is not your friend and she has been playing you for a sucker big-time.  Stop.  A fool and his money are soon parted.  How much more do you want to lose?  Inna is not your "friend".  Her girlfriends definitely will milk you.  

There is no good reason for you to go to Ukraine now.  Stay home.  What is left of you will be chewed-up and spit out.  You have been conned and you are still playing the fool.    

Get some help.  Really.  Don't waste your time and money in Ukraine until you get your head screwed on properly.  The big one, not the little one.  Good luck! :selfharm:

[KenC]

Ken,
You would have been better off spending your $20K on lap dances.  You would have received much more affection with the 1,000 dances than you did from this girl with as much sincerity.

She never viewed you as a potential lover, that is only a figment of YOUR imagination.  This all was a huge mistake in judgement by you fueled by your fantasy of buying her heart through lavish gifts.  Do not compound the mistake by giving her anything more.  If she is willing to return any of your gifts, take them.  You may be able to give them to a woman in the future that may be deserving.

Dude, you're 51, learn from this and MOVE ON.  I know you want children as it is your excuse to be trolling in the younger pool of RW, but a divorced woman of 35 or 36 with some life experience would be a much better choice to pursue.  Regardless of your future plans, stop being such a foolish man with your money.  You just blew $20K on a wet dream.
KenC

[Faux Pas]

Ken,
You would have been better off spending your $20K on lap dances.  You would have received much more affection with the 1,000 dances than you did from this girl with as much sincerity.

She never viewed you as a potential lover, that is only a figment of YOUR imagination.  This all was a huge mistake in judgement by you fueled by your fantasy of buying her heart through lavish gifts.  Do not compound the mistake by giving her anything more.  If she is willing to return any of your gifts, take them.  You may be able to give them to a woman in the future that may be deserving.

Dude, you're 51, learn from this and MOVE ON.  I know you want children as it is your excuse to be trolling in the younger pool of RW, but a divorced woman of 35 or 36 with some life experience would be a much better choice to pursue.  Regardless of your future plans, stop being such a foolish man with your money.  You just blew $20K on a wet dream.
KenC

I echo KenC's sentiments here.

kens1958, I can only assume the "realistic next time around" is just not going to resonate with you. Listen guy, she was playing you from before your first visit and has played you like a finely tuned fiddle ever since. You appear to be headed straight for another ATM doormat role just as fast as you can. It appears to be the role you are most comfortable in, having let many other girls treat you the same way in the past.

You would be better served spending that 20K on the local young strippers and hookers. At least you would have satisfied the physical needs left void by your UA beauty. Which btw, her actions were the same as a hookers without the half the effort.

Wake up man! You aren't going to find your lost youth throwing money at these young women with fleeting hopes of getting in their pannies. You are not a serious man kens, no matter how much money you throw out. Until you decide to get serious, love is going to run from you like a horse with it's ass on fire.

That fantasy of yours will likely wind up destroying you financially, mentally and physically if you don't check yourself

[Sculpto]

I know you guys like the tough love approach, and maybe it is the right thing to do, but, there is a more serious issue here that is being ignored.

The facts of what happened are no longer important in the least.

What is important Ken, is introspection.  Rather than Muddy being the right guy for this moment.. actually, the right guy is JollyRats who has shown many times his proficiency with self improvement.  If Jolly is available I am volunteering him to talk to Ken.

Ken.. one last thing.. I suggest you DO go ahead and make this trip.  Throw caution to the wind and just have FUN!  Forget girls you met on the internet!  Practice your game.  Learn!  Go to nightclubs!  Live each day like it is your last.  If you are going to Lugansk I have reliable friends there who can help you.  PM me for contact info.  I would also say forget Nikolaev.. there are pretty girls EVERYWHERE.. why step into the fire zone without protective armor?   (yes I understand Lugansk and the previous comment, but, I do have trustworthy people there and do not in Nikolaev or Odessa)

One more last thing.. stop using sites with web cams!  That is 99% of the problem with the ladies you are finding.

[Mars]

OK, enough people have jumped on Ken, so I won't add.
Luckily for me, I have assiduously avoided the 20 somethings so can't really relate to those who have fallen into this trap.

But I have some doubts about Ken's $20,000 number.
I don't think this number is strictly for gifts to Inna.

I think the $20,000 number includes everything he spent in pursuing this venture.  i.e. Plane tickets, hotels, apartments, food, etc.  Still, no doubt the actual money spent on gifts for Inna was over the top; but I don't think it was $20,000.

So Ken, do you want to elaborate on this?

[KenC]

Faux,
You said:

Listen guy, she was playing you from before your first visit

This is an incorrect statement.  Ken met her at a friggen tour party!

Sculpto er, 2012,
I actually agree with you about Ken's lack of self esteem. 

Mars,
I thought about that too.  Still he did buy her a computer, cell phone, took her and her body guard sister on a vacation to Yalta, flowers everyday yada yada yada  Way too much for a tour party pick up.

Ken,
You are in the best shape of your life.  You say you look good, now it is time to act like you ARE good.  Go romance some RW with your wit and charm not your wallet.  If you show the confidence that you, Ken, are worthy of a good woman, you will find one.  Women are attracted to confident men like moths to a flame.  Go get your personal sh!t in order.  Take a Tony friggen Robbins course for Christs sake!  Your over spending is just compensating for your personal insecurities.
KenC

[kens1958]

Thanks to all of you. I am enjoying the comments tremendously.
1st I will no longer be spending money on girls.... I learned a long time ago that that was the fastest way to attract a gold digger in America.... silly me I thought that a woman in eastern Europe would be fundamentally different than one in north America... Some incite on this ... I think that when a man spends lavishly on a woman and especially if he is always giving and pushing things on her ... I think she starts to resent it and feels as she is just another one of his toys ... that mean nothing.... I have observed that woman would much more like to share equally in the giving exchange.. my observations are that the best relationships are where both parties equally persue the other.... If one is doing all the giving ... the other can actually feel resentment....after I learned this with American woman I did much better... a woman or man always wants what they must reach for ... not something that is just thrown at their feet.... unless of course it is a doormat to wipe their feet.
Now I will be much more guarded in my relations ... I will not allow myself to fall for a smile or a pretty face... and if she is not openly showing her attraction for me.. I will just move on.....why wast her and my time pretending that there is something where there is only air....
As for her friends. I figured that out already... I am not going to see any of her friends ... for them I may be just a target....
I am member of many dating sites and I have already met girls from sites liked by this forum. I am now going over to Ukraine and I will play down any financial ideas... I will act as if I had nothing..... after all money can actually get in the way of a good relationship..... and I am sorry for any girls I date but I will not give gifts until I am married even then I will keep it simple...... some of you know this money relay does get in the way of true intimacy and love often.
Of coarse I do not expect to have romance on this trip.... I have One week planed to visit one girl .... and another week planed to visit another girl...... I am sorry to the great girls on this forum.... I wish I was only going to visit one girl .... but I am feeling gun shy and I just plan on relaxing and having fun.... Both of the girls I am going to visit know about Inna and I have told them that I am not prepared for a serious relationship   just now.... neither of the girls knows about the other....I have several girls that I met in Odessa and Nikola   on my last trip that would love to get together for an enjoyable time.... so If my main dates and I do not hit it off I have several back ups to chose from...... Girls..... please note I am trying to be open and Honest in telling all of these girls that I am already coming over and I am only prepared to offer friendship at this time..... a few girls have hinted at gifts and I replied that I will have a schedule conflict so I can not see them after all......
As for prostitutes and striper's...... Guys..... I just get nothing out of commitment less s?x I guess I am old or something ... but I need to feel a strong emotional tie with a woman or I would rather go with out..... and I do love
s?x   just with some one who I feel committed to.....
Tim , Misha and Mars thanks for the words..
OK so what do I think I have learned or re learned?
1) don't think that money is ever a factor in a true relationship
2) if the girl does not Chase you as much as you chase her ... she is not into you.....
3) age does matter... so don't kid yourself and think your the one in 10 million exception
4) relax have fun be yourself and let things happen neutrally....
5) don't fall for the first smile or pretty words that you hear or see.... hold back and see if their is any substance behind  it all
6) be patient all relationships should be built on equal attraction ... if she does not seem to be attracted to you smile and move on why waste your time , heart or money..... and don't insult her by trying to make something where nothing real exist..... you will just be a source of cash and toys for her and she will resent you for it....
all of this is true in any country throughout the world..
I am sure I missed much in this post so If you have more bullet points for me please give them as I really am ready to learn from my mistakes...... even if some doubt it my intention is there and my mine is open.... my heart is closed.... now I will just get to know some fun people from FSU and leave romance for some other time..... and yes I conceded just writing off my trip and staying home.... but I felt that would just make me depressed... so instead I will go to have simple fun...By the way I have deleted all of Inna's contact info from my sky and my phone... I have deleted her photos.... I now have my youngest daughter as my phone screen... I don't hate her.... yes I'm sorry to say I still have deep feelings for her... and I could probably be taken advantage of by her if she try ed.... But I will give no more presents to any one..... and send no more money...
Mars as to how much actual gifts... OK the package I sent in Aug had $4,000 undesigned cloths for Inna and her daughter .. POLO jackets and dresses... computer toys etc... I have another $4,000 in gifts in my suit case I was bringing to her. new computer ... last one broke   Designer clothe etc... I sent about $800 per month in cash , I gave her $2,000 in Jules from Kev Jules.... that I bought in Nikola... a new $500 phone ..best in store... new shoes... new purse, Nye polo hat, new dresses all bought in Nikola..... Taxis, hotells for her and her girl friend,   money for travel so she could get permission to take her daughter to turkey for our vacation, money for an international passport, books on learning English .. in Russian... money spent to web chat with her
In all I have spent over $30,000... but I am not such an asshole that I am trying to keep score.... I just have an account that all of my Ukraine adventures comes out of and I am over the $30,000 mark on it.... so I estimate that $20,000 of that was directly to Inna... I feel bad now that I have counted it up because if you are keeping score what does that say about your intentions.... I still think romance should not be about the money..... so now I will keep money out of my relations and see who like me for me.... if I score a 0 so be it at least it will be an honest 0

[sunandsail]

kens1958, the posters were not suggesting you use prostitutes and strippers.   They were pointing out that as bad a choice that might be, what you were doing was even more foolish.

Also, whether posting on a board or writing your loved ones of the future - the invention of the paragraph and a space every now and then sure would make your writing easier to read.

[KenC]

Ken1958,
I think you're a decent guy.  Way too naive, but decent.  You make a lot of correct statements above, that you have learned your lesson bla bla bla.  But I see some fundamental errors in your thinking.

Some incite on this ... I think that when a man spends lavishly on a woman and especially if he is always giving and pushing things on her ... I think she starts to resent it and feels as she is just another one of his toys ... that mean nothing....
   
If one is doing all the giving ... the other can actually feel resentment....after I learned this with American woman I did much better... a woman or man always wants what they must reach for 

You still seem to be cutting this girl a break and a very big break in trying to assume what happened is your fault and your's alone.  Yes, you did many things wrong, but she is root of your mistake.  A good woman would not ever accept the things you gave her, especially without some emotional attachment for you.  You did not create any resentment due to your gifts, there just was never any emotional investment by her from the beginning.  Maybe she liked you, or maybe she just liked your gifts, who knows? :noidea:  One thing is for sure though, she never was honest with you about her intentions from the beginning.  Any woman with half a brain knows when a man has fallen for her.  She knew it.  At best, she just did not encourage your actions, but she never set you straight either.  She never came clean with you.  You only found out her deception through snooping around.  Think about it long and hard.
KenC

[Faux Pas]

kens1958,

There's really no point in setting some hard and fast rules for yourself that you know you'll likely not keep. When you do find a lady worth pursuing, there will not be "hints" of gifts. You will buy her something because YOU want to. You'll do things for her that YOU want to. If the lady is worth her salt and has one iota of moral integrity she will never hint or ask for gifts. There will never be questions on if you will be kissed or if or when you will bed the lady. These things will happen and in all likelihood happen naturally. She will not be destitute and reliant on your stipend for survival. I just point these things out because you seem to be on some self induced guilt trip. Get over it and as mentioned work on yourself and being a man. A man is not someone to be taken advantage of.

Good luck to you and I mean that.

 

[Gator]

Kens1958,

I am glad that you will take a trip soon.  So let's talk about the trip.

Both of the girls I am going to visit know about Inna and I have told them that I am not prepared for a serious relationship

BIG MISTAKE.  DON'T TELL RW ABOUT PAST WOMEN.  Don't introduce the subject.  If she raises the subject, say you will answer her questions but you rather talk about her, the woman in front of you.  NEVER GET INTO LONG DISCUSSIONS ABOUT PAST WOMEN IN YOUR LIFE.  If they ask about your ex-wife, tell about the “good” (such as your daughter) and say you do not want to discuss the “bad”.  

The cat is out of the bag regarding Inna.  Perhaps it is too late to stop a mistake.  What mistake?  The more your two dates know about Inna, the more they will think you are weak, a man-child, and they will have no respect for you.  Remember, these women have been trained by hard-nosed RM, not "touchy feely" AM.  They want a strong man who would not do such idiocy.  

please note I am trying to be open and Honest in telling all of these girls that I am already coming over and I am only prepared to offer friendship at this time

Makes you sound weak, certainly not a real man.  I think you have already ruined your chances with these women.  That’s okay, there are plenty of fish in the sea.  Have backup plans.


 

a few girls have hinted at gifts and I replied that I will have a schedule conflict so I can not see them after all.

Tell them you will have a little something.  If a bottle of French perfume disappoints them, take the bottle back, say “paka,” return to your flat and call a backup.

OK so what do I think I have learned or re learned?
1)   …
2)   …
.
.
6)   …

Good! So why do you write this nonsense?

 

yes I'm sorry to say I still have deep feelings for her...

Weak, weak, weak.  Inna took advantage of you.  Whoever (Misha?) said that a good RW would never let this happen is correct.  Inna is not a good RW.  Inna is young and was using her beauty to lure a weak man into giving her $20,000 without even having to kiss him.  

You recognized such in your six lessons learned when you wrote “you will just be a source of cash and toys for her and she will resent you for it.”  So how could you still harbor feelings?!  Those feelings are nothing more than low self-esteem missing the physical charm of a young pretty woman.  Weak, weak, weak.

I told you earlier that it is good to be generous, but after you know there is mutual affection.  And limit the generosity to a gift costing $200-500, something special to remember you and the week you just spent together. A good woman will be elated with such a gift coming from a man who she likes and wants to see again.


Tell us more please about the two women you plan to meet:  how you contacted them, what was said, etc.

[Gator]

Sex  

You seem confused about this.

Don’t be weak about this.  Based on my limited experience, RW can be divided into three categories: 

1.  Sex is very important, and they will want casual sex as part of dating and getting to know each other.
2.  Sex is not at the top of their list, yet they know how to please a man and will do so fervently, with warmth and passion, when they are ready, which is not very long.
3.  There is not a third category.

The above applies only if the RW is becoming more and more interested in you.  If not interested in you, no sex.

[GoodOlBoy]

BIG MISTAKE.  DON'T TELL RW ABOUT PAST WOMEN........NEVER GET INTO LONG DISCUSSIONS ABOUT PAST WOMEN IN YOUR LIFE........ I think you have already ruined your chances with these women

I'll go one step further than Gator and state for an unequivocal fact that you have zero chances of TRUE romance with these 2 women.

Ken, you poisoned your own well.

Better have a backup plan.


GOB

[GoodOlBoy]

I have another $4,000 in gifts in my suit case I was bringing to her.

Look Santa Ken,

Leave your "bag" of gifts at home. 

Return them to the store and get your money back or give them away to some orphanage or church here in the GoodOl' USA.

And....for the sake of the poor schmuck's following behind you, please do them all a favor and STOP spoiling the FSU fishing waters.


GOB

[Sculpto]

ditto echo agree.. existing contacts are going to be a waste of your time... maybe still worth meeting, but not likely.  Since it is only a week away best bet would be to get on a free site and start sending letters in a location you would like to visit.. simply stating you will be in town with some free time... and see what happens from that.

also agree with what GOB just said.. too many guys do what you do.. Im not judging, but, there are consequences for the people you gift and the men that come after you..

[Misha]

And....for the sake of the poor schmuck's following behind you, please do them all a favor and STOP spoiling the FSU fishing waters.

I am so happy that my wife had never dated anybody connected to the MOB industry  GOB is right, it is no wonder that some women have such unrealistic expectations when they have encountered or have heard of men spending tens of thousands of dollars on women who were complete strangers 

[kens1958]

wow everything youguys have told me has turned out correct.... Boy I guess I have just fallen over my own tung again.
Well it is a learning process. Thanks gator. When I was in Ukraine the first time my host were shocked that I spent the time and money on Inna and there was no sex.... as for low self esteem my wife kicked me out of the house and filed for divorce. My business partner made some shaky investments and put our business in jeopardy. the economy took a big chunk out of my paper worth. My ex is taking 1/2+ of what is left. I am on a one year break from my own company as I finish off a divorce... My ex moved a man 10+ years younger onto the private resort I built for my family.. I went from a size 30 waist to a size 42..... The courts give me an allowance from my own funds to live on and I have nothing to do all day...... well that sort of tears a man down.... especially when I'm used to being the big confident winner......
However all of that is changing.... I am now a size 34 waist and I am starting to get riped... I walk with confidence once again .... We are asking the courts to release more of my own funds so I can start a small investment business on the side to give me something to do..Did I mention that my ex accused me of hidding funds of shore and I have had forensic accountant's reviewing every financially transaction of the last few years.... looking for things that do not exist
OK so yeas I have felt like a big looser for all of 2009.... and as the year has drug on I have gotton worse....
Thank you for the clarity..... you guys have Ben like a breath of fresh winter air..... very sobering

I will not make the mistake of thinking that my 2 dates will be an exception and I do have backups in both towns as well as near by.....
I will not mention Inna to Anny other girls.... and I will look to see if they show intrest.... If not I will politely say good night and move on to the next back up

I will not show American patients or softness.  If they are not obviously into me I will not waste my time.

as for Inna ... all I can say is   "who?"    enough said

this is tough lessons ... but I hope I get them right.....  and I hope I can enjoy the journey.....

P.S. I know I should never of started this process before I had my head back on strait....
But the engineer in me put together a plan and I wanted to take this year to get back into shape and learn about FSU and FSU woman....

When I started I did not intend on a serious relationship for at least a year as I learned and got back in the game..

so as it turns out I have not had any serious relations only fantasies and dry dreams....

thanks to all I hope some day I will have a success story and I can be of help to another newbie on the forum..

Gator I met both girls on sites with chats and or webcam availability.   The girl in Lutanist I was supposed to visit In August but I canceled when I thought All was good with ?   then I recontacted her this last week and she jumped at the chance to spend time together... In Lutanist I have about 4 back ups that do not know about ?

The girl in Nikola .. is new and we both talked about heart break and decided it would be good to spend a week consoling each other to get over our ex....

Remember I am not expecting any serious relations on this trip....but I will not waste time with a girl that is UN intrested either.

In Nikola I have several girls from different sites that have responded to my emails and would like to meet.... some I have corresponded with as far back as February..... all of the girls I have ignored since July .... except for the one in Lutanist who I got excited about when Inna had disappeared for a couple of weeks and I thought I should look around .

hope that helps.... PS I still have girls intrested in several other cities 2 girls I have taken out before.... I just do not know where to focus my energies.... so I am trying to narrow it down and have back up plans with out being totally rude to the girls.

[Sculpto]

Ken...

Listen.. if you are using webcam sites than its either HRB or Anastasia unless there is a new one that has cropped up.  I am telling you right now you are still headed for a train wreck if you persist with ladies from these sites, even if you are in the friends only zone.  You think they can't milk you dry just as friends?  A Gentleman still pays for the lady.. and she will still "just love that purse in the window" if you get my meaning. 

First of all.. neither site is the actual owner of the agency where the girl goes to use the cam.  There is a very high probability that the same girls are on both sites.  This can be verified easily enough and I would be happy to help you do so.

Now.. more seriously.. these cam girls.. they are INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS and are for the most part being paid to chat with men and to meet with men.  They will get a % of the take.  This has been well documented and verified and is the future of the FSU Bride scam.  Do not think you are the exception, YOU AREN'T. 

Since you insist on going to Lugansk, and I have a very strong idea of which girls you are going to see there.. what I can tell you is they are going to rip you to pieces!  Listen, I know two people in Lugansk who are reliable.  Please let me help you if you insist on going there.  I don't want anything for it except to see you have a nice time and not get hustled.  And believe me.. if you go to such a place, with plans to visit the ladies from the agency I think you are planning to visit.. you are a sitting duck, especially in the vulnerable state of mind you are in!

[KenC]

Ken,

I just do not know where to focus my energies

Go there with three goals in mind:

Have fun

Meet some women

Do not fall in love (This is just the beginning of a very long journey)

With the new information that your divorce is not even final, I doubt you are emotionally ready for anything serious right now.  Best of luck to you.
KenC

[travelua2009]

There are 15+ scam agencies in the small city of Nikolaev.

can you send me a list of such agencies. my clients sometimes ask me about such things because i help them with accomodation and i would be gladly to give correct information

[Vinnvinny]

I think our Ken1958 should cut his losses and stay at home for a few months. Alternatively, go somewhere nearer home and chill out down by the beach for a week or 2.

[Vinnvinny]

can you send me a list of such agencies. my clients sometimes ask me about such things because i help them with accomodation and i would be gladly to give correct information

Try and keep up please, Muddy is on 'gardening leave'. With regards to who the scam agencies are in Nikolaev, it's all of them and they number many more than 15. (Just my opinion).

[Jooky]

Why anyone is buying this ridiculous story from someone who purposefully replaces 'been' with the name Ben, 'any' with the name Anny and is apparently filthy rich but can't spell the word 'money', is beyond me.  

If there was Anny truth to this story, this would be the last man anyone should be recommending to continue chasing young tail in Ukraine. I pity the imaginary daughter in this tale. Scott Jay, is that you?