Nice American Man wondering about his relationship with Ukraine woman

[Boethius]

No, this is not the 'very same comparison.'  It is well documented in various fields of study that since the beginning of time there are many reasons for older men to be attracted to younger women and younger women to be attracted to older men.

There are no such widespred reasons or logic for younger men to be attracted to older women.  The current stories of Demi and Ashton, Madonna and her guy, etc. are extreme abberations.

Note, I am not arguing for large age differences, but am just pointing out that this is not a symetrical situation with respect to which of the genders is older than the other.

Younger women are not generally, nor through time have been, physically attracted to older men.  It is a myth older men use to justify their attraction to younger women.

Throughout most of history, in most of the world, women did not choose their husbands.  That was done by their families.  Women who did have choices chose older men for economic security.  In young women/older man marriages, in many cases, I  don't think this has changed much.   What has changed is the choices women have; Women have the ability to support themselves independent of a man and, because of family laws, a woman who marries a wealthy man will leave with at least some part of his fortune.

The examples of Madonna and Demi Moore demonstrate the reality of the human condition (alluded to by Aloe).  Young adults are physically more attractive than their older counterparts.  That is universal.  A 23 year old stud with an unlined face, 2% body fat and a six pack is physically more appealing than a 43 year old with crow's feet.  Most 43 year old women aren't interested in the stud not because they can't compete with a younger woman, but because a 23 year old man is usually much more of a child than his 43 year old counterpart.

[Misha]

Typical boy lost in a candy factory - story to me. The general audience seem shocked everytime a story like this unfolds.

To be followed in a few years by the inevitable sequel: "My Wife Dumped Me: What Should I Do" thread  

[mies]

No, this is not the 'very same comparison.'  It is well documented in various fields of study that since the beginning of time there are many reasons for older men to be attracted to younger women and younger women to be attracted to older men.

There are no such widespred reasons or logic for younger men to be attracted to older women.  The current stories of Demi and Ashton, Madonna and her guy, etc. are extreme abberations.

Note, I am not arguing for large age differences, but am just pointing out that this is not a symetrical situation with respect to which of the genders is older than the other.

In addition to everything Boethius said - and she is 100% right

you should not be making inferences for nowadays from historical examples. Historically women used to have 10-15+ children - a child a year PLUS doing work. Hence their bodies worn out at a much faster rate than men's. Plus, many women were dying at earlier age. Now the situation is very different. On the contrary, I know many stories were younger men were attracted to older women. For many men this fascination fades as they grow older.  

[Misha]

if i understood him correctly - he already has 2 daughters. One is 2yo, and another is 13yo. Daughters are also perfectly valid children, not only boys.

IMHO - if you are serious about all this "want to have son" story, and not just rationalizing your desire to date/marry young girl, maybe good psychologist could do some help.  

I agree. I missed that post about the daughters along with the information about the viagra and condoms on the table 

[Gator]

Mies wrote,

If your younger daughter is only 2yo, and you are allowed to see her - I do not understand why don't you spend more time with your baby?

Excellent point.  

I have two fine sons from my past marriage, and I am proud of them.  Now I have a 12-yo stepdaughter whom I have known since her 5th birthday.  Little girls are precious!  Time spent with her has taken me to a new world, and certainly brings much joy.  

She is developing quite an attitude.       It is a necessity, I assume, to deal with the pricks and bastards of this world.  Successful women seem to have the same.

I have known a couple of older men who have sung the line about wanting another child and thus insisting on women of child bearing years.  In reality, all they wanted was to shag young women and shoo away the older ones.

[GQBlues]

Who is the barracuda in this situation, and who are the sardines? I'm guessing most guys who do socials would consider themselves barracudas but a good portion would be mistaken.

Pick your poison, groov. Both parties reap what they sow. If they both got what they want out of it, how is it a mistake?

While I would agree with this in general, I believe using this as a sort of justification is a dangerous and slippery slope. A year or so ago, a guy came here looking for advice on how to bring his fiancee and her child to the US on a K1. Now, the child's father might have been a true SOB, but the OP was trying to justify bribing the right people to allow the child to leave Ukraine w/out dad's consent because, of course, his fiancee's child would have more opportunities and an easier in life here.

As has been said before, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

I'm not justifying anything. Not especially other people's business as it won't make my sun shine any brighter no matter what they decide to do with their lives.

You brought up another good point in that post though groov. We all see (and jump) to assist newbies coming here asking for the best, safest and easiest way to begin their journey in search of good FSU woman to marry. That's great. Everyone seem to have good intentions. But how do anyone know for sure this particular man does not have bad intentions? Any potential control freak or abuser can post idealistic messages and get the easy road to landing an unsuspecting woman - no thanks for the help of a few good intentioned men here.

Of course, you can say you can't feel bad about it because when it comes down to it, it's their business not yours.

I agree with what JollyRat posted above regarding other people's relationship. What I am not quite sure exactly is how many that are posting against it actually had large age gap in their past relationships to be so sure other people's relationship will not work? Even if they did, how do they know for certain it won't work? People cite reasons and examples why they believe it will not work but how are those any different if I said matter of factly that every single person I know in the past between the ages of 18-25 who married their high school sweethearts, or people with 2-3 years age differences were divorced within 5 years except for 1 couple (1 out of 8). 4 of my friends that got married the past 5 years where age differences were no more than 6 years. 2 are already divorced and one is having problems.

Then there's the added volatility of marrying women outside of our culture and society. We can sum up all the anecdotes collectively and guess what, we'll see there really is NO absolutes in generalities.

I'm not justifying anything not least of which marriages or relationships with big age gaps. If any, I strongly advocate men to marry within their society if not their culture. People going to FSU looking for wives is a volatile proposition in itself - by itself. Yet people don't fret assisting other people to go right on it cheering and high-fiving them along the way.

Yes, other people feign at the site of couples with big age gaps. But guess what - people in OUR culture feign at the knowledge of men (us) having to go to Russia to look for wives. You know this is true for everyone so much that when other people ask how you (everyone) met your wives (there's a thread here for that) they sugar coat it.

Now how can that be so right?

[GQBlues]

The examples of Madonna and Demi Moore demonstrate the reality of the human condition (alluded to by Aloe).  Young adults are physically more attractive than their older counterparts.  That is universal.  A 23 year old stud with an unlined face, 2% body fat and a six pack is physically more appealing than a 43 year old with crow's feet.  Most 43 year old women aren't interested in the stud not because they can't compete with a younger woman, but because a 23 year old man is usually much more of a child than his 43 year old counterpart.

To avoid being chauvinistic, one can also say....

A 23 year old hottie with innocent lips, flat stomach and a nice breasts is physically more appealing than a 43 year old with serious camel toes.

[groovlstk]

Pick your poison, groov. Both parties reap what they sow. If they both got what they want out of it, how is it a mistake?

I'm not saying there's any mistake involved.

Of course, you can say you can't feel bad about it because when it comes down to it, it's their business not yours.

Yup, but the OP came here asking for opinions - although it seems to me that he is looking more for validation than for opinions. If he doesn't want opinions that "intrude" on his business, he should seek out his local parish priest, not RWD.

[BC]

I agree with what JollyRat posted above regarding other people's relationship. What I am not quite sure exactly is how many that are posting against it actually had large age gap in their past relationships to be so sure other people's relationship will not work? Even if they did, how do they know for certain it won't work?

Actually a decent handful IIRC.

It's sorta like a thread long ago asking whether or not you would recommend your best friend go chase a FSUW.  Quite a few Naysayers, almost all married.

It's not so much that marriages with age differences have no chance to survive, it's more about those who actively seek intergenerational relationships.  I submit that 'examples' above where things work out, i.e. my aunt, brother, niece, neighbor or a from a century ago only serves to confuse the issue.  Apples and Oranges...  If you are willing to consider this, that handful is quite representative.

This whole RW 'thing' is not the typical 'boy meets girl' environment. Instead it's often more like watching folks queue up to the cannon fodder line.

For those interested in this venture it's best to look more closely at posts you do not agree with instead of picking and choosing what you want to hear.

[Vinnvinny]

..... we had lots of fun and later I took her and her sister to Yalta for a few days...

Also I should tell you that when we met My girlfriend and her friend both came to my hotel room to change....

Just exactly how many ladies did you take to Yalta Ken or was this very early in your relationship before you went on holiday? 

[Jooky]

A 23 year old stud with an unlined face, 2% body fat and a six pack is physically more appealing than a 43 year old with crow's feet.

Makes sense, but if I ask most any woman who's their ideal sexy man, they're likely to name Brad Pitt, a 45 year old with crow's feet, before naming some 23 year old stud model.

[GQBlues]

Yup, but the OP came here asking for opinions - although it seems to me that he is looking more for validation than for opinions. If he doesn't want opinions that "intrude" on his business, he should seek out his local parish priest, not RWD.

In light of recent dark events surrounding priests, he'll likely get a high 5.

But seriously, I think the OP is gloating. IMO, he's no different than a typical middle-aged man lost in the mired sea of lost youth. He isn't looking for life but rather an extension of it. More power to him just as more power to those balding divorced middle-aged men driving around in convertible sports car in a city near you.

[Misha]

a 43 year old with serious camel toes.

Camel toes? I haven't the faintest what this is supposed to mean.

[BC]

Camel toes? I haven't the faintest what this is supposed to mean.

It's a fetish.  There is even a cameltoe.com  LOL

[Gator]

Camel toes? I haven't the faintest what this is supposed to mean.

If you do not know camel toe, for sure you do not know FUPA. 

I never noticed a relationship between age and camel toe.  Some men are hung, others are not, and age has nothing to do with it.

[Misha]

If you do not know camel toe, for sure you do not know FUPA. 

You are right, don't know that either.

[GQBlues]

You are right, don't know that either.

Whale tail?

[mies]

Makes sense, but if I ask most any woman who's their ideal sexy man, they're likely to name Brad Pitt, a 45 year old with crow's feet, before naming some 23 year old stud model.

that's because nobody knows names of male models, or remembers their faces. But Brad Pitt is familiar to everybody.
If Brad Pitt was an electrician living next door - i'm sure no woman would pay nearly as much attention to him as he's getting now. As for me - I never found him sexy or attractive. Especially now as he gets older. Not my type

[Gator]

You are right, don't know that either.

Whenever you do learn the meanings, please do not disrespect me.  I have two sons in their 20s who make it a point to keep their father informed of what's happening and what's funny, whether or not I want to know.  You will realize why neither is married. 

I am passing along the information in case you have a 20-yo son some day.

[Johnny2009]

Hi everyone!!

First post all the way from England!

Been reading this topic, and I still trying to understand "what the OP is thinking about"! The age difference not withstanding, the OP must be in some kind of "dream world" if he thinks this girl is in to him, she showed him very little affection and only kisses three times  

When I first looked at RW sites I corresponded with a 23 year old girl (I am 34), its was like dealing with a child! If I read correctly the OP is 51. I'm sorry guys but it just sounds ridiclous!

I really wish the guy the best of luck, but seriously this adventure will only lead to disappointment!

[BC]

Hi everyone!!

First post all the way from England!

Welcome from your southeastern neighbour.

Tell us a little about yourself and your venture in the intro section http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?board=41.0

Cheers!

[Jooky]

If Brad Pitt was an electrician living next door - i'm sure no woman would pay nearly as much attention to him as he's getting now.

You're probably right, but hot young women get plenty of attention whether they are famous or not.
 
How about this, I Googled sexiest men and sexiest women.

Here's a list of sexy women as chosen by men.

http://www.fhm.com/100-sexiest-2009/freida-pinto/

Almost all are in their 20s. A few are older. Lots of men do know hot models' names. Why don't women know the names of male models?

Here's a list of sexy men as chosen by women.

http://allwomenstalk.com/guess-who-the-sexiest-men-celebrities-are/

Lots of men in their 30s and 40s. A few in their 50s and a few in their 20s.

How can you explain this age discrepancy?

[Johnny2009]

Welcome from your southeastern neighbour.

Tell us a little about yourself and your venture in the intro section http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?board=41.0

Cheers!

Hi

I Will be happy to tell about my experiences so far, I will post something on that link tomorrow, I am glad to find this forum, its full of interesting opinions!

Have good day guys!

[neo]

You're probably right, but hot young women get plenty of attention whether they are famous or not.
 
How about this, I Googled sexiest men and sexiest women.

Here's a list of sexy women as chosen by men.

http://www.fhm.com/100-sexiest-2009/freida-pinto/

Almost all are in their 20s. A few are older. Lots of men do know hot models' names. Why don't women know the names of male models?

Here's a list of sexy men as chosen by women.

http://allwomenstalk.com/guess-who-the-sexiest-men-celebrities-are/

Lots of men in their 30s and 40s. A few in their 50s and a few in their 20s.

How can you explain this age discrepancy?

very simply, if you had ever done a study of what women find attractive.

Men are very obvious, we chase women based on them being good hosts to our genetics. we look for signs of health and child-bearing so pouty red lips, firm skin, big knockers, a nice ass, these are all natures calling cards of a woman who will make a good baby mother.

Women on the other hand go for men that are going to provide what they need, namely resources and protection, for them its a question of status, power, wealth, and THEN good genetics i.e good bone structure, firm shoulders, a strong jawline etc. what men and women find attractive are VERY different, women value things like character, charisma, intelligence, social status, men look for a girl who can get down on all fours and yap like a puppy.

Hence the differences, they did a survey about russians being the new germans in the annoying tourists stake, the survey commented that russian men were invariably badly dressed and had a woman 20 years their junior in tow. Its not just WM that chase young russian hotties, go into any major bar/resteraunt and some big business type will have a 20-25 year old young tarty sort on his arm.

its always been this way, older men (usually) have more power, money, status. young men are good for a role in the hey, when a woman is looking for a secure lifestyle she will go for the older monied guy, take him to the cleaners financially to secure her lifestyle, then in her 30's pick up some young muffin with firm but-tocks, once shes secured her cash then she will fulfil her carnal desires - given women peak sexually in their 40's thats when they are most likely to hunt down a stud-muffin to make them yelp, in their 20's its almost fiscal security hence the young guy/old dude thing.

So what to make of this?

if you are a old buffer, yes you can score a hottie, but its not for life, she will get what she can from you and move on to her "second stage" relationship at some point in 5-10 years.

most of the women in their early 40's are more likely to be chasing stuff muffins than grandpas, so paradoxically a 55 year old guy has a better chance to score with a 25 year old than a 45 year old, since the older woman probably figures the old boy cant satisfy her wanton lusts.

a woman past 50 is likely to settle down with any bloke her own age, her wanton lustings are through and shes more interested in companionship and someone to sit around the bungalow with than either of the above.

its all well documented. i'm just surprised it still gets so much forum debate, but that i think is down to the delusional views of old blokes who think that their 25 year old really does have some fetish for old men, as opposed to being driven by the basic instinct need to have the best stable environment for child-rearing. As long as you accept your 25 year old is likely to fly the nest as soon as shes done with you - then all well and good, if you think shes going to push you round in a wheel chair, well, theres enough $$$$ divorces between rich folks and young broke people to tell you otherwise....

[Gator]

its always been this way, older men (usually) have more power, money, status.

Was not the term Старые козёл part of the Russian vernacular long before older western men started flying to Russia in search of a young wife?  Whether it is morally right or socially right is a matter of debate, yet why debate something which really is a personal choice?  Regardless, it goes against the grain, against the wind.