Need advice from experienced sources

[Doc Rep]

I have a problem and need some advice from unbiased and knowledgeable sources. I will try to keep this long story short. I met a woman through Elena's Models. We started writing in March and I mad a visit to Rostov on Don to spend ten days with her in June. I could not have asked for a better result. Everything went great. Her mother had been writing to another American. He made his visit in July. We will call him D. The women put us in contact before he left so that I could help him and He could take so stuff from me to them. I provide help for him and the two us started to talk on a regular basis. My girl I will call her L. and I talked about his visit a couple of times. She kept saying that she just was not happy about it and could not explain it. I relayed the message to him, and he felt he had nothing to worry about. Late last month D. had turned a minor disagreement into a major blow up. Needless to say his relationship with L's mother ended badly. This brings me to my problem. Before I left Rostov, I discussed with L. about closing her profile on the website. We agreed that it could stay up because she did not check it but maybe twice a month. Her point was if something went wrong it was a lot of trouble to open it back. I had no problem with this because she did not check it at all for almost two months. After her mothers split with D., she set her mothers profile back, but at the same time she added new photos to her profile and changed the wording some. When I asked about it she said I had nothing to worry about that she had been asked to update her profile. I knew what was coming she starts to get many e.o.i. 's. Everytime I bring this up I get told that I have nothing to worry about that she does not have time for them, and I am still in good standing. Following bad advice, I had friend set up a profile with a new email address that I made as the contact info.  I sent her a e.o.i. and she responded as interested. I do like doing this it feels dishonest. And has confused me even more. I guess I am looking for any advice? I will answer any questions. Thank you. Doc Rep

[Vaughn]

Doc Rep,


  Are you and L engaged to be married?   
 

[Gator]

Doc Rep,

You had a superb 10-day visit in June.  What did each of you promise the other about a relationship?

It is almost September.  When do you plan to visit her again?

Are you sending her support money of some sort?

D and your possible MIL is an example of how something that starts off very promising can end suddenly.  Your L has seen this happen firsthand.

What L says about setting her EM profile back up is wrong.  She can easily change her profile to read, "I have met someone.  Good luck with your search."  She should know this and she is not being forthright and honest (the same as you by playing your little game).  She is not 100% committed to you. Unless both of you have agreed to an exclusive relationship, both of you have options and she is exercising them.

Starting an argument with L does you know good.  My suggestion is to be more confident.  Say that you don't like it bout you don't care because you know that you and she are ideal for each other and she could not find a better man.  Tell her she will realize this during your next meeting.  

[philb]

Now I know every situation is different but....   I had a very similar experience back in 2001.  I didn't end the relationship at the point you are at.  Instead I strung it along through another 2 visits and eventually ended the relationship. 

The girl I was seeing tried to explain things away in a similar fashion.  I thought I had accepted her explanation but in truth doubts remained.  In retrospect there were some other things I tried to ignore too.  I should have ended the relationship sooner rather than when I did.

[philb]

Just out of curiosity, was this a wovo trip?

[GQBlues]

You made 1 ten day visit and things went well.

Unless that visit caused both of you to agree that you came to a mutual decision that you will pursue a relationship exclusively, or got engaged, then I don't see why she would feel obligated only to you.

If this agreement never happened, technically you're only dating and she's free to date anyone she wants just as much as you can.

Am I missing anything in your story?

[Muddy]

Say that you don't like it bout you don't care because you know that you and she are ideal for each other and she could not find a better man.  Tell her she will realize this during your next meeting.  

What a weak advice this is   now I understand why your ex-wife found herself a boyfriend while she was married to you Gator.

Many years ago my ex-wife suggested that I get a girlfriend.  Love was gone; she already had a boyfriend.   A few years later we divorced in an amicable manner. 

[philb]

You made 1 ten day visit and things went well.

Unless that visit caused both of you to agree that you came to a mutual decision that you will pursue a relationship exclusively, or got engaged, then I don't see why she would feel obligated only to you.

If this agreement never happened, technically you're only dating and she's free to date anyone she wants just as much as you can.

Am I missing anything in your story?

A couple of things. Red flag #1  He asked her to take the profile down.  She told him no.  #2 Her stated reasons for not taking it down (Only checks it once every 2 months and that it would be to difficult to put it back up if something happened)  don't hold up.  

She is hedging her bets and or hoping something better comes along.  I just wouldn't be comfortable with that.

[GQBlues]

philb-

That's exactly what I am saying. UNLESS they agreed to be exclusive and/or got engaged, the woman is not obligated to take her profile down. Why should she? He can ask her all he wants.

If this agreement ( mutually clear understanding) never happened, then nothing she's done thus far constitute any type of red flags to me. There is NO commitment.

[Vaughn]

Unless that visit caused both of you to agree that you came to a mutual decision that you will pursue a relationship exclusively, or got engaged, then I don't see why she would feel obligated only to you.

I wholeheartedly agree with GQ's statement.

This brings me to my problem. Before I left Rostov, I discussed with L. about closing her profile on the website.

After you and she had reached a mutual agreement of exclusivity, to imply "a commitment" of sorts, right? If not,
therein lies the problem.

We agreed that it could stay up ....  (for whatever reason).

You reached an agreement there - although it may have not been the one you sought. She had her
reasons like "if something went wrong" - fair enough for me. I don't consider her saying "you have
nothing to worry about..." or "you are in good standing.." as dishonest - but a woman's way of
asking the man to read between the lines which clearly offer this advice: Mr. Rep, I really enjoyed
your visit - and hope you'll make your return trip soon. In the meantime, I choose to leave the doors
wide open for a good man who's willing to make an offer of engagement to me. In so many words.

If you really think there's a future for you with L, consider a more proactive course of winning her
heart instead of sending expressions of interest from a bogus ID. It's YOU who's confusing you,
not her. Go for it. If she's truly insincere and playing games with your heart, THAT will be apparent
quickly enough if you conduct yourself honestly.

It is almost September.  When do you plan to visit her again?

That's a crucial question. If your plans are still "up in the air" well, then so should be hers.

Vaughn




 

[philb]

I'll try and make it a bit clearer.

She really isn't into him that much or she would have taken the proflie down (or at least not been updating it and answering messages).

Most importantly she lied to him (only checks it once every 2 months)

In addition, the OP obviously doesn't trust her

For me all of these are huge red flags and I have seen way to many crash burn stories over the years when similar things were ignored.

[Gator]

What a weak advice this is  now I understand why your ex-wife found herself a boyfriend while she was married to you Gator.

Omniscient Muddy speaks again.

[Vaughn]

What a weak advice this is....   now I understand why your ex-wife

Muddy - I don't believe you and I have ever had a cross word. Tonight, though, I decided to
review your posts from the past year and a half. My advice is this: Stick to threads regarding
USPS, Meest, McDonald's, Methods of Transportation, and so forth - in these areas your
expertise is unquestioned. In matters of the heart, however, you are quite suspect with your
strange notions about how to control women - and dragging valuable contributors' names
through your "mud" in the process. You've degenerated into the classic troll despite your
efforts to be considered otherwise.

[TheBlackCat]

First let me tell you I don't have much experience with women from there... but a woman is still a woman, from here, from latin America, from Russia or from anywhere.

I suspect this woman must be very pretty. She must be used to have men drooling after her. Here I think we have a classic example of a man being an admirer and a lot more in love with her than her loving you.

Stop being so insecure and update your profile too. You MUST get over her. Do you like it when a woman begins to be clingy after you if you are not that much into her. You must show her that little game can be done by you too. You will get many unterinsting women writing to you, but you also will have many interesting women writing to you too. You must begin to look for other women.

Don't show insecurity like you've done. It is not pretty at all for a woman. They want a man with a spine. Especially those very beautiful women. You know they really are used to having men worship them. You don't want to be another one don't you?

Now I don't know you. I haven't seen you too. Are you attractive for women other than your wallet? Do you please to women? If not, then you must look for a way to improve yourself, personnally and physically. You know we all like arm candy. Women like it too.

Sometimes I look at out of shape men who want thin attractive women. God begin by losing that beer belly then you'll be more attractive and more confident inyourself. Now this doesn't mean you are out of shape. Like I just said I haven't seen you.

The fact she's still looking means she's not that into you. Then move on. I know this is not what you want to hear. Go look and and go meet other women. Write on your profile that you are going to go to Russia soon if it is what you want or can do. You'll see. You will get so many messages it will be unbelievable.

And when she'll notice this you will see it's either she will be coming back to you on her knees if she has something for you or she won't care at all. This means she's not worth nothing for you then. If she tells you about it, well you tell her SHE was the one who pushed you to do that as she seemed like not caring for you that much. Then you'll see.

But really I would focus more on finding another woman who's into me than wondering if she loves me or not. God there are so many of them out there. She's not the last pretty woman you know. Don't you think you are worth it all? Do you want to marry a woman you'll always have to keep in check? No of course.

That's what I think but of course I am not you. It shows you are very much into her. Stop it and go see what's out there. She's played enough with you.

Good luck and it would be nice to see what the women here are thinking too. This would give you another point of view.

[Mishenka]

Writing people on the internet leaves many false impressions. FSU women expecially want to see actions match words. This takes time after you meet in person. In light of her wanting to keep a profile active on EM after meeting you, shows me she is not serious about a relationship. She is entertaining other offers. You will never know to what extent.  These women have the ability to go silent and  keep family secrets for years. Honesty? Only on certain levels.  If she was serious about you, the profile would have been deleted before you made your first trip. It takes 5 minutes to update or write a new profile. Lame excuse, read the writing on the wallpaper. She's a player, don't let her toy with you.
Mishenka

[Vaughn]

Don't show insecurity like you've done.... They want a man with a spine.

BINGO !!!

She's played enough with you.

The "play" has been mutual by his own admission. Hers is far more honest. Why don't men
understand that women in the FSU just aren't likely to trash their profiles when a man
visits and they have "a great time"....  is she to blindly believe he won't return to visit
others in another city - as so many often do?

If she was serious about you, the profile would have been deleted before you made your first trip. It takes 5 minutes to update or write a new profile. Lame excuse, read the writing on the wallpaper.

You're kidding - right? She clearly (according to the OP) also mentioned "if something went wrong..." and it clearly
is going wrong when her man begins to drown in self-doubt - I mean, where's HER security ??

If they were truly making future plans at this stage, I'd see your, TheBlackCat's and Philb's rationale far more clearly.

Doc Rep ~ have you maintained exclusive communications only with her ~ if so, have you informed her of this?

Like many of us, I wish the ladies would hop in here - somehow I feel they're not so inclined to view this
lady's behavior as anything but appropriate in light of this "relationship's" infancy.



 

[JR]

1. Ask for absolute clarification as to whether or not you two are exclusive.

2. If yes, lay down the law about the profile and stick to it. (It gets removed) If it   
    doesn't you move on.

3. If no, then both she and you are free to date whoever you want.

[Mishenka]

Yes Vaughn I am serious. If you read my post in context, it makes a case for this situation. It is clear she doesn't trust the relationship at this point (6 months) and wants to keep a profile up to stay in the game. She is guarding her heart like most FSU women who are very careful. It's not realistic to expect to build trust in a long distance relationship over 6 months time with only one 10 day visit. The first thing you want to do in a relationship is begin to build trust. This isn't going to happen when she wants to keep her profile active.

[Vaughn]

Mishenka, I am with you right up until your very last sentence....

This isn't going to happen when she wants to keep her profile active.

I submit it happens quite often. During the trust-building stages of a relationship,
especially early on, it seemed natural for us to expend effort on bonding. The
resulting bond, anchored in trust, developed into love - and desire. I cannot
speak for others - but this required far more than 10 quick days of face time for us.
When we happily decided to marry, one of those items we listed, almost laughingly,
was "Oh YEAH - we have to get rid of that profile..."

To be fair, her profile remained up and active during many months when we were,
for all practical purposes, exclusive. For us, its existence was never an issue, but
an afterthought. So it all boils down to timing - some men cannot develop trust in
the shadow of a profile, others develop trust to eradicate it. I was among the latter group.

Though my experience in dating FSU women was limited, my insistence on Elvira's removing
her profile on my first visit could have prematurely destroyed our chance to realize what we
consider a very happy and secure marriage.

[BillyB]

Doc, you or any guy who makes a first trip to a lady should attempt to go exclusive with her. If she hesitates, it's time to move on.

In this case I don't think you being exclusive with her or not makes much difference. You made your first impression on a 10 day trip and at first she holds back from checking her messages but later posts new photos to better attract other men.  What person in their right mind in a relationship or trying to get hooked up with one man would post new photos to attract more of the opposite sex unless they actually want to make connections with the opposite sex?

Things are going downhill. I think you made a serious mistake to talk your lady's feelings about the mother's boyfriend to the mother's boyfriend. Her feeling towards him wasn't good and you mentioning the bad news to him and with the breakup of her mom and her boyfriend makes you the bad guy or stupid and once you've been labeled stupid, your lady will lose respect for you. She's on the hunt. You better be too. Put up some new photos of yourself.

[Rina_G]

Doc Rep

thanks for interesting theme.
I hope you got enough advises. and I would like to show you women point.
women in datong say - my searching was finish with ring on the finger.
and it's truth.
you - men - know one side of truth. we - women - know another side of truth.
I won't count how many men said me warm and hot words and after forgot to say me good bye.
it was very often for each girl.
she makes everything ruight.
you have to beleive your eyes and your ears.
remove another profile and don't check out her please.
If you'll move to marriage - everything will be OK.
Real woman remove profile in last turn
Do not offend her  suspicions.

[BillyB]

I won't count how many men said me warm and hot words and after forgot to say me good bye.

Doc is not the kind of guy who just said warm words to his lady. He visited her and after question her activity and behavior on the internet. There's no doubt in the lady's mind that Doc wants a relationship with her. She has answered with posting new photos of herself on her profile. She is not satisfied in communicating with Doc exclusively. She craves for someone else or maybe she craves attention from multiple men.

[Boethius]

Or perhaps she does not have faith that he will come back.  Perhaps she sensed he does not trust her, and, until she knows him much better, will not put all her eggs in one basket.

Her motives can second guessed until the cows come home . . .

[Rina_G]

Doc is not the kind of guy who just said warm words to his lady. He visited her and after question her activity and behavior on the internet. There's no doubt in the lady's mind that Doc wants a relationship with her. She has answered with posting new photos of herself on her profile. She is not satisfied in communicating with Doc exclusively. She craves for someone else or maybe she craves attention from multiple men.

I understood everything you wrote.
She is in search still.
But I know, how few men write to the woman if she is not present on a site by weeks.
It is not necessary to worry and unduly to dramatize a situation.
It is necessary to do serious work - acts.
Are any other bases to believe, that he was not pleasant to her?
That she has updated photos and the questionnaire tells nothing.
That she has answered the letter - on Elena's is a rule for women - to answer all letters of men.
I know, how man's questions are discussed at female forums. It begins with hopes and wishes, and comes to an end - do not answer him, he isn't your man.
I do not want that we the assumptions have increased his doubts.

[Vaughn]

BillyB,

  I recall vivdly how Elvira and I would retreat to her kitchen table and have these pre-dawn
chats that would encompass hours - amid many cups of coffee or tea. One of the things she
told me was, "For most of my life, I've experienced broken promises and disappointment..." It
was a clear signal that much work lie ahead in gaining her confidence. To demand her profile
be pulled at such an early crossroad would have been counterproductive to her needs, and
in light of her deadpan sincerity, quite selfish and insecure of me.

  It took more courage, borne of trust, than she had ever known when the time came for her
to address the task of giving notice at the school where she taught.

  If Doc Rep shows up here and swears they had an agreement of exclusivity, I'll eat my words.
So far, though, my educated guess is he's waiting for L to throw herself at him before he offers
his hand - the proverbial cart before the horse IMHO.

Boethius, I think you pretty much nailed it. I've grown to understand the ladies' side of the
international dating minefield - most sincere ladies are very skeptical, and understandably so.
We have well-meaning men, making premature demands without offering anything but the hollow
promise of a future, mixed in with countless players carefully checking their train timetable so as
not to miss out on the next potential broken heart down the tracks.

Earlier in this thread I encouraged Doc Rep to pursue this lady with the honest approach; hopefully
he will - thereby determining if she's simply another player, or a lady who responds to something
more hopeful than a fleeting "See you again sometime..."