I'm new here

[tfcrew]

Actually, I hate to see djgoth abandon the forum he seemed to enjoy initially.

Now gothism seems to embrace agnosticism..The view that absolute truth or ultimate certainty is unattainable, especially regarding knowledge not based on experience or perceivable phenomena.
 Hence the depression [IMO].

 He did leave his facepage link in the original post.
A quote from a link there..
 
  

Whenever luck drops needles and pins along your path in life, don't  stay away instead pick them up and collect them. they might hurt you but they'll make you stronger...

Let us wish someone good fortune...

Karl

[GoodOlBoy]

GOB
Could you imagine a RW as a Marine DI? I wouldn't know whether to be scared or excited!! 

Hey ACB, I hear you!

Can honestly say I never say a women (Russian or anything close to one) at PI (the land that G*d forgot :evil:)........except at the parade field on graduation day!


GOB  Oorah!

[Sculpto]

why are you still posting off topic garbage in this thread GOB... haven't you already caused enough damage?

[Gator]

why are you still posting off topic garbage in this thread GOB... haven't you already caused enough damage?

Are you the content police?  He and Bear are just having some fun based on a comment made by Dan.  Why would it be damaging?  Why would you say something to someone at RWD that you would never say to his face?  If you challenged GOB, I imagine he could compress in 13 seconds the entirety of the 13-week PI experience. 

[OlgaH]

I think this topic has demonstrated some of the best of what RWD is all about.

- Dan

The topic also demonstrated how some people can be intolerant, heartless, arrogant and ignorant.

I posted  the link to article about three teens, who committed suicide being bulled and humiliated by their classmates, for purpose with a question "where does children cruelty comes from?" It comes from society where they are raised, it comes from adults...

"The Black Feeling of Hopelessness in Bipolar Depression
The word depression is the hindering of a person’s moods, marked by the different levels of their feelings of loneliness, sadness, disappointment, hopelessness, guilt and self-doubt.

Emotional insults, such as rejection, public humiliation or shame, may be experienced as painful enough by some people to push them towards suicide"
http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=13738&cn=9

Mark suffering from bipolar disorder for long time as he said  heard probably many times different kind of offensive epithets towards him. In his 39 he is still alive collecting all that needles that hurt. He has learned how to turn it into something useful that make him stronger.  If he being deeply vexed says "That's why I hate people" it is better for him to say those words and go away than let those people who give him a label of social misfit and miserable persona to push him to very edge.

Are some people who consider themselves to be so normal, so reasonable, so intelligent lack of normality, reasonableness and intelligence to give their advice considering the circumstances and without insulting and demonstrating arrogance?

[Admin]

The topic also demonstrated how some people can be intolerant, heartless, arrogant and ignorant.

I posted  the link to article about three teens, who committed suicide being bulled and humiliated by their classmates, for purpose with a question "where does children cruelty comes from?" It comes from society where they are raised, it comes from adults...

"The Black Feeling of Hopelessness in Bipolar Depression
The word depression is the hindering of a person’s moods, marked by the different levels of their feelings of loneliness, sadness, disappointment, hopelessness, guilt and self-doubt.

Emotional insults, such as rejection, public humiliation or shame, may be experienced as painful enough by some people to push them towards suicide"
http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=13738&cn=9

Mark suffering from bipolar disorder for long time as he said  heard probably many times different kind of offensive epithets towards him. In his 39 he is still alive collecting all that needles that hurt. He has learned how to turn it into something useful that make him stronger.  If he being deeply vexed says "That's why I hate people" it is better for him to say those words and go away than let those people who give him a label of social misfit and miserable persona to push him to very edge.

Are some people who consider themselves to be so normal, so reasonable, so intelligent lack of normality, reasonableness and intelligence to give their advice considering the circumstances and without insulting and demonstrating arrogance?

Olga,

You are, of course, welcome to view it from whatever perspective you wish.

A large part of the problem for those who view the world from a cynical 'bent' is - they later subconsciously work to fulfill their 'darker' worldview.

I choose to see what I wrote upthread, and I believe it is a more balanced (and healthy) view of the events witnessed in this topic.

I see that dj has found a new "Home" elsewhere - and we wish him well.

GOB - my Dad was a DI in the Corps - at the tail end of WWII and after serving a long tour in the Asian theatre. Somehow, BF never did quite fit my 'mold' of a DI - though I'll bet she would look PHENOMENAL in Dress Blues.

- Dan

[OlgaH]

Olga,

I choose to see what I wrote upthread, and I believe it is a more balanced (and healthy) view of the events witnessed in this topic.

- Dan

Dan, I have nothing against your view I just added what also took place in the topic. Most likely you have read articles  about tragic consequences of public humiliation and insults. RWD also has Guidelines for Civil Discourse. http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=7223.0 : "Discuss policies, issues and ideas, not people - and especially not individual RWD members. Use civil and helpful, not hurtful language (such as name-calling)"  

[Sculpto]

Are you the content police?  He and Bear are just having some fun based on a comment made by Dan.  Why would it be damaging?  Why would you say something to someone at RWD that you would never say to his face?  If you challenged GOB, I imagine he could compress in 13 seconds the entirety of the 13-week PI experience. 

Gator.. GOB is the one who equated gothman to a pedofile.  I believe i made a formal complaint which has been ignored.  His latest post is off topic.  thats it, nothing more.  And for the record, I would have no problem saying to GOBs face what I think of him.

[Admin]

Gator.. GOB is the one who equated gothman to a pedofile.  I believe i made a formal complaint which has been ignored.  His latest post is off topic.  thats it, nothing more.  And for the record, I would have no problem saying to GOBs face what I think of him.

Nothing was "ignored."

If you have an 'issue' with GOB, you are encouraged to take it up with him in PM's, or we can run it through CTA, if you prefer.

- Dan

[Gator]

Gator.. GOB is the one who equated gothman to a pedofile.

 

I recall that post, and it could be interpreted that way.  I interpreted it another way, however.
 

And for the record, I would have no problem saying to GOBs face what I think of him.

No problem?  My money is on GOB.

[Blues Fairy]

Mark suffering from bipolar disorder for long time as he said  heard probably many times different kind of offensive epithets towards him.  If he being deeply vexed says "That's why I hate people" it is better for him to say those words and go away than let those people who give him a label of social misfit and miserable persona to push him to very edge.

Are some people who consider themselves to be so normal, so reasonable, so intelligent lack of normality, reasonableness and intelligence to give their advice considering the circumstances and without insulting and demonstrating arrogance?

Olga, while hell-bent on defending Gothman's wounded ego in this thread, you are completely missing the broader point.  He came here to discuss his potential relationship, and that by definition consists of two people.  For all your bookish (or should I say wikish? ) learnedness, I think you have no f***ing idea what it means for a woman to be brought to a foreign country by a man and then see him slide into one of his depressive episodes two weeks later; being absolutely dependent on him and having no power to yank him out of his darkness.  Unless this girl is a very, very stable and optimistic type with a penchant for therapeutic conversation, she's going to drown with him as sure as the sunset.  I've been though this and I know what I'm talking about.  As I've pointed out in one of my earlier posts, this is NOT all about him, but clearly he is not willing to see this simple point - nor are you.  Speaking of ignorance and arrogance.  

P.S. Your question about the teens and what drives them to suicide was completely irrelevant.  Gothman is no teen.  He is a grown man and does not need to be mothered.  If you wish to mother him, do so at your own expense; but don't expect others to coddle him likewise.  He has lived in this world for 39 years and must know his limits: if he knows himself to be driven to suicidal thoughts by the words of adults, he should steer clear of forums outside of his Goth community. 

[OlgaH]

...  what it means for a woman to be brought to a foreign country by a man and then see him slide into one of his depressive episodes two weeks later; being absolutely dependent on him and having no power to yank him out of his darkness.  Unless this girl is a very, very stable and optimistic type with a penchant for therapeutic conversation, she's going to drown with him as sure as the sunset. 

Leave it for the girl to think and decide. They even did not meet each other face to face.

I've been though this and I know what I'm talking about. 

It is about how you are talking. I don't know where you have been but I already feel sorry for a person who you wanted to help.

You ask people on the board not to use insults towards you but you are very fast to use insults towards others.

[Sculpto]

I recall that post, and it could be interpreted that way.  I interpreted it another way, however.
 

Well Gator.. you are a nice guy and give everyone the benefit of the doubt.  I know Mark didn't take it the nice way, nor did I and a lot of others.  And i find it an ongoing disgrace that such a comment was allowed to go without a retraction or an apology.

[Jooky]

Blues,

Having experience with depressed bipolar people or people who resist 'mainstream' authority, do you think your comments and attitude towards Gothman in this thread would serve to dissuade him from pursuing this girl in Ukraine?

It's funny, from what I see, the only person here who's taken real steps to make Gothman reconsider his trip to Ukraine is 2012, and he's being accused of 'misleading the newbie'.

[LEGAL]

Well Gator.. you are a nice guy and give everyone the benefit of the doubt.  I know Mark didn't take it the nice way, nor did I and a lot of others.  And i find it an ongoing disgrace that such a comment was allowed to go without a retraction or an apology.

2012isFiction  I agree 100% Gator I am Dissapointed.
 Just look at the class act BF. IMHO Poorly educated and NO CLASS!

[Blues Fairy]

Having experience with depressed bipolar people or people who resist 'mainstream' authority, do you think your comments and attitude towards Gothman in this thread would serve to dissuade him from pursuing this girl in Ukraine?

 

I have experience with depressed people, but not with unreasonable people.  Even a depressed person, unless he is a self-absorbed jerk, may be considerate of other people and able to figure out that his behavior is hurting them.  The self-absorbed behavior that the OP has demonstrated did not appear to be the result of depression.  I think it's inherent to him.  Therefore, I admit that my comments were probably completely useless - he is simply unable to see the point.

[Admin]

2012isFiction  I agree 100% Gator I am Dissapointed.
 Just look at the class act BF. IMHO Poorly educated and NO CLASS!

There is no way on God's green earth that ANYONE could read ANYTHING that Blues Fairy has written here at RWD and draw the conclusion that she is "poorly educated and no class."

You may not like what she writes - she may be more 'blunt' than some thin-skinned people can handle - but "poorly educated"?!? No way, no how.

She exudes "CLASS" in her entire history and participation here.

Not sure what you have been reading, but I sure do not see your POV here.

- Dan

[OlgaH]

For all your bookish (or should I say wikish? ) learnedness...

Bookish would be more correct. You also can try to read some, for example you can start with book and articles on Bipolar Disorder 

 

I have experience with depressed people, but not with unreasonable people.

Sorry Blues Fairy, but your useless comments showed the opposite of your experience with depressed people more over with people who has bipolar disorder. Have you talked to Mark?

[LEGAL]

There is no way on God's green earth that ANYONE could read ANYTHING that Blues Fairy has written here at RWD and draw the conclusion that she is "poorly educated and no class."

You may not like what she writes - she may be more 'blunt' than some thin-skinned people can handle - but "poorly educated"?!? No way, no how.

She exudes "CLASS" in her entire history and participation here.

Not sure what you have been reading, but I sure do not see your POV here.

- Dan

By Blues Fairy  

Everyone deserves to be ridiculed.  :evil:

[Admin]

By Blues Fairy   

Yep - written with just the proper touch of sarcasm (and appropriate 'smiley') to make her point WITH CLASS and intelligence.

Look - there is NO malevolence in what BF has written. I have witnessed her, on numerous occasions and based on her keen sense of observation, select very innocuous seeming comments from a post and absolutely 'nail it' with her analysis. I am, admittedly, an unabashed admirer of BF. I recognize, as she certainly does, that she is fallible (as all of us), but those conclusions drawn earlier about "poor education" and "no class" are just so far out in left field, I felt compelled to respond.

- Dan

[Jooky]

Do you have experience with diagnosed bipolar people on serious medications? It's different than simply being depressed. It's pointless to tell someone already in therapy and taking meds to 'snap of out it' or 'get some professional help'.

You're worried about this girl in Ukraine coming to the US and then having to deal with Gothman's depression. Seriously, what's the likelihood of that happening?

Most likely this girl isn't for real. If she is, then she's well aware of Gothman's condition and behaviour and still wants to meet him. The choice is hers. If you (and some of the others here) really wanted Gothman to drop his chase, your approach is way off.

I'm fine with 'tough love'. I think it's rarely useful for the person being 'clue batted'. Nobody likes to be put on the defensive. But it can be useful for other readers in similar situations, who don't feel the personal brunt of the attack.

In this case, what other readers will be in this same position? Probably none. So if the goal here is to either help Gothman or protect this girl most of you here have taken the wrong approach. Acting with authority over someone who's built a lifestyle resisting it just doesn't work. It only pushes that person further to take the path you don't want them to take. Don't you people know this?  

[Faux Pas]

"Soccer mom" is a direct insult to your intelligence, but don't expect anyone to come to your defense unless you threaten to mix a hemlock cocktail as a result 

A direct insult to her intelligence would be arrows shot in the dark. She is as formidable as any member I have ever seen on this or any forum thus, no need for anyone in her defense. It could've happened but I have never seen BF not be on the mark 

[Blues Fairy]

If you (and some of the others here) really wanted Gothman to drop his chase, your approach is way off.

I did actually try to describe the horrors of the K1 visa journey hoping it would scare him.    But apparently he doesn't listen to people with any kind of relevant experience, unless they are willing to uphold his fantasy. 

Look, we are not therapists here; this is not the purpose of RWD.  We share experience and ideas; if the person is unwilling to hear them and hell-bent on his road to a train wreck, he gets a cluebat and a bonne route, and a fair share of sarcasm.  Whatever.  Why should I "seriously want him to drop the chase"?  I delivered the message I wanted to deliver and I did it in the manner I thought appropriate - seeing that the guy behaved like a poser using his diagnosis to guilt-trip his opponents.  I think those who take him so very seriously just fail to recognize this - for lack of English comprehension or for other reasons.

[krimster]

Depression can be addicting, the definition of which is "to give yourself over to some other thing", people who are addicted make lousy spouses or parents.  Make a decision about your future.  Choose not to struggle, and live with your addiction, give in to it, let it tell you how to dress and behave, or instead choose to struggle and overcome and give yourself instead to those whom you love, the choice is one or the other...

This conflict is where you are now ,unable to resolve it, you just remain where you have always been, instead of moving forward through the seasons of your life, you remain where you began, a child.

The clock is ticking, the spring slowly unwinds, the future awaits an act of creation, of courage, or of no action, regret, retaining the  familiar, comforting dreams of fantasies

Each man must at some time become a warrior, even if the enemy is something inside himself.  

The truth is always on the side of that which is the most difficult.

[Sculpto]

hell-bent on his road to a train wreck,  

How do you know it will be a train wreck?

Blues.. two weekends ago I had a visit from a guy I hadn't seen since high school.  I could say we were friends.. but we weren't really.. we hung out sometimes.  He was a really depressed guy.. smart enough.. but easily more depressed than Mark.  I hadn't heard from him literally since graduation until he added me on facebook.  

His story is basically that he graduated high school.. gained 175 pounds to end up over 300 and remained a virgin until he met his now wife.  She is an American woman.. she demanded he lose the weight.. he did it.. she demanded he get an education and a better job, he did it.. he was working as the audio visual tech at the jr. highschool we went to with no higher education at all.. and so on.. basically she demanded he get his act together and over a two year online courtship he did as she demanded.

They have been married 12 years now.  he isn't depressed, has a great hi tech job, has traveled with his wife all over the world and has become from a total train wreck a rather well adjusted and decent guy.  he tells me his wife was just as messed up as he was.  She made him her project and vice versa and the net result is one of the most solid and happy couples I have ever met.

If Mark and Alina are destined to be together why do you or anyone else have the right to bash them for not fitting into your small viewport on reality?  If you really wanted to help him instead of projecting YOUR narrow value system on HIM you would have taken a much different approach.  But, I think you just like trying to prove you are better than everyone else.. princess.